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    Russian Civil Aviation: News #3

    Rodion_Romanovic
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Tue Jan 29, 2019 2:21 pm

    The Tu-204 was also available in a cargo version. It could at least replace the 737 cargo used in Russia.

    Volga-Dnepr subsidiary Atran Airlines operates three B737-400SFs...

    As far as the production rate, it can be increased if there are sufficient order to justify the investment on a new production line.

    In addition it could be sold abroad to countries that are not best pals with the USA, e.g. Venezuela, directly in exchange with oil or gold, if the coup does not succeed.
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    Post  Austin Tue Jan 29, 2019 2:31 pm

    Russian Government needs to subsidise the airlines operating these Russian aircraft atleast in Russia and CIS country. 

    Else it is difficult to sell Tu-204 types to Airlines or even IL-96 because Boeing can bring in lot of muscle power and incentives to buy their aircraft.

    No doubt technically these aircrafts are good and safety has been as good or better than western counterparts but thats just one part of the story.   If Russia needs to sell its aircraft locally or abroad then it needs to come with good commercial deal and also look at multiple hubs for post buy Support , Spares and Maintenance.


    Spending few millions wont help in this billion dollar industry to build your case or the fleet
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Tue Jan 29, 2019 2:52 pm

    Austin wrote:(...) If Russia needs to sell its aircraft locally or abroad then it needs to come with good commercial deal and also look at multiple hubs for post buy Support , Spares and Maintenance.

    Totally agree. Aftermarket support has been the main problem also for the ssj100.
    In addition western manufacturers make more money on aftermarket support and maintenance contracts than in the sales of engines and aircrafts (often sold at a loss).

    On a certain point of view, there is a positive side in Aeroflot having experience operating western aircrafts.
    They can feedback this experience to Russian manufacturers.
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:58 pm

    https://aviation21.ru/v-pravitelstve-vseryoz-zadumali-ustranit-duopoliyu-a-i-b/


    In the 737/a320 segment the Russian market is about 850 aircrafts.

    At full capacity, Irkutsk will be able to produce between 70 and 100 aircrafts per year

    aviation21.ru wrote:In Russian civil aviation, airlines operate aircraft like the B737 and A320 / 321 aircraft in the segment of medium-haul narrow-body aircraft. In the autumn of 2018, the Red Wings of the last of the Russian airlines refused to use domestic Tu-204 aircraft. The company expects the start of deliveries of new Russian airliners MS-21, which will begin in 2020.

    MS-21 is made in Irkutsk, where the aircraft plant of the Irkut corporation, after reaching full capacity, will be able to produce up to 70 MS-21 airplanes per year, but according to Deputy Prime Minister Yuri Borisov, it is possible to increase the production of these aircraft and up to 100 units.

    Obviously, under the conditions of continuing sanctions pressure and unpredictability of western "partners", the country's leadership is interested in squeezing foreign aircraft from the Russian market, and first of all it concerns the most common types of aircraft that represent the Airbus and Boeing duopoly.

    "In September 2018, the United States imposed new restrictions on trade with Russian companies, including in order to exert pressure on the MS-21 program, in particular, with the Russian company Aerocomposite, which develops and manufactures the so-called black wing, - said Yury Borisov. - The Ministry of Industry and Trade together with PJSC UAC developed a plan of specific measures to replace foreign components and materials used in this aircraft with Russian ones. As a result of these measures, we hope , By 2022 the level of localization will be 97% That is, depending on imports of this aircraft have virtually no ", -. The Vice Premier reported on January 28 at a meeting with Dmitry Medvedev, according to the Cabinet's website.

    According to Yury Borisov, according to various estimates, the Russian market for aircraft such as MS-21-300, B737, A320 / 321 is about 850 cars.

    "As you know, the business plan at the peak provides for the creation of up to 70 aircraft. But I think that this figure can be higher. My colleagues and I from the Ministry of Industry and Trade consider the possibility, relying even only on the domestic market, for the purpose of domination, there, where we have Boeings and Airbus flying today, we can replace them as quickly as possible. You can reach a volume of about 100 airplanes per year. Only by relying on an internal need, ”said Borisov.

    On the same day, Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev tweeted that in 2019 about 1.6 billion rubles were allocated for the MS-21 program:
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    Post  Austin Thu Jan 31, 2019 12:12 am

    Sukhoi SuperJet 100 PFD operation. Landing in Miami.


    Dual camera view of the Primary Flight Display (PFD) operation and pilots view. Landing in Miami International Airport (KMIA/MIA) runway 12. On board a Sukhoi Superjet 100 Russian aircraft.
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    Post  Austin Thu Jan 31, 2019 12:12 am

    Sukhoi SuperJet 100 PFD operation. Landing in Miami.


    Dual camera view of the Primary Flight Display (PFD) operation and pilots view. Landing in Miami International Airport (KMIA/MIA) runway 12. On board a Sukhoi Superjet 100 Russian aircraft.
    dino00
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    Post  dino00 Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:41 pm

    Civilian supersonic aircraft can be designed by 2026

    *** Creation and testing of the demonstrator is scheduled for 2020-2022
    *** There is no suitable power plant in Russia yet, the Tu-160 engine does not meet the requirements of civil aviation

    Moscow. January 31st. INTERFAX-AVN - The design of a supersonic civilian aircraft is expected in the years 2022-2026, Denis Manturov, the Minister of Industry and Trade of the Russian Federation, told Interfax.
    "The next stage in 2020-2022 should be the preliminary development of technical specifications for the demonstrator of the technology of a supersonic passenger aircraft, the creation of such a demonstrator and carrying out field studies with its help, aimed at improving the aerodynamic characteristics and increasing the weight efficiency," said D. Mantur.
    He stated that from 2022 to 2026, a draft, and then a detailed design of a new supersonic aircraft could be started - the UAC would be involved in these works with the involvement of the design bureaus and institutes of the aviation industry within its structure.
    The head of the Ministry of Industry and Trade noted that in Russia there is no necessary power plant for creating such an aircraft - the mass-produced NK-32 (engine of the strategic missile carrier Tu-160, - IF) cannot meet the modern requirements of civilian operators.
    "The technical parameters of the project to create a supersonic passenger aircraft, including the appearance of a promising engine, can be calculated based on the results of the work currently being carried out by TsAGI," said D. Manturov.
    According to the minister, there is still a lot of work to be done in forming a package of regulatory documentation in order to adjust the conformity assessment processes for supersonic civil aircraft.
    The press service of the ministry reminded that at present the contract between the Ministry of Industry and Trade and TsAGI is conducting research aimed at creating a demonstrator of a supersonic civilian aircraft. These studies are carried out by experts from leading scientific organizations of the country: TsAGI, MAI, CIAM, GosNII GA, as well as the Sukhoi Civil Aircraft and LII Gromov companies involved in the UAC.
    "The cost of these works in the period from 2017 to 2019 is 1.37 billion rubles," the ministry said.
    Research work is also aimed at "developing and improving the methodology for building layouts and evaluating the aerodynamic, flight-technical and environmental characteristics of supersonic civil aircraft with a high level of fuel efficiency, flight safety, low sound impact and noise during takeoff and landing."

    On Monday, a solemn meeting was held at the Tupolev company dedicated to the 50th anniversary of the first flight of the Tu-144, a Soviet supersonic passenger aircraft. At the event, which was attended by the deputy head of the Ministry of Industry and Trade of the Russian Federation Oleg Bocharov, UAC President Yuri Slusar and Tupolev CEO Alexander Konyukhov, the prospects for creating a new supersonic civilian aircraft in Russia were discussed.
    “Tupolev has a huge number of tasks - a supersonic aircraft of a new generation, definitely to be!”, Said O. Bocharov.
    The head of Tupolev noted that in the world "there is a certain renaissance of interest in supersonic passenger aircraft." “A sufficient number of American and European firms are engaged in developments in the field of supersonic passenger aircraft, and they are building demonstrators. We have also embarked on this path: we have made calculations, engineering notes have been released, and we will gradually move in this direction too,” said A. Konyukhov.

    More
    http://www.militarynews.ru/story.asp?rid=1&nid=500778
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    Post  Firebird Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:49 pm

    dino00 wrote:Civilian supersonic aircraft can be designed by 2026

       
    http://www.militarynews.ru/story.asp?rid=1&nid=500778

    This is interesting. But sounds like its a fair way off.
    I wonder what sort of numbers they are planning. What sort of range, client base, and routes.
    I suppose airframe durability and engine work are a big job. The Tu-160 doesn't cruise at Mach 2.3 all flight, so its a little different. I also wonder whether it will be a big 200 or 300 seater. Or a smaller "all first class" type design.
    Tupolev had some amazing designs with really big capacities in the past eg 300 seaters. And ofcourse "spaceplanes".

    I was thinking a couple of days ago that Russia should build some "flagship planes" in low numbers. For instance a Tu160 type plane for supersonic passengers. And a stretched double decker eg a variant on the Slon (An124 replacement) or the Il 96 to compete with the A380, complete with onboard lounges etc. Such planes might have limited demand, but they can still profit and are invaluable in developing the identity of Aeroflot, Russian tech and Russia eg as a stopover destination. A350 and Boein 777 might be price competitive but they hardly make an occasion out of flying.
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    Post  GarryB Fri Feb 01, 2019 6:57 am

    Actually fitting the Tu-144 with the NK-32 engine of the Tu-160 actually made it a rather more capable and efficient aircraft... the US even hired it for testing as they had no real experience with supersonic civilian airliners.

    The obvious problem is that the west has no supersonic civilian airliners any more so they could simply ban supersonic flight over their airspace... which seriously limits the usefulness of supersonic civilian airliners... the US did it to Concord out of spite because the US equivalent was a failure and didn't enter service.

    A Russian plane would simply be banned because of noise or pressure damage to frog sancturies or some such rubbish... making all the effort pointless except for internal flights in Russia...
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Fri Feb 01, 2019 7:10 am

    I once saw a Concord take off from NYJFK in 1988, & it was very noisy, even from Brighton Beach, a few miles away.
    The US isn't the only destination.
    They could be used to fly to W. Europe, Canada, S. America/Africa, ME, W/E/SE Asia, Australia/NZ, & French Polynesia. Russian businessmen r busy on all continents, except Antactida, & go on vacations there too.
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Fri Feb 01, 2019 7:21 am

    The localization of the production of the MS-21 by 2022 will be 97%

    https://ria.ru/20190128/1550017130.html




    Tsavo Lion wrote:I once saw a Concord take off from NYJFK in 1988, & it was very noisy, even from Brighton Beach, a few miles away.
    The US isn't the only destination.
    They could be used to fly to W. Europe, Canada, S. America/Africa, ME, W/E/SE Asia, Australia/NZ, & French Polynesia. Russian businessmen r busy on all continents, except Antactida, & go on vacations there too.

    It unlikely will be for Russian clients only, too small market.
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    Post  Austin Sat Feb 02, 2019 1:02 am

    On the localization of L-410 and L-610 in Russia and the launch of the IL-114-300 series

    https://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/116706/
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    Post  GarryB Sat Feb 02, 2019 7:12 am

    I once saw a Concord take off from NYJFK in 1988, & it was very noisy, even from Brighton Beach, a few miles away.
    The US isn't the only destination.
    They could be used to fly to W. Europe, Canada, S. America/Africa, ME, W/E/SE Asia, Australia/NZ, & French Polynesia. Russian businessmen r busy on all continents, except Antactida, & go on vacations there too.

    I rather doubt Europe will buy any, so I rather doubt they would relax their strict noise rules for a Russian plane to operate in their airspace, and don't expect any different treatment from any "western" country... ie canada, NZ, Australia, etc etc and it wont have the range for direct flights from Russia to South America or Africa...
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    Post  Hole Sat Feb 02, 2019 4:59 pm

    But China and India, by the way the largest markets for airplanes in the next decades.
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    Post  Hole Tue Feb 05, 2019 4:05 am

    MS-21-300 No. 4

    Russian Civil Aviation: News #3 - Page 8 24474510
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:00 am

    Hole wrote:But China and India, by the way the largest markets for airplanes in the next decades.

    only 40% of world's population and 6% nd 8% of annual GDP growth? meh
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    Post  GarryB Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:19 pm

    But China and India, by the way the largest markets for airplanes in the next decades.

    But from their perspective such an aircraft would be ideal to fly across the Pacific or to Europe, but both destinations have banned the aircraft.

    For domestic flights in Russia it makes sense because of the shear size of the country, but for China or India by the time the aircraft gets up to cruise speed it will be time to slow down and land.

    As the world becomes multipolar then China and India and Russia and various countries in Asia will wield more power to force the west to accept competition... but they really need a good reason though... I mean China is hardly going to twist arms so it can use a Russian aircraft in US airspace... if it was a joint Chinese/Russian aircraft then the Chinese government might put on the table access for their aircraft in return for US airlines access to the Chinese market for example...
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Tue Feb 05, 2019 4:22 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    But China and India, by the way the largest markets for airplanes in the next decades.

    But from their perspective such an aircraft would be ideal to fly across the Pacific or to Europe, but both destinations have banned the aircraft.

    you men Concorde? due to noise. New supersonic jets will be cheaper BTW Boeing and Airbutt rent working on own versions?


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    Post  Austin Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:51 pm

    [ltr]Moscow Commits To Reviving Cubana Fleet[/ltr]
    https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/air-transport/2019-02-04/moscow-commits-reviving-cubana-fleet


    [ltr]The Kremlin has agreed to restore the airworthiness of Cubana’s fleet of Russian and Ukrainian jets and open a local maintenance and repair center to support the Cuban flag carrier. The sides signed the agreement during an official visit to Havana by Yuri Borisov, the vice premier responsible for Russia’s military-industrial complex. “We have found a proper way out of the [difficult] situation that would see the fleet of the Cuban carriers to be restored into a flightworthy condition,” he proclaimed.[/ltr]
    [ltr]Before the signing, Russian specialists assessed the condition of five Ilyushin Il-96-300s, three Tupolev Tu-204s, and six Antonov An-158s supplied to Cubana between 2005 and 2015. A comprehensive plan to put them back into operation specifies the amount of work to be done and the spare parts needed. It also contains a list of technical agreements and contracts meant to set the process in motion. Moscow provides the bulk of funding under Cuba‘s sovereign guarantees.[/ltr]
    [ltr]A key attraction to establishing a local MRO center to perform the bulk of work centers on cutting costs through inexpensive Cuban labor. Meanwhile, Moscow and Havana agreed on a plan to increase efficiency within Cuba’s infrastructure through 2030.[/ltr]
    [ltr]Early this century, Cubana instituted a major fleet renewal and opened many new routes into Europe and Latin America using the freshly supplied Russian jets. Over the past five years, however, the carrier’s financial burdens mounted, resulting in cash shortages. Cubana ran into difficult times as a result of the political and economic difficulties in Russia and Venezuela, the two cash cows upon which the carrier relied for its expansion. The airline has struggled to meet rental obligations for jets and repay credits taken earlier to renew ground infrastructure amid declining revenues following the May 2018 crash of a Boeing 737-200 it leased from Global Air, resulting in 112 deaths.[/ltr]
    [ltr]As of early last year, most of the carriers’ widebody and narrowbody jets await C-checks, which Moscow has agreed to finance. Separately, all six of its Antonov An-158s regional jets have sit grounded due to technical failures and disagreements between the Russian lessor IFC and the manufacturer and key vendors in Ukraine as a result of the recent chill in political relations between Moscow and Kiev.[/ltr]
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    Post  Austin Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:52 pm

    This is quite good news 5 IL-96 operated by Cuba Airlines plus Tu-204 and An-156 

    Hope they can sell more IL-96-400M and later MS-21
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    Post  Austin Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:59 pm

    Sukhoi SuperJet: from Russia, with hope

    https://centreforaviation.com/analysis/reports/sukhoi-superjet-from-russia-with-hope-422888
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    Post  Austin Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:43 am

    Rare Cubana Ilyushin IL-96 take off from Madrid


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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Wed Feb 06, 2019 7:46 am

    Replacing the "corncob": TVS-2DTS aircraft outlined prospects...

    According to Trutnev, in the near future there will be a discussion of the possibility of creating and launching Russian airlines Baikal on routes. Negotiations will be held with the heads of the Far Eastern subjects of Russia. If enterprises are able to provide an adequate level of transportation over medium distances, then the project will have every chance of realization
    ...
    Источник: https://politexpert.net/140216-zamena-kukuruznika-samoletu-tvs-2dts-oboznachili-perspektivy


    I hope Baikal will materialize. For short distances, rough terrain, rudimentary airfields the perfect machine.




    Austin wrote:[ltr]Moscow Commits To Reviving Cubana Fleet[/ltr]

    That definitely would make sense. Especially that Cuba is friendly country, resilient to Us pressure (smart political class, not so careless about budget s in in Venezuela) . 100km form US coast russia russia russia


    BTW I'd say Ms-21 AND Il-400.

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    Post  GarryB Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:24 pm

    you men Concorde? due to noise. New supersonic jets will be cheaper BTW Boeing and Airbutt rent working on own versions?

    When Boeing and Concord were being developed everything was fine... when Concord went into production and Boeing came up with a big fat goose egg the US banned commercial supersonic flight over land in the US... so instead of taking Americans from one side of America to the other and back fast... it was limited to basically crossing the Atlantic ocean and the Pacific ocean... which greatly reduced its appeal to many airlines...

    If Boeing had succeeded then it is likely the laws on supersonic flight over land in the US would never have been passed and Boeings and Concords would likely have been sold in reasonable numbers...

    Separately, all six of its Antonov An-158s regional jets have sit grounded due to technical failures and disagreements between the Russian lessor IFC and the manufacturer and key vendors in Ukraine as a result of the recent chill in political relations between Moscow and Kiev

    Wonder what will happen with those Ukrainian planes?

    I would suggest replacing them with Russian alternatives and selling them off to some country with better relations with the Ukraine...

    Or scrapping them and denying them the revenue of supporting the new owners operation of the aircraft...

    BTW I'd say Ms-21 AND Il-400.

    Not to mention Topols... Twisted Evil

    Would be good to see a lot of Baikals built and used... but they need a Russian engine and a Russian propeller and Kret needs to supply all the avionics and systems so it is all Russian...
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    Post  higurashihougi Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:33 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    you men Concorde? due to noise. New supersonic jets will be cheaper BTW Boeing and Airbutt rent working on own versions?

    When Boeing and Concord were being developed everything was fine... when Concord went into production and Boeing came up with a big fat goose egg the US banned commercial supersonic flight over land in the US... so instead of taking Americans from one side of America to the other and back fast... it was limited to basically crossing the Atlantic ocean and the Pacific ocean... which greatly reduced its appeal to many airlines...

    If Boeing had succeeded then it is likely the laws on supersonic flight over land in the US would never have been passed and Boeings and Concords would likely have been sold in reasonable numbers...

    The failure of Concorde, I think, it's not about the noise, but aerodynamic instability.

    The catastrophic accident of Concorde nailed it fate and shown the disadvantage of triangular design likes SR-71, Mirage or Concorde. That design allow great forward speed, but it has limited stability, and poor maneuverability - although maneuverability is not very relevant for a commercial airliner.

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