lancelot wrote:Well Russia failed plenty of Mars missions. Like Mars 96 or Fobos-Grunt. Only ExoMars 2016 worked properly. I can understand not wanting to spend a lot of money on such missions though.
When you have the worst track record of everyone and their grandma you definitely don't want to spend money on it and makes perfect sense
Those who do know how to do it properly have no problem spending money on it
Better to not try Mars mission and let everyone think you can't do it than to fu¢k up again and prove them right (yet again)
That should explain ,why putin haven't gone to the moon and venus either .. right ? and did not developed a space station in the moon or build their own space station again .
Russia is not heavily active in space explorations ,not because they "failed in mars" but putin is a failure of president , a fool , who don't see how important is for russia to lead in space , not only will benefit russia civilian industry enormously ,but also russia military one too ,on top leading in space exploration (or semiconductors or any other advance project) attract the best scientist of the world. the best engineers . students from all over the world ,will want to study in Russia , but russia needs first to demonstrate they have superior business first , superior space program and superior civilian business ,before russia will attract nations to cooperate with them.
meanwhile china is on mars AND the moon too.. in space exploration missions..
Chinese lander touches down on Mars in ‘pre-set zone’ in Beijing’s first mission to Red Planet
This is how you defeat anglo zionist empires , to reducing the western influence in their most popular and influential industries. as space industry is , but also high tech , as china is doing. Nations will see , that they don't need to follow the west if other nation development alternatives exist. but this need to be proven with actions , with success . to try to change the world , with just words , asking politely , will never work . only way to defeat the west is with business success that directly challenge the western algo best and most popular business for society.
China have a lander+ an orbiter , all done by china.. This is how you draw away the attention from the west towards other alternatives that exist away of the western control.
make no mistake , this is a major embarrassment for the west, because they have been trying to downplay china , capabilities. and have been trying to promote the western system , their system ,as the "only way" for nations to grow and prepare their nations into the future.
Putin need to pay attention to china ,what is doing . this is how you defeat the west, with success , by showing the world how powerful is your nation industries , how you can convince nations ,to stop following the western system and encourage them to become free and independent and abandon the destructive west system and cooperate for building a new one.
if china can continue doing things like this , making world headlines for major achievements of their modern business , they will eventually disband on their own alone , the western dictatorship and their business.
Now China has truly surpassed the milestones of the Soviet Union which it has tried to vigorously copy. This is the latest wakeup call for Russia. For those arguing that exoplanet exploration is of little importance and a waste of funds, I would say that space programs as a whole are more than about meeting your satellite launching needs. They are also about inspiring the next generation of scientists and, in the long run, laying down a foundation for your space economy prospects. You can't play catch up with some things effectively once they are too far gone.
I know Russia has its own programs in place. There is, for instance, the upcoming collaborative Mars campaign with ESA and some others too. But in my opinion they are too little too far in between as compared to what its solid space capacity base allows Russia.
well said..
Someone who finally get it , but they attack me ,whenever i remotely suggest putin is doing a big mistake in space. to allow americans to dominate so much. i don't mind china to dominate , but it is an embarrassment to putin ,that a nation that decades away behind from russia space program now is surpassing even soviet union achievements in space ,when it comes to mars .
putin's distraction with stupid sports , that wasted a huge fortune hosting many olympics , is the cause he cut in half the russian budget of space.. Russia is not leading in space explorations not for not having the skills ,but for having a totally outdated president ,completely unware of the mistakes he is doing. by allowing the west to lead the world in space explorations . only china is contesting it. and this is very demoralizing for russian citizens to know they are now the third power in space ,who used to be proud of their space program.
This is why russia space program lost 2-3 cosmonauts ,they resigned in protest for the paralysis of russia space program . Putin is the only one to blame for this disaster. he cut significantly russia space budget (50%) for stupid and meaningless celebrations of sports contest ,that supposedly according to him was going to promote "good relations " with the west.
new video..
chinese deserve this success without a doubt. congrats to chinese people.
GarryB wrote:Russia has problems on earth that need to be dealt with.
Going to Mars is for children.
Sending people anywhere is enormously expensive and complicated.
Wasting Russian money on silly space programmes is just that... a waste.
Please I think there was a population poll that asks what are Russians most proud of and space exploration achievements ranked 2nd place behind WW2 victory. Russia landing a person on Mars would create a great shockwave across the world compared to the moon landing and also I want to furiously masturbate to the despair and tears of musk fans. You see Blinken and his colleague took quite alot of pride bragging to the Chinese about the perseverance rover landing. It might change how the U.S. Government operates to help improve its population with a better life and education as to why they lost to the Russians.
What is the most astonishing is how there are many Musk worshippers saying shit like I cant wait to tell my kids we will land on Mars. However they do get the starship to leave orbit I am being very optimistic when I say they are 5-10% in progress to get to Mars.
They have to successfully show they will able to refuel the starship in orbit with a successful manuever.
The series of refuelers they have, they will have to refuel the starship on its way which has to be proven successful.
land a 150 ton object with heat tiles, steel which has to be proven successful and is the hardest task for a Mars mission.
Collect fuel on Mars which I hope will be done by two leg robots 1st and how long it will take to leave the planet.
Be able to successfully leave Mars.
Based on the wear and tear of the Mars mission they will have to undergo re-entry to earth and make it back.
Collect data such as how much radiation the robots were exposed to, food and supplies among other things that shows no serious medical issues upon their arrival back.
Lets say knock on wood they are the 1st to arrive on Mars I dont think a chemical rocket option would be suitable on sending manned missions to Jupiter or Saturn's many moons. Nuklon project is confusing in details such as I dont know if its a 50 or 20-30 ton spacecraft, is it going to earth moon, venus and than jupiters moon in one go or separate trips? Does it have to refuel with Xenon after the Venus mission? They just need to keep on working with nuclear reactors and MPD thrusters they also have material that is thinner and better absorption properties than lead which I posted awhile ago.
I am hoping that after the construction of nordstream 2 or some arctic projects boosts russias economy back up for more ambitious space missions. And if worse comes to worse involve the chinese in a joint mars manned mission like the joint lunar station project. After nuklon is proven a success It will be absolutely guaranteed that roscosmos will be getting offers from other countries to go finance nuclear spacecraft missions with them.
lancelot wrote:Well Russia failed plenty of Mars missions. Like Mars 96 or Fobos-Grunt. Only ExoMars 2016 worked properly. I can understand not wanting to spend a lot of money on such missions though.
So what. One US Mars mission crashed into the surface because they got the measurements units wrong.
All of you "critics" really have nothing to say. The idea that Russia is falling behind in technology because it does not wave its dick around with rover missions to Mars is simply moronic. Russia/USSR sent the first bloody rover to another celestial body in the 1960s. Russia/USSR has been the only country on Earth to have any landers on Venus. Maybe Americans and their fanbois can stroke a little harder and try to one-up Russia on Venus. I wonder why they do not even try....
GarryB wrote:Russia has problems on earth that need to be dealt with.
Going to Mars is for children.
Sending people anywhere is enormously expensive and complicated.
Wasting Russian money on silly space programmes is just that... a waste.
Indeed. This thread has degenerated into a fanboi masturbation thread.
As for Russians feeling proud about space missions. That does not mean that their pride in key first time achievements in space 50+ years ago translates into support for Mars showboating.
Take into consideration Russia is also used to contract out technical components to reach mars for Europe for example.
It really doesn't matter right now either. It may become more important later, but lots need to be fixed before they make bigger plans. After the new HQ is finished, the consolidation of facilities are completed, they will start new projects.
Besides pride, can anyone answer me what China and US get with their Rovers on Mars?
Soviets launched Mars 3 on Mars in 1971. What has changed since then? Nothing. I think most of you who wish for Russia to send a rover to mars not understand this. They already did. No, it just took photos.
But oh well, can't make everyone happy.
BTW, congrats to China on their success. Hopefully that find something more interesting but I doubt it.
Big_Gazza, kvs, thegopnik and Scorpius like this post
For me there has got to be a good reason why the nuklons final destination is one of jupiters moons than Mars as its final destination and that is to not give much intel to the west on what their capable of doing. From a strategic standpoint they probably want the west to feel relaxed until the shit really hits the fan later. I mean imagine successfully landing with a pretty heavy space tug on Mars after you released your payloads on venus and the earth's moon. The west would throw a serious panic and it becomes an international effort from the west to get serious on starting a manned flight to Mars. Therefore it is better to make them think your incapable of doing it until they realize it is too late to challenge them.
Thanks for linking this nonsensical graphic. "Starship" is a con-job. This piece of junk is a deeply flawed concept and has no real hope of being a Earth-Lunar transport system, let alone Mars
I could write for hours on how stupid this thing is, but lets just look at one major glaring hurdle that the Muskian fan-bois refuse to address - the idea that they will simply "manufacture" in-situ the hundreds of tons of rocket fuel that they will require for the return jouney. The last time I looked, none of those nations that have significant perma-frost areas (ie Russia and Canada) have ever developed a pilot plant to extract frozen ground water and convert it into LOX for oxidiser, or to extract minute traces of methane in the atmisphere and liquify it for fuel. Mars doesn't have any significant methane sources, despite the hyperventilation over trace quantities in the atmosphere.
My challenge to these Space-ex idiots is to build a small nuke-powered pilot plant in the Canadian or Alaskan wilderness and demonstrate the feasibility of in-situ fuel manufacture using components that could reasonably be carried in a stripped down "Starship" (Gods, how I hate even writing that word..) and which can be assembled, commissioned and operated by a skeleton crew (or better yet, by robots). Yeah, sure. Musk can't even get his self-driving Tesla working properly
Then we can talk about the other monumental hurdles posed by Musks nonsense design. It could well serve as a rapid-reaction sub-orbital transport for USMC expeditionary forces, but it won't cut the mustard as an interplanetary transport.
All these big plans for off world fuel production but not even a bloody pilot plant on Earth. That is proof all by itself that this one big propaganda wank fest and not a serious project. The fanbois will believe whatever nuggets of shit are fed to them and will erase from their cult-follower brains any history that contradicts their delusional beliefs. Humans are pathetic.
Big_Gazza wrote:I could write for hours on how stupid this thing is, but lets just look at one major glaring hurdle that the Muskian fan-bois refuse to address - the idea that they will simply "manufacture" in-situ the hundreds of tons of rocket fuel that they will require for the return jouney. The last time I looked, none of those nations that have significant perma-frost areas (ie Russia and Canada) have ever developed a pilot plant to extract frozen ground water and convert it into LOX for oxidiser, or to extract minute traces of methane in the atmisphere and liquify it for fuel. Mars doesn't have any significant methane sources, despite the hyperventilation over trace quantities in the atmosphere.
My challenge to these Space-ex idiots is to build a small nuke-powered pilot plant in the Canadian or Alaskan wilderness and demonstrate the feasibility of in-situ fuel manufacture using components that could reasonably be carried in a stripped down "Starship" (Gods, how I hate even writing that word..) and which can be assembled, commissioned and operated by a skeleton crew (or better yet, by robots).
I guess you never heard of Robert Zubrin's Mars Direct. That is where they got the idea from. The idea is to bring H2 with the ship to Mars (LH2). Then scoop up CO2 from the Martian atmosphere (95% of the Martian atmosphere is CO2) and convert that to methane (CH4) and oxygen (O2). 4H2 + CO2 = CH4 + 2H2O via the Sabatier reaction. You do electrolysis and you crack the resulting H2O into more H2 and O2. The H2 could also be obtained from electrolysis of water in Mars instead of bringing it with the ship but that would require actually mining the water which is a lot more difficult. The idea is that you massively reduce the amount of fuel you need to carry from Earth to do the trip back.
SpaceX is supposedly building a CH4 manufacturing facility using the Sabatier process close to the launch site in Texas.
I still think the whole thing is convoluted but it has its rationale.
Last edited by lancelot on Sun May 16, 2021 3:34 am; edited 1 time in total
Just like the video kvs demonstrated where Musk suggested solar power spaceship to land on Europa with insane radiation levels from Jupiter and the fact 200 kilowatts near earth becomes 2 kilowatts over there. I mean I could have taken him a little seriously if he decided to talk about material that is better than lead for astronauts but not even that was suggested and he stated radiation in space is not a problem. I think he is just showboating on chucking rockets into orbit because leaving orbit is one of the trivial tasks if we were to compare the later processes on a flight to mars. I encourage that after the Yenisei and Don rockets are completed that they have bigger projects than Nuklon.
kvs wrote: All of you "critics" really have nothing to say. The idea that Russia is falling behind in technology because it does not wave its dick around with rover missions to Mars is simply moronic. Russia/USSR sent the first bloody rover to another celestial body in the 1960s. Russia/USSR has been the only country on Earth to have any landers on Venus. Maybe Americans and their fanbois can stroke a little harder and try to one-up Russia on Venus. I wonder why they do not even try....
Russia need to influence their citizens , to stop leaving their nation , there is a massive exodus of russians ,that will want to go study somewhere else ,because the opportunities in russia are not high to get into anything else than gas stations projects. or nuclear reactors. All humanity dreams ,to conquer space , and there is nothing more important for the vast majority of human beings , to lead in space ,this makes society to dream big about the future.
space explorations is not a penis bragging contest. you are confusing space with putin's hockey or putin's stupid olympics , that in no fucking way help the nation on any real true development and modernizaton of their economy. Look at spain , a nation who all his life have been popular for hosting sports event ,but spain is a country that don't lead on anything , but actually a nation breaking in a million of parts , and only keep glued by the EU. Not even their king is liked and had to flee the country.
look all the benefits that russia could get if it was leading in space explorations as nasa is doing today. or doing things even bigger ,like landing in the moon or mars with humans , or sending a probe in saturn or jupiter and send ultra high definition photos from there and videos.
1) this will uplift the support of society for their government ,everyone support leading in space. 2) this will thousands of new talent ,world class engineers and scientist world wide ,to want to study in Russia ,in space technology . 3) this will place Russia in headlines world wide , in case of russia , can attract tourism , and make people interested in russian language too.. when you lead in things never done before ,that humanity consider awesome, people will follow you, is as simple as that. 4) if russia was leading in space , and had bases in moon and mars ,and leading in space manned missions , those haters ukrainians will want to restore relations with russia ,return to russia . Russia problems with ukraine ,georgia and all those nations in the west, is that they correctly understand that the american system is far away superior ,than the russian one ,that have no system at all and follows also americans. 5) space leadership will also help russia influence all their enemies ,look how russia was able to influence erdogan with s-400s , and was able to influence americans with soyuz. space influence nations and the better russia becomes in space , the more their influence will be. 6)last but not least. Leading in space , will be the most powerful motivation for russian citizens to study science and engineering and mathematics and computer programming degrees at university , will everyone to study and get a high degree college career in advance sciences, instead of low iq sports contest . this will modernize russia economy and this create high quality jobs , and will promote true patriotism too. this will end , the liberals movements in russia. 7) finally , this will finally solve the problem ,that nobody takes seriously russia interest in the world. If putin wants the west to listen , they will not listen him with gold medals in sports , neither with politeness bullshit or neither by waving in their faces hypersonic missiles or bigger nukes.
The west will only listen Russia ,when they become a leaders in space ,or the leaders in future high tech that society truly enjoy , surpassing anglowestern and their asian tech colonies business
why you think why china today is praised so much in the world by most societies? because they are good in sports? or it is because china is showing the world is very strong and can compete with america in advanced civilian business? the world is really tired of the western arrogance and they are cheering china business success , because is an opportunity to finally end their dependence on western business.
is endless the benefits ,for russia ,to lead in space , endless , it is worth of it ,any investment ,this move the economy and pulls the entire world towards the russian orbit and abandon the western system.
the west wants to break russia ,because russia don't influence the west.. with their business. they see correctly see ,that putin is a weak and insecure president and they correctly perceive that russia is not needed at all in the world , don't have anything that americans civilian business can't do too.. but if russia was doing space tourism around moon and mars, it will steal the show world wide , every rich person in the world ,will be waiting in line for a space travel ticket from russia space program.
influence is all. without influence you are no one. In the world we live , of unfair competition ,and nations too dominating and others too weak , russia cannot exist ,as a third grade country , just doing taxi to the iss ,and giving nations gas discounts..
the western hostile rethoric against russia will not exist , if russia had an enourmous leadership and domination in space explorations. if russia was doing things ,americans can't do in space ,and totally dominating , the anglo west will be dropping their hostilities against russia ,to benefit from russia space program. and get cooperation.. all russia problems , is consequences of putin's developing russia in the most laziest way possible, not caring about leading on anything but in bigger nukes contest and bullshit medals in sport.. this is sad. and terrible.. because shows putin have absolutely no idea ,of what he is doing. how russia lack of modernization of its economy is literary killing their country and isolating russia from the most influential nations in world politics and that create the rules of word trade.
The idea that Russia is falling behind in technology
Is not about falling or winning , in refrigerators , or electrical can openers. is about challenging the american leadership in the world in space and very high tech industry. is not about russia knowing , is not an intelligence contest , but a high tech BUSINESS RACE . a competition of sales , of having things the world will want to get and invest their hard earned money on it.
All People love space exploration ,sports racing cars ,everyone love entertainment , everyone love technology that makes their lives better and more productive and the nation who wins here ,wins all. this is what is all about.
The nations that all they offer the world is gass discounts ,sports medals and build better weapons ,will mostly influence the most mediocre countries of all . Putin ask for "Dedolarization" ,that people stop using dollars ,without challenging the western business first. this is really sad how clueless putin is .
Is All about winning the attention of the world and specially the west and their asian colonies ,with their business for being far more exciting ,amazing and unbelievable awesome achievements. is all about showing the world ,the russian system is better than the anglozionist west , so that no nation have to fear of losing the business with the west ,because russia and its allies will have a much better alternative to any advanced business that the west offers to its allies. But is even better when the business compete directly with those most popular business that the anglo west have ,because damage their economy too.
Thats said , it doesn't matter any sport medals contest ,any olympics, it doesn't matter banana records in farming ,does not matter if when extracting gas ,russia needs to separate helium or cow farts from the pipeline , the only business that should matter at least for Russia , is those that will help them develop a true independence of the west and directly compete and challenge the west and their colonies most popular business in the world. only that way , Russia can earn the respect and the security it desire , by breaking the western system with business power.
The most important day for Russia future and change history , when Russia was a leader .
This is what really matters ,when you lead, this is how you stop the west. how you attract the world into your orbit ,and stop following the west. with leadership is how you win and earn respect and get society aligned with your government and get the world attracted to your orbit.
Last edited by Vann7 on Sun May 16, 2021 6:06 am; edited 7 times in total
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and have been trying to promote the western system , their 
Russia is not leading in space explorations
thegopnik
