Cyberspec wrote:Brennan and his sidekicks could quite possibly end up in jail. So they have no choice but to escalate and do all they can to get rid off Trump.
If I was Trump I'd be watching my back as well since the CIA is after him. But IMO, Trump isn't just some lone outsider. He must have some backing within the power structures, otherwise he wouldn't have been able to win back in 2016. If alternative news sources are to be believed, Trump has support within the DIA (Military Intel)
Brennan has better chances of ending up in White House than in jail
Clinton cartel is still running that country despite what happens in some token elections, that much is obvious to everyone now
The Turks have large numbers of Syrian refugees and of course all the nutters that were in Idlib who also supported ISIS... I rather suspect the Turkish plan is not total occupation of all of Syria, but a small incursion in the north of Syria so they can dump all the Syrians in a place called Syria and wash their hands of them.
The fact that they will have to move some Kurds to do this is a win win for them because as far as they are concerned they don't want Syrians in their country and they don't want Kurdish territories next to it either.
Assad and Russia will sit back and watch the Turks and the Kurds fight each other, and to be honest it would be in their interests and the interests of Iran for the two proxy forces... Syrian exiles and pro ISIS on the turkish side with turkish air support to kill as many syrian kurds as they can an in turn be killed by said kurds... that would be good for turkey and for russia and assad and iran... in fact for everyone except obviously the bad guys... the kurds, the isis guys and gals, the americans and the juice.
GarryB wrote:The Turks have large numbers of Syrian refugees and of course all the nutters that were in Idlib who also supported ISIS... I rather suspect the Turkish plan is not total occupation of all of Syria, but a small incursion in the north of Syria so they can dump all the Syrians in a place called Syria and wash their hands of them.
This is one of the primary objectives of this operation.
Turkish 2016 alleged coup was set by Erdogan himself
I don't think so. Russians seem to have help him counter that and that's when he started having bad relations with Obama and US in general.
The Turks are thinking of doing what they did in Kobani, either the Turks do that or this ends badly for the Turks. Russia, SAA and Allies just need to sit back on this and watch them destroy each other.
Kurds have a large amount of weapons and ATGM. They will be helped by the europeans and russians/iran by means of weapon transfert.
Turks will feel it badly.
Why would the Russia and Iran help the kurds? The Kurds have back stabbed both Russia and Iran. All Russia and Iran has to do, is set back and watch the Kurds come to their senses.
Did Russia help Kurds in 2014? No. America did. That's why.
First Squawk @FirstSquawk · 48m REPUBLICAN, DEMOCRATIC U.S. SENATORS GRAHAM AND VAN HOLLEN UNVEIL OUTLINE OF PROPOSED SANCTIONS ON TURKEY, INCLUDING TARGETING ERDOGAN'S U.S. ASSETS, IMPOSING VISA RESTRICTIONS
If they ban sale of F110 engines for Turkey's TFX fighter jet that'll stop Erdogan.
In the end Russia is loser Turkey the US would be winner because US gets Manbij, Tabqa, Deir es Zor, Turkey gets 39 km zone. Russia loses SDF which are not hostile to Russia.
First Squawk @FirstSquawk · 48m REPUBLICAN, DEMOCRATIC U.S. SENATORS GRAHAM AND VAN HOLLEN UNVEIL OUTLINE OF PROPOSED SANCTIONS ON TURKEY, INCLUDING TARGETING ERDOGAN'S U.S. ASSETS, IMPOSING VISA RESTRICTIONS
If they do this, they have given Turkey to Russia and China on a Silver Platter.
First Squawk @FirstSquawk · 48m REPUBLICAN, DEMOCRATIC U.S. SENATORS GRAHAM AND VAN HOLLEN UNVEIL OUTLINE OF PROPOSED SANCTIONS ON TURKEY, INCLUDING TARGETING ERDOGAN'S U.S. ASSETS, IMPOSING VISA RESTRICTIONS
If they do this, they have given Turkey to Russia and China on a Silver Platter.
If they ban arms sales then yes. Or it could just be lip service like how they sanctioned Russia after Crimea annexation.
ultimatewarrior wrote:In the end Russia is loser Turkey the US would be winner because US gets Manbij, Tabqa, Deir es Zor, Turkey gets 39 km zone. Russia loses SDF which are not hostile to Russia.
The US is pulling out. The SDF will request regime assistance which will put Russian line of control up to the Turkish held areas. I can't believe Trump is just handing it to us.
ultimatewarrior wrote:In the end Russia is loser Turkey the US would be winner because US gets Manbij, Tabqa, Deir es Zor, Turkey gets 39 km zone. Russia loses SDF which are not hostile to Russia.
The US is pulling out. The SDF will request regime assistance which will put Russian line of control up to the Turkish held areas. I can't believe Trump is just handing it to us.
...and what an outstanding outcome that will be for Russia/Syria. To the East, the oil fields will come under Syrian control again.
ultimatewarrior wrote:In the end Russia is loser Turkey the US would be winner because US gets Manbij, Tabqa, Deir es Zor, Turkey gets 39 km zone. Russia loses SDF which are not hostile to Russia.
The US is pulling out. The SDF will request regime assistance which will put Russian line of control up to the Turkish held areas. I can't believe Trump is just handing it to us.
The US is not leaving the following places:
1. West Aleppo Manbij pocket.
2. Deir es Zor east of Euphrates.
3. Tanf
4. Most of Hasakah.
Turkey only gets northern Raqqa and northern Hasakah. US and Turkey have deal to split control eastern Syria.
ultimatewarrior wrote:In the end Russia is loser Turkey the US would be winner because US gets Manbij, Tabqa, Deir es Zor, Turkey gets 39 km zone. Russia loses SDF which are not hostile to Russia.
The US is pulling out. The SDF will request regime assistance which will put Russian line of control up to the Turkish held areas. I can't believe Trump is just handing it to us.
...and what an outstanding outcome that will be for Russia/Syria. To the East, the oil fields will come under Syrian control again.
Nope. The US retains control of Omar oil field. Turkey's 30 km zone does not reach that far south.
Russians prank-called Lindsey Graham, posing as Turkey’s defense minister. Graham expressed sympathy for Turkey’s “Kurdish problem” & described the Kurds as a “threat” contradicting his public statements. “I told Trump that Obama made a huge mistake in relying on the YPG Kurds” Graham said.
The US couldn't stay in Eastern Syria forever anyway. They are there to have leverage in the outcome of the Syria war
________
PapaDragon wrote: Politicians, gotta love 'em
Russians prank-called Lindsey Graham, posing as Turkey’s defense minister. Graham expressed sympathy for Turkey’s “Kurdish problem” & described the Kurds as a “threat” contradicting his public statements. “I told Trump that Obama made a huge mistake in relying on the YPG Kurds” Graham said.
ultimatewarrior wrote: Nope. The US retains control of Omar oil field. Turkey's 30 km zone does not reach that far south.
The US can't control anything without the support of the Kurdish people. Once they ask for regime assistance, that means US is no longer welcome.
It is not happening yet. Kurds are trying to go in southern US bases to seak protection. In the same time talks with Assad ended with no agreement because they refused the major three request of Assad which are giving up weapons, forgeting about kurdistan and self administration and sending back the US soldier home.
It is not happening yet. Kurds are trying to go in southern US bases to seak protection. In the same time talks with Assad ended with no agreement because they refused the major three request of Assad which are giving up weapons, forgeting about kurdistan and self administration and sending back the US soldier home.
It is just a matter of time, look at the war crimes Turkey's terrorists are committing.
ultimatewarrior wrote: Nope. The US retains control of Omar oil field. Turkey's 30 km zone does not reach that far south.
The US can't control anything without the support of the Kurdish people. Once they ask for regime assistance, that means US is no longer welcome.
It is not happening yet. Kurds are trying to go in southern US bases to seak protection. In the same time talks with Assad ended with no agreement because they refused the major three request of Assad which are giving up weapons, forgeting about kurdistan and self administration and sending back the US soldier home.
...and then what happens? pummeled by Turks and they soon realise they're not the big cheese afterall, they go back to Assad saying i tell you what how about we give up on homeland, handover weapons and we dont want to self administration anyway....
ultimatewarrior wrote:In the end Russia is loser Turkey the US would be winner because US gets Manbij, Tabqa, Deir es Zor, Turkey gets 39 km zone. Russia loses SDF which are not hostile to Russia.
The US is pulling out. The SDF will request regime assistance which will put Russian line of control up to the Turkish held areas. I can't believe Trump is just handing it to us.
...and what an outstanding outcome that will be for Russia/Syria. To the East, the oil fields will come under Syrian control again.
Nope. The US retains control of Omar oil field. Turkey's 30 km zone does not reach that far south.
sdf area, if kurds run to assad via russia...oil fields are syrian again.
ultimatewarrior wrote:In the end Russia is loser Turkey the US would be winner because US gets Manbij, Tabqa, Deir es Zor, Turkey gets 39 km zone. Russia loses SDF which are not hostile to Russia.
The US is pulling out. The SDF will request regime assistance which will put Russian line of control up to the Turkish held areas. I can't believe Trump is just handing it to us.
...and what an outstanding outcome that will be for Russia/Syria. To the East, the oil fields will come under Syrian control again.
Nope. The US retains control of Omar oil field. Turkey's 30 km zone does not reach that far south.
Turkey will not be happy with that initial 30km zone.. they will continue pushing down a little bit more and more to see how far they can get.. to disarm the is one of their major goals . and teach them a lesson too that Americans can't help them... So like others have told , If US don't defend Kurdz zones , then US will lose its credibility as a trusted partner because US will not break relations with Turkey. no matter what turkey do.. The sanctions are to scare him , and weaken a bit turkey economy ,but is not anything at the level of IRAN ,not even close. .they can't afford to lose Turkey from NATO.. and lose their military base either.
This means that is Game over for the Kurds Kurdistan project.. they will be in a sandwich controlling nor borders anywhere.. not even the border of IRAQ ,so weapons no longer will enter in Turkey from any place. So Kurds will be between 2 armies Turkey and Syrian army and IRAQ army.. and all of those armies have something in common ,will not allow Kurds to continue to be armed by Americans ,stealing their oil.. in case of IRAQ and Syria. So US abandoning kurds to their luck in Syria ,is to put them in the hands of Syrian Army and Russia ,that is the only ones that can protect their lives.. but they will be demanded to 1)Completely disarm 2)Completely abandon their Kurdistan project 3) to stop any cooperation with Americans.. So if Kurds are smart they will surrender completely to Syria government and Russia ,and agree to Integrate to Syria ,abandoning all their plans for an autonomy or independence or any kurdistan.. Kurds created the conditions for Alqaeda and ISIS to invade Syria by cooperating with Americans..
So doomed and in panic are the kurds.. that IRAQui Kurds requested an emergency meeting with Russia lavrov.. to help solve them their difference with IRAQ government.. so to prevent Turkey from invading their zones too.. by inviting IRAQ army to enter their zones and they disarm.. So inconditional submission of Kurds to their respective countries real governments is the only way ,they have a chance to at least continue living in their homes as free people and in peace , and not have to deal with turkey army invasion ,that will be much worse for them.. So Russia later can invite turkey to monitor the zones kurds are without any fighting happening and their properties before the war began ,the one they did not stole respected..
So is a real pain the future that awaits of kurds because no matter which decision they take.. kurdistan project is officially death.. , they have been too greedy ,listening their American friends and nobody explained them the reality ,that it will be imposible Kurdistan to happen without the very same countries they want to fight and steal territory. So is like Hong Kong.. all those idiots asking independence.. is like south carolina demanding Independence from United States.. Kurdistan will never exist as long Turkey /Syria and IRAQ and IRAN oppose that idea..and Russia oppose that idea too.. Kurds share responsibility for all this wars in the zone,and insecurity in the region ,by allowing US to be in their zones.. and aiming their guns at Syria and IRAQ and Turkey.. now they need to face the consequences of their bad behavior and will lose their entire Kurdistant project...the best they can hope is to have Syria and IRAQ and Russia to help them ,but they will need to surrender everything ..their weapons and their ambitions to become a new nation.. and now integrate with their countries government.. it was the Kurds in IRAQ who allowed ISIS to enter in IRAQ.. So some kurds leaders will have to go in the run for their criminal acts..and Kurds in syria helped ISIS oil smuggling business..too.. So all kurdish leadership will be hanged by Kurds with their own hands , for destroying their future.. by following US and Israel agendas.. they not only facilitated the destruction of Syria and IRAQ ,by remaining neutral or even allowing terroist to use their territory.. but they destroyed all their future ,for their alliance with Anglo powers and israel.
and after Kurds lose control of their lands..whether because Turkey take them by force of because they pass the control to Syria ,after disarming.. then they will not longer listen Americans again.. So US position in Syria will be totally useless.. without kurds.. and significantly US relevance in the zone will matter.. no longer they will influence any faction in middle east.. if US abandon Kurds that is.. Will send a message to all other countries that you can oppose the American empire ,defend sovereignty and get away with it.. with Russia and or Turkey help..
sdf area, if kurds run to assad via russia...oil fields are syrian again.
Correct.. and the only zone in Syria americans will be is in their base near Jordan border ,that is totally useless to major problems to Syria.. They had to block Syria from IRAQ ,and failed in that.. so US position is very weak to say the least.. and by staying in Syria it only damage US image at home . My bet is Saudi Arabia ,UAE And Jordan kingdom will move closer to the Russian and China orbit.. they know that with the help Russia and China, they could defend their sovereignty ,bypass any US sanctions and counter anything US throw at them.. Best thing Trump can do is restore relations with Assad and offer end of sanctions in change for protection to kurds.. and try to get some constructive dialogue between Syria and Israel for both security. that will help him score many points with many on its fan base.. who voted for him to end the wars.. and help to officially end the war in Syria..but his enemies will for sure not allow it..
Here protest of Kurds in germany.. upset with their allies for not defending from erdogan military operation in their lands..
The thing is that Turkey will probably get its way over the kurds, and US senators can talk about sanctions, but that will just make turkey listen less to the US and look to Russia and China more.
Once Turkey has dumped all these ISIS assholes in this territory it is only a matter of time before they start crossing borders... which is not going to be good for the Kurds... and if there are enough of them there they could use funding from US and Israel and Saudi Arabia and develop into a real threat to the Kurds... over an enormous front they will find weak spots and expand their new caliphate... Turkey will probably wash their hands of them once they are off turkish territory so they will need to expand south.
The Americans are not there in enormous numbers and wont ever commit the sort of numbers that would be needed to stop a turkish force or indeed a pro assad syrian force with Russian support and Iranian support... and as they try to reduce their numbers the kurds are going to tell them all to fuck off because they are no longer significant and in fact are part of the problem with Assad.
Regarding Assads demands he might soften on a few of the demands if the demand for the Americans to leave is met... especially if the ISIS forces deposited in northern Syria by Turkey are successful in taking some oil resources...
We should not expect the SDF to change or be able to change quickly. They may fight to the end. Loosing men and territory as they go. Turkey advancing South. And Turkey getting into skirmishes with Yank. And occupying the East. In this case, the Rats spread out in the East. Start to eat the Kurds. At that point the Kurds will have no choice but to turn to SAA for help. By that time, Turks killed yank. And firmly in our camp. So kurds drive out Rats. And we negotiate / push Turks out. I go to Ankara myself. It is close by and there is train from Tehran.
Or the leadership of SDF changed. They renounce separate kurdistan. Allow SAA into East. And take part in political talks. Constitution. And Syrian government ensure no discrimination against Kurds or investment in reconstruction or development. Then SDF units amalgamated into SAA. And drive out yank and Turk. More difficult.
In either case, the Kurds will have little choice but to turn to government. Since yank abandon them. And not possible to live with Rats. So government can wait. No rush. Pick the fruit when ripe. Negotiate / push out Turk is easier with Kurd help than drive out Turk and Yank with SDF help.
Russians prank-called Lindsey Graham, posing as Turkey’s defense minister. Graham expressed sympathy for Turkey’s “Kurdish problem” & described the Kurds as a “threat” contradicting his public statements. “I told Trump that Obama made a huge mistake in relying on the YPG Kurds” Graham said.
Same guy who wants to give Turks ''sanctions from hell''
on twitter: we will sanction the hell out of Turkey. Turkey you will pay for this very badly! on the phone with the people who he thinks are Turks: Yes sir, please sir, I understand sir. Oh you graham.
EU countries are falling over themselves to sanction Turkey for this, so pretty much this is isolating Turkey from its so called NATO allies... if I was Turkey I would start looking for replacements from China and Russia and start looking for other areas of cooperation.
Russia and China don't tell Turkey what they can or cannot do...
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