Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues
Still, since 2014, the Crimean economy suffered greatly from the loss of tourism; the RF also been selling Kiev oil & gas at reduced rates, gave them $3B, & lost a lot of $ on import substitution on marine turbines, aircraft & engines. The VMF would also now have that infamous Slava CG, & perhaps Ulyanovsk CVN; the use of the Nikolaev shipyard could have prevented the loss of that drydock & damage to the Adm. K. Besides, Ms of low Ukrainian wage workers in the EU help its economy instead of Russia's- which has to import laborers from Central Asia, some of whom commit serious crimes.That is bullshit... 100 million dollars is peanuts and is really nothing in the scheme of things...
I know the basics & don't need u to tell me that.Start learning the basics before talking nonsense.
Russia would have needed the Ukraine of 1992, not the one of 2014.Tsavo Lion wrote:I know the basics & don't need u to tell me that.Start learning the basics before talking nonsense.
Even if there r, & despite of great benefits, now & in the long run, my point is that Russia lost a lot, esp. since 2014, in the context of her bad relations with Ukraine.
It will take many years, possible decades, for the situation to stabilize.
Tsavo Lion wrote:I know the basics & don't need u to tell me that.Start learning the basics before talking nonsense.
Even if there r, & despite of great benefits, now & in the long run, my point is that Russia lost a lot, esp. since 2014, in the context of her bad relations with Ukraine.
It will take many years, possible decades, for the situation to stabilize.
Yes, but it was worth it, as they believe that they r 1 people & some day will reunite politically.In 20 years Russia spent over $200B subsidizing Ukraine. They didn't actually get that money back in trade as the trade barely benefitted Russia.
Even if there r, & despite of great benefits, now & in the long run, my point is that Russia lost a lot, esp. since 2014, in the context of her bad relations with Ukraine.
It will take many years, possible decades, for the situation to stabilize.
miketheterrible wrote:Tsavo Lion wrote:I know the basics & don't need u to tell me that.Start learning the basics before talking nonsense.
Even if there r, & despite of great benefits, now & in the long run, my point is that Russia lost a lot, esp. since 2014, in the context of her bad relations with Ukraine.
It will take many years, possible decades, for the situation to stabilize.
In 20 years Russia spent over $200B subsidizing Ukraine. They didn't actually get that money back in trade as the trade barely benefitted Russia.
So no, you don't know shit all about economics.
Most of them will get RF passports & do want to be an autonomy within Russia. They did have referendums there on becoming independent:The people in the Donbass don't think they are Russian and want to join Russia...
I agree, and even with all the mistakes and sabotage made by the idiot and criminal soviet leadership (in primis Gorbachev and Shevarnadze), when Eltsin, Kravchuk and Shukevich met in DecemberTsavo Lion wrote:
If just the 3 majority Slavic republics- Russia, Ukraine & Belorussia stayed together, all the hugelosses RF sustained could be avoided.
In retrospect, those 3 leaders who signed the accord to dissolve the USSR & create the CIS were traitors to their people.
Ukraine also helped separatist Chechnya & later Georgia against the RF; Chechens & Georgians were participating in the Donbass fighting on the Kiev side ever since, adding to those losses.
Rodion_Romanovic wrote:I agree, and even with all the mistakes and sabotage made by the idiot and criminal soviet leadership (in primis Gorbachev and Shevarnadze), when Eltsin, Kravchuk and Shukevich met in DecemberTsavo Lion wrote:
If just the 3 majority Slavic republics- Russia, Ukraine & Belorussia stayed together, all the hugelosses RF sustained could be avoided.
In retrospect, those 3 leaders who signed the accord to dissolve the USSR & create the CIS were traitors to their people.
Ukraine also helped separatist Chechnya & later Georgia against the RF; Chechens & Georgians were participating in the Donbass fighting on the Kiev side ever since, adding to those losses.
1991(the Belovezha Accords) the situation could have still be salvaged (maybe after only the loss of the 3 baltic countries) if Gorbachev acted quickly and arrested those traitors.
Any decent head of state could have saved the situation: it did not need particular statesmanship.
That however did not happen, and Gorbachev was even more a traitor to its own people than Eltsin.
The big mistake for the Soviet Union was not having good leaders at the beginning of the 80s that were not already with one and half foot in the grave.
Andropov could have been a very good head of state 10 years before, but when he got the job he was too old, and the people that replaced him where even closer to death.
Gorbachev probably seemed to be young and energetic, and probably the communist party intelligentsia did not expect him to be a spineless glory seeker ready to sell his country to the americans and cultivate an antirussian sentiment in the various soviet nations.
The germs of these problems however layed in the rooth since decades, when Lenin and trotsky destroyed the Russian empire and created ethnic based states in the border regions. Later they started to emerge after the antistalin canpaign from Krushev (another ukrainian lover)
Now Russia has to live with the consequences of Gorbachev and Eltsin betrayals and mistakes.
If just the 3 majority Slavic republics- Russia, Ukraine & Belorussia stayed together, all the hugelosses RF sustained could be avoided.
In retrospect, those 3 leaders who signed the accord to dissolve the USSR & create the CIS were traitors to their people.
Ukraine also helped separatist Chechnya & later Georgia against the RF; Chechens & Georgians were participating in the Donbass fighting on the Kiev side ever since, adding to those losses.
Those $570B by itself is not a small amount by any stretch, & Russia could use those $ for a lot of better things had she not lost them.
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