Vladimir Putin Thread

Two major ships with gasoline ,were stolen by american pirates , that is the US navy than under putin's noses , stole them away from venezuela ,and Russia did not even provided security to those ships , to help venezuela with their energy crisis , that is under attack by US.

Syria and Venezuela are countries, they are not children... if there was a risk of the US Navy being then they should have used their own navy vessels and armed men on board the transport ships to prevent the US Navy from hijacking them.

GarryB wrote:

Two major ships with gasoline ,were stolen by american pirates , that is the US navy than under putin's noses , stole them away from venezuela ,and Russia did not even provided security to those ships , to help venezuela with their energy crisis , that is under attack by US.  

Syria and Venezuela are countries, they are not children... if there was a risk of the US Navy being  then they should have used their own navy vessels and armed men on board the transport ships to prevent the US Navy from hijacking them.

They are not children ,but they alone can't fight the US naval firepower , so keep making absurd excuses for Putin avoiding his obligations with their closest allies.  All this misery venezuela and syria
experience is consequence of those nations trusting in Russia , as an ally ,that will provide them the security they need to operate as a country. You can say whatever you want, but Is totally inexcusable ,plain cowardice  ,to agree with Putin criminal betrayal of his allies to their own luck , after they face economic retaliation or military one from US . What Russia did to syria , that nearly collapse to Isis ,and wait just 30 days before their capital city collapse to come to their rescue , this is the most criminal and lowest thing putin have done in his presidency and now abandoning venezuela to byte the dust too.  if that imbecile ,don't want to have any responsibility in aiding any nation if attacked
for trusting and following Russia calls for an alliance , then putin need to stop encouraging nations
to ever trust in Russia as a reliable partner ,because they are not.  to fool nations into alliance and friendship and later leaving them alone is plain coward and criminal. putin need to get the hell out of the world and limit his foreign policy to his own borders  ,so that no millions of lives turned miserable because of Russia using the world as a meat shield to fight the americans.  Soviet union did the same with cuba , betrayed them after they agree to become a major ally with them . Russia need to stop encouraging any alliance with any nation to fight the west , if he later don't plan to stand with them when attacked is that simple.  putin need to get the hell out of the world and stop pretending is a nation that the world can trust for anything if things goes bad.

This is why i do agree with armenia , looking elsewhere , this is why i would encourage serbia to do the same. The opportunistic  president putin and his government ,can't be trusted for anything , he is a fucking liar and a fucking coward , fooling the world into thinking Russia is a friend they can trust
and can count when things go bad ,for choosing to follow Russia.  Putin pretends to be a leader ,but he is not , someone like putin that demoralize his own military ,that looks to the other side ,when israeli airforce intentionally provoke the killing of dozens of russian airforce generals according to shogu defense minister.  Peter the great ,will have hanged Putin with his own hands in public for being a traitor to his own military ,for far less of the things he have done, if he was alive . Leaders never betray those who risk their lives ,for fighting shoulder to shoulder by their side. Putin does not have any honor ,for his military or any ally ,is simply a populist moron ,that is destroying Russia from the inside by holding hostage the nation for 20 years , into almost total paralysis for anything outside military development.  all that imbecile cares is about is to turn Russia into the gas station of europe
and nothing else. And later he don't understand why no one listen Russia ,why only rejected nations by the developed economies ,that have no friends , are the only ones that accept to listen and follow Russia. Not even china follows Russia, the midget weak president asked the world for end using dollars ,and not even china listen him. Why would any nation follow today Russia on anything ?
that is even scared to stand by their own military when is attacked? .

You stand by your allies , period. and weak nations like Russia is ,thanks to Putin incompetence, need to stop promoting protection on any nation that oppose the western system as putin have done.

Russia makes gas turbines now, of the size that was once imported.

lancelot wrote:AFAIK Russia never promised Venezuela or Syria anything like an alliance. As for Cuba the USSR spent massive resources in their aid and the flow only stopped with the fall of the USSR.

Russia is not the USSR and it does not have an entirely closed economy. With Venezuela hit with sanctions like that where Venezuelans can't even get parts to do maintenance on their electric grid what do you expect Russia to do? Russia can provide some aid, but they cannot continue maintaining all the infrastructure a country like Venezuela has bought from the West for decades. What are they expected to do, rip everything out and replace with 100% Russian products? Even in Russia itself that is not done. Just look at gas turbine power plant construction in Russia as an example. The gas turbines are imported. There is no industry to produce gas turbines of that scale in Russia. Now, it is not that it could not be done, if Japan or Germany can manufacture gas turbines of that size so could Russia. But you get my drift. If all trade was blocked Russia would be suffering too. Not as much as Venezuela since the scale of both countries is different, but they would too. The situation is unfortunate but it is life as we know it. Russia also borders China so they have options a country like Venezuela does not. Even then it has taken a decade and tons of investment to get to the current stage of Russia-China trade and it still is not enough to replace lost Russia-EU trade even if it getting there.

Ukraine borders the EU and just look at the entire mess their economy got into when they cut economic ties with Russia. Their economy collapsed in free fall. It is completely superfluous with the EU's economy as well so even if they joined, which they won't, there is little they can do to improve. They just shot themselves on the foot.

agree , Russia is not longer a super power , is just a regional power , this is why putin need to stop behaving as if russia was one super power ,because any nation they encourage to host russian military bases ,is a nation that will be on the hit list by US and NATO. and this is the point trying to make.  Russia can save millions of lives , by staying the hell out of the world ,stay on its borders and to never encourage any nation to ever fight the anglozionist west . Is too powerful for Russia to counter it.   And only make an alliance with nations that don't need Russia help ,that can fight back on their own. only alliance that makes sense for russia is china and nothing else.

The point here is that all this misery that US cause in the world , all the countries that get destroyed
either their economy or by military ways , this are all wars , proxy wars against Russia.

If putin warned syria ,that they will be alone on their own ,versus Israel and NATO and turkey. something that will have been obvious after they invaded iraq , the next logical step was take down all other israel enemies. but putin did nothing , he began to arm syria even more ,to fight israel.
and later when hell explode ,and nato gets an army of terrorist , then putin look to the other side
,and say is not our problem.   but he is wrong , it is Russia problem ,because it was putin that encouraged those nations to fight ,to resist the american hegemony , by selling them weapons , and offering friendship he does that.  Only nations not aligned with US or Israel are destroyed , i rather see a syria ,venezuela and cuba in peace ,and a russia isolated in the world ,until he is kicked from power and a true leader replace him.  but a parasite president like Putin is , that wants use other countries for their own benefit ,to minimize the pressure of US sanctions on Russia at the expense of Russia allies security this is plain wrong. Any nation that putin ask help ,with a refueling station for russian navy ,sells weapons that can sink american warships is a nation that will be US /israel   hit list. and this is highly irresponsible policy ,just criminal .  to put under big danger other nations ,by encouraging them to oppose the anglo western world. putin is the only one to blame for ukraine being disbanded and those in eastern ukraine being used as guinea pigs , to fight wars for the benefit of russia.  armenia will have never lost territory if was allied to NATO , iran will not be under sanctions if was a neutral nation like jordan ,UAE . venezuela will not be starved to death if putin warned them that they will be alone on their own if face sanctions..  but putin don't do that , he will prefer to sell weapons and make some profits ,even if the nation is destroyed later.

this crazy stupid foreign policy of putin , you saw in action in the armenian conflict.. that putin sells weapons to both sides of the conflict.  and give modernized planes to armenia but warn them to not use them.   give s-300s to syria ,but warn them to not use them to defend itself.   Putin foreign policy is a disaster , and he makes it very easy for the west to damage russia , by just provoking endless conflicts ,at all those poor nations ,that have were made to believe
that russia will come to their help if they attacked.  if russia encourage any nation to fight the western system ,that they will not be alone , this is the problem. because when problems start ,they find themselves alone.  remember how putin told ,will help syria ,even if had to fight isis armies in moscow? is this is not an encouragement for syria to keep fighting super powers alone ,and trust russia can properly defend them with a very limited aid , no idea what is.

Putin was even offering brazil years ago, the intellectual transfer of technology of their stealth planes,
when brazil was ruled by pro russian government.  had that deal ever happened ,will have allowed americans to get for free the technology of their su-57 planes. this is why i say Putin is the biggest
danger for russia national security.  His policies shows total desperation for a few dollars , they even sell s-400s to turkey and now teaching them how to build nuclear reactors.. what could go wrong ,
turkey developing nuclear weapons ?     Putin is very dangerous for russia. he had to be kicked long time ago ,after 2008 , retire him from politics.

Russia is not the USRR and so putin need to stop encouraging nations to oppose the western system ,need to end 99% of their alliances ,and not even sell weapons to them unless they want to commit suicide and being warned they will be alone in their fight .  i will have pressured syria to a protectorate of france , or a colony of china ,whatever .and russia get the hell out of the middle east. .anything but never to encourage them to fight NATO or israel ,simply they are not prepared for that .  Serbia need to join nato , armenia too and iran become a colony of france , belarus need to go to the west. this is how you avoid endless wars ,that americans will start and russia can't end.

and then let the sanctions collapse Russia economy again ,and put an end of the disastrous era of Putin , so much talent and scientific power wasted for nothing ,for gas stations and farming food. Putin "saved" russia for nothing ,to let it fall again and hit harder the floor. New leaders will emerge ,much younger of new generations that will be more smarter and understand how to build rebuild russia.  i rather see ,russia to become a colony of china ,than to see putin destroying it ,as he is doing with his passiveness and obsolete outdated development of the nation. China at least do have a vision of the future , to become leaders of the world . the only thing china needs is more space for its 1.4 billions of citizens and plenty of energy ,and russia have all of that.
Give Xi Jinping ,the full control of Russia ,and you will see how in time record ,he totally transform the nation from a potatoes and wheat exporter ,into the most powerful nation in the world in less than a decade .

lancelot wrote:

miketheterrible wrote:Russia makes gas turbines now, of the size that was once imported.

I was talking about power generation gas turbines like the Siemens or Mitsubishi ones. The ones used in hundreds of MWs electric power plants.
https://www.rt.com/business/463903-siemens-russia-production-localisation/
https://www.stalkerzone.org/revival-of-the-domestic-gas-turbine-construction-work-on-the-creation-of-a-powerful-gas-turbine-in-russia-is-in-full-swing/
https://power-m.ru/en/customers/thermal-power/gas-turbines/

Yeah, but they prepared themselves for sanctions and thus started making their own large ones (114MW or larger) to combat these companies who refused due to Crimea sanctions.

This has been posted on this forums.

Are we going to have some BS non-discussion about how Putin has been caught with his pants down by all the brilliant western
sanctions? Really?

kvs wrote:Are we going to have some BS non-discussion about how Putin has been caught with his pants down by all the brilliant western
sanctions?  Really?

Well, we got one guy who thinks Russia doesn't build their own turbines and he is also responding to known retard Vann.

So this thread will end up a shitfest.

lancelot wrote:
First, Putin does not go outside the boundaries of what he knows he can do. Second, even if Russia stays on its borders the US would not stop encroaching on Russia's borders and doing their usual shit everywhere else. Just look at what happened when Yeltsin was in power. The US even turns its own allies against them like Egypt (aiding the Muslim Brotherhood) and Turkey (trying to depose Erdogan with a military coup). Russia is simply acting on its own best interest .

indeed, but at the expense of the misery of millions of civilians in other nations.

don't you understand the the syrian war is in reality war against Russia its ultimate goal?
but is syria the one attacked directly by NATO and israel and not Russia.
The syrian war is a trap ,that american and british and israel planned and destroying syria was
only a bonus , to end the support of hezbolah . but the big big goal there was to crush the Russian
army ,in a endless war ,with the entire middle east invading it..  this is very clever attack on Russia interest which are all their closest allies.


Can you see that the war on venezuela ,is a war against Russia too.. they don't care about
venezuela at all , american's have oil . US is only in venezuela because they want to capture
venezuela oil ,then later use that oil ,to flood the market with oil , and increase the pressure
on Russia economy ,because the more oil is produced in the world ,the lower will be its value.
this is how they bankrupt russia in the 90s , with oil price wars ,combined with a proxy chechen war
that nato was the main supplier of weapons to them through turkey ,and with the help of georgia.

All roads leads to rome , all major wars leads to Russia. the arab spring ,which is a muslim brotherhood war , is nothing more than a war to remove all the business client states of Russia in the world  . The anglozionist were is preparing the scenario for a major war against russia ,that will likely be by proxy and they want first to block the russian navy from having any port to refuel , also block russia from deploying bases in lybia so close to american bases in italy.  

go look at youtube video , 7 countries in 5 years.. where a 3 start former NATO general ,explained this in details, that the military have the order to take down 7 countries in 5 years in late 2001.
all those nations facing war today , he explained ,was to take down them before russia could modernize their military .to isolate russia economy from the world as much as possible ,this was the purpose of the arab spring. by taking down all pro russia governments from the world ,this was told by a former US general in a conference.

New war now in venezuela starting....using similar tactics of the syrian war ,look the news , americans are using their base in colombia to pass weapons to guerrillas that invade venezuela and kill their soldiers , the attrition war against venezuela officially began in 2021. and several venezuelan soldiers killed ,trying to push back this mercenaries paid by US and armed by them. and this is just another layer of pressure on them ,because the economy of venezuela is totally destroyed, their inflation is on the millions per US dollar the world biggest one by far and putin totally absent in the help of their allies. because venezuela is attacked for no other reason ,that is allied to Russia and not to US. So Putin irresponsible foreign policy of using as guinea pigs ,as meat shields other nations to minimize the pressure of US sanctions is criminal ,because Russia is pushing their interest at the expense of the blood and misery of millions around the world.

Imagine one day ,that you are very well armed ,and you choose to fight the drug cartels in any country ,lets say mexico ,and you declare war on mexican cartels openly, but then you get the "brilliant idea" to ask for help local community who live near the drug cartels with a place to sleep ,to rest ,when you are not fighting them at nights. what could go wrong ? that the house you seek refugee will be burned down and destroyed and killed that family in retaliation for helping you.

This IS the most irresponsible and crimminal policy of putin ,that encourage nations to
help Russia military with a base ,or with refueling ,and sell weapons to them to fight americans.
and later that country is destroyed by the west , and putin look to the side , is not our problem.
Venezuela , just like putin did to syria for the first years of the war (first 5 years) , if left alone to fight the american military proxy fighters ,invading venezuela now, and this same syrian scenario is repeating again in venezuela. a new endless war , all for what ? for venezuela choosing to ally with russia and not with US and this is why is punished. the anglo west wants to get rid of any nation
that Russia manage to influence ,specially in latin america ,that is close to US borders.

does it benefits Russia interest to deploy bases in latin america? off course it does..
but is completely wrong that once an nation offers to join putin calls for an world resistance against
the west ,that later putin abandons them to their own luck when attacked.  venezuela no longer have diesel for the the summer because nations are afraid of US sactions and what is putin doing? nothing.
abandoning its allies , nations that have listened putin's calls to join russia , is abandoning them to their own luck.. this is criminal what putin is doing is irresponsible.. i could expect this to happen from the anglozionist empire ,that is a terrorist organization but not from Russia. this put Russia at the same level of US , in terms of using nations   for their own benefit and that don't care later of the really bad consequence of their actions for other countries.  

If Putin plans to fight the west , he either stand with its allies ,with those who have chosen to trust in Russia calls for unity to join them versus the american regime ,or either he stop encouraging nations
anywhere to develop good relations with Russia ,and warn them that doing business with russia will automatically make them ,to become a target to hit by NATO and that they will be alone on their own.   And this is the reason why Russia have almost no allies in the world .Most Nations don't see Russia , as a reliable nation they can trust and so they prefer to avoid being part of this fight between NATO and Russia.

Vann7 wrote:The point here is that all this misery that US cause in the world , all the countries that get destroyed
either their economy or by military ways , this are all wars , proxy wars against Russia.

Not really.

Yes they are.

look all the conflicts americans have started ,for the only exclusive reason
to fight ,to weaken russia.

- soviets war on afhanistan , this was provoked by americans armed mercenaries and skirmishes on soviet borders.
-yugoeslavia war , same. war to kick soviet union from central europe.
egypt war vs israel ,same
-chechen war , same
-georgia war ,same
ukraine war ,same
syria war , same
lybia war , same , to kick russia influence from northern africa too.

basically US wants to kicks russia from any place ,that threatens the security of their nation for being close to it ,as it is latin america ,or their threatens the security of the navigation of their navies when they need to travel to europe, so basically ban russian navy from the mediterranean sea.. and hit any country that give russia a refueling post.  just like syria and lybia or algeria. which by the way was attacked to by the arab spring.

not all wars are against russia , (there are conflicts now they trying to provoke ,now against china in asia) but overwhelming majority of all world big conflicts are proxy wars of anglozionist powers against russia. because they fight russia directly since in a nuclear power ,then they doit by proxy.
is very simple their foreign policy ,to understand ,when you see is all about destroying russia, and now also china too.


US foreign policy is all about consolidation of power in the world, full spectrum dominance ,a world dictatorship and destroying all the nations that oppose their unilateral world. and the only ones refusing it , that can cause problems to them ,are Russia and china. so the west goes and provoke
conflicts in all zones in the world that Russia and china have major interest. is as easy as that , the western foreign policy.

I doubt the technology transfer to Brazil would have been that substantive.

then don't doubt , putin is really dumb and stupid.
i check everyday putin's media RT.com and it was there that was told putin was offering brazil
when a pro russian gov was in power , a Full transfer of technology to brasil of their su-57 ,with
everything ,the know how's to do it , so they build them in their own country , if they accept to buy a big number of stealth planes.  

the deal never happened ,because brazil say no, they backed down for fear of US sanctions ,on russia
defense industry. But had they accepted that deal , today brazil that is controlled by a puppet of the americans ,will have given away all the secrets of russia stealth planes. Putin is a very bad president, will never get tired of saying this. Only gorvashov and lenin was worse. those two hated russia. putin the only positive thing he have ,is that he is patriotic, but he is incredibly naive and fool ,and is destroying the nation with his backward passiveness and policies he promotes in the nation.

None of this wars , we see in the world , ukraine ,armenia ,syria ,venezuela ,georgia , afganistan ,iraq ,iran ,etc etc etc,so many to count, and those that soviet union had to do , none of this wars will have happened ever if Russia did not exist. this are proxy wars ,for the interest of the anglo west , to weaken russia influence in the world.

new wars they starting or will start , venezuela ,nicaragua ,cuba , transnistria , ukraine part 2 , armenia part 2. Syria part 2?  war with turkey? i honestly don't see how is Russia going to survive all this millions of proxy wars ,that nato can provoke against russia . they don't need to directly fight russia , all that the west needs is just keep repeating the ukraine and syrian scenarios until Russia bleed to death and economic conditions worsen significantly in Russia and civil unrest , then civil war again. then bye bye russia again.  will be split one more time ,with putin in power ,with his extremely passive and reactionary policies.[/quote]

They are not children ,but they alone can't fight the US naval firepower , so keep making absurd excuses for Putin avoiding his obligations with their closest allies. All this misery venezuela and syria

They got caught with their pants down... they didn't take basic security steps to protect their property... they didn't need a carrier escort... two dozen armed men with MANPADS and PKMs would have been all they needed... when the US Navy asked to board just reply no thanks and send a dozen men to the deck with Machine Guns and MANPADS... what are they going to do? Sink the boat? They have no right to. The only reason they went on board was because they left the door open and the keys in the ignition... that is not stealing... that is giving away your stuff.

The fact that it happened to more than one ship shows they don't care about it anyway... so what has this to do with Putin?

This is why i do agree with armenia , looking elsewhere , this is why i would encourage serbia to do the same. The opportunistic president putin and his government ,can't be trusted for anything , he is a fucking liar and a fucking coward , fooling the world into thinking Russia is a friend they can trust

What happened to Armenia happened because Armenia was looking to the west, their new president is clearly anti Russian... they lost parts of NK because the west did not support them. Looking west was stupid and short sighted and they have paid a price in real estate for that stupidity.

They will have elections soon enough and the people can use their votes to either get rid of this fool or to just bend over and ask Turkey and Azerbaijan to be gentle.

Blaming Putin for what happened in NK is classic Vann BS.

Just like blaming putin for what happened in Serbia and Kosovo is classic Vann... the moon landings were Putins fault too...

I like that he annoys you so much... tells me he is doing all the right things.

Are we going to have some BS non-discussion about how Putin has been caught with his pants down by all the brilliant western
sanctions? Really?

The sanctions imposed by the west often caused short term pain and inconvenience but in the big picture making their own ship propulsion systems instead of buying them from the Ukraine is actually good for Russia. New turbines, food, all sorts of things are now made in Russia, and that does not make Russia broken or weak or a mere regional power.... it makes her stronger and better able to sell to countries the US and the west also abuses...

Give Xi Jinping ,the full control of Russia ,and you will see how in time record ,he totally transform the nation from a potatoes and wheat exporter ,into the most powerful nation in the world in less than a decade .

It is not just about good leadership... putting Putin in charge of the US would not solve its problems any time soon either, but a lot of reforms are obvious and pretty straight forward...

indeed, but at the expense of the misery of millions of civilians in other nations.

Oh dear... Russian actions in Syria are pretty clear and have saved the general population from ISIS.

Where else to Russian actions effect anyone?

Crimea?

Not perfect but much better off as part of Russia than as part of the Ukraine.

Ukraine... that was Americans 5 billion dollar adventure into regime change... you had more to do with what happened there than Putin did.

don't you understand the the syrian war is in reality war against Russia its ultimate goal?

Syria completes the pathway of gas lines from Saudi Arabia or UAE or other US allies in the region through Iraq to get to Turkey to replace Russian gas going to Europe. They murdered millions of people and broke a country to sell gas. They destroyed a functioning peaceful society to make money and deny Russia a little bit of income.

But you think Putin is the bad guy.

Would say it is not fair to blame all Americans but they don't give a shit and are not interested in the truth... it is being done in their name.

look all the conflicts americans have started ,for the only exclusive reason
to fight ,to weaken russia.

And how is that turning out?

Russia is stronger than it has ever been and is respected and trusted in the region rather more than the US or Saudi Arabia despite their billions in bribes and monopoly on Media propaganda.

Russia was better able to negotiate deals with most factions in the region because there is trust and respect... the US needed Russia to get the Taleban to talk to the US and the US is about to screw the deal they made... not Russias fault.

US foreign policy is all about consolidation of power in the world, full spectrum dominance ,a world dictatorship and destroying all the nations that oppose their unilateral world. and the only ones refusing it , that can cause problems to them ,are Russia and china. so the west goes and provoke
conflicts in all zones in the world that Russia and china have major interest. is as easy as that , the western foreign policy.

That is very true but also exceptionally dangerous.... such actions could very easily run out of control and lead to some serious human kind ending conflicts.

Putin has skipped through the minefield rather effectively evading the mines and the west sees that and that is why they hate him... so that raises the obvious question is why do you agree with the western media... are you one of those western drones who admits that their government lies but believes those lies anyway.... all of Saddams WMDs weren't very effective in the end were they?

Putin never had a winning hand... we talk about HATO and the US, but lets be more realistic.... Putin is playing against 30+ of some of the richest and most corrupt and evil countries on the planet and they don't fuck around... they cheat and they steal and they murder... Putin is not just playing cards he is dodging bullets and poisoned darts and knives in the back.

He has played magnificently... the country he is playing for has moved forward from the brink of collapse to a country that is moving forward and developing and growing... Fuck America and Fuck the EU, Russia doesn't need them... their message has finally been received... they are not interested in a partnership with Russia and Russia does not want any other sort of relationship so Russia needs to look elsewhere... there is a huge world of countries out there that they can cooperate and trade with... the hundreds of billions of dollars trade with the EU is largely gone because of a mix of EU and responding Russian sanctions, but that doesn't mean money gone up in smoke... Russian production and capacity has grown enormously and now they sell rather more to China than they have ever sold before and there are plenty of other countries for them to sell their products and for them to buy from... this is a good thing.

Russia was not in a position 20 years ago to dump the US dollar or cut itself off from the EU, but by spreading the separation over 20 years Russia is now in a position where it really can be a viable rival to the west in terms of trade and production.

The vitriol from the west is that they probably are realising that now too.

then don't doubt , putin is really dumb and stupid.

But Brazil is that stupid... they elected a pro US president... he called himself the Trump of South America for goodness sake... what sort of technology should they have provided them?

the deal never happened ,because brazil say no, they backed down for fear of US sanctions ,on russia
defense industry. But had they accepted that deal , today brazil that is controlled by a puppet of the americans ,will have given away all the secrets of russia stealth planes.

The export version of the Su-57 wont be the same as the domestic model, and a big sale would allow income that could be used to develop next generation systems and pay for serious improvements in the domestic model.

They were also offering to sell to India... now I don't want to scare you, but the methods the US uses to get secrets varies from blackmail to bribes to all sorts of threats of violence.... such things can be applied to someone in Brazil, but equally someone in India or even Russia... do you honestly think not making any for export would keep its secrets safe forever?

None of this wars , we see in the world , ukraine ,armenia ,syria ,venezuela ,georgia , afganistan ,iraq ,iran ,etc etc etc,so many to count, and those that soviet union had to do , none of this wars will have happened ever if Russia did not exist. this are proxy wars ,for the interest of the anglo west , to weaken russia influence in the world.

That is just bullshit... Russia had no influence in most of those places, and it was the conflicts that started that gave them influence and power... before the west spent money on head chopping terrorists in Syria the Russians had a small repair port facility in Tartus barely big enough to handle a frigate or submarine.

Now they have a large military contingent there and are getting excellent experience and testing opportunities while getting to kill some rather bad people in the process.

Iran was no friend of Russia... but the west and the US in particular are forcing them to cooperate in lots of areas and the same could be said of China and Venezuela.

I would say western and US actions have created millions of deaths and misery and shifted a lot of countries in the direction of Russia and Iran and Egypt because those countries are trying to create peace and stability in conflict areas created by the west.

Even though this is not my initial view, it may well be that Putin knew that the move to regain Crimea would result in western panties
in a bunch which would undo Yeltsin's distortions of Russia's economy. Nothing makes for effective policy like forced compliance by
reality. Putin ain't no "strongman" or "tyrant" so he has to horse trade with special interests in Russia. If the majority of these special
interests are not interested in certain types of change (e.g. import substitution) then they will not allow the government to impose
such changes. That's politics and that's life.

But the western sanctions spasm is the perfect medicine. The sanctions can only be foisted on Putin indirectly by claiming he should
have surrendered Crimea to NATzO and the Banderites. So ultimately it is NATzO that takes the blame. But Putin and Russia gain
by getting the change they want. By any objective metric, Russia needed this change to undo Yeltsin's perverse legacy.

It was clear by 2004 already that NATzO was treating Russia as an enemy. The transformation of gangsters Khodorkovsky and Berezovsky
into saints was a strong indication. So Putin lost nothing in 2014 by recognizing Crimea's rights. Russia would have gained less than
nothing by throwing it to the wolves. Instead it got an additional economic boost out of returning Crimea to the fold.

Crimean integration and the sanctions strengthened Russia. It was necessary and Putin knew he had to allow it in order to light the fire under the ass of local governors and to undermine the liberal elite. It allowed for constitution change which was necessary. It allowed for Russia distancing itself from international courts that worked against it. It allowed Russia to create economic alternatives.

These were necessary changes.

If Putin had done nothing it would probably have been kicked out of the naval base at Sevastopol and NATO ships would be operating there right now, while the crap Kiev is pulling in the east of the Ukraine would probably be attempted in the Crimea I think with such a large percentage of the population identifying as being Russian would have made what they are doing in eastern Ukraine impossible.

Lets be honest and clear... it was not the case that Putin saw a chance to take Crimea and drag it into the Russian Federation.

Putin gave the people of the Crimea the peace and stability and time to vote themselves as to what their future would be... if they had voted to remain in the Ukraine he likely would have accepted their wishes too... this was not Putins decision... it was the decision of the people of the Crimea.

The fact that the west objects to that is pretty clear... they don't want the voting public to decide things... that is not acceptable... next they will want accountability from their politicians and an end to the endless wars the west seems to involve itself in that end up creating chaos in countries that have very little to do with the west.

I think the irrational backlash to essentially letting the people of the Crimea decide for themselves their own future instead of the big country using force and imposing its will and what suited its interests the best is a clear indication to Putin that the west is full of shit and cannot be trusted at any level.

Once you have accepted that basis then you move forward simply by selling them stuff, but any sanctions they impose you can use the sanctions you impose in return to improve your situation.

A Russian unilateral ban on cheap EU food exports to Russia would violate WTO rules and all sorts of other democracy and human rights rules the west have decided are important, but because they were a response to stupid EU rules they got away with it and the initial pain was real, but the longer term results is a thriving agriculture industry that can now expand into international trade markets... but it is not just Russian farmers... the makers of farm machinery in Russia are probably making a profit too which means their products can be tested and the money earned in sales can be invested in making them better... and the low value of the ruble means they can sell on the international market with a huge financial advantage... even more so when all the components of their equipment are paid for in rubles and are made in Russia and are not expensive items they used to have to import from South Korea or Taiwan and pay for in US dollars.

The cost to Russia has been further isolation from the west but that in itself has made Russia stronger and more independent and less reliant on the west when looking at new markets, because now they can sell food and farm machinery along with energy and military equipment... markets could be explored in partnership with countries like China, where China could supply the consumer goods and Russia the food and production equipment and machine tools and new technologies...

So Putin has prepared legal terrain so he can stay in power for 2 more terms.

What is this sick shit?
I really hope this is just a master decieval strategy where he makes everyone think he will run for another term and then all of the sudden reveals a strong and capable substitute. I hope but I doubt its the case. When you have lived for decades being one of the most powerful humans on earth it must be very, very hard to become an ordinary person again.

Nomad5891 wrote:So Putin has prepared legal terrain so he can stay in power for 2 more terms.

What is this sick shit?
I really hope this is just a master decieval strategy where he makes everyone think he will run for another term and then all of the sudden reveals a strong and capable substitute. I hope but I doubt its the case. When you have lived for decades being one of the most powerful humans on earth it must be very, very hard to become an ordinary person again.

There are no term limits in Canada and the UK.   You are trolling this forum with cheesy yanqui propaganda talking points.

The US oligarchy has no term limits. So these term limits are a tool to help it run its sock puppet theater. The choice
should be left to the voters and not to idiot parrots of retarded talking points.

kvs wrote:

Nomad5891 wrote:So Putin has prepared legal terrain so he can stay in power for 2 more terms.

What is this sick shit?
I really hope this is just a master decieval strategy where he makes everyone think he will run for another term and then all of the sudden reveals a strong and capable substitute. I hope but I doubt its the case. When you have lived for decades being one of the most powerful humans on earth it must be very, very hard to become an ordinary person again.

There are no term limits in Canada and the UK.   You are trolling this forum with cheesy yanqui propaganda talking points.

The US oligarchy has no term limits.   So these term limits are a tool to help it run its sock puppet theater.    The choice
should be left to the voters and not to idiot parrots of retarded talking points.

Oh it is you again.
If I understand correctly your angry rant is that you are OK with Putin ruling the country for 15 more years.
And you and me know voters dont decide anything in Russia (nor in USA as shown in last electiion there).
Napoleon said it some time ago - I care not who casts the votes of a nation, provided I can count them.

So either you are a spoiled, naive kiddo living in some che gevara/ communism rocks bubble or you are a western 5th coloumnist in desguise wanting Russia to have a 80 year old living, Biden style mummy as a president.

Ah, but you are in Canada!  Funny how most fierce Putin defenders on these forums live OUTSIDE of Russia.

kvs wrote:

Nomad5891 wrote:So Putin has prepared legal terrain so he can stay in power for 2 more terms.

What is this sick shit?
I really hope this is just a master decieval strategy where he makes everyone think he will run for another term and then all of the sudden reveals a strong and capable substitute. I hope but I doubt its the case. When you have lived for decades being one of the most powerful humans on earth it must be very, very hard to become an ordinary person again.

There are no term limits in Canada and the UK.   You are trolling this forum with cheesy yanqui propaganda talking points.

The US oligarchy has no term limits.   So these term limits are a tool to help it run its sock puppet theater.    The choice
should be left to the voters and not to idiot parrots of retarded talking points.

Add to that, Germany has no limits either.

I rather have a dictator who cares about the population than quasi "democracy" that doesn't exist.

Putin is necessary.

Isn't it amusing that Westerners, who are not Russians btw, who love to lecture about democracy, want to dictate who should hold office in Russia, and who shouldn't. Nothing screams democracy like a foreign (and hostile) unelected body dictating politics in your country....I hear Westerners want to dominate the medal podium in the field of 'mental-gymnastics' at the next Summer Olympics!

If I understand correctly your angry rant is that you are OK with Putin ruling the country for 15 more years.

You don't understand him correctly.

What he is OK with is allowing the Russian public to be allowed to choose him as their leader up to two more times if they want... and expect trillions of dollars of western cash to be poured into Navalny and other alternatives in a bid to undermine real democracy.

And you and me know voters dont decide anything in Russia (nor in USA as shown in last electiion there).
Napoleon said it some time ago - I care not who casts the votes of a nation, provided I can count them.

So if you believe all democratic systems are corrupt and that people with money and therefore power control everything then presidents and prime ministers become puppet figureheads so who cares how many times each one is eligible to stand?

So either you are a spoiled, naive kiddo living in some che gevara/ communism rocks bubble or you are a western 5th coloumnist in desguise wanting Russia to have a 80 year old living, Biden style mummy as a president.

Or he could be someone who thinks American politics suck dick and stupid limits on how many times a politician can stand for re election is a meaningless and dumb rule that does not apply in most other countries anyway so why is it pissing you off so much... except for the potential that a good honest and strong leader like Putin might continue to lead Russia for a period of time so western wolves will have to wait longer before they get a bite at the sheep because the current sheep dog is much too smart and fast and strong for them...

Ah, but you are in Canada! Funny how most fierce Putin defenders on these forums live OUTSIDE of Russia.

No surprise at all because outside of Russia is also where the most venomous and poisonous Anti Putin and also Anti Russian bullshit comes from... and it is no surprise they are linked.

If they didn't demonise him people in the west might start comparing their situation with that of Russia and realise he has been doing a much better job that any country in the west despite having to fight the west every step of the way... who was the west fighting that has led to infrastructure and foreign debt situations most western countries face?

I rather have a dictator who cares about the population than quasi "democracy" that doesn't exist.

Putin is necessary.

Except that Putin is not a dictator... he gets elected every time.

Isn't it amusing that Westerners, who are not Russians btw, who love to lecture about democracy, want to dictate who should hold office in Russia, and who shouldn't. Nothing screams democracy like a foreign (and hostile) unelected body dictating politics in your country....I hear Westerners want to dominate the medal podium in the field of 'mental-gymnastics' at the next Summer Olympics!

When there is an election anywhere, western reporters always ask politicians around the world who they want to see get elected and HATO and US and the general west often express opinions one way or the other. The only politician I have ever seen who says it is not for him to say that it is up to the people is Putin.

He is the only democratic leader in office today... no wonder the west wants him gone.

All these propagandists do is to wildly fantasize about some supposed decisions they would have taken more wisely than Putin. Of course they will be very careful to remain well outside of the realm of facts and stick to speculation about the past, since trying to predict the future (the essence of scientific methodology) will just expose them as total frauds. This they do, in a remarkable display of gall, against the background of a government that has:

> taken a rotting shell of a country and turned it into a superpower
> multiplied the GPD and restored the strategic sectors of the economy
> increased the life expectancy
> won every election by a landslide
> defeated the West in every major confrontation to the point that even our MSM spends its time bitching about Putin's "geopolitical judo" and other musings to explain their failures

When they have engaged in actual predictions, like announcing the ever impending "regime collapse", they have been proven to be full of shit. So this constant BS about how they would have done it so much better, or how government has no merit for anything good but is guilty of everything bad is undisguised shilling. If you have any useful theory to teach us, prove it by making accurate predictions about the future and if not, well, for the sake of intellectual integrity you should shut the fuck up.

I'll one up on that - they never explain how they would do that.

miketheterrible wrote:I'll one up on that - they never explain how they would do that.

For them it is always obvious what needed to be done and only Putin and his lackeys were too blind or spineless to act properly, amongst sore commies / fake patriots this is the tune almost invariably. Making demagogy and taking cheap shots after the events is all they know, in the real world they keep biting the dust while Russia keeps rising, and prospects are not better for them in the future. In essence they are nothing but the sore losers any society has, disguising their bitterness and failure with an ideological veneer.