Russia Defence Forum

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


+106
lyle6
The_Observer
slasher
The-thing-next-door
Kiko
TMA1
PhSt
Backman
lancelot
Maximmmm
Rodion_Romanovic
Big_Gazza
Boshoed
owais.usmani
Arrow
jaguar_br
Ivanov673
archangelski
hoom
LMFS
Hole
dino00
Peŕrier
KomissarBojanchev
Cheetah
AMCXXL
mnztr
SeigSoloyvov
Isos
miketheterrible
Azi
Arctic_Fox
Tsavo Lion
Cyberspec
GunshipDemocracy
AK-Rex
gaurav
Singular_Transform
KiloGolf
eehnie
kopyo-21
VladimirSahin
max steel
d_taddei2
Project Canada
OminousSpudd
Berkut
Morpheus Eberhardt
x_54_u43
KoTeMoRe
ult
JohninMK
jhelb
Mike E
mack8
Odin of Ossetia
nemrod
PapaDragon
wilhelm
Teshub
Radium
sepheronx
Rmf
higurashihougi
kvs
EKS
mutantsushi
Book.
victor1985
Svyatoslavich
collegeboy16
franco
Manov
medo
magnumcromagnon
AbsoluteZero
Honesroc
Dorfmeister
George1
coolieno99
Rpg type 7v
flamming_python
Giulio
Vann7
a89
eridan
Mindstorm
spotter
macedonian
zg18
Werewolf
Sujoy
Firebird
Russian Patriot
SOC
TheArmenian
TR1
Hoof
nightcrawler
Austin
USAF
solo.13mmfmj
Viktor
Stealthflanker
GarryB
Admin
110 posters

    Tu-160 "White Swan"

    higurashihougi
    higurashihougi


    Posts : 3421
    Points : 3508
    Join date : 2014-08-13
    Location : A small and cutie S-shaped land.

    Tu-160 "White Swan" - Page 12 Empty Re: Tu-160 "White Swan"

    Post  higurashihougi Wed Jun 17, 2015 12:51 pm

    GarryB wrote:They could convert the Tu-23M3 into a long range interceptor, with reinstalled inflight refuelling, huge AESA, and conformal positions for R-37Ms all over its belly....Twisted Evil

    Can we/Do we need to increase its max speed and maneuverability like the MiG-25/31 ?
    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 40586
    Points : 41088
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Tu-160 "White Swan" - Page 12 Empty Re: Tu-160 "White Swan"

    Post  GarryB Thu Jun 18, 2015 6:51 am

    An interceptor version of the Tu-22M3 would certainly not be faster than a MiG-31, but should be able to operate over a radius of about 2,000km in its existing form without modification.

    If you add inflight refuelling and new engines then range and speed could be increased.
    George1
    George1


    Posts : 18528
    Points : 19033
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Tu-160 "White Swan" - Page 12 Empty Re: Tu-160 "White Swan"

    Post  George1 Sat Jun 20, 2015 2:05 am

    KRET: Tu-160 and Tu-95 will be able to build a route without satellite signals
    GunshipDemocracy
    GunshipDemocracy


    Posts : 6174
    Points : 6194
    Join date : 2015-05-17
    Location : fishin on Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada

    Tu-160 "White Swan" - Page 12 Empty Re: Tu-160 "White Swan"

    Post  GunshipDemocracy Mon Jun 29, 2015 9:02 pm

    KRET: long-range aviation of Russia will be able to determine the coordinates using astronavigation

    РИА Новости http://ria.ru/defense_safety/20150629/1101289384.html

    MOSCOW, June 29 - RIA Novosti. Russia's largest holding company in the electronic industry "Concern Radio-electronic technology" (KRET, is a "Rostec") developed for the Russian long-range aviation aircraft, including strategic bombers, Tu-160 missile, celestial navigation system which allows to determine the coordinates of the aircraft on the basis of data on the position of stars, said on Monday, RIA Novosti press-service KRET.

    "KRET developed for the Russian Air Force long-range aviation, including Tu-160, celestial navigation system ANS-2009, allowing to accurately determine the coordinates of the aircraft on the basis of data on the position of the stars. Astronavigation system development group is to determine the velocity and position of the object with accuracy, independent of the duration of the flight, "- reported in KRET.

    At the heart of the device is "calculating coordinates of an object, measured relative positions of the stars."
    "On the basis of this information, the calculating unit, interface and control (BVSK) defines the geographical coordinates and the true course of the object", - said the press service.

    According to the advisor of the Deputy Director General KRET Vladimir Mikheev, this method is "the most reliable in combat when navigation satellite systems can be disabled by the enemy."

    "ANS-2009 can be installed on a plane with the strapdown inertial navigation system (SINS), do not require an external guidance or signals coming from outside," - said Mikheyev, whose words the press service.

    According to Mikheev, "the integration of the various on-board navigation devices (SINS, ANS, SNA, etc.) to create a fully autonomous navigation system that is able to obtain precise coordinates due to correction."

    "The technical and technological backlog, resulting in the progress of the system ANS-2009 will be used in the PAK DA" - the concern.

    The Tu-160 - a supersonic strategic bomber-rocket carrier with variable sweep wing, designed by Tupolev in the 1970s - 1980s. It is in service since 1987. It is the largest and most powerful in the history of military aviation supersonic aircraft with variable geometry wing, as well as the heaviest combat aircraft in the world, with the highest among the bombers maximum takeoff weight. Among the pilots was nicknamed the "White Swan".

    In April, Defense Minister, Army General Sergei Shoigu said that "today it is necessary to start solving problems not only for the maintenance of good order and modernization of the aircraft fleet of long-range aircraft, but also for the reproduction of the Tu-160 missile." According to Shoigu, the Tu-160 - "a unique machine ahead of time for a few decades and is still not fully utilized inherent in it structural opportunities."

    "Concern Radio-electronic technology" (KRET) - Russia's largest holding company in the electronic industry, established in 2009, is part of the state corporation "Rostec." Main activities: development and production of complex systems and avionics for civil and military aircraft, radar airborne, the state identification, electronic warfare systems, instrumentation for various applications, electrical connectors, connectors and cable assemblies.

    George1 wrote:KRET: Tu-160 and Tu-95 will be able to build a route without satellite signals

    saga continues Smile
    PapaDragon
    PapaDragon


    Posts : 13483
    Points : 13523
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Tu-160 "White Swan" - Page 12 Empty Re: Tu-160 "White Swan"

    Post  PapaDragon Wed Jul 01, 2015 7:44 pm

    Looks like Blackjacks will be officially back in production thumbsup

    http://www.militarynews.ru/story.asp?rid=1&nid=381608

    Defense Ministry: it is planned to restore the production of "strategy" of the Tu-160, but the other "stuffing" and weapons systems

    *** Tu-160m2 is virtually new aircraft, 2.5 times superior to the efficiency of its predecessor Novgorod. July 1. Interfax - The Russian Defense Ministry is planning to resume production of the strategic missile-carrying bomber Tu-160 in the version of the Tu-160m2, he told journalists on Wednesday, Deputy Defense Minister of Russia Yuri Borisov. "The plans of the Ministry of Defence is to restore production of strategic bombers Tu-160. It is not restoration of one to one, because of the Tu-160, which we have today in service, this airplane design 80s, which, fortunately, in its flight characteristics overstepped the time. He's now has the best characteristics. The aircraft, about which we are talking about, he probably will be called Tu-160m2, will be virtually new aircraft, "- said Yu.Borisov. According to Deputy Minister of Defense, the fuselage and performance characteristics remain, but the "stuffing" and the system will change dramatically weapons . "On the composition of avionics, the composition of weapons that he will be, it will be a brand new airplane, and it will increase the combat effectiveness of not less than 2.5 times compared to the current", - said Yu.Borisov. Tu-160 (by Western classification - "Black Jack") - supersonic strategic missile-bomber with variable sweep wing, is designed Tupolev and is the largest in aviation history supersonic aircraft. Able to carry on board 12 cruise missiles, all weapons placed inside the fuselage. Bomber is designed to defeat nuclear and conventional weapons most important goals. Each aircraft is equipped with four engines NK-32. Among the Russian pilots was nicknamed the "White Swan". Since 1984, the serial production of the aircraft. The decision on the termination of serial production of Tu-160 was adopted in January 1992. By the time it was produced 35 aircraft. In the same year, Russia unilaterally stopped flights of strategic aviation in remote regions. By the beginning of 2001, according to the SALT-2 treaty, Russia was in battle formation 15 Tu-160, of which six were officially armed missile strategic cruise missiles. July 5, 2006 at the Air Force Russia adopted a modernized Tu-160. August 17, 2007 Russia resumed flights of strategic aviation in remote areas on a regular basis. April 28, 2008 transferred to the Air Force 16th "White Swan". The length of the aircraft is 54.1 meters, height - 13.1 meters, the wing area 232 square meters. meter. The crew of four. Practical flight range of 14 thousand. Km.
    kvs
    kvs


    Posts : 15882
    Points : 16017
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Turdope's Kanada

    Tu-160 "White Swan" - Page 12 Empty Re: Tu-160 "White Swan"

    Post  kvs Thu Jul 02, 2015 5:07 am

    victor1985 wrote:Can the burned fuel smoke to be use as a kind of propulsion?

    The energy density it has is too small to bother and in fact any attempt to confine it and extract more "value"
    out of it would undermine the performance of the engines producing the smoke. A better use of research
    time would be to try to improve the combustion efficiency and overall design of the jet engines.
    max steel
    max steel


    Posts : 2930
    Points : 2955
    Join date : 2015-02-12
    Location : South Pole

    Tu-160 "White Swan" - Page 12 Empty Re: Tu-160 "White Swan"

    Post  max steel Fri Jul 03, 2015 9:10 pm

    Upgrade of Tu-160 will be completed in 2019


    Upgrade of Tu-160 strategic bomber will be completed in 2019, TASS reports with reference to Director of Design Center of Kazan Aviation Plant named after S.P. Gorbunov, Boris Naishuler. The plant is carrying out the upgrade of these jets.

    The first stage of the upgrade has already been completed; the second stage connected with replacement of almost all the avionics should be completed in 2019, the source said.

    According to him, the upgrade was started with replacing equipment installed on the jets during Soviet era. «The aircraft is fitted with equipment manufactured in former republics of USSR. The upgrade is aimed at replacing all this equipment, including navigation and communication systems, with Russian-produced analogues,» Naishuler explained.

    Today Russian air forces are operating around 15 Tu-160 bombers and the upgrade of these jets announced in 2012 has already been started. It was also reported that Tu-160 jets would be fitted with upgraded NK-32 engines; the pilot batch should be delivered to the armed forces in late 2016.

    In late April Russian Minister of Defense Sergey Shoygu ordered to consider the possibilities for resuming mass production of Tu-160 at the Kazan-based enterprise.
    nemrod
    nemrod


    Posts : 839
    Points : 1333
    Join date : 2012-09-11
    Age : 59

    Tu-160 "White Swan" - Page 12 Empty Russian Warplanes Sighted Off US Coast TWICE on 4th of July

    Post  nemrod Wed Jul 08, 2015 12:48 pm

    I hesitated to post this topic under SU-PAK FA news thread, or Nato US thread, as it is not a news about SU-PAK FA new capacities, but a geopolitical, and military exercise. If you think this topic is not in appropriate area, feel free to move it. As you could notice, there is an error, US did not scramble F-20, but rather F-22. This could be the first confrontation between SU-PAK FA and F-22  Very Happy

    http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015/07/breaking-russian-warplanes-spotted-off-us-coast-twice-on-4th-of-july/


    Russian warplanes were sited off the coast of Alaska and California on the 4th of July.
    russia stealth fighter
    Russian Stealth Fighter

    The warplanes were probing US defenses twice. US F15s and F20s were forced to scramble as a result of the incidents.

    This came the same day Russian President Vladimir Putin called Barack Obama to wish him a happy Independence Day.




    Viktor
    Viktor


    Posts : 5796
    Points : 6429
    Join date : 2009-08-25
    Age : 44
    Location : Croatia

    Tu-160 "White Swan" - Page 12 Empty Re: Tu-160 "White Swan"

    Post  Viktor Thu Jul 09, 2015 9:05 pm

    Nice thumbsup

    Russian Defense Ministry: work on the reproduction of the Tu-160 started
    George1
    George1


    Posts : 18528
    Points : 19033
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Tu-160 "White Swan" - Page 12 Empty Re: Tu-160 "White Swan"

    Post  George1 Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:11 pm

    At least 50 new Tu-160M bombers will be delivered to Russian air forces
    PapaDragon
    PapaDragon


    Posts : 13483
    Points : 13523
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Tu-160 "White Swan" - Page 12 Empty Re: Tu-160 "White Swan"

    Post  PapaDragon Fri Jul 17, 2015 3:41 pm

    ''Serial production of Russia's Tupolev Tu-160M2 bomber to begin in 2023 — Defense Ministry
    The implementation of the next-generation strategic bomber design project may be postponed''

    http://tass.ru/en/russia/809303
    PapaDragon
    PapaDragon


    Posts : 13483
    Points : 13523
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Tu-160 "White Swan" - Page 12 Empty Re: Tu-160 "White Swan"

    Post  PapaDragon Fri Jul 17, 2015 3:56 pm

    ''Several types of missiles being developed for Russia's Tupolev Tu-160M2 bombers — ministry''

    http://tass.ru/en/russia/809321
    George1
    George1


    Posts : 18528
    Points : 19033
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Tu-160 "White Swan" - Page 12 Empty Re: Tu-160 "White Swan"

    Post  George1 Fri Jul 17, 2015 5:15 pm

    Defense Ministry: range of Tu-160 will increase 1,000 kilometers

    The Defense Ministry plans to obtain three Tu-160m2 annually since 2023
    Book.
    Book.


    Posts : 692
    Points : 745
    Join date : 2015-05-08
    Location : Oregon, USA

    Tu-160 "White Swan" - Page 12 Empty Re: Tu-160 "White Swan"

    Post  Book. Fri Jul 17, 2015 5:56 pm

    Odin of Ossetia wrote:

    In the last few weeks seven Russian military planes have crashed, including two Tupolev heavy bombers, which are part of Russia's air fleet of the nuclear bomb carriers.

    That many planes in such a short period of time? What is going on?

    I think fly hard OT

    Rip pilot prepare the nato

    US no differ crash f16 f18 other week

    Odin of Ossetia
    Odin of Ossetia


    Posts : 948
    Points : 1035
    Join date : 2015-07-03

    Tu-160 "White Swan" - Page 12 Empty Re: Tu-160 "White Swan"

    Post  Odin of Ossetia Fri Jul 17, 2015 8:31 pm


    Seven crashes as opposed to one, and you say there is no difference?


    No
    mack8
    mack8


    Posts : 1039
    Points : 1093
    Join date : 2013-08-02

    Tu-160 "White Swan" - Page 12 Empty Re: Tu-160 "White Swan"

    Post  mack8 Fri Jul 17, 2015 11:30 pm

    Regarding Tu-160M2, that si still 8 years away, which is almost similar to the initial PAK-DA timeline. I wonder what is happening here, did the intelligence perhaps found out that the US LRS-B will be supersonic (there are rumours to that effect around apparently), so Tu-160M2 would be a stopgap until a radically new supersonic PAK-DA project will be designed and enter service closer to 2030?
    avatar
    Svyatoslavich


    Posts : 399
    Points : 400
    Join date : 2015-04-22
    Location : Buenos Aires

    Tu-160 "White Swan" - Page 12 Empty Re: Tu-160 "White Swan"

    Post  Svyatoslavich Fri Jul 17, 2015 11:32 pm

    mack8 wrote:Regarding Tu-160M2, that si still 8 years away, which is almost similar to the initial PAK-DA timeline. I wonder what is happening here, did the intelligence perhaps found out that the US LRS-B will be supersonic (there are rumours to that effect around apparently), so Tu-160M2 would be a stopgap until a radically new supersonic PAK-DA project will be designed and enter service closer to 2030?
    I think it is more likely they are delaying the PAK DA project to save money. Though restoring Tu-160 production won't be cheap.
    avatar
    wilhelm


    Posts : 348
    Points : 352
    Join date : 2014-12-09

    Tu-160 "White Swan" - Page 12 Empty Re: Tu-160 "White Swan"

    Post  wilhelm Sat Jul 18, 2015 12:44 am

    Perhaps the delay is indeed also to see which direction the opposition goes in?
    flamming_python
    flamming_python


    Posts : 9574
    Points : 9632
    Join date : 2012-01-30

    Tu-160 "White Swan" - Page 12 Empty Re: Tu-160 "White Swan"

    Post  flamming_python Sat Jul 18, 2015 1:21 am

    Odin of Ossetia wrote:
    Seven crashes as opposed to one, and you say there is no difference?


    No

    AFAIK the US had more crashes since the start of 2015 than Russia had; something like 10-11.
    flamming_python
    flamming_python


    Posts : 9574
    Points : 9632
    Join date : 2012-01-30

    Tu-160 "White Swan" - Page 12 Empty Re: Tu-160 "White Swan"

    Post  flamming_python Sat Jul 18, 2015 1:23 am

    PapaDragon wrote:''Serial production of Russia's Tupolev Tu-160M2 bomber to begin in 2023 — Defense Ministry
    The implementation of the next-generation strategic bomber design project may be postponed''

    http://tass.ru/en/russia/809303

    Not postponed, just delayed by a bit - they are still planning on going ahead with it.
    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 40586
    Points : 41088
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Tu-160 "White Swan" - Page 12 Empty Re: Tu-160 "White Swan"

    Post  GarryB Sat Jul 18, 2015 12:04 pm

    15-16 of any large aircraft is a small fleet which limits its potential and increases costs.

    Having 100-150 Tu-160s and they probably could have retired the Tu-95MS completely, but building that many would be rather too expensive too.

    The Bears are good for another 10-15 years at least and are perfectly fine for the role they are intended for.

    A larger fleet of Blackjacks will make them rather more effective and new engines will likely improve performance significantly and reduce the urgency for PAK DA.

    Originally the early claims regarding PAK DA was a hypersonic super bomber... which would have been enormously expensive to make and operate... hopefully putting the Blackjack back into production means the introduction of the PAK DA can be delayed and its design parameters could be made a little more ambitious.

    rather than a subsonic flying wing... I would like to see a supersonic super cruising flying wing with horizontal tail and no vertical tail surface to reduce drag and RCS.

    Using new generation engines with thrust vectoring to negate the need for vertical fins and perhaps allow supersonic flight without AB would greatly increase range performance and vastly improve the time to flight distance.

    As an example the Blackjack would fly most of the first part of its flight at subsonic speeds and only fly supersonically for perhaps a 2,000km portion near the target to evade interception... so the entire 12,000km odd range flight would still take 6-8 hours.... whereas a flying wing moving at mach 1.6 all the way could dramatically reduce that flight time without burning an enormous amount of fuel.

    More importantly if the engines are based on the Blackjacks engines then any improvements can be retrofitted to the Blackjack to perhaps allow supercruising performance too... which should increase supersonic flight range.

    Delaying production of the Blackjacks to 2023 is interesting... I am wondering if they are planning to revise the aircrafts design and make it a fixed wing aircraft with a more modern and sophisticated wing shape... it would reduce weight and complication...
    PapaDragon
    PapaDragon


    Posts : 13483
    Points : 13523
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Tu-160 "White Swan" - Page 12 Empty Re: Tu-160 "White Swan"

    Post  PapaDragon Sat Jul 18, 2015 2:41 pm


    ''Russia's upgraded Tu-160M2 missile carriers to be in service at least 40 years — official''

    http://tass.ru/en/russia/809338
    avatar
    Austin


    Posts : 7617
    Points : 8014
    Join date : 2010-05-08
    Location : India

    Tu-160 "White Swan" - Page 12 Empty Re: Tu-160 "White Swan"

    Post  Austin Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:13 pm

    B-2 Spirit of Innovation

    http://www.northropgrumman.com/Capabilities/B2SpiritBomber/Documents/pageDocuments/B-2-Spirit-of-Innovation.pdf
    franco
    franco


    Posts : 7060
    Points : 7086
    Join date : 2010-08-18

    Tu-160 "White Swan" - Page 12 Empty Re: Tu-160 "White Swan"

    Post  franco Sat Jul 18, 2015 11:21 pm

    From various sources, Tu-160M2 will;
    - have an increase in range of 1,000 kms
    - basically same frame but all new interior
    - production of 3 per year starting in 2023
    - will be in operations into the 2060's
    JohninMK
    JohninMK


    Posts : 15674
    Points : 15815
    Join date : 2015-06-16
    Location : England

    Tu-160 "White Swan" - Page 12 Empty Re: Tu-160 "White Swan"

    Post  JohninMK Sun Jul 19, 2015 12:09 am

    GarryB wrote:15-16 of any large aircraft is a small fleet which limits its potential and increases costs.

    Having 100-150 Tu-160s and they probably could have retired the Tu-95MS completely, but building that many would be rather too expensive too.

    The Bears are good for another 10-15 years at least and are perfectly fine for the role they are intended for.

    A larger fleet of Blackjacks will make them rather more effective and new engines will likely improve performance significantly and reduce the urgency for PAK DA.

    Originally the early claims regarding PAK DA was a hypersonic super bomber... which would have been enormously expensive to make and operate... hopefully putting the Blackjack back into production means the introduction of the PAK DA can be delayed and its design parameters could be made a little more ambitious.

    rather than a subsonic flying wing... I would like to see a supersonic super cruising flying wing with horizontal tail and no vertical tail surface to reduce drag and RCS.

    Using new generation engines with thrust vectoring to negate the need for vertical fins and perhaps allow supersonic flight without AB would greatly increase range performance and vastly improve the time to flight distance.

    As an example the Blackjack would fly most of the first part of its flight at subsonic speeds and only fly supersonically for perhaps a 2,000km portion near the target to evade interception... so the entire 12,000km odd range flight would still take 6-8 hours.... whereas a flying wing moving at mach 1.6 all the way could dramatically reduce that flight time without burning an enormous amount of fuel.

    More importantly if the engines are based on the Blackjacks engines then any improvements can be retrofitted to the Blackjack to perhaps allow supercruising performance too... which should increase supersonic flight range.

    Delaying production of the Blackjacks to 2023 is interesting... I am wondering if they are planning to revise the aircrafts design and make it a fixed wing aircraft with a more modern and sophisticated wing shape... it would reduce weight and complication...
    I would have thought that one objective in talking in public about future plans is to keep the pressure on the US until they commit to the Next Generation Bomber and tie up another few $10Billions that might be better spent elsewhere.

    Maybe perhaps someone in the MoD is having a strategic rethink and starting to join the dots surrounding the development of smaller, smarter, faster, longer range cruise missiles. Will there actually be a need any more than a few Tu-160s delivering long range missiles in 10 years time? By then something like an Il-76 configured as a missile truck could tip a pack of missiles out the back teamed with a long range stealth drone, say like a stealthier Global Hawk or even a stealth fighter, providing mid course and target guidance if necessary, that is if the missiles have not developed more advanced 'hunting pack' features, like sending out 'scouts', by then.

    There is no need to follow the US as the strategic needs of the two countries are different. Russia does not need to project military power over the whole globe, that is bomb anywhere on earth with an 'earthquake' bomb, it just needs to defend itself and neutralise the threats that will, given its geography, be quite close.

    With more limited finances Russia has to spend smarter. One way of doing this is to use the country's brainpower in advanced R&D working on a wide range of very plausible projects, taking many to prototype stage. This puts the fear of falling behind into the US making them respond and when they do Russia pulls another hat out of the bag. This is in a way forcing the US to play again the game it honed to perfection in the 50 years after WW11, where the US MIC consumed resources and grew due to often mythical Russian threats, only this time the threats will be factually based. Only now the US is so heavily in debt, compared to back then, that they might have real problems. I call it the 'reverse Reagan' strategy forcing the US rather than Russia to spend more.

    Sponsored content


    Tu-160 "White Swan" - Page 12 Empty Re: Tu-160 "White Swan"

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Tue Nov 26, 2024 3:36 am