Cuban Missile Crisis

GarryB wrote:

Remember Cuban Crisis? Russians and Americans pulled back their missiles but Russians agreed to keep American missiles being pulled back a secret because Americans demanded it

They lost that one and afterwards Americans knew they Russians are scared of them

First of all I think you will find that was the Soviets and not the Russians.

Second the whole situation was created by US nuclear tipped Jupiter missiles in Turkey was enormously destabilising... the action by the Soviets was reciprocal and balanced and it was the Americans who flipped out and acted all irrational.

The result was both parties removed their missiles, which is clearly a success for the Soviet Union... US demands to keep their withdrawal secret just proves it was a huge step down from the Americans... having jupiter missiles in Turkey ready to launch at the Soviet Union was an enormous advantage that they ended up having to give up completely... the Americans wanted it kept secret because it was basically totally humiliating for them... they blinked.... even at a time when they knew the missile gap and the bomber gap did exist but was in their favour by a wide margin... and they still caved like little girls.

We are lucky they didn't follow the generals advice and try a landing because in addition to IRBMs... I seem to remember they were SS-5 Serbs or something, but they had hundreds of tactical nuclear armed FROG rockets that would have obliterated any naval force that tried to land there... relatively small dirty nukes too...

The local EU-Serb is just spewing the NATO propaganda he is indoctrinated with. According to basically all coverage of the Cuban
missile crisis the "Russians blinked first". Even the few documentaries that even mention the US missiles in Turkey actually call them
old and obsolete! Get f*cked, seriously? We are talking about 1962 and US rockets (e.g. Vanguard) were still exploding on the
launch pad in 1958. Recall that the R7 ICBM was the Soyuz that launched Gagarin into orbit. How the f*ck can a US MRBM not more
than 6 years of age be obsolete. We still have 1970s missiles in service today in the US and Russia. Obviously such drivel is designed
to divert the attention of feeble minds who then focus on the "Russian" withdrawal of non-deployed missiles as some sort of epic fail.
In the real world it was the yanquis who epically failed with their secret deployment of IRBMs along the border of the USSR.

BTW, I know that the Jupiter missiles were designed in 1954. The missiles in Turkey would still not have been obsolete in 1962 even if
they had been built in 1954. But they were actually built several years later. The NATO drone cannot quibble his way out of this one.

Also, check out:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jupiter_(disambiguation)

Notice the lack of any reference to

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PGM-19_Jupiter

And NATO wannabe saps come here to wave their fingers in our faces.

kvs wrote:......The local EU-Serb is just spewing the NATO propaganda he is indoctrinated with.  ...

How is weather in Canada?

And how is your application for Russian visa going?

Moving soon?  

kvs wrote:......According to basically all coverage of the Cuban missile crisis the "Russians blinked first". ....... 

Russians publicly withdrew their missiles from Cuba

Americans withdrew theirs from Turkey it in secret as part of the deal

It was a defeat and humiliation which led to palace coup in Kremlin soon afterwards

So yeah, Russians not only blinked first but bent over as well

I should remind people that Kennedy was assassinated in 1963. Funny timing that. Looks like a real coup to me and not the
par for the course bureaucratic reshuffling in the USSR.

GarryB wrote:At university I had a lecturer that was in the CIA and he mentioned a few potential reasons for Kennedys death... but the most likely was a combination of the mob and the CIA... the mob wanted their casinos and hotels in cuba back because it made a lot of money for them, and the CIA wanted payback for the Bay of Pigs fiasco... it is my understanding that they lose a few agents in that incident.

Also important was that Kennedy used mob muscle and support to get in to power and then went hard on organised crime once in office which they also saw as a betrayal...

JFK was the luckiest president they ever had... he died before they found out what a  he really was so JFK became jesus f'ing christ...

You are mentioning the routine spin that I have seen in every western documentary on the subject. Cops die routinely in the line of service. There are no
assassinations "in revenge". The Bay of Pigs was not a fiasco because of JFK. The CIA failed all by itself. So killing JKF would hardly be so urgent and immediate.
As for the mob, what exactly did Kennedy do that would take them way outside their safety zone of operations? The FBI was hardly rooting out the mob in the
USA as was evident by its activity long after JFK's death.

The response of JFK to the "Soviet threat" is the real story and actually overlaps the Bay of Pigs. The US elites wanted a full blown invasion of Cuba because
they drink their own piss-fermented koolaid and basically had no clue about the power of the USSR. JFK was making peace overtures to the USSR instead
of acting like the USA was a hyperpower, that made him into a Trump in the eyes of modern day Democraps. Hillary wanted to fight Russia in Syria. Trump
knows better and has not even tried. So the Bay of Pigs was all about internal US elite ambitions and their view that JKF was soft on the USSR. These
turds did not get anything after they murdered JFK but they a psychopaths and sociopaths so it is not like they would show remorse or something.

By contrast, the "palace coup" in the USSR removed the maggot known as Khruschev. Which is probably why the testicles of the US shrank and there
was no invasion of Cuba and redeployment of the secret IRBMs back to Turkey after JFKs assassination. The US elites need a traitor in the "enemy" (aka victim)
camp to lubricate their victories.

Kennedy was the first and only Irish Catholic president - the son of an Irish mobster who made his money bootlegging and in insider trading. He was hated by LBJ and the Dulles brothers and was a threat to both. He actually lost the 1960 election to Richard Nixon absent of mob vote fraud in Chicago. His brother Robert was such an ingrate that he immediately began persecuting the very mobsters who had elected him (with Frank Sinatra as the conduit by the way).

In addition, Kennedy was a sex addict and was having affairs both with Sam Giancanna's mistress and Cord Meyer's (CIA official) wife. He also was tripping on acid and using marijuana which was known to both the FBI and CIA.

JFK's mind expansion started to get to him and be began mentioning some silly ideas like ending the Cold War, cutting the CIA into pieces, and moving control of US monetary policy from the Fed to the Treasury.

Not to difficult to imagine the Deep State of the time getting together and deciding that Kennedy was a threat to national security and had to go. There actually is a clip of H.W. Bush (CIA) involuntarily smirking while mentioning that JFK has been killed "by a lone gunman" at Ford's funeral.

Both Krushchev removal and Kennedy assasination caused by MIC because both wanted to reduce arms expenditure. In case of USSR just watch the massive military buil up during Brezhnev's era

George1 wrote:Both Krushchev removal and Kennedy assasination caused by MIC because both wanted to reduce arms expenditure. In case of USSR just watch the massive military buil up during Brezhnev's era

The USSR elites did not depend on MIC rackets for their status. So the analogy with the USA is totally wrong. For the USSR the arms race was a burden because
of stupid planners who managed to waste resources like building thousands of tanks that would never be used. But Brezhnev's build up did force the USA to
the negotiation table giving us ABM treaty, SALT, START and INF treaty (even if Gorbie sold out). As proven by the breaking of the ABM, INF and now START
the US is not interested in treaties limiting its ambitions. For some bizarre reason they are now cocky and think they have an advantage against Russia so
out go the treaties.

Brezhenev was actually good for the USSR and the world. Stagnation is not his fault, it was a systemic flaw of command economics and Gosplan that did
not properly account for human psychology (both workers and nomenklatura).

mnztr wrote:Nah the Russian Navy is far too disciplined for that. They showed incredible discipline during the Cuban missile crisis and as a result we are all stilll here today.

Are you suggesting that if any of the Russian vessels -- or even aircraft -- took fire of any kind from that British destroyer that they wouldn't retaliate?

mnztr wrote:Nah the Russian Navy is far too disciplined for that. They showed incredible discipline during the Cuban missile crisis and as a result we are all stilll here today.

You mean back when they were chased out of Cuba with tails between their legs and being forced to agree to never even mention the fact that USA was also removing Jupiter missiles from Turkey?

The first major victory of USA in the Cold War and event that proven to USA and the world (USSR included) beyond the shadow of a doubt that USA will be triumphant?

That Cuban missile crisis?

I wouldn't brag about it...

PapaDragon wrote:

mnztr wrote:Nah the Russian Navy is far too disciplined for that. They showed incredible discipline during the Cuban missile crisis and as a result we are all stilll here today.

You mean back when they were chased out of Cuba with tails between their legs and being forced to agree to never even mention the fact that USA was also removing Jupiter missiles from Turkey?

The first major victory of USA in the Cold War and event that proven to USA and the world (USSR included) beyond the shadow of a doubt that USA will be triumphant?

That Cuban missile crisis?

I wouldn't brag about it...

The berlin airlift was the first "victory" in the Cold War.

PapaDragon wrote:

mnztr wrote:Nah the Russian Navy is far too disciplined for that. They showed incredible discipline during the Cuban missile crisis and as a result we are all stilll here today.

You mean back when they were chased out of Cuba with tails between their legs and being forced to agree to never even mention the fact that USA was also removing Jupiter missiles from Turkey?

The first major victory of USA in the Cold War and event that proven to USA and the world (USSR included) beyond the shadow of a doubt that USA will be triumphant?

That Cuban missile crisis?

I wouldn't brag about it...

Both Khrushchev and Kennedy averted a certain nuclear war that would have killed around a third of the world population according to official estimates at the time. They both agreed to the terms that included the withdrawal of the Jupiter missiles from Turkey. As soon as the agreement was signed, the then US Secretary of Defense, McNamara, gave the order for the withdrawal of the Jupiter missiles, not only from Turkey, but also from Italy. I would say it was a victory for mankind!

BTW Castro was furious

Mir wrote:... They both agreed to the terms that included the withdrawal of the Jupiter missiles from Turkey.

And Soviets were banned from even mentioning it thus making USA the clear winner

They pussied out completely as always before and after

Mir wrote:... I would say it was a victory for mankind!

Victory for USA

Mankind was just unintended side effect

Mir wrote:...BTW Castro was furious

His allies and sponsors turned out to be total pussies, can you blame him?

If so (and I have my doubts) then it was also their one and only victory

Mir wrote:If so (and I have my doubts) then it was also their one and only victory

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Grain_Robbery

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cyclone

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Act_of_the_Re-Establishment_of_the_State_of_Lithuania

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fall_of_the_Berlin_Wall

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissolution_of_the_Soviet_Union

Yeah, totally...

There was an interesting article on RT today you should read.
https://www.rt.com/russia/527334-america-supremacy-world-power/

None of the above articles on wikipedia I would consider a US victory at all - not even Operation Cyclone.

Brzezinski wanted to give the Soviets their Vietnam War and yes he succeeded in pulling the Soviets into the Afghanistan War but failed to deliver Vietnam to the Soviets.
There was only two similarities. Both were unpopular wars at home and both lasted for around 10 years.

The difference is - the US lost nearly 60 000 troops whilst the Soviets lost around 13 000.
The US lost around 10 000 aircraft whilst the Soviets lost less than 400 if I remember correctly.
In Afghanistan by far the most atrocities were committed by the US backed Mujahedin.
In Vietnam by far the most atrocities were committed by the US backed South and by the US troops themselves.
This trend seems to continue wherever the US "intervenes".
The Soviets never lost the Afghan War - their orderly withdrawal from Afghanistan is evidence of that.
The Americans lost the Vietnam War - their hectic withdrawal from Vietnam is evidence of that.

Mir wrote:There was an interesting article on RT today you should read.
https://www.rt.com/russia/527334-america-supremacy-world-power/

None of the above articles on wikipedia I would consider a US victory at all - not even Operation Cyclone.......

Soviets no longer exist

USSR is beaten, dead and buried

USA is still around


USA won a curbstomp victory

PapaDragon wrote:

Mir wrote:There was an interesting article on RT today you should read.
https://www.rt.com/russia/527334-america-supremacy-world-power/

None of the above articles on wikipedia I would consider a US victory at all - not even Operation Cyclone.......

Soviets no longer exist

USSR is beaten, dead and buried

USA is still around


USA won a curbstomp victory

It shouldn't have even been a competition at all, let alone till 1991. The US had literally zero war damage from WW2 while the USSR was completely decimated. Like post war Germany, Russia's imperial power was supposed to be gone after 1991. But it survived. The USA got a grand total of a decade out of their curbstomp victory. Good for them.