Politics and Government of Russia

TR1 wrote:Rogozin is a moron, that's the issue.

Medvedev is Putin's man in any case, no difference who was up there.

I think Putin and the rest of them are scum, but Rogozin's issue is not that he is a thief (at least doesn't appear to be). He is just a completely simpleton.

That's pure supposition, in reality Medvedev handled Libya and relations with Washington with the exact opposite approach. Putin wanted to distance Russia from the Washington Consensus, while Medvedev wanted to embrace it with hamburger diplomacy. Putin militantly opposed the attack on Libya, while Medvedev capitulated and allowed NATO to attack. Let's not forget Georgia attacked Russia with instruction from NATO under the presidency of Medvedev, that was NATO saying out loud that they thought Medvedev was a pushover, that's something NATO would never have done under Putin. Had Putin not been in the background, Medvedev would have been Boris Yeltsin 2.0, probably granting NATO bases on Russian soil. In Western media circles Putin is a victim of a 24/7/365 campaign attacking him for putting a billionaire behind bars for tax evasion (something America should mimic), for recognizing that under the cover of an attack on Iran NATO was setting up a first-strike capability against Russia (ABM bases in Poland), and for not tolerating Islamic extremists attacking schools of children, which were all rational responses.

You don't have to like Putin, the reality is that he's by far the best leader in the world since Franklin Delano Roosevelt from a empirical point of view. With the help of Segey Lavrov, Putin successfully embarrassed and defeated NATO strategy to kick Russia out of the Middle-East (an attack on Syria), and even re-kindled the relationship with Egypt.

Another one of Putin's major successes was how he turned a powerful enemy in to a powerful ally. Putin can be credited with turning a former enemy of Russia (The Peoples Republic of China) to a friend, and it's an ideal alliance because neither party is subservient to another (unlike NATO), and it's both an economic and military alliance. China is becoming a growing super power, and is dependent of Russia on natural resources and raw materials on a economic level, as well as dependent on Russia militarily with growing need for Russian assistance on designing military vehicles (WZ-10, J-20, J-11, jet engines, etc.), on both fronts to a tune of tens of billions of dollars. If China were ever dumb enough to attack Russia, many of the PRC's military designs would be compromised and Russia could counter effectively, and they would be cut off from the natural resources that they desperately need, so the likeliness of China becoming an enemy again is slim-to-none. The alliance is against the common enemy called NATO, and Russia is more than willing to accept tens of billions of USD for another oil customer, in case the European Union wrecks the South/Nord stream pipeline.

X2

Under Yelztin and his two major oligarch families that sold out russia have forced PSA (Partner Sharing Aggreement) contracts onto russia. This PSA contracts were performed for 216 major resources of noble metals (gold,silver),gems, metals, oil,gas, timber and more. Most oil and gas facilities/refenaries were hold by British Shell and American Oil companies, on offshore on oil riges, russia had to pay rent for all workers for beds,food,helicopters who transported resources food,workers,maintenance stuff and so on, even tho this plattforms were russian plattforms.

Since 2004, Putin managed to sue majority of this PSA aggrements and the overall annuall state budget sky rocket 3-4 times and the social sector was the years after 80x times higher than it was under Yeltzin.

So tell me again how did Putin prevent russia for beeing billions richer than it is now?

He is the reason why Russia was prevented to getting sucked and fucked like a bitch.

Medveded being Putin's man is speculation?

Oh lord, how little you understand Russia's political structure.

Nothing speculative about it.

Anyways, we have gone off topic. I don't want to get us further off topic; you are certainly entitled to your views on Putin.
I disagree almost to a point with everything, but lets just stick to Ground Forces news here.

TR1 wrote:Medveded being Putin's man is speculation?

Oh lord, how little you understand Russia's political structure.

Nothing speculative about it.

Anyways, we have gone off topic. I don't want to get us further off topic; you are certainly entitled to your views on Putin.
I disagree almost to a point with everything, but lets just stick to Ground Forces news here.

Many oligarchical, plutocratic, kleptocrats and rent-seekers in the West, as well as ones in Russia such as Berezovsky were so self-assured that Putin would be just a continuation of Yeltsin, only to end up angered and disappointed.

Person like Putin was in need in his time. Now Russia needs something else than Siloviks in power. There is nothing to choose from at least at the moment. Well maybe next generation of Russian politicians will bring new wind, cause now there are too many foreign backed clowns or just plain idiots.

Regular wrote:Person like Putin was in need in his time. Now Russia needs something else than Siloviks in power. There is nothing to choose from at least at the moment. Well maybe next generation of Russian politicians will bring new wind, cause now there are too many foreign backed clowns or just plain idiots.

Im sure the guy is grooming his successor, KGB style. Imagine a young charismatic mofo with a vision and the will to make it happen oh and has all of the putins skillz and more. that guy would make the antichrist look like a community organizer.

OK guys, a bit controversial in today's PC'ness, but here goes:
After meeting some (actually - quite a lot of) Russians while on a skiing holiday in Bulgaria, I now feel (quite strongly in fact) that how I felt before was right - and that perhaps "Democracy" isn't the "proper way" for Russia. And I also now feel that Putin is THE proper President for Russia (at this moment). Now, my opinion is not an academic one (not in the slightest), it's not supported by various researches and thesis, but you might say that it's been empirically proven, given the Russian ruling class and its citizenry in the past.
Hope I didn't offend anyone as I also think that "Democracy" (well, at least the type of democracy as we know it today) isn't the proper system for Macedonia either.
Not at all, perhaps some sort of "Meritocracy" (where people proven in their field rule the things in that particular field) would serve us much better?!

Just an opinion/observation though - hit me with your thoughts.

P.S.
Is posting UI frowned upon here...or..is it OK?
 

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sh-t, messed up on where to send the forum reply...
but this is as good-a-place as any, I guess...

And ask any middle aged Bulgarian about Russia and he'll start the geobbels rhetoric about how Russians are "naturally incompetent, lacking superior European values and technology and will never improve unless they embrace European democracy". Seriously, I've had frequent discussions with a large amount of people here who define theselves as the intellegenstia  and almost all(especially the western immigrants) have such views. They instantly get a hardon upon hearing the words "EU" and "democracy".
They also like to talk how the reason Bulgaria has so many Russian residents and tourists is because they hate putin and Russian living conditions. Looks like you proved them wrong.


I doubt the Macedonian Bulgarians have such opinions since they've gotten a lot less support and funding from western organisations( not like the EU Bulgarians got that but it was successfully disguised as "democratic reforms") and are more Serbian aligned.

KomissarBojanchev wrote:And ask any middle aged Bulgarian about Russia and he'll start the geobbels rhetoric about how Russians are "naturally incompetent, lacking superior European values and technology and will never improve unless they embrace European democracy". Seriously, I've had frequent discussions with a large amount of people here who define theselves as the intellegenstia  and almost all(especially the western immigrants) have such views. They instantly get a hardon upon hearing the words "EU" and "democracy".
They also like to talk how the reason Bulgaria has so many Russian residents and tourists is because they hate putin and Russian living conditions. Looks like you proved them wrong.

And all this is true but should be attributed at 90% to communism and not Russian people.
I mean communism is beyond a shred of a doubt the most ridiculous political system man ever invented.
You can't really describe it. You can only experience it.
I didn't experience it either but knowing the people came from Russia in the 90s and until VERY VERY recently,
I mean my god! Only fellow communists and sub-Saharan immigrants are comparable.
The level of decadence is staggering. Western Europe is in it's worst decline since 1054 and still the remaining Russian immigrants are further down,
just living their European dream, my ass!

As of Russian people, communism aside, what can I say?
I have nothing positive to say about modern Greeks, yet, if we had Russia we would dominate the universe with a hand behind the back!
and this Slavs still straggling five centuries now to surpass Britain, a f@@ing tiny, poor, island!!!
They really lack some qualities, I know that many other people, like Balkans for example, have by nature. Some street smarts attitude or a common sense or something.
They also have some good qualities, no doubt, but I focus on the negative side here.

Hannibal Barca wrote:
And all this is true but should be attributed at 90% to communism and not Russian people.
I mean communism is beyond a shred of a doubt the most ridiculous political system man ever invented.
You can't really describe it. You can only experience it.
I didn't experience it either but knowing the people came from Russia in the 90s and until VERY VERY recently,
I mean my god! Only fellow communists and sub-Saharan immigrants are comparable.
The level of decadence is staggering. Western Europe is in it's worst decline since 1054 and still the remaining Russian immigrants are further down,
just living their European dream, my ass!

As of Russian people, communism aside, what can I say?
I have nothing positive to say about modern Greeks, yet, if we had Russia we would dominate the universe with a hand behind the back!
and this Slavs still straggling five centuries now to surpass Britain, a f@@ing tiny, poor, island!!!
They really lack some qualities, I know that many other people, like Balkans for example, have by nature. Some street smarts attitude or a common sense or something.
They also have some good qualities, no doubt, but I focus on the negative side here.

IMO communism aint that bad... it only turned to sh!t once the SU became embroiled with the west for world domination.
Actually communism is behind the world's most rapid social developments, SU, PRC...
Also, britain is already surpassed long ago... Besides in a few decades it would be a -stan country.   

KomissarBojanchev wrote:And ask any middle aged Bulgarian about Russia and he'll start the geobbels rhetoric about how Russians are "naturally incompetent, lacking superior European values and technology and will never improve unless they embrace European democracy". Seriously, I've had frequent discussions with a large amount of people here who define theselves as the intellegenstia  and almost all(especially the western immigrants) have such views. They instantly get a hardon upon hearing the words "EU" and "democracy".
They also like to talk how the reason Bulgaria has so many Russian residents and tourists is because they hate putin and Russian living conditions. Looks like you proved them wrong.


I doubt the Macedonian Bulgarians have such opinions since they've gotten a lot less support and funding from western organisations( not like the EU Bulgarians got that but it was successfully disguised as "democratic reforms") and are more Serbian aligned.

Russophobia at it's worst! If the Bulgarians you know believe that Russians are genetically pre-disposed to be incompetent, then ask a simple question..."Which country has a superior space program than Russia?"




...Keep in mind Russia has a superior Space program than any other country despite the disaster that was the 90's and the Yeltsin years. The next best space program (NASA) buys rocket engines exclusively from Russia to send rockets in to space, and they're only manned program they have left goes through the Soyuz rocket. Russia had nearly twice as many launches as the U.S., and over 6 times as many launches as the EU with it's empty rhetoric and theoretical cultural superiority. Let's keep this in context, Russia had more launches than China, India, the European Union, Japan, South Korea, and Ukraine combined!

Also tell the Russophobic Bulgarians that you know that the president of the European Union is not democratically elected, he's oligarchically hand-picked.

KomissarBojanchev wrote:And ask any middle aged Bulgarian about Russia and he'll start the geobbels rhetoric about how Russians are "naturally incompetent, lacking superior European values and technology and will never improve unless they embrace European democracy". Seriously, I've had frequent discussions with a large amount of people here who define theselves as the intellegenstia  and almost all(especially the western immigrants) have such views. They instantly get a hardon upon hearing the words "EU" and "democracy".
They also like to talk how the reason Bulgaria has so many Russian residents and tourists is because they hate putin and Russian living conditions. Looks like you proved them wrong.

Just goes to show how 'open-minded' these people are. Intelligentsia, my ass...

KomissarBojanchev wrote:I doubt the Macedonian Bulgarians have such opinions since they've gotten a lot less support and funding from western organisations( not like the EU Bulgarians got that but it was successfully disguised as "democratic reforms") and are more Serbian aligned.

Better stop this s-it right now!!!
Don't poison the thread with our Balkan crap.

Years ago I read, that Putin doesn't want a democracy in Russia, but he want that Russia become a republic. There is a big difference between democracy and republic and don't forget US founding fathers create America as republic and warn, that USA should never become a democracy. Democracy is a role of majority over minority, what is practically the role of capital over its citizens and as Socrates said, democracy lead to caos and destruction. On the other hand republic is a role of laws, which protect minority against evil will of majority. They suggest, that Putin should role in Russia for more than 20 years, that Russian citizens matured in their republican values and become responsible citizens to protect their country.

medo wrote:Years ago I read, that Putin doesn't want a democracy in Russia, but he want that Russia become a republic. There is a big difference between democracy and republic and don't forget US founding fathers create America as republic and warn, that USA should never become a democracy. Democracy is a role of majority over minority, what is practically the role of capital over its citizens and as Socrates said, democracy lead to caos and destruction. On the other hand republic is a role of laws, which protect minority against evil will of majority. They suggest, that Putin should role in Russia for more than 20 years, that Russian citizens matured in their republican values and become responsible citizens to protect their country.

That's exactly how I feel (not only about Russia, but other countries as well).
In my view - democracy only serves to raise the mediocrity level among the population make them excel less, and keep the intelligentsia down (as the percentage of the intelligentsia is far less than the 'common' folk). In a hypothetical scenario, if say a referendum was cast pro or con the construction of a:

1. Nuclear power station - everyone gets a vote, and the voices of scientists (on one hand) and/or environmentalists (on the other) get lost in the pool of votes.
2. Monument, the votes of sculptors, historians and sociologists are lost among the majority too. The only way they could affect public opinion is via the media, which (at least where I've lived) is seriously biased...

So, again, some sort of meritocracy would work far better. Establish the rules which everyone needs to follow (Criminal Laws etc.) but have some sort of mechanism that would not allow the 'less professional, but more politically prone people' rise through the ranks...just as I'm typing and reading through my post, I realize that what I'm describing is in fact a Monarchy...NVM - back to the drawing board...  

Unless Russians feel that after the Romanov, a new dynasty of Vladimirovich would serve them better...LOL  

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P.S.

Would be great if you could find the said article - would make an interesting read.

I mean communism is beyond a shred of a doubt the most ridiculous political system man ever invented. wrote:

When someone who has no idea about anthropology talks about economical systems.

For the record for you and others. Without communism we wouldn't exist in a larger society than 100+/-20 people per group and would still have a society of gatherers and hunters.

Only Communism within groups has given the groups to develope new professions for blacksmithing,trading,fishing and so on.

Communism in such groups was the reason people collected all the necessary resources and could produce "More-product" after a while which gave them time and free hands to develope jobs.
No Communism = No society like today.

Years ago I read, that Putin doesn't want a democracy in Russia, but he want that Russia become a republic. There is a big difference between democracy and republic and don't forget US founding fathers create America as republic and warn, that USA should never become a democracy. Democracy is a role of majority over minority, what is practically the role of capital over its citizens and as Socrates said, democracy lead to caos and destruction. On the other hand republic is a role of laws, which protect minority against evil will of majority. They suggest, that Putin should role in Russia for more than 20 years, that Russian citizens matured in their republican values and become responsible citizens to protect their country. wrote:

Democracy doesn't exist today, its only the word that western countries love to print on their banner while beneath they are all controlled centralistic from one point.

Democracy won't work anyway, in todays time people have developed so many personal interests that it is easy to manipulate its own citizens.

There are groups of older people so i create a party that advertises shit the party self doesn't believe and doesn't want to fullfill just to get votes.
Then there is another group of youngs so in germany now we have the "Pirates" that have basically no political programm for anything relevant but are nothing else but a trojan horse to spread all the undecided voters into different camps.
Just in year 2013 we had 7 new parties all with cathy phrases and "political programms" all appeared from nowhere, even to blind people it was dubious.

Democracy will never work with large groups, its just a system to keep idiots being idiots in the believe they have power and are only to blame themselfs when something isn't working.
If the west is so democratic why don't they implement everywhere democracy?
Why not start democracy within a family? So kids would overrule any decision made by their parents.

DemoCRAZY not democracy just a new label for dictatorship.

I am referring to the two posts above Werewolf,

No, what you describe is closer to aristocracy. A system, very unstable in general cause it tends to become either democracy or monarchy but extremely effective when it happens that the balance stuck in the middle. It is pretty much what Chinese manage to sustain after the death of Mao with impressive success in general. I guess this is what Putin envisioned for Russia as well (and I add here that he already cloned their fascist economic model), but it is impossible to be attempted with such a low level of social coherence, low constitutional awareness and all this you very well described above.

Werewolf wrote:DemoCRAZY not democracy just a new label for dictatorship.

I believe the proper term is DEMON-CRACY...

Hannibal Barca wrote:I am referring to the two posts above Werewolf,

There is always the 'Quote' button... 
I agree with SOME of the things you wrote, will have to elaborate more on the matter later, as I need to go out now...

I think you dont know what is a democracy.
Communism was not an excuse for nothing, was, is, and always will be THEY biggest enemy, because if every person could see the real communism, they power will disappear in days.

dino00 wrote:I think you dont know what is a democracy.
Communism was not an excuse for nothing, was, is, and always will be THEY biggest enemy, because if every person could see the real communism, they power will disappear in days.
 

It's truly unbelievable that people still refer to China as a "communist" country, if it was truly a communist country than why would Wallstreet and the City of London heavily lobby D.C. to ship all the manufacturing jobs to China back in the late 90's early 00's? If anything China is a mixed economy on the Charles De Gaulle model.

FYI, there was not a single country through the entire human history that was actual communistic, not a single one.

Soviet Union was never communistic in first place, North Korea isn't it today and china isn't it or was it either.

Just because people keep telling such nonsense doesn't mean its true. It is same bullshit like repeating USA is a democracy or germany or majority of western countries.
Pseudo communism and pseudo democracy doesn't mean anything.

Presidents in USA don't get elected, they get selcted. No money to run campaignes no presidency, if the unwanted would win just use manipulated counting machines, like the US does and those machines are even forbidden in the so called "undemocratic" countries like venezuela. Or cheat and get exposed at your precidency and the "judge" will decide it wouldn't matter anyway, like in Bushes "election".

No democracy, no communism just a big fat show for everyone who is stupid enough to believe it.

Communism was not an excuse for nothing, was, is, and always will be THEY biggest enemy, because if every person could see the real communism, they power will disappear in days.

Actually to me communism makes rather more sense than democracy.

The business of running a country is tremendously complicated... by what measure can anyone suggest that the average voter has any idea about the best way to do anything right? Yet their vote has the same value as the most clued up economist...

Voting these days is as much about marketing as it is about substance... how often are elections about one or two mundane and often vague promises... I will fix the economy... I will balance the books... they didn't do it the last 5 times they were in power but now you suddenly forget all the stupid sht they have done because there is so much recent BS the current regime has been caught doing.

Communism and democracy is how often you clean out the horse stall.

Some look at China and think it is a semi democracy when in actual fact it is totally communist but with a semblance of a free market economy. Very soon however the result will be the same problem as in the US... a theme that has created every Zombie Movie ever written... Zombie movies are about the gap between rich and poor except when they are coming for their money they are coming for fresh brain.

Actually to me communism makes rather more sense than democracy.

Garry B. my reply was not supposed to be rude...
I realy appreciate your posts, and think you a have a great knowledge about almost everything hehe.

Communism is democracy, its not different or make more sense is
a democracy.
The contrary of democracy is ditatership not communism.
The only real democracy( power to the people) can be achieved by communism.

China is a social-fascist dictatorship ruled by a "communist" party.

URSS was a socialist country until de death of Joseph Stalin than slowly but progressebly become a capitalist country with gorbachov.

Cuba is a socialist country.

Never existed a communist country, and probably never will because de elites will never let that hapen, it will destroy they power.

Democracy is not elections 4 or 5 years apart.

There is no real democracy in the intire world except Cuba and Belaurus.
Sorry my bad English.

magnumcromagnon wrote:

dino00 wrote:I think you dont know what is a democracy.
Communism was not an excuse for nothing, was, is, and always will be THEY biggest enemy, because if every person could see the real communism, they power will disappear in days.
 

It's truly unbelievable that people still refer to China as a "communist" country, if it was truly a communist country than why would Wallstreet and the City of London heavily lobby D.C. to ship all the manufacturing jobs to China back in the late 90's early 00's? If anything China is a mixed economy on the Charles De Gaulle model.

Where thid i say China was a Communist country?

Imo, sure sell them engines- tho it should be a couple hundreds- more like 600 engines, enough to fund the next-gen engines for russia.
Regarding offtopic, I think the best system of government would be a totalitarian one- tho the one at the top is not human, more like a supreme intelligence- like a super AI. Said AI is guided by the feelings and sentiments of the majority so there would be no BS about culture and whatnot.