Not this fucking bullshit model again
That is not a real project, my guy
Ignore it from now on
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Arkanghelsk wrote:Dang podlodka you beat me to it lol, yup looks like Amur is slated to start cranking out 6 of these bad boys.
Then it makes me wonder, the 10 ships under contract at severnaya, would they all be going to northern fleet?
Podlodka77 wrote:my humble opinion
* Baltic; I think that after these current events with NATO, there will be a significant rearmament of the Baltic Fleet. So that means that Yantar shipyard could be included in construction of a few new frigates for BF or for 20380/85 corvettes. They will also get a new contract for 11711 class of landing ships.
* Northern fleet is going to stay the most powerful fleet by number of submarines and few more Severnaya built 22350 frigates will be delivered to NF.
* Amur shipyard will be good if MOD gives them contract for the construction of frigates, but i think that most of those frigates will be handed over to PF. As things stand now, it is not impossible for PF to become the most powerful Russian fleet in the future or to be completely equal to the NF, except for submarines. Nope, Northern fleet will stay the submarine kingdome.
* Black sea fleet; ZALIV is too busy with the construction of universal landing ships of 23900 class and i dont think that "More" shipyard is capable for the construction of frigates, but if they can build 22800 Karakurt small rocket ships than they could built 20380 corvettes also.
* AND there is one more shipyard but too busy with the construction of nuclear ice breakers, BALTIC shipyard.. Those 22350 frigates would be an easy meal for Baltic shipyard..God damn Severnaya Werf.
* Zvezda shipyard ; I can only imagine building ships of greater displacement there, not 22350 frigates. Only thing that thez are working now for russian MOD is modernization of the 949A Antey submarines. But for know...
Krepost wrote:Podlodka77 wrote:my humble opinion
* Baltic; I think that after these current events with NATO, there will be a significant rearmament of the Baltic Fleet. So that means that Yantar shipyard could be included in construction of a few new frigates for BF or for 20380/85 corvettes. They will also get a new contract for 11711 class of landing ships.
* Northern fleet is going to stay the most powerful fleet by number of submarines and few more Severnaya built 22350 frigates will be delivered to NF.
* Amur shipyard will be good if MOD gives them contract for the construction of frigates, but i think that most of those frigates will be handed over to PF. As things stand now, it is not impossible for PF to become the most powerful Russian fleet in the future or to be completely equal to the NF, except for submarines. Nope, Northern fleet will stay the submarine kingdome.
* Black sea fleet; ZALIV is too busy with the construction of universal landing ships of 23900 class and i dont think that "More" shipyard is capable for the construction of frigates, but if they can build 22800 Karakurt small rocket ships than they could built 20380 corvettes also.
* AND there is one more shipyard but too busy with the construction of nuclear ice breakers, BALTIC shipyard.. Those 22350 frigates would be an easy meal for Baltic shipyard..God damn Severnaya Werf.
* Zvezda shipyard ; I can only imagine building ships of greater displacement there, not 22350 frigates. Only thing that thez are working now for russian MOD is modernization of the 949A Antey submarines. But for know...
Dear Prophet,
You forgot the Admiralty shipyard.
Please tell us what to expect from that yard.
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Kirovs WERE not built during the period "we don't want carierrs" but they were built when Admiral Sergei Gorshkow was chief of the Russian navy. He was the guy that has ordered carriers Kuznetsov and Varyag, nuclear Ulyanovsk, Orlan class of cruisers, Atlant class of cruisers.x_54_u43 wrote:Considering how standard 22350s went from 16 UKSK launchers to 24 with associated tonnage without getting a new letter, and Lider cruiser not exactly getting much interest from MOD, I think it can be safely assumed that 22350M is gonna be 12k or more in terms of displacement.
Why bother going all out on nuclear powered destroyer design to replace Kirov that at most is getting built in numbers of four or at BEST 6?
Kirovs got built during "we don't want carrier" thinking of USSR, and it's associated size were due to massive missile size and command/control facilities for the rest of the fleet, which doesn't take up much for an aircraft carrier due to their natural shape and volume but is sizable for a cruiser.
Zircons are vastly more capable than Granit's and take up three times less space, and digital computing has vastly decreased the need for enormous command and control centers in the way they were implemented otn Kirovs, it's like replacing a Commodore 64 with a modern laptop, but thinking that since the Commodore was a certain size and weight, then the replacement must also be just as heavy.
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Arrow wrote:Yes Admiral Sergey Gorshkov wanted to build a powerful ocean fleet
and then they had perhaps the most powerful fleet. A little more and they would have nuclear aircraft carriers
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Isos wrote:Soviet navy was powerful thanks to its hundreds of subs.
Gorshkov's ocean fleet would have been good to support allies but when you see how those allies turned their back on soviets after being gifted planes, boats and civilian products for their failed states for no money it's good they didn't build it. Would have been pretty useless.
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PapaDragon wrote:Isos wrote:Soviet navy was powerful thanks to its hundreds of subs.
Gorshkov's ocean fleet would have been good to support allies but when you see how those allies turned their back on soviets after being gifted planes, boats and civilian products for their failed states for no money it's good they didn't build it. Would have been pretty useless.
Correct
That ally support fleet would have been yet another (thick) layer on the USSR's wasted money cake
Power came from subs and still does
calripson wrote:In the history of naval warfare, it never pays to be second. Second tier surface fleets like Germany in both WWI and WWII are money and resources misspent. Submarines are always a better option if you are not the top dog. The US navy in surface warfare is in a traditional sense top dog, but technology calls into question the whole value of surface ship warfare. Hypersonic long-range weapons may render the whole concept of capital ships obsolete.
calripson wrote:In the history of naval warfare, it never pays to be second. Second tier surface fleets like Germany in both WWI and WWII are money and resources misspent. Submarines are always a better option if you are not the top dog. The US navy in surface warfare is in a traditional sense top dog, but technology calls into question the whole value of surface ship warfare. Hypersonic long-range weapons may render the whole concept of capital ships obsolete.
lancelot wrote:
What I think would be a major step forward would be satellite launch capability from submarines to reestablish a communications and/or recon capability in case of ASAT attack on the existing network. Also perhaps they could operate drones from submarines for reconnaissance of targets for the cruise missiles.
Arrow wrote:This is nothing new. They already did. They fired a satellite from the SSBN with a converted R 29 rocket.
Isos wrote:Soviet navy was powerful thanks to its hundreds of subs.
Gorshkov's ocean fleet would have been good to support allies but when you see how those allies turned their back on soviets after being gifted planes, boats and civilian products for their failed states for no money it's good they didn't build it. Would have been pretty useless.