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    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7

    Atmosphere
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    Post  Atmosphere Sat Feb 27, 2021 4:07 pm

    Big_Gazza wrote:The U.S. Air Force Just Admitted The F-35 Stealth Fighter Has Failed

    The U.S. Air Force’s top officer wants the service to develop an affordable, lightweight fighter to replace hundreds of Cold War-vintage F-16s and complement a small fleet of sophisticated—but costly and unreliable—stealth fighters.

    The result would be a high-low mix of expensive “fifth-generation” F-22s and F-35s and inexpensive “fifth-generation-minus” jets, explained Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. Charles Brown Jr.

    In his last interview before leaving his post in January, Will Roper, the Air Force’s top acquisition official, floated the idea of new F-16 orders. But Brown shot down the idea, saying he doesn’t want more of the classic planes.

    The 17-ton, non-stealthy F-16 is too difficult to upgrade with the latest software, Brown explained. Instead of ordering fresh F-16s, he said, the Air Force should initiate a “clean-sheet design” for a new low-end fighter.

    Brown’s comments are a tacit admission that the F-35 has failed.

    source

    First they restart F-15 production and now they want a cheap F-16 equivalent!!   Razz  Razz  Razz  Razz  Razz   Kinda puts a crimp in their wet dreams about fielding 6G any time soon or in numbers!!!

    This made me grin like a Cheshire frigging cat, and its so rare that Dave Axe writes anything that I agree with  Laughing  If even Forbes is prepared to admit what we at RDF have known for years then its a wonderful moral victory that we can all enjoy!  

    I'd like to think that this will mean an end to the stupid Murican fan-boi faggots sneering about Russian warplanes and shit-canning the imminently sensible concept of running a mixed fighter fleet of a small(ish) number of 5G along with a large contingent of modernised 4++, but who am I kidding?  These morons won't be convinced by anything as they are too emotionally invested in US aerospace supremacy and their belief in the backwardness of Ruski Slavs living in poverty in their mud huts   Laughing  Laughing  Laughing  Laughing


    So is 4 plus plus gen somewhat of an equivalent to 5th minus? Im feeling it is
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    Post  Cheetah Sat Feb 27, 2021 4:55 pm

    Atmosphere wrote:So is 4 plus plus gen somewhat of an equivalent to 5th minus? Im feeling it is

    The whole aircraft generation thing is only a loose, colloquial definition, anyway. Gen 4+, 4++, 5-; It's all more of a marketing gimmick to distance one's self from the past century of aviation. Ask yourself, how many plus signs do you append to the number '4' before it might as well be called 5th gen? There's no uniform answer. But, I do find it amusing that an Airforce general is going for the one-upsmanship on Russia's Su-35 and MiG-35 by opting for the wording "fifth-generation-minus".
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    Post  LMFS Sat Feb 27, 2021 6:24 pm

    By Ejajjs:

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7 - Page 12 294b9410
    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7 - Page 12 B0513c10
    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7 - Page 12 Evpgha10

    In February,2021, for three days, MAI magistracy students got acquainted with the workshops of KnAAZ, studied in practice the principles of the functioning of real production on the example of the serial production of military aircraft Su-35S and Su-57


    Observe what appears to be the huge dorsal fuel tanks...

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    Backman
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    Post  Backman Sat Feb 27, 2021 6:54 pm

    Big_Gazza wrote:The U.S. Air Force Just Admitted The F-35 Stealth Fighter Has Failed

    The U.S. Air Force’s top officer wants the service to develop an affordable, lightweight fighter to replace hundreds of Cold War-vintage F-16s and complement a small fleet of sophisticated—but costly and unreliable—stealth fighters.

    The result would be a high-low mix of expensive “fifth-generation” F-22s and F-35s and inexpensive “fifth-generation-minus” jets, explained Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. Charles Brown Jr.

    In his last interview before leaving his post in January, Will Roper, the Air Force’s top acquisition official, floated the idea of new F-16 orders. But Brown shot down the idea, saying he doesn’t want more of the classic planes.

    The 17-ton, non-stealthy F-16 is too difficult to upgrade with the latest software, Brown explained. Instead of ordering fresh F-16s, he said, the Air Force should initiate a “clean-sheet design” for a new low-end fighter.

    Brown’s comments are a tacit admission that the F-35 has failed.

    source

    First they restart F-15 production and now they want a cheap F-16 equivalent!!   Razz  Razz  Razz  Razz  Razz   Kinda puts a crimp in their wet dreams about fielding 6G any time soon or in numbers!!!

    This made me grin like a Cheshire frigging cat, and its so rare that Dave Axe writes anything that I agree with  Laughing  If even Forbes is prepared to admit what we at RDF have known for years then its a wonderful moral victory that we can all enjoy!  

    I'd like to think that this will mean an end to the stupid Murican fan-boi faggots sneering about Russian warplanes and shit-canning the imminently sensible concept of running a mixed fighter fleet of a small(ish) number of 5G along with a large contingent of modernised 4++, but who am I kidding?  These morons won't be convinced by anything as they are too emotionally invested in US aerospace supremacy and their belief in the backwardness of Ruski Slavs living in poverty in their mud huts   Laughing  Laughing  Laughing  Laughing

    I think what the AF means by 5- is a F-16 with a stealth skin. Like they should have built in the first place. Or maybe a F-18 Hornet with a stealth skin. And less emphasis on the space age "sensor fusion " and all that nonsense.

    The whole problem with the F-35 is that it was a clean sheet platform. With zero evolutionary design like the su 57 and su 34 are.

    But maybe I'm wrong. The F-22 is an evolutionary design of the F-15 but the bureaucratic and overly political MIC still f'd that up royally.

    The US airforce won't be able to get what it wants until the corrupt and political MIC is reformed. Any other new plane , no matter what it is , will end up the same way.

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    Post  TMA1 Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:19 am

    medo wrote:

    whoa cool. pay attention to the DIRCM at the very end of the clip and you can see it scanning and moving about. interesting.

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    Post  GarryB Sun Feb 28, 2021 7:10 am

    So is 4 plus plus gen somewhat of an equivalent to 5th minus? Im feeling it is.

    minus 5th is, was designed to be stealthy but is now made cheaper to buy and operate, and four ++ is upgraded fours using avionics and weapons and sensors from 5th gen fighters I suspect...

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    Post  LMFS Sun Feb 28, 2021 3:33 pm

    TMA1 wrote:whoa cool. pay attention to the DIRCM at the very end of the clip and you can see it scanning and moving about. interesting.

    True, I had not seen that before! It is scanning 360 deg full speed thumbsup

    GarryB wrote:minus 5th is, was designed to be stealthy but is now made cheaper to buy and operate, and four ++ is upgraded fours using avionics and weapons and sensors from 5th gen fighters I suspect...

    Good theory

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    Isos
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    Post  Isos Sun Feb 28, 2021 3:37 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    So is 4 plus plus gen somewhat of an equivalent to 5th minus? Im feeling it is.

    minus 5th is, was designed to be stealthy but is now made cheaper to buy and operate,  and four ++ is upgraded fours using avionics and weapons and sensors from 5th gen fighters I suspect...

    That's what f-35 was supposed to be...

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    Post  GarryB Mon Mar 01, 2021 6:10 am

    Well the concept was sound... they wanted a standard aircraft that could replace all the multitude of different aircraft types in one modern stealthy platform... their biggest problem is that they didn't give the programme to MiG or Sukhoi who know what value for money is.

    It was always going to blow out and be silly expensive so they took precautions... they did with the F-35 what they pioneered on the C-17.

    Find out which senators are on defence procurement committees deciding about funding of military projects and put factories in their districts.

    To build new high tech stealth aircraft you need precision... if angles are out or thicknesses are wrong then it wont be stealthy, so you need high tech modern production facilities to make the planes.... but by building components factories all over the US your logistics costs are going to be painfully expensive... even cutting costs on quality means it will still be expensive.

    Saying you will replace all existing planes and all your allies will buy some so there will be 3,000 plus aircraft made means you can buy components in bulk and save money and reduce costs, but if they are still not working properly after you have 500 produced and distributed to customers then that is a serious warning sign too.

    It was supposed to be cheaper than existing types but it is 10 times more expensive to operate than mature capable systems with higher flight speed and more range and better payload.

    Makes the Su-57 look fantastic.

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    Post  Nomad5891 Mon Mar 01, 2021 2:39 pm

    The Su-57 is comming out nicely, too bad it is like a decade and a half too late.
    I dont think it will ever see broad use- most likely russians will use it as a stop gap/ technology test bed till they get first 6th gen remotely operated/drone prototypes in 10-15 years.
    Manned fighers have just reached the limit from where no possible improvement is possible.
    A drone/remotely operated fighter can be cheaper, smaller, stealthier, with wider op range, faster and more manuvarable. No way one can match that with manned aircraft with all the extra weight and G-force limitations.

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    Post  LMFS Mon Mar 01, 2021 2:48 pm

    What a load of crap...

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    Post  Backman Mon Mar 01, 2021 6:45 pm

    Nomad5891 wrote:The Su-57 is comming out nicely, too bad it is like a decade and a half too late.
    I dont think it will ever see broad use- most likely russians will use it as a stop gap/ technology test bed till they get first 6th gen remotely operated/drone prototypes in 10-15 years.
    Manned fighers have just reached the limit from where no possible improvement is possible.
    A drone/remotely operated fighter can be cheaper, smaller, stealthier, with wider op range, faster and more manuvarable. No way one can match that with manned aircraft with all the extra weight and G-force limitations.

    Here's another moron projecting the discontinued F-22 and failed F-35 onto the su 57. Funny that.

    The su 57 is designed with economics in mind. Modular engines , upgradeable to 6th gen or unmanned. Since it is an evolutionary design from the su 27, it will seamlessly take over for it in the coming decades. Countries like India and China who have hundreds of Flankers have shown interest.

    With the recent news about the F-35, it's basically a guarantee that not only will there be more su 57's than F-22's, but also more su 57's than F-35's.

    This is just me but I think the su 57 is going to be the most successful Russian fighter yet. And its going to lead to a premature death of the Flanker line. If you are going to order a new jet , it might as well be a su 57 rather than a Flanker.  Because it is a Flanker. Just better. After production matures, it shouldn't cost any more to build a su 57 than a Flanker. So you might as well build a su 57. Plus the su 57 is just a little smaller. It solves the problem of the Flanker being a little too big.

    A cheaper base model su 57 could work for someone's low mix. And a souped up su 57 could work for someone's high mix.

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    Post  Nomad5891 Mon Mar 01, 2021 9:39 pm

    Backman wrote:

    Here's another moron projecting the discontinued F-22 and failed F-35 onto the su 57. Funny that.

    I am not projecting anything. F22 was not a failed design. It just turned out to not be that necessary. One doesn't need 200 000 000 USD super sofisticated platfrom from which to bomb 3rd world failed states when you can do the same job with 25-30 000 000USD F16. It is basic common sense.
    The F35 on the other hand...yeah.

    And it's not funny at all. I still remember the images of the first flight back in 2010 and the great expectation and secrecy which surrounded the aircraft back then. AFAIR plans were to get first serial units by 2014 and have arround 60 units by 2016. It is 2021 now, how many serial planes are flying?
    I do think it is a capable plane, surpassing competition in some areas at just fraction of the cost...but again, it is just too late. This doesnt mean that Su57 is an error- not at all. It is just a necessary step that Russia had to take in order to continue forward. Much like Superjet was/is necesary project to keep the civil air plane industry alive and modernize it in order to be able to undertake more ambitious projects like MC21.

    I agree with all the rest you wrote. Pretty much. Only problem is that by the time Russia could actually deploy the SU57 in significant numbers and also be able to export it in significant numbers it will not compete against F16s, Eurofighters or even F22s.
    Check out ongoing and already flying projects such as XQ-58 or Boeing Loyal Wingman. This is the future. It is question of common sense, not feelings.

    There could be a brieve period of maybe 5 to 10 years when manned and unmanned figher jets will co-exist, but at certain point manned fighters will not be able to keep up. Just like cavalary gave way to internal combustion vehicles back in the days. It would be stupid to invest money in cavalary units, no matter how cheap they are or how innovative saddles they have, when your enemy is building tanks.

    LMFS wrote:What a load of crap...
    Sorry I hurt your feelings, mate.

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    Post  JohninMK Mon Mar 01, 2021 11:39 pm

    Nomad5891 wrote:
    I do think it is a capable plane, surpassing competition in some areas at just fraction of the cost...but again, it is just too late.

    Why do you think that? Too late against what measure?

    Has Russia lost a war or even a battle by not having it? Has it fallen behind in potential air combat scenarios buy its lack? Has it even lost a sale?

    Why develop something in haste, like the F-35, when there is no need and there are more important homes for the money?

    Russia is not in the US's shoes, capable of pissing away pots of money created out of thin air on a seemingly unlimited credit card.

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    Post  LMFS Tue Mar 02, 2021 12:24 am

    Nomad5891 wrote:Sorry I hurt your feelings, mate.

    On the contrary, we are lucky to have among us a rare individual able to debunk VKS, USAF and the rest of air forces of this world. You are so smart, you know better than them respekt

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    Post  Isos Tue Mar 02, 2021 1:04 am


    I agree with all the rest you wrote. Pretty much. Only problem is that by the time Russia could actually deploy the SU57 in significant numbers and also be able to export it in significant numbers it will not compete against F16s, Eurofighters or even F22s.
    Check out ongoing and already flying projects such as XQ-58 or Boeing Loyal Wingman. This is the future. It is question of common sense, not feelings.

    We check out that everyday here.

    F-35 dead. F-22 dead. They are buying again the f-15 and will probably have to upgrade the f-16.

    Germany is replacing its tornados with f-18 when they have more modern Typhoon.

    Germano french 5th generation fighter program is dead. Germany wants a fighter on their own.

    Canada won't buy the f-35 but f-18.

    4th generation fighters are coming back everywhere. And none of them can face the su-57. It turns out that chinese and russians handled stealth technology much better than americans.

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    Post  TMA1 Tue Mar 02, 2021 3:01 am

    Nomad5891 wrote:
    Backman wrote:

    Here's another moron projecting the discontinued F-22 and failed F-35 onto the su 57. Funny that.

    I am not projecting anything. F22 was not a failed design. It just turned out to not be that necessary. One doesn't need 200 000 000 USD super sofisticated platfrom from which to bomb 3rd world failed states when you can do the same job with 25-30 000 000USD F16. It is basic common sense.
    The F35 on the other hand...yeah.

    And it's not funny at all. I still remember the images of the first flight back in 2010 and the great expectation and secrecy which surrounded the aircraft back then. AFAIR plans were to get first serial units by 2014 and have arround 60 units by 2016. It is 2021 now, how many serial planes are flying?
    I do think it is a capable plane, surpassing competition in some areas at just fraction of the cost...but again, it is just too late. This doesnt mean that Su57 is an error- not at all. It is just a necessary step that Russia had to take in order to continue forward. Much like Superjet was/is necesary project to keep the civil air plane industry alive and modernize it in order to be able to undertake more ambitious projects like MC21.

    I agree with all the rest you wrote. Pretty much. Only problem is that by the time Russia could actually deploy the SU57 in significant numbers and also be able to export it in significant numbers it will not compete against F16s, Eurofighters or even F22s.
    Check out ongoing and already flying projects such as XQ-58 or Boeing Loyal Wingman. This is the future. It is question of common sense, not feelings.

    There could be a brieve period of maybe 5 to 10 years when manned and unmanned figher jets will co-exist, but at certain point manned fighters will not be able to keep up. Just like cavalary gave way to internal combustion vehicles back in the days. It would be stupid to invest money in cavalary units, no matter how cheap they are or how innovative saddles they have, when your enemy is building tanks.

    LMFS wrote:What a load of crap...
    Sorry I hurt your feelings, mate.

    nah it certainly is not too late. Russia does not need to seek parity with natosphere. it needs sufficiently advanced combined arms to protect it's array of strategic weapons which continue to grow in sophistication and novelty. even just 78 su-57's and accompanying s-70's (as well as other advanced kit in their combined arms bag) will be a massive trump card to deal to others if they are attacked. over here we jumped far ahead of the game in the late 80s and 90s but the gap has seriously narrowed, especially in certain critical fields. we tried to buy and bribe away our enemies into a false peace. frankly China is our enemy. while ruskies are indeed extremely dangerous they are generally only reacting to our attempts to choke them out in key regions. the neolib/neocon cliques do NOT want Russia to be even a regional power. while we need to check the ruskies we should be allowing them to exert their influences in the caucasus and keep their alliances in the northern mid-east.

    no, it definitely is not "too late". in fact they have jumped ahead in spite of all the sanctions and whatnot. other regional powers are trying to extricate themselves from western dependency and only the ruskies are really ideal position in the coming future.

    sorry for the blabbering but the politics is always linked with defense shit.sometimes thinking too deeply about it depresses me as I realize over and over that my nation which God had blessed is totally controlled by supranational interests of varying kinds. I understand we cannot just isolate ourselves and recede from the global stage as the vacuum would be filled by Russia, China, and others. still though I loathe the leadership of the western world these days and dont want to see other global powers castrated by them as it is too much power for any combine of factions to hold. we need other superpowers to keep every other in check. hopefully we can somehow clean house and remove the cabals in power in the west, Russia, and China because they all fucking suck and are all hopelessly subverted and/or corrupt.
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    Post  TMA1 Tue Mar 02, 2021 3:10 am

    Isos wrote:

    I agree with all the rest you wrote. Pretty much. Only problem is that by the time Russia could actually deploy the SU57 in significant numbers and also be able to export it in significant numbers it will not compete against F16s, Eurofighters or even F22s.
    Check out ongoing and already flying projects such as XQ-58 or Boeing Loyal Wingman. This is the future. It is question of common sense, not feelings.

    We check out that everyday here.

    F-35 dead. F-22 dead. They are buying again the f-15 and will probably have to upgrade the f-16.

    Germany is replacing its tornados with f-18 when they have more modern Typhoon.

    Germano french 5th generation fighter program is dead. Germany wants a fighter on their own.

    Canada won't buy the f-35 but f-18.

    4th generation fighters are coming back everywhere. And none of them can face the su-57. It turns out that chinese and russians handled stealth technology much better than americans.

    I dont think the f-22 is dead at all, but it is getting old now and we need to expedite things so we can continue to hold on to our once clear superiority as it is dwindling very fast. yeah, the f-35 program has been in a state of crisis since it's inception frankly. too many bean counters, corrupt bureaucrats/politicians/lobbyists and McNamara tier eggheads among other serious issues. we need to find some somewhat near term solutions really fast.
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    Post  Backman Tue Mar 02, 2021 4:22 am

    Nomad5891 wrote:
    Backman wrote:

    Here's another moron projecting the discontinued F-22 and failed F-35 onto the su 57. Funny that.


    There could be a brieve period of maybe 5 to 10 years when manned and unmanned figher jets will co-exist, but at certain point manned fighters will not be able to keep up




    Russia Begins Testing ‘Drone Variant’ Of Stealth Su-57 Jets

    EurAsian Times Desk
    September 1, 2020

    As reported by The National Interest Magazine, the ‘remote-controlled’ Su-57 stealth jets will become the first unmanned fifth-generation aircraft, able to be operated away from potentially unsafe skies, safely. Reports suggest that work has been underway on the drones by United Aircraft Corporation (UAC), the designer of the Su-57s.

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    Post  PapaDragon Tue Mar 02, 2021 4:26 am

    Nomad5891 wrote:
    I do think it is a capable plane, surpassing competition in some areas at just fraction of the cost...but again, it is just too late.

    Too late for what?

    Su-27 also arrived after F-15 and now it's derivatives comprise pretty much entirety of Russian fighter/bomber fleet

    Same role awaits Su-57

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    Post  GarryB Tue Mar 02, 2021 7:14 am

    The Su-57 is comming out nicely, too bad it is like a decade and a half too late.

    If they had rushed the design it would be greatly inferior to what they have now and to be honest.... without 6 axis milling machines and new technologies and computers and designs it would have not been much different from the Su-35 is now... probably inferior in a few ways.

    It would be like saying the Su-27 was late, but it was the result of knowledge and understanding of what the enemy aircraft at the time were all about... rushing it into production probably would have resulted in an aircraft that was not superior to the F-15 and F-16... which is what makes the Su-35 such a saleable commodity even today...

    Obviously with the west being the aggressor then Russia is always going to be behind in terms of reacting to threats... but ironically not actually being the aggressor meant the west never bothered building the sort of comprehensive integrated air defence network that Russia how has, so the west has to talk about swarm drone attacks that they don't quite know how to impliment just yet... at a time when the west has no answer to Russian low flying subsonic cruise missiles and hypersonic manouvering ballistic missiles like Iskander that they have had in service for quite some time... which is to say nothing of the new generations of weapons they are introducing in response to the US leaving the ABM treaty and the INF treaty and threatening to use cruise missiles and ballistic missiles against them for decades.

    The next step is high flying hypersonic anti ship and land attack missiles which are already in operational service, with a new generation of weapons on the verge of entering service and HATO can't even deal with the previous generation of weapons.

    A drone/remotely operated fighter can be cheaper, smaller, stealthier, with wider op range, faster and more manuvarable. No way one can match that with manned aircraft with all the extra weight and G-force limitations.

    Could be... but currently isn't. They have been promising drone fighters for as long as there have been drones, but they are not there yet.

    With the recent news about the F-35, it's basically a guarantee that not only will there be more su 57's than F-22's, but also more su 57's than F-35's.

    What sort of pathetic bitch would buy an F-35 now... but we already knew the other buyers were just buying because it is a necessary sacrifice to the god of war.... the US MIC?

    But the obvious problems with the aircraft they don't seem interested in admitting let alone fixing, and the cost to buy and the cost to operate an aircraft which created the need for Russia to develop and introduce into service the Su-57....

    It is like playing a bluffing game swinging plastic axes and daggers with fake blood to try to get your enemy to kill you.... think about what you win if you are successful?

    The F-35 is a plastic mace and the Su-57 is a 12 gauge shotgun...

    F22 was not a failed design. It just turned out to not be that necessary.

    Of course it was a failed design... it was a cold war design that was completed and produced in a post cold war period... as soon as the cold war ended they should have stopped all their programmes and re-evaluated them and decided what was worth spending money on and what was not... they didn't.... they just ploughed on and developed things they were never going to actually need.... the commanche was probably the dumbest... take an attack helicopter and make it too expensive to use. Stealth means nothing to an attack helicopter... when was a helicopter last shot down by a radar guided missile?

    One doesn't need 200 000 000 USD super sofisticated platfrom from which to bomb 3rd world failed states when you can do the same job with 25-30 000 000USD F16. It is basic common sense.

    Now that those third world states might have Su-35s having a few more F-22s would actually be useful... but in their current form probably not effective.

    And it's not funny at all. I still remember the images of the first flight back in 2010 and the great expectation and secrecy which surrounded the aircraft back then. AFAIR plans were to get first serial units by 2014 and have arround 60 units by 2016. It is 2021 now, how many serial planes are flying?

    The ATF or advanced tactical fighter programme to replace the F-15 started in the early 1980s and it was not until 1996 that the F-22 first flew and a further ten years after that before they started serial production... the F-15 was out of production and were getting old... they weren't much newer aircraft like Su-30 and Su-35 aircraft being built at the same time...

    The time frame they achieved seems to have outdone all of Europe... what 5th gen fighters did they develop?

    I would say pretty damn good for a third world gas station...

    I do think it is a capable plane, surpassing competition in some areas at just fraction of the cost...but again, it is just too late.

    Funny, because I think it is too early... I suspect a delay of maybe 5 years and it would have new generation photonic radar and new engines and of course another 1,000 extra F-35s built which will be an enormous drain on the resources of the air forces forced to operate them.

    Only problem is that by the time Russia could actually deploy the SU57 in significant numbers and also be able to export it in significant numbers it will not compete against F16s, Eurofighters or even F22s.

    WTF are you talking about... an Su-57 will piss all over those bits of crap... the only western plane that even comes close you didn't even mention.... the Rafale, but even then I rather suspect in a real conflict they will find a reason to remain in France...

    Check out ongoing and already flying projects such as XQ-58 or Boeing Loyal Wingman. This is the future. It is question of common sense, not feelings.

    Yeah, the British government declared fighter aircraft to be obsolete and that missiles will do everything... that was in the late 1960s and early 1970s...

    Lets see if Boeing can do better than they are currently doing with the F-35 and their civilian planes which also seem to have some serious problems...

    The amusing thing you seem to be ignoring is the title... Loyal Wingman... suggests it operates with a manned aircraft... and also suggests the fact that if you are in F-35s then it is more likely you will be in the one operating F-35 and all the aircraft you are flying with will be unmanned... probably because all the rest of the F-35s are grounded or just too expensive to fly.

    The future looks rather bleak in the US to be honest. Razz

    There could be a brieve period of maybe 5 to 10 years when manned and unmanned figher jets will co-exist, but at certain point manned fighters will not be able to keep up.

    Well that is hilarious because the US has declare their 5th gen aircraft to be a failure and are looking at putting 4th gen fighters back into production.... likely at enormous cost... but you think in 5 years time they will be announcing they fucked up again and that 6th gen aircraft are the way forward instead.

    Interesting, because that would be an excellent strategy by the US MIC to make max money from this debacle... tried overcharging for 5th gen F-35 but they saw through the smoke and mirrors and demanded a solution... their solution is to spend massive amounts of money putting previous generation aircraft back into production... so those cheap old 4th gen fighters will be costing as much as the new 5th gen fighters... but on the plus side they should actually work like they always did so that is a plus.

    The next stage will be to look at what can replace the 5th gen fighters that Russia will have but they will likely retire as quick as they can... the damn things cost more to operate per hour than their B-2s...

    Essentially 5th gen stealthy fighter programme by the US might have been to try to bankrupt Russia by making them buy lots of radars and SAMs... but they were buying and upgrading them anyway... what it has done instead is chipped into the US budget to the value of a few trillion dollars and resulted in aircraft that still need EW support and stand off weapons and still can't reliably penetrate Russian air defences from the 1980s...

    Just like cavalary gave way to internal combustion vehicles back in the days. It would be stupid to invest money in cavalary units, no matter how cheap they are or how innovative saddles they have, when your enemy is building tanks.

    Funny you say that because in some cases the cavalry charge on the eastern front was actually rather more effective against rear area units than a 32km/h little metal box called the T-26 that was their main tank at the start of the war.

    The T-26 was a massively improved British Carldon Lloyd tank (Spelling)... it has a better engine and better drive train and the 45mm guns they ended up fitting to them was the best gun ever fitted to such tanks of that type. More importantly the British habit at the time was to have a vehicle armed with an anti armour gun and a vehicle armed with a machine gun... where the tank gun armed vehicle was a tank for killing tanks and the vehicle with the machine gun was for supporting infantry. The Russian versions had both the 45mm gun and the machine gun... but of course the same poor 2 man crew design.

    Why develop something in haste, like the F-35, when there is no need and there are more important homes for the money?

    Indeed, the F-35 is not properly tested... there are about 500 serially produced models and many are in service, but it is not a fully functioning aircraft... it is like a Microsoft operating system.... they have sold them... at full price of course... and are expecting the users to come up with problems and they will fix them as the problems are discovered... but it is worse than that because they are not bothering to fix the problems and they are not bringing out service packs and patches to solve the problems... it is just a feature that the plane suffocates the pilot...

    Russia is not in the US's shoes, capable of pissing away pots of money created out of thin air on a seemingly unlimited credit card.

    And honestly it is obscene that some are suggesting it is OK for the US to waste money and resources and screw allies like this.... because they can afford it...

    4th generation fighters are coming back everywhere. And none of them can face the su-57. It turns out that chinese and russians handled stealth technology much better than americans.

    Not a huge surprise because they could see the mistakes the Americans were making and simply avoid them.... they are building planes to defend themselves first and foremost.... making money is not THE priority like it is in the US.

    nah it certainly is not too late. Russia does not need to seek parity with natosphere

    HATO are super weapon fixated... the Su-57 and indeed the S-70 and Su-35 and Su-30 and MiG-35 as well as their massive air defence network are a combined force that will work together to defeat any attack directed at Russia.

    Very simply the purpose of the S-70 was to make the fact that HATO was going to have 4K plus F-35s facing them a more realistic proposition... and together with S-400 and S-500 and S-350 missiles and all the other missiles I would think they were just fine... the thing is that HATO might have thousands of fighters, but they don't have air defence systems beyond a few major SAMs.... which means those thousands of fighters are going to be doing double duty... providing attack but also having to defend... a few hypersonic and subsonic missiles heading towards targets in HATO countries and that strips away half their fighters and half their AWACS and JSTARS platforms and half their refuelling aircraft too and suddenly their powerful striking capability is massively reduced and not nearly as formidable.

    In fact in some areas quite vulnerable if you start hitting airfields and communications centres and troop concentrations.

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    Nomad5891


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    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7 - Page 12 Empty Re: Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7

    Post  Nomad5891 Tue Mar 02, 2021 8:36 am

    I would really like to address each of the comments by you guys but it woudl simply take me too much time.

    I guess I rather sum up a one for all answer:

    -SU 57 is a good, capable plane, and had it appeared in serial productcion 15 years ago it would have had massive success and would have turned into a legend much like the Flanker it is supposed to retire. Do I say it is possible that this could have happen? No, I agree with Garry that Russians could not have pulled out serial production of Su57 15 years ago. Russians played with the hand they have been dealt the best possible way. russia

    -Future is drone aircrafts and eventually at some point autonomous AI controlled planes. Some technologies still have to mature in order to achieve this. My personal opinion is that first such serial drone fighers will appear in 10 years time if not earlier. They could at first play the role of just escort of manned aircrafts but it will be just the first stage of the process. Again this is a personal opinion made by following just common sense.

    -By the time USA, China and maybe Europe field drone fighters Russians will have to do the same. I am sure Russia is already working on a drone fighter and that could be one of the reasons SU57 has not been recieving all the needed funding in order to reach serial production earlier. If this is the case, then great! But again, all this in my opinion points out that the SU57 will be just a stop gap/test bed between current manned airforce and an airforce based on drones. The fact that USA is not investing money in new manned fighter projects but seeks to revive the cheap F16 just backs this line of thought. They are just buying the needed time before they can start using drone fighters currently under development/testing.

    -All this leads me to thinking SU57 though capable and well designed aircraft will not be given enough time to actually be produced in significant numbers. Significant numbers being more than 100 units.

    I fully get the fact you may not agree and I guess this is the fun part about a public forum.

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    lyle6
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    Post  lyle6 Tue Mar 02, 2021 1:48 pm

    Total nonsense. 15 years is forever in the computer world and one of the if not the main reason behind the F-22's demise relative to the F-35 is its relatively archaic avionics architecture that is entirely the opposite of plug and play. Throw in some half-baked shit, like glitching after crossing the international dateline and sure, its uh, a stellar success. Doesn't help its coded in a language only literal boomers know - not to offend the boomers here Smile

    And this talk about stop-gaps, just - no. No military worth its salt would be willing to throw in all its chips in the same fallible basket, not especially the Russians. Drone fighters might work spectacularly well, or they might turn out to be trash, but either way, any sane military ought not to be in the precarious state in the first place.

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    magnumcromagnon
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    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7 - Page 12 Empty Re: Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7

    Post  magnumcromagnon Tue Mar 02, 2021 3:06 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Nomad5891 wrote:
    I do think it is a capable plane, surpassing competition in some areas at just fraction of the cost...but again, it is just too late.

    Too late for what?

    Su-27 also arrived after F-15 and now it's derivatives comprise pretty much entirety of Russian fighter/bomber fleet

    Same role awaits Su-57

    Indeed, and I want to add this is not a dick-stroking, pissing-contest...Ru MOD should procure what they deem (with the proper competent review boards and commissions) to be necessary. The Federation is completely fine and satisfied in maintaining a low debt-to-GDP ratio.

    If they're going to surpass NATOstani's in any field of the military it should be towards strategic thermonuclear weapons, which in no surprise to anyone they've already have done, and continues to do it.
    magnumcromagnon
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    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7 - Page 12 Empty Re: Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7

    Post  magnumcromagnon Tue Mar 02, 2021 5:09 pm

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7 - Page 12 EvVthxTVgAES1la?format=jpg&name=largeSu-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7 - Page 12 EvVtex0VgAEKPuX?format=jpg&name=largeSu-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7 - Page 12 EvVtQvRVEAQ4Uaw?format=jpg&name=largeSu-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7 - Page 12 EvVtG80UcAMjrfE?format=jpg&name=largeSu-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7 - Page 12 EvVtFw1VoAIXEqC?format=jpg&name=largeSu-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7 - Page 12 EvVtIfGU4AAUjeq?format=jpg&name=large

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