Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7

magnumcromagnon wrote:I've been looking forever for this, but thanks to Cyberspec it's been found again finally! Ever wonder why the Su-57 didn't get flat nozzles? Well the USSR developed them and used them on a testbed Su-27, and found that it reduced thrust by a ridiculous 15%, and they actually developed a better solution to reduce thermal signature for the engine nozzles...

Heat / IR sig reduction system for Su-57. According to the chart, it reduces the IR sig from the engine exhaust by 3 - 3.5 times. Details are classified but it's assumed an aerosol substance is injected into the exhaust
via Ru Net


https://twitter.com/Cyberspec1/status/1343322820760141825

I see, can we assume the F-35 is using a similar method.

Will these planes have shelters or will they be parked outside like most Russian planes?

mnztr wrote:Will these planes have shelters or will they be parked outside like most Russian planes?

Some sort of shelters because their "skin" is more sensitive than that of su-27 or mig-29. RAM coatings are sensitive and expensive.

But I doubt they will go for the hard shelters. I rather see them making some inflatable or light hangars just to protect from weather and small drones.

Isos wrote:

mnztr wrote:Will these planes have shelters or will they be parked outside like most Russian planes?

Some sort of shelters because their "skin" is more sensitive than that of su-27 or mig-29. RAM coatings are sensitive and expensive.

But I doubt they will go for the hard shelters. I rather see them making some inflatable or light hangars just to protect from weather and small drones.

Hopefully they will start putting all their aircraft in shelters

What they do now is a travesty

Just because something can be left out in the snow and rain doesn't mean it should be

fan art, but still nice.

Russian Defense Ministry is going to increase purchases of fifth generation Su-57 fighters

"Already, measures are underway to further increase the purchase of Su-57 aircraft, the results of which will be taken into account in the new state armament program," Krivoruchko said in an interview with the official newspaper of the Russian Ministry of Defense "Krasnaya Zvezda".

https://www.militarynews.ru/story.asp?rid=1&nid=543926&lang=RU

That's quite normal. I think they were afraid of the price but now they started to produce them and that the program is stable (not like f-35 that is exponentially growing year after year) they will only buy this aircraft.

Su-35/30 will for sure be replaced by 57 on production lines sooner than expected.

mnztr wrote:Will these planes have shelters or will they be parked outside like most Russian planes?

There were news relatively little time ago about some sort of cover to protect the plane and difficult its detection, some say they referred something like this:



There was also talk about some special inflatable hangars with equipment to check the status of the RAM and eventually repair it.

Isos wrote:That's quite normal. I think they were afraid of the price but now they started to produce them and that the program is stable (not like f-35 that is exponentially growing year after year) they will only buy this aircraft.

Su-35/30 will for sure be replaced by 57 on production lines sooner than expected.

Su-35 yes but not Su-30

Even a quasi-temporary shelter is preferable.   A cover does not protect the aircraft from temperature swings and humidity.
An enclosed space damps temperature variations and controls the humidity level.   Russia can afford such things.

Very interesting, maybe it has been shown before but I did not notice: the Su-57 taking off without even needing to deploy flaps, that is some serious body lift IMHO. Look also the very small deflection of the stabilisators by that angle of attack:

kvs wrote:
Even a quasi-temporary shelter is preferable.   A cover does not protect the aircraft from temperature swings and humidity.
An enclosed space damps temperature variations and controls the humidity level.   Russia can afford such things.

On their permanent bases, for sure. But it is intelligent to think in ways to keep them operational when they need to be dispersed, maybe away from well equipped bases.

AlfaT8 wrote:

magnumcromagnon wrote:I've been looking forever for this, but thanks to Cyberspec it's been found again finally! Ever wonder why the Su-57 didn't get flat nozzles? Well the USSR developed them and used them on a testbed Su-27, and found that it reduced thrust by a ridiculous 15%, and they actually developed a better solution to reduce thermal signature for the engine nozzles...

Heat / IR sig reduction system for Su-57. According to the chart, it reduces the IR sig from the engine exhaust by 3 - 3.5 times. Details are classified but it's assumed an aerosol substance is injected into the exhaust
via Ru Net


https://twitter.com/Cyberspec1/status/1343322820760141825

I see, can we assume the F-35 is using a similar method.

Absolutely not lmao! The creation of aerosols/cosmosols as a means of obscuring detection is a USSR/Russian field of achievement, and the US has almost invested nothing in this field of study....which is amusing considering it's well known that many radar wavelengths, visible and thermal radiation means of detection suffer greatly in bad weather conditions, and these aerosol/cosmosol obscurants recreate these conditions in a very localized space.

PapaDragon wrote:

Isos wrote:

mnztr wrote:Will these planes have shelters or will they be parked outside like most Russian planes?

Some sort of shelters because their "skin" is more sensitive than that of su-27 or mig-29. RAM coatings are sensitive and expensive.

But I doubt they will go for the hard shelters. I rather see them making some inflatable or light hangars just to protect from weather and small drones.

Hopefully they will start putting all their aircraft in shelters

What they do now is a travesty

Just because something can be left out in the snow and rain doesn't mean it should be

Ru MOD has stated that they're heavily investing in the implementation of 3D printing shelters, also on another front Ru MOD also stated they're creating a new institution specifically for building military shelters, based on a non-profit model. So basically this institution will be made to build many military shelters for next to nothing, likely with the aid of 3D printing machines.

An article with some nice sources about the LO design of the Su-57:

https://aviation21.ru/stels-texnologii-su-57-tolko-fakty/

LMFS wrote:An article with some nice sources about the LO design of the Su-57:

https://aviation21.ru/stels-texnologii-su-57-tolko-fakty/

This is very important stuff. Must read.

For anyone who might not know, post the link in the Microsoft Edge browser, and it will auto translate it.

Now imagine how any EM wave entering this cavity will exit it. Line of sight for the radar blocker is not straight to any surface
radar station. Any wave entering at an angle will bounce around inside the duct and that lip on the bottom is not a spurious
decoration but a design element resulting from wave reflection calculations.

PapaDragon wrote:

Isos wrote:

mnztr wrote:Will these planes have shelters or will they be parked outside like most Russian planes?

Some sort of shelters because their "skin" is more sensitive than that of su-27 or mig-29. RAM coatings are sensitive and expensive.

But I doubt they will go for the hard shelters. I rather see them making some inflatable or light hangars just to protect from weather and small drones.

Hopefully they will start putting all their aircraft in shelters

What they do now is a travesty

Just because something can be left out in the snow and rain doesn't mean it should be

Yes it seems quite insane to build a 30-40M plane and cheap out on even a 100K shelter to protect it and allow the techs to work on it properly.

magnumcromagnon wrote:



Ru MOD has stated that they're heavily investing in the implementation of 3D printing shelters, also on another front Ru MOD also stated they're creating a new institution specifically for building military shelters, based on a non-profit model. So basically this institution will be made to build many military shelters for next to nothing, likely with the aid of 3D printing machines.

that would be cool!! They could also make rammed earth shelters and get the civil engineering batallions to build them for super cheap

A house can be build for less than 100k. A shelter is far less expensive if it is simple.

https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/10382481

MOSCOW, December 30. / TASS /. The Ministry of Defense plans to increase the supply of aircraft to the troops, in particular, additional purchases of promising Su-57 fighters are planned. This was announced by Deputy Defense Minister Alexei Krivoruchko in an interview with the Krasnaya Zvezda newspaper.

owais.usmani wrote:https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/10382481

MOSCOW, December 30. / TASS /. The Ministry of Defense plans to increase the supply of aircraft to the troops, in particular, additional purchases of promising Su-57 fighters are planned. This was announced by Deputy Defense Minister Alexei Krivoruchko in an interview with the Krasnaya Zvezda newspaper.

Clearly the planned number is insufficient. Time to shift all 4th generation production to 5th.

Why numbers thrown around in the Russian media and put out from various official sources are never to be taken at face value.

kvs wrote:Why numbers thrown around in the Russian media and put out from various official sources are never to be taken at face value.

Because you now, Russians

It is simply appalling. Some US PR guy says "my plane is -40 dBsm" and automatically anything worse than that is useless shit. No freakin anyone bothers actually understanding that such RCS is not only essentially impossible to achieve on a 20 m long plane full of systems and mechanical, moving elements, but it is even hard to measure properly in an anechoic chamber (!) This is the level of return of a pitot tube or an integrated antenna, any piece of metal of 1cm has that return already (!). The E-2D works in UHF and it can detect stealth and guide missiles to the target, but any Russian radar either cannot detect stealth, or cannot guide missiles, or none of both. No problem taking any crap from Western MIC, but from Russia it all must be lies and disinformation. It is really pathetic.