TOR Air Defence system

TR1 wrote:

Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:

TR1 wrote:Said Aminov posted some very intersting photos of Tor-M2U information plaque .

Including range and target parameters vs targets at different velocities.

Will post tommorow.

While the plaque says Tor-M2U, I thought Tor-M2U was supposed to be the variant shown in the Tor-M2U thread.

I don't remember, what were the visual differences?

Here is the thread.

https://www.russiadefence.net/t3096-tor-m2u-2

Ah yes, thanks.

Here are the plaques from Said:

https://fotki.yandex.ru/next/users/said-aminov/album/455549/view/2205636

For 9M330 missiles, at least according to this poster:

Target moving @ 300 meters per second:
Altitude: 10-10,000 meters.
Range: 1000-12,000 meters.
Don't know exactly how to xlate this one, but it means the direction of the target relative to the launcher: maximum 8000 meters. The bigger, the harder to hit due to radar mechanics.

Target moving @ 700 meters per second:
Altitude: 50-6000 meters.
Range: 1500-7000 meters.
Maximum Target Direction parameter: 6000 meters.

And the rest we know.

Unfortunately for Pantsir there is no such target speed comparison.
https://fotki.yandex.ru/next/users/said-aminov/album/455549/view/2205638

Only maximum target speed: 1000 meters per second, and other figures that we know.

TR1 wrote:Ah yes, thanks.

Here are the plaques from Said:

https://fotki.yandex.ru/next/users/said-aminov/album/455549/view/2205636

For 9M330 missiles, at least according to this poster:

Target moving @ 300 meters per second:
Altitude: 10-10,000 meters.
Range: 1000-12,000 meters.
Don't know exactly how to xlate this one, but it means the direction of the target relative to the launcher: maximum 8000 meters. The bigger, the harder to hit due to radar mechanics.

Target moving @ 700 meters per second:
Altitude: 50-6000 meters.
Range: 1500-7000 meters.
Maximum Target Direction parameter: 6000 meters.

And the rest we know.

Unfortunately for Pantsir there is no such target speed comparison.
https://fotki.yandex.ru/next/users/said-aminov/album/455549/view/2205638

Only maximum target speed: 1000 meters per second, and other figures that we know.

I think предельный курсовой параметр is the maximum horizontal distance to a straight and level course flown by a target at the given speed and altitude that can be successfully engaged in a "guaranteed" manner.

Indeed, that is the correct explanation.
In other words, don't waste a missile on a target that is beyond that figure.

Nice Tor-M1 video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqi84ZPLNr8

In the Astrakhan area within the teachings of anti-aircraft defense of Khabarovsk Krai will hold rocket fire from complexes "Tor M2U." They will destroy the speed target of "Saman" that mimic the cruise missiles.

http://www.rg.ru/2015/05/21/reg-ufo/paketa-anons.html

The military air defense units in the Primorsky Krai started practical development of new anti-aircraft missile systems (SAM) Tor-M2U

Anyone?

Viktor wrote:Anyone?

rough trans?

anti-aircraft complex batch <<Tor-M2DT>>

SAM <<Tor-MDT>> designed for air defense of motorized infantry (tank) brigade in all types of combat and on the march from impact of precision weapons, the aircraft, helicopters, UAVs and TFR, including those made by technology <<steps>> at medium, low and extremely low altitudes in conditions of intensive shooting and radio-optical-electronic counter measures day and night in the far North, Siberia and the far East.

дальность максимальная - the maximum range
дальность минимальная - the minimum range
высота максимальная - the maximum height
высота минимальная  the minimum height
число одновременно обстреливаемых целей - the number of simultaneously fired upon goals/ # of targets that can be serviced simul.
возимый боекомплект зур -  # of missiles

Tnx collegeboy !

Meaning TOR-M2 has 16 ready to fire missiles as opposed 8 in TOR-M2U.

The Tor-M2DT appears to be a variant for cold climates, or perhaps something else. Maybe it will be used to equip the new Arctic brigades.

What I don't understand though is why the Tor-M2U is inferior in specs to the Tor-M2.
Is it a cheaper variant?
Or perhaps the names were confused on the information board?

Isn't Tor-M2U an upgrade of in-service Tor-M1 systems with elements from Tor-M2? Maybe this could explain those specs.

16x missle wow!

new modular design ?

Russia Deploys Advanced Air Defense Tor-M2U to Guard Kuril Islands



The Kuril Islands in Russia's Sakhalin Region form a volcanic archipelago that stretches approximately 1,300 km northeast from Hokkaido, Japan, to Kamchatka, Russia, separating the Sea of Okhotsk from the North Pacific Ocean.

On Wednesday, Russia’s Armed Forces stepped up their combat in the area using the latest anti-missile system ‘Tor-M2U’ in the Kuril Islands, Rossiyskaya Gazeta reported.

Prior to this, for the past six months the soldiers and officers used the air defense system in experimental mode.

The Russian General Staff chose this particular weapon to protect the far eastern borders of Russia due to its combat capabilities. The Tor-M2U refers to a new generation of short-range air defense systems. Its main task is to cover the most important military and government facilities from attack from aircraft, helicopters, cruise missiles and enemy drones.

Each air defense missile system carries eight missiles which are launched vertically. It provides reliable protection against air targets flying at speeds of up to 700 meters per second. It is not only able to detect and identify 48 targets in the sky, but can also automatically determine which of them is the most dangerous.

Once the ‘identification’ is completed, the defense system can simultaneously fire four missiles at the enemy targets. The firing range of the Tor M2U measures from 500 meters to 12 kilometers and the height is from 10 meters to 6 kilometers.

In other words, if a foreign fighter jet, helicopter, small-sized drone or even a reconnaissance balloon comes anywhere near the Kuril Islands it will not go unnoticed. The anti-missile system will ‘see’ the enemy targets in any weather conditions day or night.

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/military/20150924/1027469736/russia-kurile-islands-air-defense-missile-system.html#ixzz3mhA3wZuY

"Russia has successfully conducted live fire tests of its advanced Tor-M2U surface-to-air missile system. What made the test so special is that the missiles were fired on the move!

The Tor-M2U system was designed by the Almaz-Antei Concern to engage planes, helicopters, cruise missiles, precision guided munitions, unmanned aerial vehicles and short-range ballistic threats.
Tor was also the first air defense system in the world designed from the start to shoot down precision guided weapons day and night, in bad weather and jamming situations.
What the system could not do was to fire on the move. The trials were conducted at Kapustin Yar range in Russia’s southern Astrakhan region. Moving at 25 km/h over rought terrain the Tor-M2U managed to spot and destroy the target maneuvering eight kilometers away. According to Almaz-Antei deputy chief designer Pavel Sozinov, the successful test was putting the Tor–M2U on a qualitatively new technological level making it possible to engage aerial targets from a moving position."


Source: http://sputniknews.com/russia/20150926/1027583140/russia-missiles-test.html#ixzz3mrPPlLk4

Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:I don't remember where I got this picture from. It shows a Tor-M2U (Тор-М2У) launcher firing a missile from the 9M338 family.

It is interesting that the launcher covers open in a direction perpendicular to those of the Tor-M1 launchers. It seems the launchers shown during the practice runs for the victory day parade are just Tor-M2 launchers, and similarly those that were at Sochi.

By the way, 10 different new missile types have already been publicized as destined for the Tor-M2U. They are 9М338, 9М338ГН, 9М338Д, 9М338К, 9М338КУД, 9М339, 9М339УД, 9М339К, 9М339КУ, and РЗВ-МД (export model of 9М338К). Many more to be made public in the future.

So it now seems that the above variant and the ones posted here are variants of Tor beyond that of Tor-M2U.

Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:

Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:I don't remember where I got this picture from. It shows a Tor-M2U (Тор-М2У) launcher firing a missile from the 9M338 family.

It is interesting that the launcher covers open in a direction perpendicular to those of the Tor-M1 launchers. It seems the launchers shown during the practice runs for the victory day parade are just Tor-M2 launchers, and similarly those that were at Sochi.

By the way, 10 different new missile types have already been publicized as destined for the Tor-M2U. They are 9М338, 9М338ГН, 9М338Д, 9М338К, 9М338КУД, 9М339, 9М339УД, 9М339К, 9М339КУ, and РЗВ-МД (export model of 9М338К). Many more to be made public in the future.

So it now seems that the above variant and the ones posted here are variants of Tor beyond that of Tor-M2U.

Morpheus, what is the intercept probability of TOR when it is firing on the move?

jhelb wrote:Morpheus, what is the intercept probability of TOR when it is firing on the move?

jhelb,

Considering the various characteristics of Tor, there shouldn't be any measurable difference in its probability of intercept between its firing from stationary and on the move. However, with respect to giving a figure for the probability of intercept, I can't recall of any for the Tor-M2 system and systems beyond that.

jhelb wrote:

Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:

Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:I don't remember where I got this picture from. It shows a Tor-M2U (Тор-М2У) launcher firing a missile from the 9M338 family.

It is interesting that the launcher covers open in a direction perpendicular to those of the Tor-M1 launchers. It seems the launchers shown during the practice runs for the victory day parade are just Tor-M2 launchers, and similarly those that were at Sochi.

By the way, 10 different new missile types have already been publicized as destined for the Tor-M2U. They are 9М338, 9М338ГН, 9М338Д, 9М338К, 9М338КУД, 9М339, 9М339УД, 9М339К, 9М339КУ, and РЗВ-МД (export model of 9М338К). Many more to be made public in the future.

So it now seems that the above variant and the ones posted here are variants of Tor beyond that of Tor-M2U.

Morpheus, what is the intercept probability of TOR when it is firing on the move?

No difference really. Things that made various older systems incapable of firing on the move were vehicles that couldnt handle it properly, cables that had to be layed between modules, bulky missiles, some systems couldnt even move with missiles in "ready" position, had very little to do with precision or intercept probability.

on the move... and some other sams were practiced
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoDDGurUoFI

Rmf wrote:on the move... and some other sams were practiced
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoDDGurUoFI

Awesome. Now waiting to see if the Buk-M3 can pull off the same feat..

Thanks Morpheus & Militarov

Militarov wrote:
No difference really. Things that made various older systems incapable of firing on the move were vehicles that couldnt handle it properly, cables that had to be layed between modules, bulky missiles, some systems couldnt even move with missiles in "ready" position, had very little to do with precision or intercept probability.

So why are 10 different missiles destined for Tor? It just can't be about the range,right?

jhelb wrote:Thanks Morpheus & Militarov

Militarov wrote:
No difference really. Things that made various older systems incapable of firing on the move were vehicles that couldnt handle it properly, cables that had to be layed between modules, bulky missiles, some systems couldnt even move with missiles in "ready" position, had very little to do with precision or intercept probability.

So why are 10 different missiles destined for Tor? It just can't be about the range,right?

Newer missiles are smaller, propelants technology got better, naturally older missiles that are still in service wont be just thrown away, they will be used till their storage time ends. 9M331, 9M338, 9M338GN, 9M338D, 9M338K, 9M338KUD, 9M339, 9M339D, 9M339KU, 9M339UD, and P3B-MD. Some are "old", some are "new", some are export variants... naturally though time they increased their speed, agility, hit probability, did changes on warhead to deal better with UAVs, PGMs...

"As a fully mobile system, the Tor is capable of acquiring and tracking targets while the TLAR is moving. Due, however, to the interference with launch operations while on the move, missiles can be fired only when the system is in a stationary position. "

flamming_python wrote:

Rmf wrote:on the move... and some other sams were practiced
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoDDGurUoFI

Awesome. Now waiting to see if the Buk-M3 can pull off the same feat..

why dont they install active suspension systems ,its far from combat ,with hydraulic shock absorbers`for smooth ride , that would make it much better.