Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues
Big_Gazza dislikes this post
GarryB likes this post
Arrow wrote:No Yasen M is cheaper than Virginia SSN. Yasen M costs about $ 800 million and Virginia about $ 2.5 billion.
dino00, Big_Gazza, Backman and Lurk83 dislike this post
Singular_trafo wrote:Arrow wrote:No Yasen M is cheaper than Virginia SSN. Yasen M costs about $ 800 million and Virginia about $ 2.5 billion.
So, you want to say:
1. VIRGINA three times more capable than YASEN
OR
2. Russiacan make one Virginia for the resources of one Yassen
OR
3. The USAcan make three Yasen class from the money required for one Virginia?
Big_Gazza likes this post
Singular_trafo wrote:Arrow wrote:No Yasen M is cheaper than Virginia SSN. Yasen M costs about $ 800 million and Virginia about $ 2.5 billion.
So, you want to say:
1. VIRGINA three times more capable than YASEN
OR
2. Russiacan make one Virginia for the resources of one Yassen
OR
3. The USAcan make three Yasen class from the money required for one Virginia?
Lurk83 wrote:Wtf did I just read?
GarryB likes this post
dino00 dislikes this post
Isos wrote:You should stop drugs.
And why do you use 2 accounts ?
dino00 dislikes this post
Isos wrote:Russia doesn't use dollars in its MiC industry for domestic market. Your conversion is pointless.
Typhoons are finished (and were expensive as well) and Deltas have been ridden hard and put away wet
Yassen at least two times more expensive than Virginia.
Twice as many fighter jet could be bought from a yassen price than from a Virginia cost.
It means Russia can make twice as many sun if they choose the Virginia design.
So, you want to say:
1. VIRGINA three times more capable than YASEN
OR
2. Russiacan make one Virginia for the resources of one Yassen
3. The USAcan make three Yasen class from the money required for one Virginia?
Ok, I repeat it again :
The Yassen is three times more expensive than the Virginia class.
Using the current exchange rate doesn't tell anything about the ships or any other parameter.
The Russian GDP is 1500 billion USD the USA is about 20 000 billion, means USA can affor 10 000 Virginias, Russia can afford 1 875 Yasen.
If we compare the price of the ships to the number of fighter jets that can be purchased from the money then the Yassen cost twice as more than the Virginia.
Means the Russian industrial capacity is not far away per capita from the USA one, it is somewhere between 100-70%.
And it means that the Yasen is at least two, possible three times more compicated/advanced than the Virginia.
My point is, the real value of it coudl be in the range of 4-6 billion if the USA MIC has to manufacture it (ok, maybe 4-12 billion ), without development cost.
The US adds so much crap into its GDP numbers they get inflated beyond other countries.
Sure Yasen is cheaper than a Virginia but that's really due to the amount of spending available to each country.
If the Russian budget was the size of the US, they would be charging an ass-ton more for a Yasen.
Long story short the US can afford 2B per submarine, Russia cannot and so the shipyards have to price accordingly.
SeigSoloyvov wrote:Why all this arguing about price?. If you wanna use price as the factor for how good a sub is then by that standard Virginia is superior, but I don't know how each submarine compare so I ain't going to talk out my ass.
Any clown who says one is better than the other is talking out their ass, its simple no one on this forum has access to classified information. I have no doubt each sub is better and worse than the others in specific ways.
Sure Yasen is cheaper than a Virginia but that's really due to the amount of spending available to each country.
Russia has a much smaller military budget, so the companies cannot afford to make a Yasen cost 2B the Russians would never buy them at that price.
Setting a price is always determined by the scale of the budget you expect a client to have available. If the Russian budget was the size of the US, they would be charging an ass-ton more for a Yasen.
Long story short the US can afford 2B per submarine, Russia cannot and so the shipyards have to price accordingly.
SeigSoloyvov wrote:No, they wouldn't Russian workers are paid much less than their American counterparts in this field for example. Countries have their own ways to price things.
There is no set standard for how much it costs to build a ship, it will always vary from country from to country
We could make a submarine-like a Yasen and we have.
SeigSoloyvov wrote:
My point is very simple, the shipyards cannot afford to ask 2B per Yasen the Russians would refuse to buy them.
If you open a business and a shipyard is a business, you need to look take into account how much money you can expect a customer to pay per unit.
This is basic economics.
Russian military budget is only so big, and a small part of that goes to the navy. So if you can expect X amount of funds, you need to work along that pricing line.
SeigSoloyvov wrote:N
We could make a submarine-like a Yasen and we have.
SeigSoloyvov wrote:Are you high?, Trying to suggest the US can't afford to make a submarine with VLS?. With have made Submarines with VLS systems. The Virginias have VLS...for fucks sake lol you off meds or something?
Um, Seawolf production stopped when the USSR fell apart, That was the main reason why the class stopped not because of unit cost.
SeigSoloyvov wrote:
Learn basic history before you try and talk down to others it makes you look like an ignorant moron.
or are you trying to say the US can't make a submarine for the price the shipyards charge Russia for Yasen?. If so I explained this already.
SeigSoloyvov wrote: If the Russian budget was the size of the US, they would be charging an ass-ton more for a Yasen.
SeigSoloyvov wrote:Ahuh I didn't know you can see into the future Singular to say what the sub can and cannot use, man, can you send me the lotto numbers? for the next few months. Thanks.
Joking aside you're talking out your ass, lets be real you don't know and will never know what weapons the submarine will have through its lifespan.
Your some guy on the web with no experience in submarines or weapon production or anything else in these matters and you're going to sit there and try and tell me? what weapons the sub may or may not be able to use.
Lol it's hilarious you expect me to take that seriously.
You, armchair experts, will always amuse me.
SeigSoloyvov wrote:
Has for cost that is a far more complex issue than you will ever realize, the Zums were canceled because per unit they were too expensive that much is true.
SeigSoloyvov wrote:
Yes, things cost more in the US congrats! do you want a cookie for figuring this out?.
In the end it means nothing tho, we can produce those billions of dollars ships.
So this stupid point your trying to argue amounts to nothing.
So, you say that as well because the ruble usd exchange rate collapsed ,and the Yasen cost went doown from the 2008 exchange rate 2.4 billion USD to 0.8 billion USD the capability of the Virignia imporved threefold thanks to exhange rate movement ?
The USA can't afford to make submarines like the Yasen, it is too expensive,and would leave all carrier strike group without sub escort.
To compare them to each other same tweaking and coordinate system transformation required.
The Seawolf was the closest equivalent (without hypersonic capable vertical launch tubes) , and they had to scrap the project after three unit due to the extremly high cost.
Means a 0.5 tons tomahawk missile will cost the same per kg like a 13 tons F-15 jet or a 28 tons 737.
It means the smaller half as big ship cost half as much as the bigger one, and the bigger one is more capable than the smaller one (due to the engine-size relations of ships).
What Yasen needs are numbers. Currently US has 19 Virginia and 3 Seawolf. Currently there is only 1 Yasen.
In the end it means nothing tho, we can produce those billions of dollars ships.
Or because they don't have ammunition for the main gun, and without that the ship is can't show anything than inferrior capabilities compared to the Burke, for mor than twice as much?
Home
Latest images
Register
Log in
Arrow