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New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

Gomig-21

Gomig-21: Posts : 746
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Post n°326

Re: New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

Gomig-21 Sun Jul 18, 2021 7:40 pm

Backman wrote:Look at the front a little closer. That top intake line is still there. The intake does still come around the top half I think..

Is this some side weapons bay ?

Love that splatter paint camo theme and how it drips a little bit around that center stealth edge or chine and onto the underside at the rear and the front. Some neat, creativity with the patterning.

It seems like the more we see and some questions are answered, the more questions we seem to have! lol
I'm still wondering like you why some are thinking this is a mockup and not a prototype? What's the giveaway that it's not a fully functioning aircraft at this point?

Backman likes this post

Dima

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Post n°327

Re: New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

Dima Sun Jul 18, 2021 7:42 pm

Gomig-21 wrote:However, it just dawned on me that it seems Rostec has already taken the initiative away from NATO IMO by possibly calling it the "Checkmate"? That name seems to be attached to it on other forums where it's been talked about like crazy and simply referred to as Checkmate. This might've been on purpose or unintentional, but giving it an original name will negate others from having to do so. Most of all past Russian aircraft are only designations such as Su-XX or MiG-XX but never given a name, until maybe now? Can we conclude it's called the Checkmate by Rostec & Sukhoi, or does Checkmate refer to something else?

Good one. I hope it really is.

Till now the otan fellows have been naming Russian a/c as per their taste. The last one being the otan FELONs stamping their name on Su-57 and embarrassingly, even the online Russian supporters and fanboys delightedly using that name for Su-57.

Lets see if the perverts will stick to the CHECKMATE name, if its the official one for this a/c, or if they will be pulling another one out of their ar$e to satisfy their ego.

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Isos

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Post n°328

Re: New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

Isos Sun Jul 18, 2021 7:51 pm

Checkmate isn't the name of the aircraft. Just a marketing name for the upcoming presentation.

Btw could you guys stop posting those fan made "prototypes". They all suck and are boring. Just wait for the presentation.

Dima

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Post n°329

Re: New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

Dima Sun Jul 18, 2021 8:03 pm

Mir wrote:I still think the intake can extend further upwards though but nice render!

The wing is a real surprise to me and I had a close look at it from what is available and I think the basic shape from above could look something like this? >>

https://i.servimg.com/u/f87/20/34/80/58/75-win10.jpg

Looks like the intake lips extending further above near to the cockpit, but could be just an illusion?

Backman wrote:Look at the front a little closer. That top intake line is still there. The intake does still come around the top half I think..

Is this some side weapons bay ?

It does look like a side bay and that too inside and starting with the LERX.

JohninMK

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Post n°330

Re: New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

JohninMK Sun Jul 18, 2021 8:43 pm

Dima wrote:
Till now the otan fellows have been naming Russian a/c as per their taste. The last one being the otan FELONs stamping their name on Su-57 and embarrassingly, even the online Russian supporters and fanboys delightedly using that name for Su-57.

Lets see if the perverts will stick to the CHECKMATE name, if its the official one for this a/c, or if they will be pulling another one out of their ar$e to satisfy their ego.

Nothing to do with ego. NATO has a logical naming strategy. This aircraft will have a name starting with F as it is a fighter.

As a native English speaker I think that Felon is a brilliant name. Its going to arrive without giving itself away and steal all their goodies. Certainly better than Flogger.

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LMFS

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Post n°331

Re: New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

LMFS Sun Jul 18, 2021 8:51 pm

Considering the latest length estimations (ca. 17 m) as reasonably accurate, and checking in the model the position of the engine and likely rear end of the nose wheel well, there is indeed space in between for a ca. 4.5 m ventral weapons bay like that of the Su-57. Now we just need to wait a bit more and hope the next updates can get that confirmed or denied

medo

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Post n°332

Re: New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

medo Sun Jul 18, 2021 8:53 pm

This name Checkmate could as well be simply Chess. In russian "шахматы" (shahmati) is chess in english. Putin practically play chess with the west, so who knows, what Russians have in mind here...

PapaDragon

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Post n°333

Re: New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

PapaDragon Sun Jul 18, 2021 9:00 pm

LMFS wrote:Considering the latest length estimations (ca. 17 m) as reasonably accurate, and checking in the model the position of the engine and likely rear end of the nose wheel well, there is indeed space in between for a ca. 4.5 m ventral weapons bay like that of the Su-57. Now we just need to wait a bit more and hope the next updates can get that confirmed or denied

17m is also same as MiG-29K so looks like additional (granted much smaller) amount of lunch money that Sukhoi will swipe from MiG

medo

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Post n°334

Re: New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

medo Sun Jul 18, 2021 9:03 pm

Atmosphere

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Post n°335

Re: New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

Atmosphere Sun Jul 18, 2021 9:03 pm

Regarding the F-16.net/"it's a remplacement" drivel,

You need to be stupid to think that an aircraft would be replaced by another aircraft that belongs to a totally different niche, made for a totally different purpose,

But you need to be exceptionally stupid to miss the fact that the US thought of an F-16 replacement that is not the F-35, yet totally falls within that category, and not make that "oh they are replacing it because it's bad" in this Much more fitting situation.

That's why you don't go to Reddit, F-16.net, and YouTube comments. As LMFS said, it has reached inconceivable levels of dogmatism.

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Finty

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Post n°336

Re: New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

Finty Sun Jul 18, 2021 9:08 pm

JohninMK wrote:

Dima wrote:
Till now the otan fellows have been naming Russian a/c as per their taste. The last one being the otan FELONs stamping their name on Su-57 and embarrassingly, even the online Russian supporters and fanboys delightedly using that name for Su-57.

Lets see if the perverts will stick to the CHECKMATE name, if its the official one for this a/c, or if they will be pulling another one out of their ar$e to satisfy their ego.

Nothing to do with ego. NATO has a logical naming strategy. This aircraft will have a name starting with F as it is a fighter.

As a native English speaker I think that Felon is a brilliant name. Its going to arrive without giving itself away and steal all their goodies. Certainly better than Flogger.

Exactly. Personally I think Felon is a pretty good name, as are Fulcrum, Foxhound and Bear. Fagot less so!

LMFS

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Post n°337

Re: New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

LMFS Sun Jul 18, 2021 9:09 pm

PapaDragon wrote:17m is also same as MiG-29K so looks like additional (granted much smaller) amount of lunch money that Sukhoi will swipe from MiG

Same as MiG-29 in general, but LTS seems more streamlined indeed and hopefully manages to save some weight in comparison. We still need to see whether the nose wheel supported on the intake can be made strong enough for catapult launch, that would be indeed a demanding requirement. In general, the plane without foreplanes or LEVCONS is not as optimized for low speed flight and high AoA as Su-33 or PAK-FA, so it is not self evidently an ideal naval plane, beyond the very robust main landing gear. But on the other hand the wings seem relatively big, if they indeed measure 12 m they should create a lot of lift for the landing, similarly to what happens in the F-35C. I did not check that wingspan estimation BTW.

Atmosphere wrote:Regarding the F-16.net/"it's a remplacement" drivel,

You need to be stupid to think that an aircraft would be replaced by another aircraft that belongs to a totally different niche, made for a totally different purpose,

But you need to be exceptionally stupid to miss the fact that the US thought of an F-16 replacement that is not the F-35, yet totally falls within that category, and not make that "oh they are replacing it because it's bad" in this Much more fitting situation.

That's why you don't go to Reddit, F-16.net, and YouTube comments. As LMFS said, it has reached inconceivable levels of dogmatism.

Exactly. F-16 is not a replacement of F-15, F-35 does not replace F-22 and LTS dos not replace Su-57. This is truly no-brainer level of understanding of the topic, but there you are... I go to some of those places you mention quite honestly not in search of information, but just for fun and to challenge my capacity to be surprised, and boy they manage to come up with shit I would never manage to make up! Laughing

As to the recent pictures: there is quite a bit of perspective distortion, particularly the nose seems much shorter than in the pictures we saw from afar with the cover.

Last edited by LMFS on Sun Jul 18, 2021 9:15 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Finty

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Post n°338

Re: New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

Finty Sun Jul 18, 2021 9:12 pm

Not a bad looking thing, I like the digital camo scheme but it looks like the offspring of an F35 and X32, one of the ugliest planes ever conceived. Hopefully it performs better than it looks!

dino00

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Post n°339

Re: New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

dino00 Sun Jul 18, 2021 9:21 pm

How many kh-58/59 Mini gzur per plane 2 or 4?

LMFS

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Post n°340

Re: New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

LMFS Sun Jul 18, 2021 9:24 pm

dino00 wrote:How many kh-58/59 Mini gzur per plane 2 or 4?

My bet, based on the checks I did, is 2x A2G sized pieces of ordnance. Say Kh-69, GROM, Kh-58 and the whole range of internal carriage weapons developed for the Su-57. But just one bay instead of 2, of course...

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medo

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Post n°341

Re: New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

medo Sun Jul 18, 2021 9:29 pm

I wonder, what share of composits will be in this plane. Russia already made composit wing for their MS-21 passenger plane and I'm sure that share of composits in this plane will be larger than in Su-57. Composits well reduce weight comparing to metals and made plane more smooth.

dino00 wrote:How many kh-58/59 Mini gzur per plane 2 or 4?

It's actually interesting, that they place this old Kh-59 there. If they could place this missile inside, that it actually have very big weapon bay. Su-57 use new stealth Kh-59MK2, which take far less space in weapon bay.

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Mir

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Post n°342

Re: New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

Mir Sun Jul 18, 2021 9:37 pm

LMFS wrote:
As to the recent pictures: there is quite a bit of perspective distortion, particularly the nose seems much shorter than in the pictures we saw from afar with the cover.

There was some wide angle lens used yes.

Mir

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Post n°343

Re: New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

Mir Sun Jul 18, 2021 9:40 pm

Finty wrote:Not a bad looking thing, I like the digital camo scheme but it looks like the offspring of an F35 and X32, one of the ugliest planes ever conceived. Hopefully it performs better than it looks!

Thank goodness the 75 doesn't look like a bloated fish to me! Laughing

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JohninMK

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Post n°344

Re: New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

JohninMK Sun Jul 18, 2021 9:50 pm

Finty wrote:

JohninMK wrote:

As a native English speaker I think that Felon is a brilliant name. Its going to arrive without giving itself away and steal all their goodies. Certainly better than Flogger.

Exactly. Personally I think Felon is a pretty good name, as are Fulcrum, Foxhound and Bear. Fagot less so!

For those of you not deep into the English language, the word fagot (faggot) has several meanings, including

- a bit like a beefburger only made with offal (liver, heart, kidneys etc)

- a bundle of twigs or small branches

- an insulting name for a male homosexual.

Quite why the Mig-15 got it I don't know.

LMFS

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Post n°345

Re: New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

LMFS Sun Jul 18, 2021 9:52 pm

Couple more notes before we see the real thing in all its glory:

- The wing shape should be quite similar to that of the Su-57, minus the dent for the horizontal stabilizer. It indeed seems to have one L-band array and the wing tips are equipped with very similar dielectric fairings for ECM/ESM. I don't consider proved that the trailing edge is looking directly back and not angled, as it would make more sense for RCS reasons.
- The dent in the canted tails, which is almost identical to that in the Su-57, is normally there to prevent the all moving surface from colliding with other control surface. In the PAK-FA the surface is external (horizontal tails), in LTS it seems they are intern. And in fact they seem relatively bigger than in MFI and placed quite backwards, so they are expected to have a certain authority and therefore be relevant for the control of the plane.
- The main issue with ventral intakes is that the radar needs to be much smaller in the vertical axis. The nose is made wider to compensate for that (though the vertical discrimination remains worse), but here also care is needed to avoid making the plane to difficult to pitch because of the nose being too heavy and draggy re. vertical movement. Having the intake so forward placed, maybe the DSI bump is used to gain some vertical space for the radar. but still it should be substantially smaller than that of the Su-57, which is quite acceptable given the philosophy of the plane.

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George1

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Post n°346

Re: New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

George1 Sun Jul 18, 2021 10:12 pm

maybe it is a smaller Su-57 with bigger weapons bay? Question

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Isos

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Post n°347

Re: New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

Isos Sun Jul 18, 2021 10:28 pm

George1 wrote:maybe it is a smaller Su-57 with bigger weapons bay?

I think it has only the two weapon bays on the side. Big weapons will go under the wings.

In the middle there is no space. The engine takes it all.

There is no way to fit a kh-59 in that plane.

thegopnik

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Post n°348

Re: New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

thegopnik Sun Jul 18, 2021 11:00 pm

its midnight in russia Shocked

Backman

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Post n°349

Re: New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

Backman Sun Jul 18, 2021 11:03 pm

@Gomig
Yeah. How many mock ups have a functional canopy ? And landing gear doors ? This is probably a stationary test bed. To see how everything fits.

Not quite a flying prototype but certainly not 3D vaporeware like we've seen of the Tempest , Fcas and TFX

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LMFS

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Post n°350

Re: New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

LMFS Sun Jul 18, 2021 11:08 pm

Trolling the trolls Razz

BTW, I feel totally vindicated with that tail!!

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