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    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

    dino00
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    Post  dino00 Tue Jul 20, 2021 5:54 pm

    ZHUKOVSKY (Moscow region), July 20 - RIA Novosti . Russia's newest light tactical fighter, Checkmate, may be named the Su-75 in the Russian market, the aircraft's deputy chief designer, Alexei Bulatov, told reporters on Tuesday.
    "The number 75 on board is 57 on the contrary. This is a lucky number ... this is an addition to this aircraft ... while this is a number, it needs time," Bulatov said at the presentation of the new fighter at the MAKS-2021 air show.

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    Post  dino00 Tue Jul 20, 2021 5:56 pm

    medo wrote:New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 24 Img_2010

    Izd.30 engine.

    Chezemov said it will use the first stage engine, maybe at the beginning.
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    Post  mnztr Tue Jul 20, 2021 6:12 pm

    dino00 wrote:Zhukovsky (Moscow region). July 20. INTERFAX - Russia's new Checkmate light fighter is ready for testing.
         
    "Checkmate was built in record time and is ready to start testing," reads the presentation


    END OF STORY

    Testing is not the same as flight testing.
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    Post  Broski Tue Jul 20, 2021 6:14 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:
    Broski wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:If it's using Su-57 parts, it shouldn't take nearly that long to build prototypes or get it ready for production
    Russia doesn't have a $750B defense budget, so they have to take the time to make sure their hardware actually works properly.

    That isn't how it works.  Please learn before speaking.

    The jet is using parts from a production running (early) jet, meaning there is less time needed as well time between tests to production.  I do know this kind of stuff since my job (manufacturing).

    That timeframe is something for brand new. And since Dinoo posted what Interfax states, I'm correct.
    Unless you work in Sukhoi's production factory, I don't think you're qualified to tell us how long they should take to get a fundamentally new aircraft (single engine, stealthy profile, unmanned and manned flight options) from prototype to production. Between the second stage engines from the su-57 and state trials which can last for years, the timeframe given isn't unreasonable and shows just how far Russia's come since the Soviet Union's collapse in the 90's.
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    Post  tomazy Tue Jul 20, 2021 6:27 pm

    dino00 wrote:
    medo wrote:New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 24 Img_2010

    Izd.30 engine.

    Chezemov said it will use the first stage engine, maybe at the beginning.

    Maybe for foren markets, and Izd.30 for domestic models? The nozzle on the display is izd.30 for sure.
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    Post  dino00 Tue Jul 20, 2021 6:29 pm

    As, in turn, said Deputy Chief Designer of Checkmate Alexey Bulatov, the first flight will be performed by the machine presented at MAKS-2021. "There is a sample in front of you - this is not just a model, it is not just a demonstrator. It is an aircraft that will take off into the air. Of course, work is needed to prepare it for flight. In less than a year, we will have completed static tests of the aircraft, which will allow us to start organizing the first flight, "Bulatov added.

    https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/11946397

    I will gladly eat my arm Very Happy

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    Post  medo Tue Jul 20, 2021 6:34 pm

    mnztr wrote:
    dino00 wrote:Zhukovsky (Moscow region). July 20. INTERFAX - Russia's new Checkmate light fighter is ready for testing.
         
    "Checkmate was built in record time and is ready to start testing," reads the presentation


    END OF STORY

    Testing is not the same as flight testing.

    Of course not. This one is for ground and static testing, which have to be done before first flight. It goes step by step and they are far further than paperwork and plywood model. All developments and tests of components are done and they made a real plane, that they could start tests with a plane as a whole. When this is done, plane will start flying. 2023 for first flight is quite realistic. In that time they will produce flying prototype as this one will most probably be broken through static tests.

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    Post  Kiko Tue Jul 20, 2021 6:41 pm

    Weapon of the future, today: Russia unveils ‘Checkmate’, new 5th-generation lightweight stealth fighter, unmanned version in works, 20.07.2021.

    Sukhoi and the Russian military-industrial conglomerate Rostec have revealed a single-engine supersonic stealth fighter. Dubbed ‘Checkmate’, the new design resembles the US F-35, but is intended to be superior – and far cheaper.

    Unveiled at the MAKS 2021 Air Show in Moscow on Tuesday, the Checkmate uses technologies tested under real-world combat conditions. Digital design helped Sukhoi develop it in record time.

    While the computer-assisted development process only took about a year, the first test flight is not expected until 2023, with further prototypes being produced through 2025, with the goal of serial production starting as early as 2026.

    The jet is intended to be stealthy, usable under almost any weather conditions and deployed in any climate. It is supposed to be capable of continuous supersonic flight, at speeds of up to Mach 1.8, and operating in conditions of enemy air superiority.

    According to Rostec, the Checkmate is supposed to have a range of up to 2,800 kilometers (1,740 miles) and a maximum payload capacity of 7,400 kilograms (16,300 pounds).

    Checkmate is intended to be capable of short – but not vertical – takeoff, and is fitted with modular weapon bays that can be equipped with the full array of current anti-aircraft missiles, gun pods, bombs, and guided missiles. A drone version is also currently under development.

    Between its general shape, single-engine configuration, and even the computerized logistics system – dubbed ‘Matryoshka’ after the famous Russian nesting dolls – the new jet has drawn comparisons to Lockheed Martin’s F-35 Lightning II joint strike fighter. However, Sukhoi and Rostec insist it is “in principle a completely different airplane.”

    “It is a unique airplane,” they told reporters, adding that the Checkmate is faster, has longer range, smaller radar signature, and can carry more ordnance than the F-35.

    Rostec head Sergey Chemezov told reporters behind the scenes that the Checkmate is intended to be a more effective and affordable alternative to the F-35, SAAB’s Gripen, and France’s Dassault Rafale, which cost from $60 to $90 million apiece.

    "Our price, I hope, will be between $25 and $30 million each,” Chemezov said.

    Market analysis has projected a demand of about 300 planes from existing export clients in Asia, Middle East, Africa, Europe, and Latin America, United Aircraft Corporation CEO Yury Slyusar said at the show.

    While the number shown on the body of the jet at the MAKS-2021 hangar has led to speculation that the Checkmate will be designated Su-75, Sukhoi’s representatives dispelled the rumors, saying that the company considers those numbers “lucky.” As the Russian Aerospace Forces have not yet signed a contract for the new jet, it has not been given an official designation.

    https://www.rt.com/russia/529762-check-mate-fighter-stealth-jet/

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    Post  Isos Tue Jul 20, 2021 6:43 pm

    Yeah so it's not a flying prototype. They gave the dates on the presentation and it will be ready when they finish delivering the 76 su-57 in 2027.

    At the end it is still in big competition with all the aircraft being developed if they respect timelines which unlikely for most of them but japanese and Dassault programs.

    Price is attractive but that will be just procurement price. Operational and maintenance cost will be a margin higher than what it was for mig-29. Ram, internal weapons, shitton of electronics... all that has a cost.
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    Post  kvs Tue Jul 20, 2021 6:55 pm

    dino00 wrote:The aviation complex has been designed, its characteristics have been confirmed by a full range of virtual tests, and strength static tests will soon be carried out

    https://tass.ru/interviews/11944415

    So they have dynamical models of all the parts (including the "screws") of this aircraft and can test it on supercomputers.
    Sukhoi is operating at the state of the art level. All the plywood retards can go and eat shit.

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    Post  kvs Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:00 pm

    Isos wrote:Yeah so it's not a flying prototype. They gave the dates on the presentation and it will be ready when they finish delivering the 76 su-57 in 2027.

    At the end it is still in big competition with all the aircraft being developed if they respect timelines which unlikely for most of them but japanese and Dassault programs.

    Price is attractive but that will be just procurement price. Operational and maintenance cost will be a margin higher than what it was for mig-29. Ram, internal weapons, shitton of electronics... all that has a cost.

    It is still a prototype and given the level of CAD used to produce it there is not as much need to refine the design for flight testing.
    They know the performance of all of its parts as part of the integrated whole under the regime of flight. This may be "virtual"
    testing but it is not a hack or a guess. They have detailed, empirically derived models of the parts.

    The recycling of Su-57 parts is one of the reasons they have such parts models. Of course real world testing is still required,
    but there is much less iteration of design and testing.

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    Post  LMFS Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:06 pm

    Thanks to Mach42 for this!


    And also for this!
    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 24 2021-010

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    Post  Atmosphere Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:09 pm

    Under the aircraft, look closely, there's either a 101KS-U aperture or a similar looking system.

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    Post  slasher Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:15 pm

    dino00 wrote:As, in turn, said Deputy Chief Designer of Checkmate Alexey Bulatov, the first flight will be performed by the machine presented at MAKS-2021. "There is a sample in front of you - this is not just a model, it is not just a demonstrator. It is an aircraft that will take off into the air. Of course, work is needed to prepare it for flight. In less than a year, we will have completed static tests of the aircraft, which will allow us to start organizing the first flight, "Bulatov added.

    https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/11946397

    I will gladly eat my arm Very Happy

    As, in turn, said Deputy Chief Designer of Checkmate Alexey Bulatov, the first flight will be performed by the machine presented at MAKS-2021.
    Wow... according to the Deputy Chief Designer, this baby is a heck of a lot readier than most guesses! He's very clear that THIS aircraft shown is very much a functional prototype that is intended to be put to the skies. Bravo and well done guys! thumbsup
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    Post  kvs Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:17 pm

    The statement quoted previously that it is ready to fly is not hot air.   It can fly but why risk a failure without proper testing.    This
    thing is no Ukr papier-mache propaganda stunt.

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    Post  slasher Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:32 pm

    kvs wrote:The statement quoted previously that it is ready to fly is not hot air.   It can fly but why risk a failure without proper testing.    This
    thing is no Ukr papier-mache propaganda stunt.

    Perhaps they should try plywd then. Plywd files! cheers



    Last edited by slasher on Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:35 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  medo Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:32 pm

    Deputy was clear. This plane will fly, when it will finish all ground and static tests. This is precondition for the first flight. So it is first and mostly ground and static test prototype.

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    Post  dino00 Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:33 pm

    This is the export version. All the weapons are the export ones, so all the characteristics are the downgraded export version.
    If the foreign price is 25/30 million$, imagine the Russian one

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    Post  Backman Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:42 pm

    Are we going to whinge about phase one engine on this thing too ? Go watch the latest su 57 take off and tell me this engine isn't good enough

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    Post  Isos Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:56 pm

    kvs wrote:
    Isos wrote:Yeah so it's not a flying prototype. They gave the dates on the presentation and it will be ready when they finish delivering the 76 su-57 in 2027.

    At the end it is still in big competition with all the aircraft being developed if they respect timelines which unlikely for most of them but japanese and Dassault programs.

    Price is attractive but that will be just procurement price. Operational and maintenance cost will be a margin higher than what it was for mig-29. Ram, internal weapons, shitton of electronics... all that has a cost.

    It is still a prototype and given the level of CAD used to produce it there is not as much need to refine the design for flight testing.
    They know the performance of all of its parts as part of the integrated whole under the regime of flight.   This may be "virtual"
    testing but it is not a hack or a guess.   They have detailed, empirically derived models of the parts.    

    The recycling of Su-57 parts is one of the reasons they have such parts models.   Of course real world testing is still required,
    but there is much less iteration of design and testing.


    What I am saying is that they said it will be ready in 2027 for production so either this one is or not a prototype that doesn't change the fact that it won't be sellable for another 5 or 6 years.

    So they presented it as a quick solution to get a cheap single engine modern mig-21 but it won't be ready for years and clients may turn their eyes somewhere else or spend their money in their own projects.

    IMO there was too much hurry in the resentation and they should have waited to have a flyable prototype.

    Now you can be sure China, US and europeans will put more money in their program to sell their stuff first because this Chessmate has a big potentiel if it becomes ready before their own products.
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    Post  dino00 Tue Jul 20, 2021 8:12 pm

    "An important advantage of the new aircraft is the low cost of a flight hour. This is often a decisive moment for success in the market. Our forecast is about 7 times less than that of an aircraft such as the F-35, and is comparable to the cost of a flight hour of the Gripen NG. At the same time, the combat capabilities of the Checkmate LTS are significantly higher than the latter, "Slyusar said in an interview with Interfax.

    https://www.militarynews.ru/story.asp?rid=1&nid=553526&lang=RU

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    Post  Hole Tue Jul 20, 2021 8:15 pm

    New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021 - Page 24 Sujoi_10

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    Post  Atmosphere Tue Jul 20, 2021 8:24 pm

    An empty gripen weighs less than 7 tons.
    This aircraft is smaller, with inevitably lower weight of the components and probably even structural materials due to the inevitable lightening that cames with the massive time gap between the two planes, and the fact that checkmate derives dieectly from one of the highest profile projects the UAC has been involved with.

    So with that in mind, even the 15T class 117 would give it very high t/w, let alone Izd.30 which would turn in into a controllable rocket rather than an airplane.

    I mean imagine 18-19T of thrust for an airplane that would weigh no more than a gripen. With the advantages that would come with less control surfaces, advanced flight controls, and 40 years of aerodynamic refinment since the Su-27.
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    Post  miketheterrible Tue Jul 20, 2021 8:38 pm

    Broski wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:
    Broski wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:If it's using Su-57 parts, it shouldn't take nearly that long to build prototypes or get it ready for production
    Russia doesn't have a $750B defense budget, so they have to take the time to make sure their hardware actually works properly.

    That isn't how it works.  Please learn before speaking.

    The jet is using parts from a production running (early) jet, meaning there is less time needed as well time between tests to production.  I do know this kind of stuff since my job (manufacturing).

    That timeframe is something for brand new. And since Dinoo posted what Interfax states, I'm correct.
    Unless you work in Sukhoi's production factory, I don't think you're qualified to tell us how long they should take to get a fundamentally new aircraft (single engine, stealthy profile, unmanned and manned flight options) from prototype to production. Between the second stage engines from the su-57 and state trials which can last for years, the timeframe given isn't unreasonable and shows just how far Russia's come since the Soviet Union's collapse in the 90's.

    You make a valid point on the engine and I apologize as I forgot that part. The engine in question is stage 1 so the second stage engine should change perameters quite a bit but you are correct, will require time to test thoroughly.
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    Post  dino00 Tue Jul 20, 2021 8:39 pm

    Compared to its counterparts, Checkmate has higher performance. "If we compare with the American F-35 fighter, its closest analogue, this is a different aircraft. More speed, more range, greater payload. New qualities. Much better stealth is implemented here. I would not say that it is a correct comparison with any aircraft." It has a unique aerodynamic design, "Bulatov said.

    The head of the UAC expressed the hope that the new light fighter and its unmanned version will be of interest to the Russian Aerospace Forces. He stressed that the aircraft is an initiative development, and negotiations are currently underway with the military department as a potential customer.

    https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/11947075

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