New combat aircraft will be presented at MAKS-2021

Gomig-21 wrote:

kvs wrote:There is video of the engine firing already.   It was shown in the promo clip.   It was not an Su-57 or some other jet, it was the Su-75.

Where did Sukhoi or Rostec or UAC officially name this aircraft the designation Su-75?!?  I'm curious when and who gave it that designation when we all knew it to be The Checkmate?  anyone know?

Where is all this pedantic reaction coming from. Who gives a fcuk what it's called. I'll call it by its official name when Sukhoi gives it one.
Checkmate is a marketing slogan. Also, 57 and 75 are permutations of each other, which is rather fitting for this jet.

kvs wrote:

Gomig-21 wrote:

kvs wrote:There is video of the engine firing already.   It was shown in the promo clip.   It was not an Su-57 or some other jet, it was the Su-75.

Where did Sukhoi or Rostec or UAC officially name this aircraft the designation Su-75?!?  I'm curious when and who gave it that designation when we all knew it to be The Checkmate?  anyone know?

Where is all this pedantic reaction coming from.   Who gives a fcuk what it's called.   I'll call it by its official name when Sukhoi gives it one.
Checkmate is a marketing slogan.   Also, 57 and 75 are permutations of each other, which is rather fitting for this jet.

I see where gomig21 is coming from. It is good to be exact and also there is an importance in a name.

AirCombatSim wrote:Is it me or are many of the planes all starting to look like each other to an extent?

Its the laws of physics. But when you get up close they are all very different. It's always been this way though. Look at the WW2 planes. And the Sabre vs the Mig.

Search engines will be confusing the 57 with the 75 forever. Su 61 or something would be better. But it's fine. Edit: I just checked. As far as a pic search goes , they don't get confused. So that's good

Japanese creativity about Checkmate and Su-57.

The Checkmate fighter jet will be assembled at an aircraft factory in Komsomolsk-on-Amur. 

The new single-engine fifth-generation fighter Checkmate will be assembled at the Komsomolsk-on-Amur Gagarin Aircraft Factory (KnAAZ), which is a branch of PJSC "Sukhoi Company", said the General Director of the United Aircraft Corporation Yuri Slyusar.

"Checkmate will be assembled here" – Slyusar confirmed.

On July 28, Russian Prime Minister Mikhail Mishustin visited KnAAZ. Mishustin visited the assembly and assembly shops for the production of these military aircraft, went up to the fighter cabins, and talked with test pilots. In the final assembly shop, the head of government was met by interns-students of the Moscow Aviation Institute, from whom Mishustin asked if they liked working at KnAAZ and introduced them to the acting Governor of the Khabarovsk Territory Mikhail Degtyarev, telling them about his first technical education. Degtyarev confirmed that his first specialization, which he received at the Samara University, is "engines of power plants". The Prime Minister also asked the students if they would like to come and continue working in the Far East, and the guys confirmed this desire.

Komsomolsk-on-Amur Aviation Plant named after Yuri Alekseyevich Gagarin is a branch of PJSC "Sukhoi Company", part of the United Aircraft Corporation. It was founded in 1934, and the first reconnaissance aircraft was launched here in 1936. Since then, the company has produced more than 12 thousand military and civilian aircraft. The main activity of the company is the construction of Su-57 fifth-generation fighters and multi-role Su-35S fighters of the 4++ generation.

KnAAZ takes part in the development of the Checkmate light tactical aircraft developed by the Sukhoi Design Bureau. In 2021, the plant assembled a full-size technology demonstrator aircraft of this promising single-engine fighter. They are working on creating the first sample for static testing.

Over the past five years, KnAAZ has carried out a large-scale program of modernization and technical re-equipment of production, including for the development of mass production of new types of aircraft. The introduction of modern technologies and the installation of new equipment ensured a complete renewal of the production base of a number of workshops. In particular, a new robotic electroplating shop with special cameras for applying radio-absorbing coatings for the Su-57 program was put into operation. A number of other facilities are being reconstructed and constructed. New Su-35S and Su-57 assembly lines were put into operation based on the in-line principle of production organization, which allows for high serial production.

Source: 

Also, does running cooler fuel into the engine have any effect on performance?

As I understand: To maximise efficiency you want to maximise the temperature difference between intake & exhaust temperature (or is it combustion? I think theoretically you want to expand exhaust down to the same temp as intake, practically you can't get close though) .
So cooler air & cooler fuel should both be an advantage if you can manage it.

Russian_Patriot_ wrote:
In particular, a new robotic electroplating shop with special cameras for applying radio-absorbing coatings for the Su-57 program was put into operation.

Is this news?

Why paint when you can electroplate.

Su-57 for the poor puts the aviation industry in a risky position

The irony is that the Su-75 being the Su-57 for the poor could in fact be affordable by most of Russias traditional customers because of its low operational costs, and purchases of these aircraft in significant numbers would actually put western imperial forces bent on regime change in a seriously difficult position, because these aircraft could be used against a western coalition in a variety of ways and assuming its use of long range AAMs including the new object 815 and an ability to fly high and relatively fast meaning it is able to achieve long range and of course any AESA radar worth is salt being able to detect the emissions of JSTARS and AWACS aircraft at enormous distances would mean any western invasion would very quickly lose its quarterback and central players in any attempt to invade and destroy a country...

Which makes 300 a serious under estimate... these are going to be cheap to buy and cheap to operate... I rather suspect if India buys these they will likely want to buy more than 600 as excellent gap fillers all over the place that are affordable to keep flying and the commonality with the Su-57, along with the recent announcement that a two seater Su-57 is going to be developed suggests a further purchase of Su-57s would be a natural next step.

The defeatist choir and their endless bleating are at it again...

Change poor to affordable to those that desperately need it... I honestly think if they can meet their goals this is going to be better than the MiG-21 was... for the same reasons... good performance in specific areas and affordable to actually use.

It is a shit article. Let everyone thank Kiko for posting such hot garbage.

I agree with most of it... what in particular did you not like?

I am expecting the condescending Su-57 for the poor shit... but only in the west can something be affordable and also desirable and effective.

The cheaper it is the more Russian customers there will be and by definition those customers will not be allowed to buy US equipment so in effect it will be forcing them to choose, and financially the choices are pretty stark... lets see what sort of plane they can deliver but I strongly suspect it will be a working aircraft with no obvious faults or problems and even in 10 years time I know I cannot be certain that I could say the same about the F-35 if it still exists then.

Let the writer be reminded that the F-16 is sold in such abundance while being a poor man's F-15 or Such.

The F-16 wasn't that cheap and not just anyone could buy it either... lots of strings attached.

But whatever, Russias media is ran by fucking retards whom are all liberal faggots (those who should actually be hung for their abysmal writing) and those who parrot it.

Dude... this article essentially says this new plane is pretty damn good and affordable... two things the current US alternative is not... and was supposed to be...

Yeah. I am just wondering if they found a way to do a similar take off with the delta type wing plus the thrust vectoring. Maybe with an adjustable front strut + vectoring. Point it up like a Concorde then use the TVC.

The thing is that with the front cover open like that the lift fan is clearly in operation so it can take off like that because it is VSTOL... in fact if it wasn't using its lift fan it would take off rather better with the lift fan intake closed because open like that it seems to be acting as a massive air brake... undoing a lot of forward thrust from the main engine.

The lift fan would dramatically reduce its takeoff speed so it could rotate much earlier with a cushion of air under the body, but I rather suspect TVC engine nozzle would also enable it to do something like that as well using main wing lift and pure engine power to leap from the ground.

They must have something up their sleeve if they are claiming it has shorter take offs than the average for a plane this size

Well not really... the number I read was 400m which is quite a bit more than a lightly loaded MiG-29... the MiG-35 can operate from 300m strips with a normal air to air load AFAIK.

But that is no big deal... short takeoff runs are less important for Russian aircraft because Russian air field defences are much better and should prevent cratering munitions reducing lengths available. Also Russian airstrips tend to be quite wide so even some damage can be operated around...

Just imagine that Lockheed took one engine , the wings , cockpit , gear and tail section from the F-22 and made the F-35 out of it. That's probably what they should have done.

It might be something they are doing right now... just to test numbers...

Probably with no payload and low gas.

It is no big deal... look at the dust around the wheels... this is a VSTOL fighter taking off using a rolling takeoff method using its lift fans and probably its main engine at a 45 degree downwards angle for forward and upward thrust. The Harrier and even Yak-38 did this all the time.

The guy from Sukhoi was explaining it at the video what is already known, the TVC allows the plane to pitch the nose sooner and faster, that increases lift and that takes the plane off the ground in less space.

The dust around all the wheels suggests the lift fan is in operation so this is a rolling takeoff of a VSTOL fighter. The F-35A and F-35C can't do this.

Is it me or are many of the planes all starting to look like each other to an extent?

I feel the same about cars...

So it's more accurate to name it the Checkmate than it is the Su-75. its doesn't seem that any source has given it a designation yet by any official sources.

Design bureaus can name them anything they please, the proper name is given by the Russian military when they enter service, so the old MiG-29M and the naval MiG-33 and the Su-27M for the first Su-35 no longer exist, but there is a new MiG-35, and the MiG-29K are new too... no MiG-29M because it has not been adopted.

If it were to me i'd name it Su-58.

Even numbers are strike aircraft, not fighters.

I see where gomig21 is coming from. It is good to be exact and also there is an importance in a name.

Don't call the Su-57 felon then because that name was created by an enemy.

PapaDragon wrote:It's can't be Su-58 because even numbers are reserved for bombers

To be exact, even numbers are for twin seaters

Russian_Patriot_ wrote:Degtyarev confirmed that his first specialization, which he received at the Samara University, is "engines of power plants".

Little wonder that Russian leadership runs circles around American one...

hoom wrote:As I understand: To maximise efficiency you want to maximise the temperature difference between intake & exhaust temperature (or is it combustion? I think theoretically you want to expand exhaust down to the same temp as intake, practically you can't get close though) .
So cooler air & cooler fuel should both be an advantage if you can manage it.

You want cold air and hot fuel, which is easier to ignite

GarryB wrote:Change poor to affordable to those that desperately need it... I honestly think if they can meet their goals this is going to be better than the MiG-21 was... for the same reasons... good performance in specific areas and affordable to actually use.

People are focusing on performance of the plane, but the real breakthrough is the work they have done to cut costs down. It is quite impressive and IMHO unprecedented. Of course the figures given look optimistic but Russian military is already getting twin engine heavy fighters for that amount, so if there are savings with the lighter, simpler single engine and margins are not exaggerated, it may be doable. We will hopefully know not so far from now if they succeed or not.

The dust around all the wheels suggests the lift fan is in operation so this is a rolling takeoff of a VSTOL fighter. The F-35A and F-35C can't do this.

I am talking about the LTS. Of course that in the video is a rolling takeoff of the F-35B

LMFS wrote:

Russian_Patriot_ wrote:Degtyarev confirmed that his first specialization, which he received at the Samara University, is "engines of power plants".

Little wonder that Russian leadership runs circles around American one...

What?

Russian_Patriot_ wrote:What?

Russian leadership has a proper education in technical fields (Mishustin too, if I am not wrong) while in US they are rather centered about obscure political BS.

kvs wrote:Where is all this pedantic reaction coming from.   Who gives a fcuk what it's called.   I'll call it by its official name when Sukhoi gives it one.
Checkmate is a marketing slogan.   Also, 57 and 75 are permutations of each other, which is rather fitting for this jet.

kvs, calm down, my friend. No need to get all bent out of shape over it. I was just asking so I can call it by the right name, that's all. I see more people calling it Checkmate even the building it was displayed in said "The Checkmate" and I see others calling it the Su-75 most likely because of the number 75 on the spine, but the only official name given to it so far was actually Checkmate in all the promos and videos and journalists talking about it.

So my question was if the Su-75 designation was official and if that is what we're supposed to call it now or not. That's it.

A small offtop, but it can be compared with a Checkmate. 

Source: MiG begins development of a fifth-generation carrier-based fighter. 

The Russian Aircraft Corporation (RAC) MiG has started developing a fifth-generation carrier-based fighter, which will be made using stealth technology, and plans to create a prototype of the aircraft in the next few years, a source in the military-industrial complex told RIA Novosti.

He added that "the project also considers the possibility of creating a version of the fighter with vertical take-off and landing." It is expected that the aircraft will be made in the MiG-35 dimension.

The machine, the source said, will be created within the framework of the complex-a deck-based aircraft plus an unmanned aerial vehicle weighing more than ten tons, which will be made according to the "flying wing" aerodynamic scheme.

"The aircraft should be used in conjunction with the fighter within the framework of the "faithful wingman"concept. Its functions are either refueling or joint strikes" – the source added. The source clarified that the device will also use developments on the Skat drone.

At the MAKS-2021 air show, MiG presented a promising multifunctional complex of deck-based aviation in the form of large-scale models. In particular, a scale model of a fifth-generation carrier-based fighter was shown. According to the layout, the aircraft will be twin-engine with reduced radar visibility. The machine will be made according to the "duck" aerodynamic scheme, that is, with a front horizontal tail: at the rear of the aircraft there are two keels without a tail horizontal tail. A mock-up of a UAV from the complex was also shown. A characteristic feature of the future device is the tail unit in the form of an inverted "V".

Source: 


The news is interesting, but there are a couple of questions:

1) It is not a fact that this is true and that the terms are truthful. This is not an official news from MiG, it's just a drain from a source inside the company. 

2) The Checkmate project, from the Sukhoi Design Bureau, benefits from the MiG Design Bureau project in some ways: work on the Checkmate at a later stage, as well as unification with the Su-57, which speeds up development and reduces the cost of production. As far as I remember, the possibility of creating a deck version of the Checkmate was voiced. 

As sad as it may sound, the MiG gave way to Sukhoi in its main niche of light fighters, they still hope for the PAK DP

PapaDragon wrote:

Russian_Patriot_ wrote:...As sad as it may sound, the MiG gave way to Sukhoi in its main niche of light fighters, they still hope for the PAK DP

Why would it be sad?

Sukhoi is succeeding, this is good news and all that matters

MiG is failing as it deserved to, laziness and failure should not be rewarded

If Mig falls away Sukhoi might just become complacent - competition keeps you on your toes - just ask Mig!
I think The Checkmate was a bit of a wake up call for them - I hope.

Russian_Patriot_ wrote:

He added that "the project also considers the possibility of creating a version of the fighter with vertical take-off and landing." It is expected that the aircraft will be made in the MiG-35 dimension.

Well if this rumour is true then I am glad to see that they will considers the possibility of creating a VTOL version of the fighter - meaning the original concept won't be VTOL - if my interpretation is correct.

PapaDragon wrote:

Russian_Patriot_ wrote:...As sad as it may sound, the MiG gave way to Sukhoi in its main niche of light fighters, they still hope for the PAK DP

Why would it be sad?

Sukhoi is succeeding, this is good news and all that matters

MiG is failing as it deserved to, laziness and failure should not be rewarded

As much as I'd like to see MiG succeed, it's hard to see any future in this carrier-based stealth fighter program. Firstly, Russia has only one aircraft carrier, they won't be building another until the Lider-Class destroyers are serially produced which hasn't gotten past the conceptual stage yet, that means the Russian Navy won't even buy them anytime soon. So who will? India?

The Su-75 Checkmate will [most likely] be serially produced by 2026 and the UAC has already said they'll offer export clients a carrier-based version if they so choose. Even if Russia doesn't choose the Su-75 as their light/medium naval fighter, the Indians sure as hell would, especially a 5th generation jet for $30 Million or even $50 Million a piece (the price of the MiG-29K now).

How long do you think Russia would take to build its first post-soviet era aircraft carrier? 2035 is a conservative estimate at best. Is MiG willing to wait that long? Would they even have a choice?

How many countries in the world have aircraft carriers? How many of those countries are US/NATO Vassals and couldn't buy russian fighters even if they wanted to?

Would anyone like to hazard a guess as to what the proportions of VVS and Russian export planes will be in say... 2029 and 2035.

I must admit I'm a bit puzzled.
RuAF has had resistance to single engine planes. The Su57 seems to be terrific but not cheap, altho excellent value for money.

The single jet Checkmate seems to be a miracle on price but the VVS hasn't signed up yet.

Then there are the Mig35 and Su35 latest variants of the repsective design bureaus families at 4/4.5 G
Furthremore Mig is promising a modernised Mig 1.45 or whatever twin engine 5G plane.

My guess is that the VVS will eventually want about 120 Su57s in service at a time, maybe more. Eventually exports with maybe 500 produced over the product lifetime and perhaps 320 produced for the VVS. Eventually it will turn into some sort of near 6G plane. With some numbers of strike variants produced ontop. Probbably tech transfer to the Mig 43, give that both bureaus are in practice under UAC now.

I think Su35 and Mig35 will be continued atleast until 5G alts are in serial production and cheap enough for export etc. Perhaps airframe viability on upgrades will be a factor too.

I'm not sure what will happen with the twin jet Mig 5G. And indeed the single jet Su75.
The Russian list of offerings seems very broad right now.

My suspicion is that people are forgetting Su75 as an unmanned plane for the VVS. Surely it looks like an interesting option for Russia. With lots of export orders for the manned version and smallish manned numbers for Russia.

Assuming Mig produces a good 5G twinengine, I'm puzzled as to where this will fit in with the VVS.
Perhaps it will be in the price range midway between both 5G Sukhoi offerings? With around 300 or 400 units for theVVS at peak? I would imagine a lot of 4G Mig and Sukhoi airframes will be reaching expiry in the next 20 years, and producing more Mig29 family etc would make no sense.

What do people reckon might be the domestic and export buying patterns?

Mir wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:

Russian_Patriot_ wrote:...As sad as it may sound, the MiG gave way to Sukhoi in its main niche of light fighters, they still hope for the PAK DP

Why would it be sad?

Sukhoi is succeeding, this is good news and all that matters

MiG is failing as it deserved to, laziness and failure should not be rewarded

If Mig falls away Sukhoi might just become complacent - competition keeps you on your toes - just ask Mig!
I think The Checkmate was a bit of a wake up call for them - I hope.  

This is less about Migs failure than it is being made out to be. The whole economics behind the su-75 is that it uses everything from the su 57. Wings , cockpit, landing gear , verticals ect. So it was always going to be a Sukhoi.

They are all one company now. Considering its a one engine fighter, the Mig legacy would have been a good brand to give it. Call it a Mig 41 or something. But it couldn't be that way because it's a Sukhoi.

A VTOL fighter should be a Yakovlev but im not sure if they are still doing military. The MC-21 is a Yak.

1) To me its not really surprise that VTOL fighter is being co0nsidered. (Hello GarryB    ) but that MiG is working on that. Unless this is the same virtual team (Sukhoi and MiG is one now) and components will be reused to some degrees from Su-75?


The funny thing is that size of LHDs was increased from Mistrals 18kTons to 40k Tons... now VSTOL fighter. This gets interesting  isn't it?




2) As for the news, do you remember air&cosmos form 2017?

Air et Cosmos 2017





MiG stand on MAKS 21


here you can enjoy more pics and description

https://bmpd.livejournal.com/

PapaDragon wrote:

Why would it be sad?

Sukhoi is succeeding, this is good news and all that matters

MiG is failing as it deserved to, laziness and failure should not be rewarded

unlikely , since MiGs CEO is the same as Sukhois one - Ilya Tarasenko

https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A2%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%81%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%BA%D0%BE,_%D0%98%D0%BB%D1%8C%D1%8F_%D0%A1%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B3%D0%B5%D0%B5%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%87

Backman wrote:

They are all one company now. Considering its a one engine fighter, the Mig legacy would have been a good brand to give it. Call it a Mig 41 or something. But it couldn't be that way because it's a Sukhoi.

A VTOL fighter should be a Yakovlev but im not sure if they are still doing military. The MC-21 is a Yak.

I think all aircraft design bureaus grouped together under UAC but I would think they are all still individual design bureaus. In other words they can compete against each other or supplement each other? I guess it would also be possible to work on the same design as well?

Broski wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:

Russian_Patriot_ wrote:...As sad as it may sound, the MiG gave way to Sukhoi in its main niche of light fighters, they still hope for the PAK DP

Why would it be sad?

Sukhoi is succeeding, this is good news and all that matters

MiG is failing as it deserved to, laziness and failure should not be rewarded

As much as I'd like to see MiG succeed, it's hard to see any future in this carrier-based stealth fighter program. Firstly, Russia has only one aircraft carrier, they won't be building another until the Lider-Class destroyers are serially produced which hasn't gotten past the conceptual stage yet, that means the Russian Navy won't even buy them anytime soon. So who will? India?

The Su-75 Checkmate will [most likely] be serially produced by 2026 and the UAC has already said they'll offer export clients a carrier-based version if they so choose. Even if Russia doesn't choose the Su-75 as their light/medium naval fighter, the Indians sure as hell would, especially a 5th generation jet for $30 Million or even $50 Million a piece (the price of the MiG-29K now).

How long do you think Russia would take to build its first post-soviet era aircraft carrier? 2035 is a conservative estimate at best. Is MiG willing to wait that long? Would they even have a choice?

How many countries in the world have aircraft carriers? How many of those countries are US/NATO Vassals and couldn't buy russian fighters even if they wanted to?

Well if they start working on a prototype right now it will take another 10 years or so before it's ready for production. By that time Russia would likely have at least one aircraft carrier nearing completion and Kuznetsov would need a couple of new planes.

Firebird wrote:Assuming Mig produces a good 5G twinengine, I'm puzzled as to where this will fit in with the VVS.

The new Mig is to be for navy...that's why VSTOL is considered.

Mir wrote:

Well if they start working on a prototype right now it will take another 10 years or so  before it's ready for production. By that time Russia would likely have at least one aircraft carrier nearing completion and Kuznetsov would need a couple of new planes.

since 4 years ago Air&Cosmos publishes info about the new MiG they have been working 5-6 years already

GunshipDemocracy wrote:
since 4 years ago Air&Cosmos publishes info about the new MiG they have been working 5-6 years already

They should have had a prototype ready by now and not just these plastic models don't you think? Mig's priority is likely to be the replacement for the Mig-31.