VVS Russian Airforce Force: News #2

Isos wrote:Already said basing planes west of the Urals is dumb. They can be reached by drones like yesterday.

Transport planes and bombers have enough range to be used from Siberia, just fucking use the strategical deapth of your country.

Those dumb generals keep their bombers close to ukraine to launch very long range missiles always from the caspian sea at target that can be atta k with cheaper stuff... I mean are they aware they need to change tactics and mke a better use of their hardware.

Maybe that's what NATO is angling for. To force Russia to rebase it's planes east of the Urals.

Would fit in with their whole strategy. How they got Russia to withdraw from Snake island and the vicinity of Odessa, then from Kherson by damaging the dam, and so on

But the buck ends when it comes to established Russian territory, such as the Crimea, or the same Pskov. The aircraft are there for a reason, and if NATO means to force their withdrawal, then that's exactly what Russia should NOT do.

Why cant the russian air force prevent small quadcopter drones destroying aircraft in pskov?

No air force on the planet could stop a drone attack like this one.

Why is it allowing drgs to operate freely 500km from the ukraine border?

How does the US allow trillions of dollars in legal and illegal drugs get in to the US?

Why cant there be forbidden areas with infantry patrols and electric fences in a 4 km radius from the airports.

Because there are thousands of air ports in Russia and if you defend air ports they will just attack something else.

0 russian aircraft were destroyed in hmeimim. Meanwhile on russian soil, strategic aviation assets are being destroyed with impunity.

Not impunity... Russia will respond.

Why cant there be russian DRGs destroying ukrainian aircraft in zhitomir or Lvov, if the ukrainians can send their people deep into russian territory?

The Russians are destroying aircraft in the Ukraine all the time... in the air and on the ground...

4% of the flyable Il-76 was destroyed. Show me an example of ukrainian aircraft being destroyed in zhitomir and Lvov by drgs. Show me an example of C-17s and AC-130s destroyed by taliban in kabul

Destroyed on the ground... they are just planes.

You dont destroy the drone, you destroy the launcher. The fact that the SBU operates drgs with impunity in pskov is pathetic. Meanwhile there are 0 antiukrainian fighters and russian drgs in Lvov Zhitomir, etc

Don't be so childish... you invent a time machine and you murder their parents so they can never be born obviously...

They were repeated. First destroyed Ka-52 by drg. Then destroyed Tu-22m by drg. Now destroyed Il-76s. This lends credence to drgs destroying russian aircraft in saki. As I said, its pathetic that ukrainian drgs or self hating russians can operate freely deep inside russia, while russia cant send drgs to blow up not only aircraft, but MLRS, artillery, ukrainian generals, SBU officers in the ukraine up to zakapartia..

Your calls for Putin to be replaced and why is the Russian military so incompetent... obviously drones are the easiest things in the world to deal with... not a single Ukrainian soldier has been killed by a drone this whole war because of western superior armour and western electronics that render them useless...

Already said basing planes west of the Urals is dumb. They can be reached by drones like yesterday.

Without knowing where the drones were launched from it would be rather hard to define where would be safe, but they have hit a theatre bomber and a couple of transport planes... if they get strategic nuclear aircraft then Russia can escalate the way some members here are demanding...

Well first of all cut off all energy supplies to the west including Uranium and start destroying civilian infrastructure in Ukraine including destroying transport trains and trucks and shipping and buses of all types heading in either direction...

Those dumb generals keep their bombers close to ukraine to launch very long range missiles always from the caspian sea at target that can be atta k with cheaper stuff... I mean are they aware they need to change tactics and mke a better use of their hardware.

One successful attack and you piss your pants, those bombers were there to bomb the Ukraine... the closer they are the more bombs they carry and the less warning the Orcs get via HATO... maybe what they really need to do is destroy the US embassy in Kiev and start targeting HATO systems and equipment in the Ukraine... and of course the property and assets of the richest Ukrainians that support the west of course... and destroy those farms and their grain stores which by now are likely filled with ammo and fuel and weapons and armour and aircraft...

From Kim´s trip to Vladivostok: either slightly modified Kh-101 (experts claim to see some minor changes) or the new Kh-BD.

Russian military pilots were armed with a submachine gun for the first time, by Valentina Grigorenko for VZGLYAD 09.29.2023.

The PP-2000 submachine gun was included in the emergency reserve of Russian military pilots.

For the first time, Russian military pilots began to put a PP-2000 submachine gun in their portable emergency reserve (NAS), which is located in the ejection seat, said Deputy Commander-in-Chief of the Russian Aerospace Forces Yuri Grekhov during a visit by the CIS defense ministers to the Tula Design Bureau named after Shipunov.

As Grekhov pointed out, “we put the machine gun in the NAZ under the pilot’s seat,” reportsRIA Novosti .

Previously, Russian combat aviation pilots could only take pistols and grenades with them on the plane; machine guns were not included in the equipment - there was no room for them either in the cockpit or in the NAZ. In this case, the pilot usually kept the pistol simply in his pocket. It was the same in Soviet times.

In 2021, it was reported that for the first time they plan to include small arms in the portable emergency stock – the PPK-20 submachine gun and the Lebedev compact pistol.

Currently, the NAZ of combat aviation pilots includes a first aid kit, food, a knife, portable radio communications equipment and other essential items. The NAZ stowage is located in the ejection seat and is attached to the pilot’s harness.

https://vz.ru/news/2023/9/29/1232694.html

For the first time, the PP-2000 submachine gun began to be placed in the military survival kit of VKS pilots

https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/18877333

TULA, September 29. /TASS/. For the first time, the PP-2000 submachine gun began to be placed in the emergency reserve of pilots of the Aerospace Forces (VKS) of the Russian Federation. This was announced by Deputy Commander-in-Chief of the Aerospace Forces Yuri Grekhov during an inspection of the Instrument Engineering Design Bureau named after Academician A.G. Shipunov.

“In the NAZ (portable emergency reserve - TASS note) it is placed under the pilot’s seat,” he said in response to a comment from Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu, who pointed out the need for the PP-2000 in the NAZ for pilots and held this weapon in his hands.

Earlier, TASS reported that the Russian Ministry of Defense is considering the possibility of including military pilots in the NAZ instead of the AKS-74U assault rifle with a more compact PP-2000 submachine gun. In May, the Tula Instrument Design Bureau (part of the "High-Precision Complexes" of the Rostec state corporation), which developed the weapon, reported positive test results on the convenience of placing weapons in the NAZ and that a batch of PP-2000 was undergoing trial operation in the Aerospace Forces.

The PP-2000 is chambered for the 9x19 Parabellum cartridge. The weapon is one of the lightest in the world - 1.4 kg without magazine and stock. A special feature of the PP-2000 is the ability to use a spare magazine as a shoulder rest. The bolt handle and magazine release button can be reinstalled on either side, allowing the weapon to be used comfortably by both right-handed and left-handed people.

so no AK based PM but PP-2000...

The PP-2000 really does look awkward and ungainly, but it seems to actually be a rather good weapon.

With the PP-2000 you can fit a magazine into the stock well so instead of a folding stock you can have a fixed stock but the standard stocks are a bit short.

There is a 44 round box magazine designed to be the right length to use as a fixed stock, though you can remove it too obviously, but it does not fold so you can't fold and unfold it quickly, it would be have it fitted and remove it as options. In an emergency you can remove it and use it as a magazine.

(the 44 round mag is the same length as the folding stock when extended.)

for western customers there is version "pride"







I just wonder why suddenly PP-2000? it looks cool? it was to be AK based PPM-20 with longer barrel same ammo. The only real difference is size. Folded
pp-2000 -350 mm
ppm-20 - 630


I guess this is why...looks like Russian pilots have smaller sized packs then US ones with M-4 derivative

This video sort of explains it.

It shows video from the Ka-52 crew who had to land and be rescued and they seem to have AKs so they were OK but some aircrew don't have space for a full sized rifle and ammo... whether it folds or not... and so smaller is better.

The PP-2000 seems go be gaining popularity despite looking funny. Watch the video above and see how easy it is to strip and handle.

for western customers there is version "pride"

Technically that might be just to appeal to women. To be a proper pride alphabet weapon it would need all the colours of the rainbow...

GarryB wrote:This video sort of explains it.

It shows video from the Ka-52 crew who had to land and be rescued and they seem to have AKs so they were OK but some aircrew don't have space for a full sized rifle and ammo... whether it folds or not... and so smaller is better.

The PP-2000 seems go be gaining popularity despite looking funny. Watch the video above and see how easy it is to strip and handle.

hmm previously Kalashnikov based PPK-20 was to beadded. I dont really understand fixation regarding 9mm rounds ?



So


AM-17 5,45x39mm
Mass 2.5 kg (5.51 lb)
Length 740 mm (29 in)(stock extended)
490 mm (19.3 in) (stock folded)
Barrel length 230 mm (9.1 in)
muzzle velocity = 750m/s


PPK-20 9x19mm
Weight (with empty magazine), kg
2.7
length (stock extended) 700 mm
Length (stock folded) 475 mm
Barrel length 233 mm
Muzzle velocity 380 m/s



AM17 folded is actually 25mm longer then PPK-20 considered earlier and lighter so why not AM-17? easier aiming due to higher round velocity. less weight?

Traditionally for escape and evasion the weapon used was a pistol, so a SMG and a light assault rifle is always going to be a step up.

A way to create a more compact weapon is to use a projectile that does not rely on high velocity for effect, a popular option is 9mm pistol ammo, but the Russians also have 9x39mm ammo as well.

The AMB-17 is suppressed and compact and quiet... but then the 9a-91 is designed to be a compact assault rifle and at 2.1kgs with a length of 383mm with the stock folded it is a very compact weapon in 9 x 39mm ammo.

But talking about compact then the Kashtan 9x19mm SMG is 325mm long and 1.65kg with an empty 20 round mag, while the PP2000 is 340mm long with the stock closed and 1,4kg in weight, while Kedr is 305mm long and 1.55kg in weight, while the SR-2 uses 9x21mm Russian ammo and is 367mm long with the stock folded and 1.65kg empty.

They had very limited options during the cold war but in the 1990s large numbers of interesting options became available and they still have a variety of choices available to them, each with advantages and disadvantages.

GarryB wrote:Traditionally for escape and evasion the weapon used was a pistol, so a SMG and a light assault rifle is always going to be a step up.

A way to create a more compact weapon is to use a projectile that does not rely on high velocity for effect, a popular option is 9mm pistol ammo, but the Russians also have 9x39mm ammo as well.

The AMB-17 is suppressed and compact and quiet... but then the 9a-91 is designed to be a compact assault rifle and at 2.1kgs with a length of 383mm with the stock folded it is a very compact weapon in 9 x 39mm ammo.
[]

They had very limited options during the cold war but in the 1990s large numbers of interesting options became available and they still have a variety of choices available to them, each with advantages and disadvantages.

All is true but my reasoning is if 5.45mm wouldn't have stopping power no-one would use it, besides higher muzzle velocity the flatter trajectory what when target is moving and shooter is not shooting daily makes huge difference. Not to mention personal armor.
With 5,45x39mm no need for exotic ammo like 9x21mm or 9x39mm. Regular army ammo is just fine. one bullet doesn't kill what about 2-3 rounds shots? it is just easier to handle and what I've read in Russian forums PP-2000 has problems with reliability ...unlike AK-74m or Degtariev assault rifles.

I think you are ignoring the fact that when fired through a much shorter barrel the 5.45mm is not the same round going through a rifle or LMG barrel... the muzzle blast is much bigger, even with a decent flash hider attachment, and the shorter barrel reduces velocity and accuracy to the point where you are dealing with heavier recoil and muzzle activity for no great advantage in performance.

Body armour that stops the special 9mm Russian armour piercing rounds will probably also stop 5.45mm AP rounds from a short barrel too... in fact your best performing round is probably the 9x39mm in the AP model... low velocity but very heavy projectile.

The 9x19mm is a western round widely adopted in Russia by police and paramilitary and also by the Russian military, but I do hope they eventually shift to 9x21mm for their pistol and SMG round. The 9x39mm has been widely used by recon and special forces since the 1980s when everyone else shifted to 5.45mm... which is a very good round BTW, but when working at night with a suppressor it isn't very quiet, they used the AKs in 7.62x39mm, but eventually got the 9x39mm round instead with a much better projectile.   (when working with suppressed weapons the projectile has to be subsonic or it makes a supersonic crack as it passes through the air... this means you can't make the round faster... you can only make it heavier. The subsonic 5.45mm round is about 80 grain, the 7.62x39mm subsonic round is about a 193 grain bullet, while the 9x39mms subsonic round is about 265 grain.... they all travel at the same speed.)

The point is that you have to forget about computer games and war movies... the firearm the pilots and crew carry is something you carry for 99% of your career and never use.... during war time your chance of using it is higher but it is still your job to do other things and not use your weapon... the weapon is a self defence thing while you wait for help to arrive. Traditionally it was a pistol but a pistol is actually rather hard to use effectively and has very very limited range. A submachinegun is slightly bigger and rather more accurate and effective and has a reasonable range, and is much easier to learn to use effectively and accurately than a pistol while not being as big and heavy as a rifle.

Each of the weapons available has their pros and cons... it is a bit like picking a computer for a novice who really doesn't care about computer games... they just want email and to look at web pages. Most of the time all they really need is a tablet or just a phone... they don't need a desktop computer.

Note, in terms of stopping power the 9x39mm does not require long barrel length for effect... it relies on bullet weight for effect so even a small compact weapon is effective. In comparison the 5.45mm relies on velocity for effect so the longer the barrel the better.

The ADS bullpup is a compact weapon with a full length barrel that could be adapted for air crew use that could be interesting of course... but then a shorter barrel carbine version in 9x39mm would be interesting too...

GunshipDemocracy wrote:for western customers there is version "pride"

You forgot to include the most popular accessories...  very useful for close combat in the trench or foxhole...  

No.

 So I can bash the nazis in Ukropistan but I can't lampoon the degenerate faggots in the West who are infecting the baseline morality and decency of our societies, and who are making MOCKERY of our armed forces???  bah...

Funny having to tell you... no sex please we are British... The bright pink guns actually have nothing to do with rainbow bullshit and are common in the US and are intended to appeal to women who might like a bright pink gun to go with a bright pink outfit and shoes. Nothing to do with rainbow people or gay sex in the trenches... do you see the direction this goes?

Don´t know where to put this, so it ends here.

M-55 with recon pod, propably for testing

Hole wrote:Don´t know where to put this, so it ends here.  

M-55 with recon pod, propably for testing

Isos is right - it was seen on a Su-34, but I can't believe he hasn't seen the M-55 before!

It may well be an ELINT pod but I'm also thinking ECM.

The M-55 was developed from the M-17 that was a spy balloon hunter back in Soviet days. The M-55 was supposed to be a high altitude recce plane like the U-2/TR-1.

Here is the pod on the Su-34.