The Situation in the Ukraine. #31

Krepost wrote:What is user SeigSoloyvov's Avatar?
It looks a bit like the Russian double headed eagle but it has Nazi style wings.
His user name is also Nazi sounding with a Russian twist at the end:
- Seig (like the Nazi Seig Heil slogan)
- SeigSoloyvov : like the Nazi SS

It's Warhammer 40k, amblem belongs to Imperium of Man (praise the God Emperor)

Cool stuff, you should check it out

All hail Blood Ravens

Also Leandros is a pussy stool pigeon and Angron is emo bitch

PapaDragon wrote:

Krepost wrote:What is user SeigSoloyvov's Avatar?
It looks a bit like the Russian double headed eagle but it has Nazi style wings.
His user name is also Nazi sounding with a Russian twist at the end:
- Seig (like the Nazi Seig Heil slogan)
- SeigSoloyvov : like the Nazi SS

It's Warhammer 40k, amblem belongs to Imperium of Man (praise the God Emperor)

Cool stuff, you should check it out

All hail Blood Ravens

Also Leandros is a pussy stool pigeon and Angron is emo bitch

Truth, Brother!

Krepost wrote:What is user SeigSoloyvov's Avatar?
It looks a bit like the Russian double headed eagle but it has Nazi style wings.
His user name is also Nazi sounding with a Russian twist at the end:
- Seig (like the Nazi Seig Heil slogan)
- SeigSoloyvov : like the Nazi SS

Dude ... That is low.

You call it Novorossiya, I call it Texas. Will Russia also make a cheesy movie with John Wayne singlehandedly beating the MexicanUkrainian Army (with his sidekick Tiny Tim) followed by some subliminal titles where it states it was actually the US CavalryRussian Armed Forces which kicked the MexicanUkrainian Army out? And that TexasNovorossiya remained independent forever more until it politely asked the USRussian government to please accept it into its fold?

The difference is that millions of Russians haven't moved into the region to farm the land displacing the Mexicans (Ukrainians). The Mexicans (Ukrainians) are still there and while they want help from Russia they don't want to become part of Russia either.

That is half of a story already.
While the other half is, that if you are to incorporate land claimed as your heritage, your obligations are to bring it up to the standard ASAP, or you will face the harsh consequences in a really short time.
Even a friendly population, would expect to live "like in Moscow", because ... hey, you are in charge now!
Not to mention hostile ones.

The Difference with South Ossetia is that there is a north Ossetia in Russia and the people in South Ossetia and Abkhazia don't seem to identify themselves as being Georgian.

These people in these Ukrainian regions consider themselves Ukrainian and are only getting Russian citizenship because they need help.

Russia isn't going to go in and take control and rule the place... they will likely push Kiev forces back and neutralise their ability to do damage to Russia or the new free areas using artillery or air force... and then they will likely hold a referendum that wont include joining the Russian federation... it will likely be independence...

They just want the freedom to speak Russian.

Ukraine is the poorest country in Europe already, passing by Moldova on it's way down the toilet.
There is a disaster in all spheres of infrastructure, bringing some parts of it to the edge of physical threat for a population.
To put it back on track, would require enormous assets applied, that Russia hardly can afford, and ... for what?!?

Totally agree, which is why Russia is not going to invade for fun or just because... they will only act if Kiev attacks, and their actions will focus on stopping the Kiev forces and pushing them back... a token peace keeping force will likely be sent to the region while the locals decide what they want to do... most likely it will end up with Russian troops there keeping the peace... and opening their borders to trade with Russia... which means they can work their way out of their current problems instead of asking or demanding handouts.

Russia is not going to pay to fix everything, but will assist them doing it for themselves.

People? Most of them who are worth bothering are already in Russia or EU. Why bother the remaining lazy nazis&stariks?

They are not, but equally they wont stand by while Kiev commits genocide on its own people... even if the EU and US are happy to.

Putin knows this full well and NATzO's dreams are not going to become reality.

Putin knows if Russia tries to take all of the Ukraine it suddenly becomes his problem, which is an enormous economic burden for any country... no wonder the US and EU are pretending everything is so wonderful there... nothing needing fixing there right?

Ryabkov, Putin, antonov, naryshkin, bortnikov, Lavrov, and everyone who matters has already made it clear, that this is a big problem that needs immediate resolution, or they will be resolved by military technical measures. Everything else is fluff.

Their objecting to it being there or happening is just something the west can laugh off, but I am sure they have in mind a lot of things they can do to really piss the US off that the US can really do nothing about either... sending lots of stuff across the Caspian Sea to Iran for instance and of course further assistance to China in areas China has gaps and weaknesses... Russia can help to make them stronger... send them the gas they were planning to send to the EU because the EU clearly does not want it...

Has that means full blown war, and Putin does not want war with the US and Europe,

The only way for Russia to keep NATO forces out would be to occupy it.

The conflict in Georgia in 2008... the US seemed to stop short of direct help for Georgian forces... US military forces seemed to take a step back and not really get fully involved... I would expect the same in the Ukraine if a shooting war started there with Kiev attacking rebels and Russia assisting them.

We are lucky that Putin seems to be the only rational leader in this game...

This is a lower-level request by Georgia which is now heavily influenced by Russia, and which Germany, for some reason, has now decided to honor," the General claims.

So Russia controls Georgia now? Really?

Sounds more like you are a bonafide war criminal and your past is coming back to haunt you because Georgia doesn't love Russia but wants criminals held to account for the crimes that led to them losing South Ossetia and Abkhazia.

Bombing Ukraine will only ensure one thing, NATO accepts Ukraine.

What difference would that even make... honestly?

Because now while it isn't part of HATO there can be no HATO forces based there.... it can get not support or training or weapons or equipment from HATO... really?

It is already defacto part of HATO already.... all the danger of being front line cannon fodder and economic distress at having to cut ties with its biggest customer and neighbour... but none of the security guarantees a HATO member would get.... yeah... they are fucking idiots.

What seems to fail in the minds of decision makers is that just as Cuba was vital to the US during the cold war and as such would go to war if the USSR didn't back down there, Ukraine is vital to Russia and Russia will go to war if necessary.

The military has no doubts about this, the politicians seem to live in an alternative world where they believe that because Putin doesn't want a war and avoids it as much as possible he simply won't do anything in a vital matter like this.

This type of attitude is not only a very dangerous miscalculation, it also hurts European interests and is pushing a Russia that wanted to be European towards a Chinese alliance that poses a major risk to our Greek-Roman civilization.

In my opinion there are 2 countries that can gain from this, the US and China. One because, in case of conflict, Europe will again be completely dependent on it, or the other because it will be an almost exclusive customer of Russian energy and resources.

Well knock me down with a feather.

It looks like the EU's favourite could be about to stuff them, in the best possible way, either in the wallet or by making the Russians cease gas shipments. Panic start of NS2 anyone?

All the bleating in the west about Russian gas blackmail never had a hint of a link with reality. Both of the previous gas
transit disruptions through Ukria were the clowns in Kiev closing off the taps. This was before the Maidan under Yuschenko
when the Gas Princess was still a big player. Ukria has been siphoning transit gas since the 1990s.

Now the retarded hate chickens are coming home to roost for the west. Reality cannot be projected.

Will likely rise the gas prices again. Good for Russia. Let the clown go ahead.

JohninMK wrote:Well knock me down with a feather.

It looks like the EU's favourite could be about to stuff them, in the best possible way, either in the wallet or by making the Russians cease gas shipments. Panic start of NS2 anyone?

Love the plan, I say they should go for it

So much BS in UK media, talking about invasion and capture of Kiev, even Russia invading from Belarus and through pripyat marches and Chernobyl forest, saying that it's very likely because troops have equipment to deal with radiation.

Russia will only send troops as a last resort and they won't take Kiev, and won't invade through Belarus as any troop movement through Belarus would be spotted by USA. And invading through marches and Chernobyl forest I highly doubt. I have been to Chernobyl three times, the forest is large and dense, not to mention there is a reason why it's called the red forest, nobody wants to slowly march through a radioactive forest unless it's Ur last option, it's also not great for troop morale. And having experience of doing exercises wearing full NBC equipment and clothing I can tell you it's horrible and severely impedes your fighting abilities, and an invading force wants to move quickly and not move slowly and have its fighting abilities hampered by such equipment.

I would suspect any invasion would stop at the Dnieper river. Russia would likely send troops to Dnipro, kharkiv cities this would cut off troops at Donbass front line, but at the same time send a force towards Kiev from the east there intention would not to take Kiev just to make it look like it was the intended target, this would in turn force Kiev to withdraw troops from Dnipro kharkiv cities to protect Kiev, this would then make those cities easy targets, once these cities are taken cutting off troops at Donbass front line, they would be surrounded and be forced to surrender giving Russia a good bargaining chip. While this is going on troops would move from Crimea and take the southern coastline, as well as an assault on Odessa, this would completely cut Ukraine off and make it landlocked. And link up pro Russian support in Transnistria and Gagauzia. This would in turn destroy Ukraines economy.

Russia would likely stop for talks and hand over prisoners of war for certain guarantees. And create a buffer zone at least between Russian borders and any potential NATO deployment in the western part of Ukraine. And even if they did Russia could still threaten force. And if Ukraine is to allow NATO deployment in the rest of Ukraine they would most likely want economic help as the country has lost majority of its economy and recovering from war. NATO would have to decide if it worth the investment into Ukraine just to piss off Russia, and still sites in western Ukraine would still be a target. And then there is nothing stopping Russia applying pressure and troop deployment into Transnistria and Gagauzia now it's land linked and threatening a Moldova invasion A nation which still has some russian support, a military force that would give up instantly rather than take on Russian forces, and capital being extremely close to Transnistria, if memory serves me right when I went there it was around an hour's drive 50-60km.

I think NATO and USA have finally realised that they are pushing the bear into a corner and that bear sees no other option but to attack if they don't back off. While Ukrainians are scared to admit that they fucked up back 2014, and still dream of a utopian EU (which doesn't exist) which they think means they get to keep all their current rights, culture and corruption but also get loads of investment and wages become like those of Germany and everyone lives in complete bliss. Their grass in greener mentality is nothing but wishful thinking and ignorance which it seems they are willing to die for. Oh how disappointed they are going to be. I suspect USA and NATO with back down and drop the hot potato Ukraine and leave it with it head in the clouds with their pipedream of EU utopia

What seems to fail in the minds of decision makers is that just as Cuba was vital to the US during the cold war and as such would go to war if the USSR didn't back down there, Ukraine is vital to Russia and Russia will go to war if necessary.

I appreciate the sentiment, but I think suggesting the Ukraine is vital to Russia in anyway is overstating the situation.

Russia doesn't have dreams of getting the old band back together again, and has no illusions about the Ukraine either.

Before the west started screwing around in Kiev Russia had accepted that the Crimea was the Ukraine and were not going to argue or fight over it.

Of course when the west screwed things over in Kiev and Crimea got a chance to jump ship and return home of course Russia took the chance to return what everyone really knows to be theirs... if you love it let it go... don't damage it by trying to cling on to it or you will lose it forever. They let it go and it asked to come back when it got the chance, so they know it loves them back. Not hollywood fairly land BS love... there will still be disagreements... but no divorces.

The thing is that Crimeans thought of themselves as Russian while all the people in the Ukraine think of themselves as Ukrainian.

There would be no conflict at all if Kiev wanted independence and free trade with everyone, but the dark lords don't share so Kiev had to decide EU or Russia and China.... as far as Russia and China were concerned they could have taken both, but the EU offer was either ours or theirs... they took Russias offer and then the west regime changed them... Russia lost Kiev but never really had them.... they gained the Crimea which is worth 1,000 Kievs.

The military has no doubts about this, the politicians seem to live in an alternative world where they believe that because Putin doesn't want a war and avoids it as much as possible he simply won't do anything in a vital matter like this.

In the west war is a game that gets you prizes. Putin has a much more realistic and human view of war, and therefore avoids it when he can.

This type of attitude is not only a very dangerous miscalculation, it also hurts European interests and is pushing a Russia that wanted to be European towards a Chinese alliance that poses a major risk to our Greek-Roman civilization.

Not just pushing... kicking and screaming....

In my opinion there are 2 countries that can gain from this, the US and China. One because, in case of conflict, Europe will again be completely dependent on it, or the other because it will be an almost exclusive customer of Russian energy and resources.

This is all the US, and it is all down to stopping the EU and Russia from trading because Russia and the EU really don't need the US for anything and they are so far away.

But then I think this is all actually good for Russia... the west has been very damaging to lots of countries around the world and the last thing the world needs is another west. They need something different, something more like what the west promises instead of what it actually delivers.

This would in turn destroy Ukraines economy.

Yeah, their economy was booming till Russia invaded...

Interesting ideas but lacking one fundamental jigsaw piece... why?

The only reason for Russian troops crossing the border into the Ukraine would be to stop Kievs forces killing Ukrainian citizens in the seperatist regions... as such the invading forces will be subsonic low flying and will also likely include a few ballistic very high speed objects... a MiG-31K could deliver air launched Iskanders to 2,000kms distant targets... they could take down their major air defence sites and air bases and drone could probably do most of the rest taking out the logistics chains of the attacking Kiev forces so they fold up and retreat.

Would likely be a surprising number of Kievs conscripts who want to surrender and change sides rather than go back to Kiev.

GarryB wrote:
Would likely be a surprising number of Kievs conscripts who want to surrender and change sides rather than go back to Kiev.

Its likely the conscripts on the trenches know pretty much what is in store for them. So I think a leaflet drop anytime now advising white flags were the day to come, so they did not fire if the order were given, would have a positive effect. It would also give NATO an apoplectic fit

Krepost wrote:What is user SeigSoloyvov's Avatar?
It looks a bit like the Russian double headed eagle but it has Nazi style wings.
His user name is also Nazi sounding with a Russian twist at the end:
- Seig (like the Nazi Seig Heil slogan)
- SeigSoloyvov : like the Nazi SS

You should have just send him an PM asking about it.
This is just an hit below the belt.

Seig's icon is the Imperium of Man from 40K

Warhammer 40K is an massive game franchise, that has a lot of fans.
Including myself....and Seig,...and Papadragon,...Our hollywood Ambasador Henry cavill .
Might want to check that franchise out .

|


And it is not Seig, its Sieg. from Sieg Heil.
Where one said Sieg, meaning Victory in german.
And was replied with Heil!, maining Hail! in german

JohninMK wrote:Well knock me down with a feather.

It looks like the EU's favourite could be about to stuff them, in the best possible way, either in the wallet or by making the Russians cease gas shipments. Panic start of NS2 anyone?

I think that is going to happen sooner than later, my own government wanted to shut down its gas fields in the North. to prevent land subsiding that resulted in (small) earthquakes that damage homes.

But in an emergency move has opened them back up to full capacity to extract gas for our own national market.

Things indeed do not go very well here in the EU regarding gas availability
Its all very sad.....
I try to look at the bright side, at least my PC never ran this cool before, do not have to put my beer in the fridge for now.

GarryB wrote:Before the west started screwing around in Kiev Russia had accepted that the Crimea was the Ukraine and were not going to argue or fight over it.

I remember reading the news before 2014. Russia was fully expecting Ukraine to either not renew the base lease in Sevastopol or make unreasonable demands about the renewal. There were plans and even a state budget was allocated for making ship berths and port facilities in Novorossyisk as an alternative to Sevastopol to host at least part of the Black Sea Fleet. This was to be expanded later. Then 2014 happened and this got cancelled for rather obvious reasons.

Airbornewolf wrote:I think that is going to happen sooner than later, my own government wanted to shut down its gas fields in the North. to prevent land subsiding that resulted in (small) earthquakes that damage homes.

A similar deal happened when they tried doing hydraulic fracturing several years back near Basel in Switzerland. It caused an earthquake in a region where they simply don't exist. IIRC they were trying to get geothermal power by digging deep wells and injecting water at high pressure into the ground. At high depth the Earth temperature is higher this heats the water and then they use that to generate power. Injecting that water causes rock fracturing to happen and some soil subsiding can happen. They said it was supposed to be minor. Then it caused like a 3.4 magnitude earthquake. Like I said, in a place where such things do not naturally occur. They pulled the plug on that project.

Draining the gas underground and causing land subsiding in a nation like the Netherlands which has huge parts of it under the sea level behind a sea wall sounds really smart doesn't it?
I just hope nothing happens. All this bending the knee to the US is causing a major financial depression in the EU and Australia as they had to cut trade with Russia and China respectively as is. We don't need a large needless human death toll on top of that.

GarryB wrote:.

This would in turn destroy Ukraines economy.

Yeah, their economy was booming till Russia invaded...

Interesting ideas but lacking one fundamental jigsaw piece... why?.

I did mention as a last resort.

And if western Ukraine is going into the hands of NATO, taking away industry, tank building facilities, and making in landlocked is a bonus for Russia, and a further degradation of Ukraine, making the west having to pump more money into it to keep it afloat. If Ur going to make them suffer might as well do it right lol. It would be good for a newly independent eastern Ukraine. And as mentioned the bonus of Transnistria and Gagauzia link up, and potential target of Moldova if the west wants to play the game further.

You couldn't make this up..................but they did at the Daily Mail today.

Did warm weather force Putin to cancel Ukraine invasion? Mild winter means the ground is too muddy for hundreds of Russian tanks to charge over border, US advisers say

100,000 troops, tanks and armoured cars are stationed on the Ukraine border
The ground is usually frozen solid but mild weather has created muddy quagmire
Joe Biden's weather experts say this has caused Putin to delay invasion

d_taddei2 wrote:

I did mention as a last resort.

And if western Ukraine is going into the hands of NATO, taking away industry, tank building facilities, and making in landlocked is a bonus for Russia, and a further degradation of Ukraine, making the west having to pump more money into it to keep it afloat. If Ur going to make them suffer might as well do it right lol. It would be good for a newly independent eastern Ukraine. And as mentioned the bonus of Transnistria and Gagauzia link up, and potential target of Moldova if the west wants to play the game further.

I believe for NATO, it was their primary objective to take the black sea fleet port to deny Russia acces to the black sea and the Med.
And by doing that also give an massive morale blow to Russia. Given the historical value of Crimea to Russian Culture.

NATO went apeshit internally when ships that where Ukrainian swore allegiance to Russia and the first MI helicopters appeared overhead.
While first gloating Russia lost its only major naval acces point during briefings as soon Kiev fell.
It was just so obvious they where focussed in getting a hold of this area.

by the way, for anyone who is interrested or has not seen in it yet. Here is Putin's interview with english subtitles about the events in ukraine during and after the Coup.
I can no longer find an higher-res version of it.
It contains interviews from people in Crimea as well.
*NSFW for violent content*
https://vimeo.com/123319119

lancelot wrote:

GarryB wrote:Before the west started screwing around in Kiev Russia had accepted that the Crimea was the Ukraine and were not going to argue or fight over it.

I remember reading the news before 2014. Russia was fully expecting Ukraine to either not renew the base lease in Sevastopol or make unreasonable demands about the renewal. There were plans and even a state budget was allocated for making ship berths and port facilities in Novorossyisk as an alternative to Sevastopol to host at least part of the Black Sea Fleet. This was to be expanded later. Then 2014 happened and this got cancelled for rather obvious reasons.

I read a few years back that Novorossyisk was far from ideal a major military port also due to heavy winds that often hit it. I believe that before Crimea rejoining Russia they were working on expanding its sea barriers.

JohninMK wrote:You couldn't make this up..................but they did at the Daily Mail today.

Did warm weather force Putin to cancel Ukraine invasion? Mild winter means the ground is too muddy for hundreds of Russian tanks to charge over border, US advisers say

100,000 troops, tanks and armoured cars are stationed on the Ukraine border
The ground is usually frozen solid but mild weather has created muddy quagmire
Joe Biden's weather experts say this has caused Putin to delay invasion

Gotta love this retro shit

Let's all ignore the fact that airforce is a thing and that Syria happened

You should have just send him an PM asking about it.
This is just an hit below the belt.

Seig's icon is the Imperium of Man from 40K

To be fair our Seig friend does claim to be US special forces that was up until recently operating in Syria helping terrorists undermine and murder Syrian people because the US wanted to pipe UAE gas through Iraq and Syria to Turkey in competition for Russian gas...

Murdering people defending their country from the US is sort of Nazi like isn't it?

I think that is going to happen sooner than later, my own government wanted to shut down its gas fields in the North. to prevent land subsiding that resulted in (small) earthquakes that damage homes.

But now the gas price is eye watering.... the extra money could cover the costs incurred by such problems... someone will be making a lot of money...

Then 2014 happened and this got cancelled for rather obvious reasons.

Yes... some people seem to think the Ukraine was pro Russia till this US paid for coup, but they were being complete bastards before the coup.... but they weren't stupid bastards though... they recognised the 15 billion in investment from Russia with probably double that from China vs a few billion in LOANS from the EU is a really obvious and easy choice to make... and so when he made it despite being every bit as anti Russian as any that replaced him, he got replaced for not making the Ukrainian people suffer to inflict a little suffering on Russia... which the US expects from all countries in Europe.

Draining the gas underground and causing land subsiding in a nation like the Netherlands which has huge parts of it under the sea level behind a sea wall sounds really smart doesn't it?

When the gas prices go high enough many countries will think it is fine... they can do this and that to make it safe....r.

I did mention as a last resort.

Well having said all that I said it really depends on the people on the ground.... if you had said Russia could take Crimea back in 2010 I would have said no chance... they wouldn't even try.... but the situation was created where the people of the Crimea were allowed to have their own say and they made the choice and here we are... so never say never... but most of the people in these regions don't see themselves as Russian like the Crimeans did and do.

They might leap at the chance of escape from Kievs rule because it is obviously not improving things.... just depends on the people with power in each of the regions... more of the same, or a chance at going back to normal trade with Russia which is a hell of a lot better than what they have now.

Joe Biden's weather experts say this has caused Putin to delay invasion

Hahahaha... that is the problem right there... Creepy Joe is getting military advice from the weather man...

The thing is that any Russian invasion would be based on what Kiev does... if Kiev does nothing Russia will do nothing. Kiev invades and Russia will act to stop them... for Russia weather does not come in to it.

"To be fair our Seig friend does claim to be US special forces that was up until recently operating in Syria helping terrorists undermine and murder Syrian people because the US wanted to pipe UAE gas through Iraq and Syria to Turkey in competition for Russian gas...

Murdering people defending their country from the US is sort of Nazi like isn't it?"

I never claimed what my rank or position was but by your definition, every major power on earth are Nazi's has each country has killed people defending their own land at one point or another.

Why must you make such stupid remarks?

When I go around and start killing people solely based on their race and that the American race is the master race and all of that shit, then you can rightfully call me a Nazi. Until then you can stick those accusations up your rear.

The head admin on this forum going "well he's kinda like a nazi, cause he's from the US hur hur" have some standards real Piece of trash move to go there and you know it.

Meanwhile Canada plans to build an ammo factory in Ukraine

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/defence-watch/canada-making-plans-to-build-ammo-factory-in-ukraine-amid-tensions-with-russia

JohninMK wrote:Meanwhile Canada plans to build an ammo factory in Ukraine

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/defence-watch/canada-making-plans-to-build-ammo-factory-in-ukraine-amid-tensions-with-russia

lol.

We cant even have ammo for our troops for most part.

But hey, make some money before it gets destroyed.

But we all know Ukraine cannot afford to build the plant. Seeing as how they are now talking about having to syphon off Russian Gas.