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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #31

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    ALAMO


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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #31 - Page 17 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #31

    Post  ALAMO 21/01/22, 10:03 pm

    Isos wrote:
    ALAMO wrote:
    Isos wrote:
    Shtora eyes thing work only against some atgm, the ones that have noze mounted guidance. Most societ made atgm that ukraine has have back facing or wire guidances.

    But you have some idea what Sztora is, and how it works? Must not be in the close details ... asking serious. scratch

    It's quite simple.The eyes on the front of t-90 turns on and blind the guidance system of the enemy missile. Smoke grenade launchers are also connected to it.

    Yes, but there is a devil.
    All the missiles that use semi active LOS guidance, are working in a similar principle. No matter if those are radio commanded, wired, or beam riders.
    They compare the position of the missile with the relevance of the target and make necessary corrections.
    How? Well, all of the missiles has emitters on the back, that glows signals back to the guidance system, which decodes it, makes corrections, and sends it back.
    An emitter is usually IR, in some cases a laser pulse, but the concept is the same. It used to be just a light for early missiles.
    The way Sztora fights that is emitting a full spectrum IR mist, that hides the missile emitter with a backlight, blinding the guidance channel. You see no missile - you can't correct it.
    How to resolve it?
    Well, using a mixed wave length emitter, or a different coding ...
    But the question is, if you can keep the missile picture, facing a very powerful background emitter? Either yes or no Laughing Laughing
    So in opposite to what you have said, it affects SACLOS missiles having the emitter in back, and the command method makes no difference, let it be wire or radio.
    If it works against a "nose mounted guidance"?
    Well, depending what do you mean.
    If we are talking a missiles with own targeting cone/homing head, the question is what kind of? IR? IIR? Radar? Laser?
    Radar - won't work obviously as IR emitter, but can put a Tucha smoke screen that will cut off the radar waves.
    Laser? Same.
    IR and IIR? Well ... hard to say.
    First of all, the emission is not full sphere - it travers 360deg with the turret, but it is "only" -10/+25 deg vertical. So yes, at some distance, it will still cover the flight path of a missile, but as it will close in - will jump out of a cone. So most of the top-attack ammo will be highly immune, even the ones launched from the ground would be immune to some point.
    Is the Sztora emission strong&multispectral enough to fool the thermal homing as it is? Well, there are some rumors about that, some of them serious. Filin dazzlers for the Navy put that question on the table not long time ago.
    But that would be quite easy to resolve, just update the homing pattern, and home on jam, targeting just the middle.
    Sure, you can have the accuracy issue, but a hit would be scored in most of the cases anyway.

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    Post  lyle6 21/01/22, 10:20 pm

    Shtora's dazzler only works against guidance involving coded IR emissions which neither Javelin or NLAW use. Javelin is a fire and forget missile with a passive thermal imaging seeker while NLAW is an inertial guidance with terminal proximity fuzing. More modern wire-guided and beam riding ATGMs are also quite resistant to Shtora-1s dazzling technology.

    Ukraine doesn't have that much of either, however. Most of its ATGM stocks are cold war legacy crap that are either getting or have already expired. I suspect much of the anecdotes about impenetrable Russian missile shields are really just the missiles showing their life.

    Doesn't really matter though. Closing in with the tanks leading the charge is but one of the available tactics in the Russian repertoir. The Russians have near complete firepower mastery of the Ukrainians at this point. At virtually any range they can out observe, and out range the Ukrainians. They could just as easily just sit and have the heavy artillery pound their targets to dust while micro UAVs comb through the countryside looking for suitable catch basins for 152 mm shells. Or let the RuAF have their fun and have their jets painted with stars all over. They are that spoiled for choices. Twisted Evil

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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #31 - Page 17 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #31

    Post  ALAMO 21/01/22, 10:43 pm

    Good to add, that ONE of Javelin operation formulas is what you have described.
    While the other is kind of SACLOS, only the target position is followed by tube mounted thermal scope.

    And NLAW is not a guided munition to be precise. It uses a PLOS principle, that is the predicted line of sight.
    An operator needs to follow a moving target for "a few" seconds, after that an aiming point is updated.
    That is really funny to read how the shitstream is trying to make it sound like supa dupa sophisticated thing out of something you get mounting a new generation sight on RPG ...
    The only interesting feature if adopted from Bill technology flight path over line of sight, making it capable for top attack.
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #31 - Page 17 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #31

    Post  GarryB 21/01/22, 10:48 pm

    More like the Soviet collapse and border revisions were terrible after disintegration which has allowed the Americans to go in and bitchslap Russia on its own historical territories for influence.

    You mean like the US did to Britain in Australia and Canada and to a lessor extent New Zealand.... and is trying now in India...

    Yeah, that is more a reflection of the US than anything else really... a very destructive country... they managed to break the Ukraine... congrats.

    Do you think Russia should go in there and save them?

    Ukraine is not children, it is a country and responsible for its actions and decisions... right now it is dealing with some rather tough consequences of its choice to join a new gang... which is especially amusing because neither gang they want to join will accept them in their current state.

    In the case of "Ukraine", barring a full scale invasion Russia has no feasible way of flipping the state back to its fold. Russia simply can't out bribe nor outmaneuver through soft power the empire and its lackies. Not even on its own historical territories.

    Even if it doesn't learn in two or three elections the current course cannot be sustained forever... it is not Russia that needs to change policy in this situation... it is Kiev that is going under and will soon be stealing gas.

    Of course if we were talking pre-1917 the empire would already be considered to be deep in Russian territory, fucking over Russian citizens and Putin hanged for being a fool, twice.

    Russian citizens brainwashed into believing they are Ukrainian or whatever they think they are. Europeans went to America and suddenly became Americans too... the transformation is not rare or unique and happens all the time... their trouble is that often the locals don't accept you straight away so in your new country you are considered a foreigner but you don't want to go back home because you are already different.


    The massive economic costs the West threatens to impose sends chills down the spine of every Russian chickenhawk and oligarch there is.

    All the obvious sanctions have been used... the only ones left can't be used because they will backfire... if you kick Russia out of SWIFT how will the EU pay for Russian Gas? How will America pay for Russian oil and Titanium? Russia wont be handing out stuff for free, which means every country and company that wants to do business with Russia will need to join their money transaction system which means the money will be transfered but it will be Russia in control of the transfer company and making the money on the transactions, and it will be SWIFT that loses that business.

    That's why there is talk of so much "wise" restraint. Give me a fucking break. It's plain fear of the consequences, nothing more, nothing less. No amount of third rate spin is gonna change that.

    Knee jerk irrational responses got US troops in Iraq and Afghanistan over 11/9, but it is OK because that was 20 plus years of war money well spent right?

    I understand the Nazi streak within the US... you kill one American soldier and we will bomb and attack and kill 100 of yours... even if it later turns out you didn't do anything... but no body hears about that till much later and often due to whistle blowers, which are just people with a conscience ironically... but it is the whistle blowers that are put in jail and the criminals walk free...

    Russia should stop providing gas to Ukraine. Now, not later but now. It was a big mistake to prolong the contract in 2019.

    Take away Ukraine's ability to provide heat and electricity to their citizens.

    This would push Ukraine into internal chaos and limit its ability to wage a war against Donbass.

    The gas is paid for and the contract is in place. Russia makes money on those contracts... plus it is not a very nice thing to do to the people of the Ukraine.

    Zelensky was elected on the promise of solving the situation by talking to the rebels, which he simply has not done or even properly attempted to do, so the problem is him. Now whether he chooses not to do it or can't do it because he will be removed in a coup if he tries... or just murdered like Kashogi in a Saudi embassy in Turkey... is a question that needs answering, but cutting off heat to a population in winter is drastic and will just make Russia the perceived enemy in that country instead of their real enemies.

    Kornet does the same job as Javelin at a fraction of the cost. Yet U.K is delivering uber expensive Javelins to Ukraine.

    Kornet reaches to almost 6 times the range of this missile and is supersonic, but this British weapon is rather cheaper than Javelins which are more like 2-300K each.

    If Putin and cadre's crystal ball was so great you wouldn't have lost Ukraine to a soft coup and made subsequent blunder after blunder thereafter.... just like Russia wouldn't have made the mistakes that have allowed NATO expansion eastward etc...

    Russia lost the Ukraine in the early 1990s, and how was Russia supposed to stop HATO expansion?

    Just like the U.S can't predict the full extent of the fallout of a full Ukranian invasion (to retake most of Ukrainian territory) so can't Russia game the full extent of the consequences of such an act, on the economic sphere, military sphere etc.

    You don't need to accurately predict what will actually happen... you just need to work out what likely and unlikely things could happen and then make plans based on what you should do in response.

    The troops Russia has near the border of the Ukraine are obviously there in case Kiev does something stupid... they will be there and ready to act very very quickly.
    The western sources claiming they are an invasion force are ignoring that Kiev also has its forces forward deployed in an invasion posture, which has prompted the Russians to respond, because it supports their claim of an invasion force if you ignore the posture of Kievs forces that they responded to.

    It's easier however to predict outcomes for a smaller operation (Georgia 2.0 OP), thus why the Kremlin scribes propagandize it to the sheep and why the West will be perfectly fine with it (it ensures a status quo that benefits their chessboard move on Ukraine). The only loser will continue to be Russia cause it doesn't solve the problem - it's just kicking the can down the road.

    If the Donbass region gets autonomy and asks for Russian peace keepers for its territory to deter artillery attacks from Kievs forces, and Kiev does not do anything stupid like the tie eater did then Russia will probably be happy with that, and the Donbass people will be overjoyed at finally having peace so they can start working and fix things and make things better for themselves... the only losers will be Kiev because their economy is what it is and all the millions of dollars in donations they have been getting recently have been weapons, and of course the west will be upset at not creating more problems for Moscow...

    As for the ultimatum, if you ask Putin and Russian diplomats it's anything but an ultimatum.

    It is an ultimatum with no threat of force.... it is basically if you want to work together and be partners then you have to recognise our security concerns and our interests, but if you don't or can't then we really have nothing more to discuss with you and we are going to look elsewhere for trade and partnerships.

    The question mark is still: "What is Russia gonna do about it after getting that response". Even more consultations on the agenda - surprise surprise. "We won't allow the U.S to drag this out...".... I'm pretty sure you will.

    The west thinks it is the only game in town, but Putin clearly realises there are other places Russia can look for partnerships and trade... central and south America, Africa, and Asia are regions full of countries wanting trade relations... it is time to push BRICS and expand it with a few more letters too.

    As for Syria, another crystal ball malfunction. A pyrrhic victory (if you can call it that), a frozen conflict with almost 2/3s of Syrian territory outside Damascus control. As much of a failure as it was a success.

    Syria was an immense failure for the US... they wanted to invade Iraq and destabilise Syria so they could pump gas from the middle east to Turkey in direct competition with Russian gas... and they failed. The US couldn't give a shit about the Kurds, other than their use against Assad and potentially Iran and they screwed up.

    It is only a matter of time before the US loses interest and either the kurds try to make a deal or get crushed.

    Ask the Afghans.

    U.S. Sanctions Officials Accused Of Preparing To Take Over Ukraine’s Government On Russia's Behalf

    Ohhh please... paranoid Kiev regime sees enemies under every bed and lashes out. Any member of the current regime that is realising the west is just pushing for conflict against Russia.... ie a war Ukraine cannot possibly win... will realise their best chance is just dropping this pro west bullshit and trying to get better relations with Russia... because the EU and HATO wont take them any time soon.

    culminating with the stupid, massive blunder of recognizing the Kiev regime and legitimizing a coup - much less punish, in any form, those responsible (except nobodies).

    It is not Russias fight. Ukraine is not their problem... unless they start massacring their own citizens right on a Russian border, in which case Russia will take steps to stop Kiev.

    Look how much they hate him, he's doing something right" "He eats his western counterparts for breakfast" "Best statesman of the 21st century".... when you eat that shit up hook, line and sinker it's hard to come back to reality.

    Russia is in the best shape it has ever been, its military has equipment on par with or better than anything in the west with only a few exceptions, and financially it has plenty of reserves and is balancing its budget and not over spending on said military.

    The Ukraine is fucked, but that is hardly Putins problem... that is like blaming the US president for the state of the Mexican economy... or the Canadian economy.

    Russia did not "lose" Ukraine. Ukraine lost itself.

    Ukraine is a gall stone and Russia is better off without it.

    Javelin sucks of course. Regardless of how many Javelins UK ships to Ukraine, APS on T-90 will intercept them.

    The Donbass does not have T-90s.


    Shtora eyes thing work only against some atgm, the ones that have noze mounted guidance. Most societ made atgm that ukraine has have back facing or wire guidances.

    No. SHTORA... the dazzlers part, works against wire guided missiles... the smoke launchers work against the missiles with nose mounted IIR and EO sensors.

    Javelin is a fire and forget missile with a passive thermal imaging seeker while NLAW is an inertial guidance with terminal proximity fuzing.

    Terminal proximity fusing is not a guidance method...

    Doesn't really matter though. Closing in with the tanks leading the charge is but one of the available tactics in the Russian repertoir.

    A defensive war in an urban environment, they could hide their armour and just use artillery and squads of men armed with SVDs, PKMs, and anti armour weapons like RPG and METIS to kill armour and any infantry that get out of the armour...

    Drones and artillery could do enormous damage to Kievs troops... their air defence stuff is old Soviet and not particularly suited to drones.

    And NLAW is not a guided munition to be precise. It uses a PLOS principle, that is the predicted line of sight.
    An operator needs to follow a moving target for "a few" seconds, after that an aiming point is updated.

    So it has an autogyro and has an attack lead flightpath... not really comparable to Javelin then...

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    ALAMO


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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #31 - Page 17 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #31

    Post  ALAMO 21/01/22, 10:59 pm

    Not at all, it is an unguided rocket inside a single use launcher with a targeting sight that adjusts the aiming point after a few seconds following of a moving target.
    There is a whole new nomenclature used to describe it, that is "immune to countermeasures" - this voo doo applies to the fact, that it is just a rocket flying straight forward.

    And by the way, the tube is non reusable Laughing

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    Post  JohninMK 21/01/22, 11:32 pm

    Looks like a minimum of 8 C-17 loads of NLAW have gone in, so about 2500?


    Updated partial 'what's going/has gone in' list from a poster on https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/britain-isnt-letting-ukraine-fall-without-a-fight/#comment-608702

    The Lithuanian government has been sending a load of Soviet era weapons that they no longer need due to conforming to NATO standards, for example in 2017 they sent :
    7 000 Kalashnikov rifles and nearly 2 million cartridges. 80 machineguns, ten mortars, and anti-tank and other weapons.
    Last year they handed over a L-39ZA

    Last night the US government ok’d the Baltic states to hand over US made weapons to the Ukraine, From what I have read that would be Javelin and Stinger, Estonia has also decided to offload their 122 mm howitzers, but are awaiting permission from Berlin to do so, (Finland whom they bought them off, purchased former East German stock from the unified Germany)

    The Yanks have supplied 360 Javelin missiles (37 launchers). 13 AN/TPQ-36 Firefinder radars (first delivery made in 2015)
    They have also purchased kit off of a few NATO countries:
    Canada
    Czechia
    Denmark
    France
    Poland
    Spain
    Turkey

    But the most interesting item I can spot is the purchase of 100 Warmate Loitering munitions from Poland (battle proven in Libya) . The link will take you to its website (its in English) and the enclosed video appears impressive https://www.wbgroup.pl/en/produkt/warmate-loitering-munnitions/


    I posted this in the same thread

    Have any of you supporting our supply of NLAW and encouraging the shipping of even more equipment thought this through?

    OK I accept that thousands of anti tank missiles is going to make any attacker pause for thought when used for defence. But as we all know these weapons are equally valuable when used in attack.

    You are no doubt aware that the Kiev Government has had a stated objective since 2015 of regaining control of the Donbas, if necessarily by force, and have many 10,000s of troops down there in WW1 type trench systems on the demarcation line waiting for the opportunity..

    What if the sudden arrival of so much good offensive weapons systems allows the Government to believe that it has altered the local balance of power such that, given the lack of strategic depth, a quick strike might be successful?

    Whilst everyone else knows that the Russians will not let that happen and will strike back hard. In such a situation thousands on both sides will die.

    Is this what you want? Do you hate the Russians so much that you want those deaths on that altar?

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    Post  jhelb 22/01/22, 12:06 am

    Isos wrote:Most societ made atgm that ukraine has have back facing or wire guidances.
    I read reports that Ukraine had also got hold of RPG 30 and RPG 32 from middle eastern smugglers. But now they are purchasing NLAW. This means 404 doesn't have enough RPG 30 and 32.

    NLAW is a poor western copy of the RPG 30. That too 3x more expensive.
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    Post  ALAMO 22/01/22, 12:15 am

    JohninMK wrote:Looks like a minimum of 8 C-17 loads of NLAW have gone in, so about 2500?

    It depends on that, how many of them you had for utilization.

    jhelb wrote:

    NLAW is a poor western copy of the RPG 30.

    There is nothing similar in them, yet to call it a copy.
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    Post  zorobabel 22/01/22, 06:08 am

    The Baltic states are sending more Javelins and Stingers
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    Post  Arkanghelsk 22/01/22, 06:58 am

    People tend to forget Ukraine had orange revolution in 2004.

    Putin didnt "lose" Ukraine, ukraine had been flirting with the West since before Yuschenko. It had always been a problem with Ukraine.

    Then as now, Russia has nothing to gain from Ukraine, the US is using Ukraine to partition Europe from Russia, which does more damage to Europe then to Russia.

    Europe is American economic competitor for IP rights. They compete in intellectual property and designs of goods and technology. They both use China, and the US cannot cut EU from China, but they do try with Russia.

    For Russia it is not up to them to fight for European sovereignty, or Ukraines for that matter.

    If europe wants to let their economy go to shit it's there call. As for Ukraine they try for years to enter the EU, and we all know it will never happen.

    So why all the crying about Putin "losing" ukraine?

    Putin could give 2 shits about Ukraine, and Russian citizens and elite could also.

    And noone is getting chills down their spines from sanctions threats.

    The ones saying if Russia does a massive incursion they will be sanctioned, but if they do a small incursion they will not be sanctioned? Lol get a grip, sounds like they are admitting they know they can do nothing about Ukraine, and Putin will protect Donbass no matter what.

    EU invented assisted suicide, they can show us all how its done

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    Post  zorobabel 22/01/22, 07:14 am

    The US will begin supplying Mi-17 helicopters to Ukraine: https://twitter.com/NatashaBertrand/status/1484581773010948102
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    Post  flamming_python 22/01/22, 07:27 am

    All of those are partisan weapons, not weapons to fight a conventional war, and probably are being redistributed to the countryside as we speak

    I suspect Zelensky has realized that the Ukraine is being assigned to the role of sacrificial lamb and that Poroshenko's task would be to bait Russian forces into an invasion if he overthrows Zelensky by launching an all-out assault on the Donbass. And the trigger for that overthrow would be Zelensky agreeing to return to the Minsk format.

    With that in mind, maybe Zelensky will invite Russian forces in himself What a Face

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    Post  Sujoy 22/01/22, 07:39 am

    flamming_python wrote:All of those are partisan weapons, not weapons to fight a conventional war, and probably are being redistributed to the countryside as we speak
    Off Topic Sounds like the propaganda wing of India's political parties (and of late celebrities) on social media - Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, YT etc. Every 2nd person from India on SM (90% are fake profiles) belongs to these propaganda wing ( called IT cell) whose job is to be the useful idiots of their party bosses. And much like the weapons being supplied to Ukraine these fellows too are of little value in the battlefield called elections.
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    Post  ATLASCUB 22/01/22, 07:52 am

    The great battle of our time currently is for a "response on paper". Shit you not. lol1

    The wheels are coming off...
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    Post  zorobabel 22/01/22, 08:06 am

    https://twitter.com/MarQs__/status/1484590972017254409

    ATZ-12-10-63501 and ATs-7-5350 westbound from the Eastern Military District
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    Post  Arkanghelsk 22/01/22, 08:25 am

    A piece of paper does many things, Hitler signed a piece of paper with Stalin! We all know how it ended

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    Post  par far 22/01/22, 08:38 am

    "Russia, Ukraine and NATO. Facts over feelings"





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    Post  littlerabbit 22/01/22, 09:33 am


    Something interesting to read... Exclamation



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    Post  thegopnik 22/01/22, 09:51 am

    https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/foreign-secretarys-speech-to-the-lowy-institute

    bringing up the chechnya and Afghanistan story. chechnya was in their own country not comparable to ukraine because they wont give a shit what they destroy because whatever they destroyed in russia would have gave the country more debt and it was poor after the soviet union dissolved and now it isnt. Afghanistan soldiers with drawing was the results of the soviet union collapsing. These feel good speeches of bringing up those two examples are entirely different to what can happen to Ukraine.
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    Post  medo 22/01/22, 10:46 am



    People in Ukraine have no money for food, wood and medicines and they are dying. They have no gas, no coal, no wheet and not enough wood for all.




    Prices for wood jump for 602%.

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    Post  par far 22/01/22, 12:20 pm


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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #31 - Page 17 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #31

    Post  bitcointrader70 22/01/22, 02:57 pm

    Russia is weak and backed into a corner. The only option they have is to strike first and strike hard with tactical nukes. They are at about 20% capacity of the USSR and America is much farther ahead today in economic, political, and military dominance than during the Soviet era. Sucks to be Russian.

    They wont stop until Russians are killing each other Syria and Yugoslavia style. They won’t stop until Russia physically stops them. NATO is run by mad men but they are smart and have almost every advantage.

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    Arkanghelsk
    Arkanghelsk


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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #31 - Page 17 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #31

    Post  Arkanghelsk 22/01/22, 04:06 pm

    Russia cannot be backed into a corner , that is 17 million km2

    Russia has more land and resources than any nation or bloc out there.

    Ulyanovsk novosibirsk and kazan all go through infrastructural updates and the cities are at nice population sizes.

    No overcrowding, domestic production of cheap quality food, and self sustenance.

    Its resources are estimated at over 75 trillion dollars. With such a large reserve of currency and gold, Russia is in prime position.

    Russian corporations are growing and expanding into other sectors.

    Russia is at prosperity not witnessed before, thanks to lack of war and peace dividend.

    Let USA kill its competitor EU.

    As for NATO weapons everything is already being resolved, today blinken was crushed. His boss will be lame duck by summer.

    Russia is on the right path.

    USA is facing civil war by summer, EU is frozen with high energy Bill's, and russia china business goes up very nicely.

    It's time to watch the Olympics in Russia, the winter team has good chances this year.

    I feel bad for Americans with hyperinflation and political turmoil, and very cold EU

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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #31 - Page 17 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #31

    Post  bitcointrader70 22/01/22, 04:15 pm

    Arkanghelsk wrote:Russia cannot be backed into a corner , that is 17 million km2

    Russia has more land and resources than any nation or bloc out there.

    Ulyanovsk novosibirsk and kazan all go through infrastructural updates and the cities are at nice population sizes.

    No overcrowding,  domestic production of cheap quality food, and self sustenance.

    Its resources are estimated at over 75 trillion dollars. With such a large reserve of currency and gold, Russia is in prime position.

    Russian corporations are growing and expanding into other sectors.

    Russia is at prosperity not witnessed before, thanks to lack of war and peace dividend.

    Let USA kill its competitor EU.

    As for NATO weapons everything is already being resolved, today blinken was crushed. His boss will be lame duck by summer.

    Russia is on the right path.

    USA is facing civil war by summer, EU is frozen with high energy Bill's,  and russia china business goes up very nicely.

    It's time to watch the Olympics in Russia, the winter team has good chances this year.

    I feel bad for Americans with hyperinflation and political turmoil, and very cold EU

    Sorry but you couldn’t be more wrong. The hyperinflation here is minimal compared to sketch’s ability to print money to solve all of its problems. There won’t be a civil war because America’s political elite is United aside from a small group that supports trump. They have negligible power which is why our elections were rigged and trump was ousted.

    Losing the eastern bloc and now Ukraine was/is devastating for Russia. You can’t keep retreating forever. Russia is broke dude. They have no cash. They have the same inflation that’s going on in America. Everything in Russia costs 20-30% more now just like in the US. Most Russians are not happy. With more sanctions and swift being turned off it will be more pain.

    Resolved? NATO is sending a ton of weapons into Ukraine and Russia does nothing. Pretty soon they will send SAMS, tanks, and planes.
    Probably a whole nato deployment.

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    Arkanghelsk
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #31 - Page 17 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #31

    Post  Arkanghelsk 22/01/22, 04:22 pm

    America is broke, they are paying 500k + for starter family home that most cannot afford.

    The ones who cannot afford live in efficiency paying 2k a month.

    Your public infrastructure is shit i95 kills more people than COVID and your government leaves you to its mercy

    Not only that but I've seen NYC Miami los Angeles and it's a disaster,  your paying 4 per gallon to move bumper to bumper. Around ethnic tensions throughout urban cities

    Most of you work in fast food chains without health insurance,  but have the latest iPhone

    As for NATO, Russia could sneeze and wipe that shit from the border.

    And you're not united, you're getting lame duck when Republicans win summertime. Your interest going up buddy.

    Goodluck with trump 2024

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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #31 - Page 17 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #31

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