Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov #3

Adm. Gorshkov at Murmansk.
Before sailing for the Zircon test launch.

Note: it has the "Z" painted on the funnel.

TASS; Jun 1, 09:54 (Updated 09:54)

In 2022, the carrier of hypersonic weapons, the frigate "Admiral Golovko" will go to Northern fleet.

The frigate will become the first full-time carrier of sea-based hypersonic weapons




SEVEROMORSK, June 1. /TASS/. The frigate "Admiral Golovko" will enter the Northern Fleet before the end of the year. This was announced on Wednesday by the commander of the Northern Fleet, Admiral Alexander Moiseev.

“Until the end of this year, in accordance with the plans of the state arms development program, we expect the fleet to receive the third frigate of this project (22350 - TASS note) - Admiral Golovko,” he said.

According to the commander, the frigate will become the first full-time carrier of sea-based hypersonic weapons.

"Admiral Golovko" is the third and second in the series frigate of project 22350. The Northern Fleet now has two frigates of this project - "Admiral Gorshkov" and "Admiral Kasatonov". The main strike weapon of the frigates is the Caliber-NK missile system. "Admiral Gorshkov" takes part in the testing of hypersonic anti-ship missiles "Zirkon".

https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/14788369

Plans for the transfer of project 22350 military frigates were shared at Severnaya Verf

The shipbuilding enterprise Severnaya Verf is currently building 24 ships, including six frigates of project 22350, including a modernized project. Igor Orlov, general director of Severnaya Verf, spoke about this.

Shipyard "Severnaya Verf" is building six frigates of project 22350, the ships are at various stages of construction. The military will be the first to receive the Admiral Golovko frigate, then, according to the plan, the transfer the fleet frigate "Admiral Isakov", and then the frigates "Admiral Amelko" and "Admiral Chichagov" of the modernized project 22350.

The fleet will be the first to receive the Admiral Golovko frigate, the ship will be handed over to the military by the end of the year. Then Severnaya Verf will hand over the Admiral Isakov, which will be the last ship of the basic configuration of project 22350. It is planned to be transferred to the fleet in 2024. At the same time, the military should also receive the first modernized frigate "Admiral Amelko". The transfer of another frigate of the modernized Admiral Chichagov project is scheduled for 2025.

The frigate "Admiral Golovko" is planned to be commissioned this year. On the "[Admiral] Isakov" hull-assembly work and interior painting continue. Delivery of the order - in 2024 (...) The frigates of the modernized project continue to manufacture sections and form hulls, work is underway to conclude contracts for the supply of equipment and mechanisms. "Admiral Amelko" should be commissioned in 2024, and "Admiral Chichagov" - in 2025

- leads TASS words of the head of "Northern shipyard".

Project 22350 ships have a displacement of 5 thousand tons with a length of 135 m and a width of 16 m. The frigate is able to travel 4500 miles, while reaching speeds of up to 29 knots. The autonomy of navigation is 30 days. Crew - from 170 people. The frigate is armed with: 130-mm artillery mount A-192, anti-aircraft missile system "Polyment-Redut"; launchers for 16 Onyx or Caliber anti-ship missiles, Paket anti-submarine complex, Ka-27 anti-submarine helicopter.

The frigates of the modernized project will receive a larger displacement and enhanced strike weapons in the form of 32 vertical universal launchers of the UKKS complex instead of 16, as in the basic version.

https://en.topwar.ru/200317-na-severnoj-verfi-podelilis-planami-po-peredache-voennym-fregatov-proekta-22350.html

So by 2025 the VMF should have 6x 22350, that is a substantial improvement indeed

LMFS wrote:The frigates of the modernized project will receive a larger displacement and enhanced strike weapons in the form of 32 vertical universal launchers of the UKKS complex instead of 16, as in the basic version.

32 tubes? IIRC the info available to date says 24 tubes. Can anyone confirm?

Big_Gazza wrote:32 tubes?  IIRC the info available to date says 24 tubes.  Can anyone confirm?

You are right, what we had heard until now was 24 VLS cells. Maybe error by the journo as usual

The tenth frigate of project 22350 will be named "Admiral Vysotsky". And since we already know that 5 (Golovko is sixth of them) frigates are already under construction and the names of those frigates have been known for a long time, we now also know the name of the tenth frigate. It remains only to disclose the name of the 9th frigate.
Here is a text about it from RIA Novosti.


Commander-in-Chief of the Navy unveiled a monument to Admiral Vysotsky in Moscow
Commander-in-Chief of the Navy Admiral Evmenov opened a monument to Admiral Vysotsky and named the frigate after him




MOSCOW, August 18 - RIA Novosti. Commander-in-Chief of the Russian Navy, Admiral Nikolai Evmenov, unveiled a monument to Admiral Vladimir Vysotsky in Moscow on Thursday and gave the order to name the 10th project 22350 frigate in the series after him, RIA Novosti correspondent reports.
The Commander-in-Chief of the Russian Navy (2007-2012), Admiral Vladimir Vysotsky, died on February 5 last year at the age of 67.


The opening of the monument took place at the Troyekurovka cemetery. The ceremony was also attended by USC Deputy Head, former Commander-in-Chief of the Russian Navy Admiral Vladimir Korolev, Honorary Scientific Director of the Sarov Nuclear Center Radiy Ilkaev, former Deputy Chief of Armaments Vice-Admiral Nikolai Borisov, widow Natalya Vysotskaya and son Sergei Vysotsky, now captain of the third rank of the Russian Navy .

"Admiral Vysotsky made difficult, uncompromising decisions, never looked back, never, as our Supreme Commander says, never "bend" under anyone. And if he believed that the fleet needed it, he put all his strength into it. Unfortunately, this and was the reason for the early departure from us on the last voyage," Evmenov said.
According to him, by decision of the military council of the fleet, supported by the Club of Admirals and personnel, one of the ships will be named after Vysotsky - "the order has already been issued."

"Admiral Vysotsky" will still go to sea and will fulfill all the tasks assigned to it," the commander-in-chief promised.
He told RIA Novosti that such a ship would be the tenth project 22350 frigate in the series, "this is a continuation of the Admiral's series."
Former Commander-in-Chief of the Russian Navy, Admiral Vladimir Korolev, in an interview with a RIA Novosti correspondent, philosophically noted that each commander-in-chief is given his own time period: "Admiral Vysotsky had to start building the lead ships of the far sea zone: frigates 22350 and corvettes 22380, a series of which is already in combat composition of the fleet."

08/26/2022
Izvestia.ru

Hypersonic barrier: The Black Sea Fleet will receive frigates - carriers of Zircons


Image source: Photo: RIA Novosti / Pavel Lvov

They will be built with updated air defense and anti-submarine defense systems.

Frigates - carriers of hypersonic missiles "Zircon" will be improved. The ninth and 10th ships of project 22350, which will be laid down this year, will receive a new radar system, air defense systems, and protection against submarines will be improved. It is expected that by 2028 both frigates will join the Black Sea Fleet. It is noteworthy that the 10th and last representative of this ship series will be named after Admiral Vladimir Vysotsky, the former Commander-in-Chief of the Navy, who passed away last year.



In memory of the commander-in-chief

As Izvestia was told in the military department, a plan for the construction of the last two frigates of the 22350 series is now being agreed. It is planned that these ships will receive a new radar station and updated air defense systems and complexes. A project is also being developed to improve the means of protection against potential enemy submarines. According to sources, the main task is to reliably protect ships from promising means of attack by the enemy and to ensure that the crews of frigates are able to accurately and on time launch Zircon hypersonic missiles.

According to military historian Dmitry Boltenkov, both of the newest frigates should replenish the Black Sea Fleet in at least five years. During this time, a potential enemy may already have new promising anti-ship weapons.

- It could be a line of new anti-ship missiles, including those that are hardly visible to radars. Or, for example, new high-precision aerial bombs or missiles,” the expert noted. - Frigates 22350 are carriers of Zircon hypersonic missiles. Therefore, they will become a priority target both for ships and aircraft, and for submarines of a potential enemy.

The 10th and last project 22350 frigate in the series has already received its name - Admiral Vysotsky. In August of this year, Commander-in-Chief of the Navy Nikolai Evmenov unveiled a monument to his predecessor, Admiral Vladimir Vysotsky. He announced the decision to name the 10th frigate after him. According to Yevmenov, the relevant order has already been issued. Admiral Vladimir Vysotsky died suddenly in February last year. He commanded the Russian Navy from 2007 to 2012 and left a good memory of himself among the sailors. Vysotsky was the last commander-in-chief to this day, whose service was on surface ships. In particular, in the early 90s, he commanded the heavy aircraft-carrying cruiser Varyag.

“It is a normal tradition to call warships by their names, because commanders in chief go a long way,” Admiral Valentin Selivanov, former chief of the Navy Main Staff, told Izvestia. - Vladimir Vysotsky served on surface ships. Project 22350 ships are the most modern in our fleet, they can perform any task in the ocean zone. They have both protection from air strikes and powerful weapons against both surface and underwater targets.

Carriers of "Zircon"

Project 22350 frigates should become regular carriers of Zircon hypersonic missiles. It was the lead ship of this series, Admiral Gorshkov, that was the test site for this product. On August 20, Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu announced the start of serial production of these missiles. “In fact, we have put it into service. This year it will already be documented,” the minister said.

According to the military department, Zircon missiles can cover a distance of more than 1000 km. Their speed is nine times faster than the speed of sound. It is able to maneuver in dense layers of the atmosphere. It is believed that even the most modern air and missile defense systems cannot effectively hit such ammunition - they have too little time after the detection of the object. At the same time, the missile is unified and can be used both against ground and surface targets.

In February, Izvestia's sources in the Ministry of Defense reported that the first regular carrier of the Zircon hypersonic missiles would be the third project 22350 frigate Admiral Golovko, which should replenish the Northern Fleet in December of this year.

Admiral series

A series of frigates, nicknamed the admiral's in the fleet, was laid down in 2006. The lead ship "Admiral Gorshkov" was handed over to the fleet in 2018, the next - "Admiral Kasatonov" - went into operation in July last year. At the end of 2022, the Admiral Golovko should replenish the ranks of the fleet. In total, according to the plan, 10 frigates of the series should be created. The Admiral Isakov is now at the final stage, work is underway on the construction of the Admiral Chichagov and Admiral Amelko. In 2020, the Admiral Spiridonov and Admiral Yumashev were laid down.

“These frigates should eventually replace the large Soviet-built Project 1155 anti-submarine ships,” Dmitry Boltenkov continued. “They are capable of firing Caliber and Zircon missiles. Good ships of a new generation, with a modern air defense system. They have excellent seaworthiness - the frigate "Admiral Kasatonov" has been sailing in the Mediterranean for six months. In the coming years, new well-armed frigates will form the basis of the surface forces of the Northern, Pacific and Black Sea fleets.

Frigates of the "admiral" series are considered modern representatives of the Russian Navy. These are the first large ships developed in the post-Soviet era. They can operate in the ocean zone both independently and as part of formations.

Representatives of the project 22350 are distinguished by reliability and good seaworthiness. In 2019, the lead ship of the Admiral Gorshkov series at the head of a detachment of Navy ships made a round-the-world voyage, covering more than 40,000 nautical miles (74,000 km) without serious damage.

The arsenal of the "admirals" includes cruise missiles "Kalibr" and anti-ship "Onyx". The ships are equipped with a 130-mm A-192M artillery mount, two 30-mm Broadsword artillery systems, and the Paket-NK anti-submarine system. The frigates have a modern effective electronic warfare system, thanks to which they are reliably protected from detection.

Text; Roman Krecul





https://vpk.name/news/626013_giperzvukovoi_barer_chernomorskii_flot_poluchit_fregaty_nositeli_cirkonov.html

Admiral Golovko, photo taken a few days ago.
All equipment and armament has been installed.
Final touches are being done.
Once everything is finished, it will go on on sea trials.

First picture of the ADMIRAL ISAKOV (4th unit of the class).
She has been taken out of the boathouse

Krepost wrote:First picture of the ADMIRAL ISAKOV (4th unit of the class).
She has been taken out of the boathouse

Isakov was never in the boathouse.  She was being assembled on an open-air slipway.  Pic from Jul 2021:

Big_Gazza wrote:

Krepost wrote:First picture of the ADMIRAL ISAKOV (4th unit of the class).
She has been taken out of the boathouse

Isakov was never in the boathouse.  She was being assembled on an open-air slipway.  Pic from Jul 22021:

Convincingly and without competition, the 22350 frigates are the weakest link of the Russian military-industrial complex !
And don't let anyone mention gas turbines to me again, since Russia already knew in the nineties which direction Ukroshitstan was going when that vermin blew 10 Tu-160s to pieces. I don't understand what the Russians were waiting for.
Every time I read or open a news or column with these frigates - my head hurts. I'm angrier than a mainland Taipan. I responsibly claim that these frigates are already obsolete, except for the armament.
For Russia, which has the longest coastline in the world, range is very important. Yes, nuclear submarines are more dangerous and important, but something has to show the flag on the surface as well.
Other frigates in the world are significantly larger and have a significantly greater sailing range. That's why the Russians resorted to increasing the number of UKSK on the ships because the project is getting old while the 22350M project is still on paper and there is no talk about destroyers. The beginning of construction was in 2006 and now we are at the end of 2022. That project is already 16 years old since the beginning of construction, while the project as a project is even older, because it was approved by the naval command back in July 2003. 20 fucking years !

Podlodka77 wrote:

Big_Gazza wrote:

Krepost wrote:First picture of the ADMIRAL ISAKOV (4th unit of the class).
She has been taken out of the boathouse

Isakov was never in the boathouse.  She was being assembled on an open-air slipway.  Pic from Jul 22021:

Convincingly and without competition, the 22350 frigates are the weakest link of the Russian military-industrial complex !
And don't let anyone mention gas turbines to me again, since Russia already knew in the nineties which direction Ukroshitstan was going when that vermin blew 10 Tu-160s to pieces. I don't understand what the Russians were waiting for.
Every time I read or open a news or column with these frigates - my head hurts. I'm angrier than a mainland Taipan. I responsibly claim that these frigates are already obsolete, except for the armament.
For Russia, which has the longest coastline in the world, range is very important. Yes, nuclear submarines are more dangerous and important, but something has to show the flag on the surface as well.
Other frigates in the world are significantly larger and have a significantly greater sailing range. That's why the Russians resorted to increasing the number of UKSK on the ships because the project is getting old while the 22350M project is still on paper and there is no talk about destroyers. The beginning of construction was in 2006 and now we are at the end of 2022. That project is already 16 years old since the beginning of construction, while the project as a project is even older, because it was approved by the naval command back in July 2003. 20 fucking years !

I agree that it took too long, but in which way they are obsolete?
The only thing they have less in comparison to larger foreign ships are range and endurance.

Other frigates in other navy are frigates just in name and basically light destroyers.

Project 22350M will have practically the same size and displacement of the beautiful project 1155 udaloy class ASW destroyers, which had the same range of a modern FREMM frigate.

So, apart from being annoyed from the delays, I do not see a problem with the project themselves.

Furthermore noone of the foreign frigates is fully indegenous, as several parts are sourced from different countries.

As we discussed many times, the problem of the 90s is that there was no money to invest in an alternative to zorya. In mid 2000 Saturn and Zorya started to develop a new generation of naval gas turbine, with the first few to be manufactured in Nikolayev and later to be also manufactured in Rybinsk (but unfortunately this started also much later, after the events in 2014).
A much bigger problem was with the reduction gears, as Zorya also supplied those. Zvezda in Sankt Petersburg has been tasked with this only after 2014, but they had much more difficulties in comparison to Saturn with the gas turbines.

Anyway, as other users already posted the situation for the gas turbines is now less problematic than 8 years ago. The issue is instead on naval diesel engines, and unfortunately in the past 8 years there has not been a proper state funded and directed program to address this problem.


Note: after the fall of Soviet Union Russia was completely dependent on Ukraine for the supply of many important systems: Ukraine could not build anything on its own, but it had the capability of completely destroying the Russian supply chain. Cutting off Ukraine before Russia was ready was not really a feasible option even in 2005, if they wanted to continue build ships and helicopters.
So they started slowly to design and plan the facilities to build the new generation engines, while trying to appease Ukraine in order not to lose the supply of the existing soviet tech.

The question is another: how idiot must be 2 generations of politicians (Gorbachev and Eltsin entourage) to allow all the south and east of Ukraine, inhabited by Russian population, and home of 30 percent of the soviet industry to end up in a foreign country that was mainly led by American puppets? 

Rodion_Romanovic wrote:
As we discussed many times, the problem of the 90s is that there was no money to invest in an alternative to zorya. In mid 2000 Saturn and Zorya started to develop a new generation of naval gas turbine, with the first few to be manufactured in Nikolayev and later to be also manufactured in Rybinsk (but unfortunately this started also much later, after the events in 2014).
A much bigger problem was with the reduction gears, as Zorya also supplied those. Zvezda in Sankt Petersburg has been tasked with this only after 2014, but they had much more difficulties in comparison to Saturn with the gas turbines.

Anyway, as other users already posted the situation for the gas turbines is now less problematic than 8 years ago. The issue is instead on naval diesel engines, and unfortunately in the past 8 years there has not been a proper state funded and directed program to address this problem.

Period of the 90s is being overused in 2022. There was a big wake up call in 2004 with Orange revolution.
At the time, Russia had more than enough money to start development of naval turbines and reduction gears. Instead they were dragging their feet per usual. 
As for your comments about politicians, Gorbachev was general secretary of Soviet Union. I can't see him, even for a second, taking part of Ukraine and giving it to Russia. Yeltsin was incompetent drunk. He turned his back to Crimea, even if Crimeans held referendums for joining Russia. Annexing south and east of Ukraine would mean invasion and war. No way population of Russia would go along with that, at the time. Invading a friendly country, which it still was, while having huge problems with Chechens and economy at home front.

Every time I read or open a news or column with these frigates - my head hurts. I'm angrier than a mainland Taipan. I responsibly claim that these frigates are already obsolete, except for the armament.
For Russia, which has the longest coastline in the world, range is very important.

Range is not important... in fact long range would be a bad thing... long range does not fall from the sky... it has to be part of the design and you get that by removing other useful stuff and just carrying more fuel and more food for the crew to operate at sea for longer periods... but a long range Corvette makes sense... being a small ship you can send it to a far away region to deal with pirates... its armament is plenty to deal with pirates, but being a small ship it is cheap and easy to send replacement crews and a support ship to keep it on station indefinitely and it would do the job cheaper and easier than any frigate, but normal corvettes and normal frigates are better off having extra weapons and extra equipment like drones and helicopters than extra range.

The Russian Navy is divided up into fleets for a reason and there is no reason for ships of corvette or frigate size to flit from fleet to fleet so any lack of range is no problem at all... they have plenty of range for the areas they will be assigned to operate within.

For longer ranged stuff there will be destroyers and cruisers... upgraded and eventually brand new... and of course the anti piracy corvettes too.

In the west they would have to commit a frigate or a destroyer to anti piracy roles which is expensive and ties up a vessel that would be useful for other things.

The Russians are being smart... I am sure they would prefer they had new gas turbines for their ships but at the end of the day it is not that important... and over time solutions will be found.

There is little point in making long range frigates when the big oceans are flooded with hostile navies, what you need in that situation are large ships with as many defensive measures as possible and a large amount of offensive measures for showing the flag and small short range ships armed to the teeth for defending your own waters.

Podlodka77 wrote:

Big_Gazza wrote:

Krepost wrote:First picture of the ADMIRAL ISAKOV (4th unit of the class).
She has been taken out of the boathouse

Isakov was never in the boathouse.  She was being assembled on an open-air slipway.  Pic from Jul 22021:

Convincingly and without competition, the 22350 frigates are the weakest link of the Russian military-industrial complex !
And don't let anyone mention gas turbines to me again, since Russia already knew in the nineties which direction Ukroshitstan was going when that vermin blew 10 Tu-160s to pieces. I don't understand what the Russians were waiting for.
Every time I read or open a news or column with these frigates - my head hurts. I'm angrier than a mainland Taipan. I responsibly claim that these frigates are already obsolete, except for the armament.
For Russia, which has the longest coastline in the world, range is very important. Yes, nuclear submarines are more dangerous and important, but something has to show the flag on the surface as well.
Other frigates in the world are significantly larger and have a significantly greater sailing range. That's why the Russians resorted to increasing the number of UKSK on the ships because the project is getting old while the 22350M project is still on paper and there is no talk about destroyers. The beginning of construction was in 2006 and now we are at the end of 2022. That project is already 16 years old since the beginning of construction, while the project as a project is even older, because it was approved by the naval command back in July 2003. 20 fucking years !

The problem shouldn't be reduction gears or turbines, they were already produced since 2019. Its just so perplexing that the golovko and isakov haven't been launched yet. The long testing time of the gorshkov shouldve made their production and testing much faster, but that isn't the case. Severnaya verf really sucks.

limb wrote:

Podlodka77 wrote:

Big_Gazza wrote:

Krepost wrote:First picture of the ADMIRAL ISAKOV (4th unit of the class).
She has been taken out of the boathouse

Isakov was never in the boathouse.  She was being assembled on an open-air slipway.  Pic from Jul 22021:

Convincingly and without competition, the 22350 frigates are the weakest link of the Russian military-industrial complex !
And don't let anyone mention gas turbines to me again, since Russia already knew in the nineties which direction Ukroshitstan was going when that vermin blew 10 Tu-160s to pieces. I don't understand what the Russians were waiting for.
Every time I read or open a news or column with these frigates - my head hurts. I'm angrier than a mainland Taipan. I responsibly claim that these frigates are already obsolete, except for the armament.
For Russia, which has the longest coastline in the world, range is very important. Yes, nuclear submarines are more dangerous and important, but something has to show the flag on the surface as well.
Other frigates in the world are significantly larger and have a significantly greater sailing range. That's why the Russians resorted to increasing the number of UKSK on the ships because the project is getting old while the 22350M project is still on paper and there is no talk about destroyers. The beginning of construction was in 2006 and now we are at the end of 2022. That project is already 16 years old since the beginning of construction, while the project as a project is even older, because it was approved by the naval command back in July 2003. 20 fucking years !

The problem shouldn't be reduction gears or turbines, they were already produced since 2019. Its just so perplexing that the golovko and isakov haven't been launched yet. The long testing time of the gorshkov shouldve made their production and testing much faster, but that isn't the case. Severnaya verf really sucks.

In that case what is the solution? Give an order to the Baltic shipyard (also in Sankt Petersburg)(which built the first 3 Taiwar frigates for India in the early 2000s) and it is probably one of the best Shipyards in modern Russia?

 However they are still busy building the last 2 ships of the artika class nuclear icebreaker...

By the way, how did the modernisation of severnaya verf go

limb wrote:The problem shouldn't be reduction gears or turbines, they were already produced since 2019. Its just so perplexing that the golovko and isakov haven't been launched yet. The long testing time of the gorshkov shouldve made their production and testing much faster, but that isn't the case. Severnaya verf really sucks.

The delays in this case have little to do with the shipyard. There were severe delays with the first two ships because of a prolonged development of the electronics and radar. And the other ships have been hit with the Ukrainian embargo i.e. engines and reduction gear. Only recently, like two years ago, was Russia able to replace these imports from Ukraine. And production rate of the engines and reduction gear is still limited.

Also, you are wrong in that the Admiral Golovko was already launched and is in sea trials. The Admiral Isakov will likely be launched this year.

The problem shouldn't be reduction gears or turbines, they were already produced since 2019. Its just so perplexing that the golovko and isakov haven't been launched yet. The long testing time of the gorshkov shouldve made their production and testing much faster, but that isn't the case. Severnaya verf really sucks.

You sound like a 16 year old whose favourite ice cream is not going to be made any more.

The fact that you don't know what has been launched and what has been suggests part of the problem is you not knowing what is going on, but for most people that would trigger them to come on a forum like this and ask around... instead you bitch and moan that a whole shipyard you clearly know little about is not doing a good job... ironic because you clearly don't know that much about them it seems.

It is also annoying for other members you bitching about anything and everything and honestly I wonder how Russia can be as great as it is with friends like you.

Maybe being annoying is a good motivator where you come from, but that just sounds spiteful to me... thinking they will get better just to prove you wrong... well for one it suggests you have a very high opinion of yourself.

Not trying to get personal, but if you don't understand the reaction you get here this is part of the reason... BTW if you go to a pro west forum you will be singled out and probably banned for not being anti Russia and anti Putin enough, which I think is kinda funny... stuck in the middle...

Have you thought the reason they aren't pumping these ships out in enormous numbers is because they are making a new and improved model based on operational experience with the first one and so they don't want a lot of the old design if the new design is going to be much better... which they wont know until they get that into the water and tested and then once the ship they prefer is identified they can open the taps and put them into mass production like you want?

But no... they must be incompetent, or worse corrupt, because obviously the defence budget less than what the UK spends on defence is bloatware corruption personified... fire them all...

There were severe delays with the first two ships because of a prolonged development of the electronics and radar.

Didn't they also have some problems with one of the new large calibre guns that took some time to fix...

The delays in this case have little to do with the shipyard. There were severe delays with the first two ships because of a prolonged development of the electronics and radar. And the other ships have been hit with the Ukrainian embargo i.e. engines and reduction gear. Only recently, like two years ago, was Russia able to replace these imports from Ukraine. And production rate of the engines and reduction gear is still limited.

Also, you are wrong in that the Admiral Golovko was already launched and is in sea trials. The Admiral Isakov will likely be launched this year.

The steregushchiys built in severnaya verf also took very long. The shipyard screwed up big time with the gremyaschiy class, and the provorniy's hull got damaged by fire on their watch. Also the mercuriy class is just a useless hulk for 6 years now, althopugh this has to do with the MoDs constant change of requirements. How is the golovko in state trials if it still has scafolding on its mast?

The fact that you don't know what has been launched and what has been suggests part of the problem is you not knowing what is going on, but for most people that would trigger them to come on a forum like this and ask around... instead you bitch and moan that a whole shipyard you clearly know little about is not doing a good job... ironic because you clearly don't know that much about them it seems.

Ive asked before and most of the time I get  is answers summed up as "dont worry about it, trust the plan", never any concrete information. Of course I can't get concrete info because its all classified. All I see is the results. For an entire rearmament program, just 2 modern medium frigrates which can't replace the dozen agin destroyers and cruisers. But how can I "trust the plan" when the results suck? How can I take musings here about possible how russian carriers will look like when they're built, when its such a struggle to  develop the technology and build components for frigates and corvettes? BTW podlodka77 and isos also "bitch and moan" about the shitty build times in severnaya and other shipyards.

Have you thought the reason they aren't pumping these ships out in enormous numbers is because they are making a new and improved model based on operational experience with the first one and so they don't want a lot of the old design if the new design is going to be much better... which they wont know until they get that into the water and tested and then once the ship they prefer is identified they can open the taps and put them into mass production like you want?

Have you heard the term "obsolete before it enters service"? Its a pretty real thing, like russian and austrohungarian predrednoughts taking 8-10 years to be built and put into service 3 years after britain mass produces dreadnoughts? Better to have old working tech than some zany vaporware thats "supposed to" to work in an undisclosed timeframe.

Maybe being annoying is a good motivator where you come from, but that just sounds spiteful to me... thinking they will get better just to prove you wrong... well for one it suggests you have a very high opinion of yourself.

Not trying to get personal, but if you don't understand the reaction you get here this is part of the reason... BTW if you go to a pro west forum you will be singled out and probably banned for not being anti Russia and anti Putin enough, which I think is kinda funny... stuck in the middle...

Why shouldn't western claims and criticism of russian military industry not be debunked?
Yes, I will stay in the middle unless objective material requirements(andn territorial conquest requirements in ukraine) in the russian armed forces are met

All of that is discussed in this forum, if you bother to read the respective threads, and I won't go off topic to discuss it.

BTW podlodka77 and isos also "bitch and moan" about the shitty build times in severnaya and other shipyards.

Not suggesting you are the only one...

Have you heard the term "obsolete before it enters service"? Its a pretty real thing, like russian and austrohungarian predrednoughts taking 8-10 years to be built and put into service 3 years after britain mass produces dreadnoughts? Better to have old working tech than some zany vaporware thats "supposed to" to work in an undisclosed timeframe.

That is amusing you say that because it is the US that has three Zumwalts and 16 or 17 LCS ships they have since testing them and getting the final bills realised they are useless pieces of shit.

Zumwalt was supposed to be a super stealth destroyer that turned the US MIC on its head by having precision guided gun based artillery that could fire cheap long range guided artillery shells with the performance of a cruise missile for the price of an artillery shell.

They of course totally screwed it up and got the reverse... a naval gun that lacks range and accuracy and fires shells that cost as much as a Tomahawk cruise missile...

But it is the Russian Navy that has the problems because their Frigate is better than anything the US has got... to the point where they are buying Frigates from Italy... that are very similar to the Russian Frigates in concept... which is not obsolete at all.

It is taking as long as it is because their new stuff is spectacular... their gun artillery is amazing... they are getting guns that are lighter than their old 76mm guns 100mm, and 130mm gun turrets that are 74 tons lighter than the older models they used... their new 100mm guns are 15 tons for the gun mount compared with the old 76mm gun mounts that were 16.5 tons... their old 100mm gun turrets were 50 tons... their old 130mm gun turrets were 98 tons, their new 130mm gun mounts are 24 tons.

Ohh... the ships are taking too long because they are testing them in different ports and places in their country at different times of the year in a range of different roles.

Their air defence missiles have gone from 1970s level to up to date, their radar have gone from 1970s level to modern AESA radars and electrooptical systems as good as anything in the west or better, their anti ship missiles are unstoppable and their land attack cruise missiles even HATO defences don't seem to be able to stop in the Ukraine...

But testing these ships and systems takes too long you want some old stuff instead of new stuff.

That is fine.

GarryB wrote:
That is amusing you say that because it is the US that has three Zumwalts and 16 or 17 LCS ships they have since testing them and getting the final bills realised they are useless pieces of shit.
Zumwalt was supposed to be a super stealth destroyer that turned the US MIC on its head by having precision guided gun based artillery that could fire cheap long range guided artillery shells with the performance of a cruise missile for the price of an artillery shell.

Oh that is just a top of an iceberg
After struggling for +/- 4 decades, The Mighty Muricans finally realized that they have no know how to make any kind of modern warship that would fit the present-day navies standard.
So they turned to the Europeans to make their own version of the frigate that is being built for more than 15 years already and will be localized in the very same Fincantieri-owned shipyard that produced the famous Freedom class which had to be taken out of the ranks in 1/3rd of the usual navy ship operation period.
At the very end, this marvel of shipbuilding technology will get the archaic Harpoon missiles or - which is even more hilarious - again some Norwegian ones, and a standard package of Mk 41, at the reasonable and acceptable price of $750 mln a piece

Please note that it is not like I laugh out of the Muricans, because it is much much more serious issue.
The whole story is an effect of deteriorating know&how, skilled manpower, and that applies to all the aspects.
Back in the 70s/80s, warships were made in long series that allowed to proper test&check them, and implementation improvements in the following stages. AB class destroyers, or Tico class, were not such brilliant just from the beginning, but because the series was long enough to let all the involved learn the lessons. Virginia is being built relatively smoothly because it is not a new submarine but a further development of the 688 type.

F I N A L L Y... !!!!!!!!!!

November 14, 10:50,
updated November 14, 11:17

The frigate "Admiral Golovko" will enter the first stage of testing in the coming days

General Director of Severnaya Verf, Igor Orlov, said that "in the nearest delivery plans, we still have two warships - a corvette and a frigate, two civilian ships - a trawler and a longline ship"

ST. PETERSBURG, November 14. /TASS/. The latest frigate "Admiral Golovko" project 22350 will enter the first stage of testing in the coming days. Igor Orlov, general director of Severnaya Verf, announced this to TASS on Monday.

“We are at the final stage of testing the Mercury corvette, and we do not give up hope, despite all the difficulties, to hand it over this year. The newest frigate Admiral Golovko is at the beginning of sea trials, which will enter the first stage of testing in the coming days ", - he said.

According to Orlov, "we still have two warships - a corvette and a frigate, two civilian ships - a trawler and a longline ship, in the nearest delivery plans." "This is very difficult in every respect, since we are building prototypes - we are talking about civil courts, and of course - together with the customer, in fact, we are polishing the project," Orlov said.

“Tomorrow, our longliner is scheduled to go to sea for the first time. In December, the trawler will also feel the water,” he noted. “These are serious tasks for the plant. There has not been such a rate of delivery of ships for a long time. Next year there are also very serious tasks.”

On Monday, Severnaya Verf (part of the United Shipbuilding Corporation JSC) celebrates 110 years since its founding.

https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/16316089

November 15, 01:21

"Severnaya Verf" will lay an additional five frigates of project 22350
The general director of the enterprise, Igor Orlov, also spoke about the continuation of the construction of a series of 14 ships.

ST. PETERSBURG, November 15. /TASS/. The shipbuilding enterprise Severnaya Verf (part of the United Shipbuilding Corporation), which is building a series of project 22350 and modernized project 22350 missile frigates, will lay an additional five frigates of this type. This was reported to TASS by the general director of Severnaya Verf, Igor Orlov.

"Of course, we continue to build a series of frigates. We have a large, long one. There are still five ships ahead. In addition to the fact that we are now completing construction," he said, answering a question about laying plans for the near future.

Orlov said that the enterprise laid down "a lot of its ships." "Now they are being actively built. If the previous two years have become a period of active laying, now the period of active delivery of ships is coming. Although this number - from one and a half to two dozen in different stages of construction - will remain," he noted.

The general director of Severnaya Verf also spoke about the continuation of the construction of a series of 14 ships. According to him, a new generation corvette "Daring" of project 20386 is currently being built. "We have a lot of work, it is very large-scale and serious," Orlov summed up.
Now at the shipyard in different stages of testing and construction are six frigates of project 22350 and a modernized project under the same number. Two frigates were previously transferred to the Russian Navy.

On Monday, November 14, the largest St. Petersburg shipbuilding company "Severnaya Verf" celebrated 110 years since its foundation.

https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/16323179