The Situation in the Ukraine. #32

ATLASCUB wrote:Folks really think that comedian is in command? Cmon now...

Considering this is simply a big upward grift from where he was as a comedian, and he's plenty richer for it..... just let the actor act his role. When Kolomoisky speaks to the press, call me. His puppet obviously has been doing vocally what Kolo said to the American press a few years ago.... "give me more money, and maybe I'll die for you cause Russia is offering us A LOT" A big grifting business. The thing is, Kolo is trying to extortion the house, and you just don't ever mess with house money.

Ofc he is in no control, this is why Russia is not even talking with him.

Also it's worth noting that Joe's rating is in the dump, that Democrats will get cornholed in upcoming midterms and that at this rate there's a decent chance that Orange Jesus will run again in presidential

So any distraction would be more than welcome

Hopefully no war happens and everyone on both
sides go home.

Or Ukraine could just not exist. We've suffered this provocation masquerading as a country for far too long. They should take Bondsteel and Taiwan Israel to the dustbin of history as well.

[quote="calripson"][quote="Vann7"]

bitcointrader70 wrote:

This guy must be a paid troll. He is delusional. Words don’t mean anything. They mean nothing at all. The German guy says nato is not on the agenda mean while Ukraine president wants a clear timeline of joining NATO.

This forum like to do 20d chess mental gymnastics. For years several guys on here have been saying that that Russia doesn’t have to do anything and the Kiev regime will fall apart on its own. And yet here we are.

Indeed...

Those saying that ukraine will just fall apart forgot that US is backing them , literary paying their bills and carry them on their shoulders. All those weapons and food and many other things ukraine receive from the west to keep the nation united in one piece , what is left of it , and prevent a new revolution ,all that comes from NATO help to them.  UKraine is one of NATO meat shields against Russia and they will not abandon it , that is so close to Russian territory and can be used to destabilize Russia. if things were reversed and Russia was in control of mexico and have constant military planes providing lethal weapons to mexico  ,you bet the west will demand mexico to disarm or face invasion , and will have been invaded long time ago.

The solution for Russia don't exist , with a MORON running the country ,as vladimir putin is.
Russia #1 problem have always been that their enemies have far away more influence over overwhelming majority of countries in the world ,than them.  So this lack of influence/leadership
of Russia , have been a very serious blow to the nation security , because this allow the anglo western order to create business alliances , military alliances and even political and cultural alliances
between them , with the goal ,to sabotage Russia future as a nation.

So repeat with me. is a leadership problem the reason Russia face war in ukraine , and had to fight in armenia, and had to fight in georgia and had to fight in syria and so and so and so. and the many more wars they will continue to face. Ukraine will have never distanced from Russia , if Russia had very influential business ,that ukraine love.. instead the revolution in 2014 will have been to join Russia and reverse the independence and not to move away from it. But the ukraines saw that russia was an outdated soviet era country  in comparison to the west and so preffered the west.

In the world we live , that is extremely politicized and divided by factions , the pro west versus the complainers that do nothing. In that kind of world , doing nothing , staying passive is not an option.
because the west have major goals of total capture of the entire world.. and pushing to isolate every nation not aligned with them.  So there is no choice for Russia than to fight back at those seeking to destroy it , because the war against russia did not began now .. it began decades ago during soviet union, but putin behaves as if he is not aware that the west have been at peace with russia and they actually seeking to destroy it , but in indirect ways , through sanctions or by destabilizing its borders as is happening in ukraine.  

to say that a strong leadership , not only can win wars.. but also can prevent them to happen , and disband alliances of enemies , is an understatement.  Putin's Russia will never convince the west to take russia seriously with politeness discourses..  only business power and success  ,is what will do the real talking and achieve results.. this is exactly what China is doing.. There is no better motivator
for societies around the world ,to want to follow you ,that your success in things every country will like to have.  

So solution to russia is remove that idiot from power , his people in a protest or his generals , and a true leader with major ambitions to replace that moron from the presidency. When a nation face major exodus of its population in the millions, this is a leadership problem , people abandoning the ship.  although this is also happening in the west too.. but the major difference is the west already have a system in place working , that the entire world follows..  a banking system ,a Technology system , a political system and what gave the west all this powers , was leadership , when you lead that everyone desires ,the rest of the world follows you.

Russia needs a leader with major ambitions ,other than a gas station of the west and a weapons exporter and start creating /promoting business that directly competes with the more important business of the west , that they use to influence all the world into their orbit. like for example a new internet , something like that will truly scare them.. if for example BRICS countries unite to create a new internet...  a good leader also can inspire a nation like india and china to work together instead of fighting each other..  I really think people underestimate how powerful a good leader can be.  take for example Fidel Castro,  he lead a revolution against americans  puppet government in Cuba , with just 20 people and light arms..    This is how big was the confidence of him.  Good leaders ,are people that create mass movements ,waves of society ,to do the impossible.. and from 20 people ,his followers grew in the millions..  the same happened to chaves in venezuela.. he lead a revolution with just a couple of hundred of soldiers.. to remove a puppet government in venezuela of the US.  The armed revoluton naturally failed , and he was arrested , but the popularity of him grew to the heavens ,when society knew about him , how amazing charismatic leader he was , and how passionate he was for improving society lives..  Chavez leadership and self confidence was so high ,that even convinced the president that ordered his arrest to release him.  this is why Russia will never take off , or be respected as long is ruled by polite, insecure ,leaderless president.  no important nation with a future ,will follow a country with an insecure president ,that need notes ,to talk to public . Specially when that country also follows the western business world , instead of creating an alternative , to become truly independent nation , and sanction proof..  because if a nation can produce all the things inside , they need for its development ,then will not even need to trade with any country outside , if they are fully self sufficient with their own industry.

Long spin that amounts to nothing.

Does not match the printout you get from the US state department so you don't understand someone might have a different view on anything so you dismiss it.

It is OK, you are not the only westerner ignoring or not understanding what is happening.

Putin is weak and stupid and one more round of sanctions is all it will take and Russia and Russians will perform like performing monkeys... like the EU does.

Putin and his cadre cared, they knew the stakes then with the nascent plans for the Union State, Eurasian Economic Union and CSTO, and so did the Americans and the EU who wanted to kill it on its birth bed. That's why there was a bidding rivalry. So your assertion that they don't care about Ukraine is a flat out lie.

They don't see countries as chess pieces they can control by making them their teams colours... Russia does not want the Ukraine to be a HATO piece, but equally does not care that they are not a Russian piece... they haven't been a Russian piece since 1991, an independent Ukraine is not a problem for Russia... a US controlled Ukraine with US missiles and forces is destabilising though.

Amusing the US is prepared to destroy the Ukraine to play this game... all their bullshit about caring about peoples rights and democracy...

Putin and cadre cared enough so as to outbid the EU bid, despite being less resourceful.

Oh please... Russia had more trade with the Ukraine than they had with the US and was a hell of a lot more than the 15 billion in investments they were offering that the Ukraine cut off when the US took control... they would have been better off taking no options at all and just keeping the Russian trade in play... they were making billions selling Russia most of the helicopter engines Russia uses and the propulsion systems for their new ships... and Ironically the US was benefiting because the Ukraine would have been paid in US dollars... all gone now.

He even made a deal to keep Yanukovich in power but got played like a fvck toy by the Americans who went in with the strong hand. Instead of responding, with ample cards, your boy Putin settled on crumbs by grabbing land in the East and licked his wounds. Simple as that.

The US used threats and money against the country of Ukraine to bribe it into committing suicide... congratulations... the devastation is impressive, you should be so proud... people whose crime was wanting to speak Russia being burned to death in buildings surrounded by armed mobs... what a hero you are for supporting such evil.

But to be fair those nutters took to it readily enough.... much like they did during WWII when the Nazis were looking for maniacs to kill jews... the Baltics and Ukraine was full of nutters happy to perform the most gruesome of crimes, I am sure HATO will benefit from such new members... it certainly does not make Russia any weaker.

Putin didn't grab anything... the Crimea volunteered to not be part of that new experiment and invited Russia to oversee their referendum to decide their future, and the separatist regions are still part of the Ukraine with no Russian troops present officially, but of course they might become independent if Kiev does something rash and stupid... not Putins choice either way.

That cocksucker was a solid strategist, the kind of which the USSR would have loved to have, instead of the Soviet(Russian) failures that drove an empire to the ground. An objective assessment, not an endorsement.

Yeah, well history has clearly shown him to be totally wrong... perhaps less time sucking western cock and more time actually looking at the real situation and he might have worked out the last 30 years to get Russia on side and fully integrated into the west would have added enormous resource wealth to the west and political power because Russia can talk to countries that simply wont listen to the west for good reason...

Instead Russia and China have been created as serious powers and pushed away and together realising that the west does not share power... the US does not share power and has drones rather than allies that all must work for the interests of the US... something neither Russia nor China are interested in.

Obviously. Those countries are NATO member states. Good luck touching that beehive by shelling them. Putin and his cadre knows Russia's current place in the power dynamics of this planet. Hec, they even underestimate it my opinion.

Those Baltic states also relied on Russia for port trade and electricity etc... If Russia really wanted to help Russian speakers in those places HATO would have turned the other way.

Ukraine is not a NATO member state, yet. Once they become a NATO member state, they're untouchable, unless the Russian leadership wants a World War. At the very least a break up with the West the magnitudes of which would make the crusades child play ... open season against all Russian client states (as few as they're).

Ahhh come on... look at the HATO mission in Afghanistan.... dragged kicking and screaming there but when the US decided to leave it was a shambles... HATO is a tool... a US tool... America does not care about the Baltic state or the Ukraine... look at the current situation in those places to see that...

The US could care less about war in Europe... but one that reaches their shores they will take notice and things will be very different.

Thus the pressing need, the caring to prevent it.

But the west has already said Russia has no say in HATO membership for other countries so there is no way for them to prevent it.

You're acting dumb here for the sake of being obtuse. Russia doesn't give two fucks if say, a Montenegro joins NATO... a few words of "support" sent to their Serbian "friends" in "protest pronouncements" but just that... fluff.

The red lines were HATO expansion... Montenegro is meaningless, but Ukraine or Finland or Sweden or Belarus are not.

Ukraine on the other hand, massive territory with a massive border with Russia, with majority of ethnic Russian population, in the tens of millions. It's not just about caring for any state joining NATO. You can continue with the BS, and spin it all you want, it's still bullshit.

Majority ethnic Russian what? The border with Finland is longer. Tens of millions hostile to Russia. Putin wouldn't piss on the country if it was on fire.

Lol what nonsense. It doesn't matter what your motivation is (even if I were to believe in any single word you type, which I don't). What matters is what you're peddling. You're peddling intellectually dishonest lies, knowing full well they're lies. And you're trying to spin your way out it like an amateur.

Well if they are lies they should be easy to debunk with a bit of fact checking...

You tried to paint me as a war monger with a passive aggressive ad-hominen on what you believed was a low hanging fruit opportunity to take a shot at me.

You support the destruction of the Ukraine by the US and less directly the EU... what else are you?

You are hoping for a war to start specifically to damage Russia and its relations with China and the rest of the world... as well as the Ukraine itself....

Again... Evil.

You believed, in your immense stupidity, that I wouldn't have a comeback for your simplistic garbage.

Yeah, lots of accusations of me being a liar, but not really much substance in your comebacks.

There is nothing noble out of "not exercising the ban hammer".

Nothing to do with being noble. It is about right and wrong, which you clearly don't understand.

But also the best way to prove someone to be as evil as you is to let you speak.

You talk about democracy and human rights and yet you talk about Putin having to invade and occupy Kiev otherwise he is a failure and has no future.

The obvious however is that the opposite is true for him to regime change a country he does not approve of that goes against his interests, to use money and power to install a puppet regime that cares nothing for the country or people but will do as they are told to serve Putins and Russias interests is so American.

Well not really... the US doesn't do things for America or Americans... it does it for the richest of the rich, so most Americans don't benefit and will end up paying the tab.

So you hate Russia and Russians and also America and Americans.

The amusing thing is that by ignoring Putins red lines Putin is simply saying he is not going to play your game any more.

You still don't understand.

It's indeed free speech. I'm honest about what I think about everyone here, the good, the bad etc.

It is glorious that you ignore with the side you support you would already be banned if this was Youtube or Twitter... your only refuge to hear the truth is amongst the heathen enemy... it is OK... just tell everyone you are not sure of your gender and even if you are a white male privileged bastard that should be sorry for everything, you become an oppressed minority able to live an almost normal life...

Not everyone is honest, specially those who think they can reach the moral high ground with lies, bullshit and propaganda.

You are not honest with yourself... if you are to be believed there is not good and evil... all sides are just ruthless and care nothing for anyone, it is just the haves keeping what they have from the have nots... the west is no more noble than the worst ISIS or Nazi group that ever existed... no friends, just interests, and an ideology to spread and maintain, yet you still think the US and the west are the good guys and by definition everyone else is the bad guys and therefore the game is to keep the good guys in power.

Ignoring the entire current setup is an evil pyramid scheme to make the rich richer and keep the rest working to make the richest richer.... and the west and US promotes that as good.

Russia and China want international law to apply to everyone, and for everyone to be given a chance to develop and grow to enjoy the technology and wealth potential of human ingenuity... the west just wants to hoard that all for itself and threatens we are bad but Russia or China in charge would be much worse.... ignoring that Russia and China don't want to replace the US at the top of the same structure... they want a fairer structure where everyone can sit up in the sun on good strong safe foundations.

So the idea of a conflict has settled in site-wide? No more hold outs?

Cowardly strikes against civilians have been ongoing the last 7 to 8 years... whether Kiev actually wants to risk all out war is still up for question.

Consequences... consequences.

Ukrainian Civil war in Ukraine is Ukraines problem unless Kiev goes full retard.... up to the clown.

NATzO has proven that it is not interested in
providing such welfare for its minions.

Shipping time expired weapons seems to be the extent of the HATO support.

I don't know if this has been mentioned already but the US is selling Poland Abrams tanks for possible Russian invasion.

What do you guys think of this?

The Russian Army is particularly well equipped to deal with enemy armour and enemy aircraft... this wont make any difference to things.

Spot on, these are the latest spec tanks, not the old Marine Corps used gear. They will take years to manufacture. Everyone knows they are unlikely ever to be used in actual combat, so no hurry, just keep the streams of commission running

Exactly... reading through the bullshit headline, this is all about funding the US MIC and nothing to do with helping Poland... unless you mean helping fleece Poland selling stuff they don't need but could be spending on more useful things.

Luhansk has established that "Ukrainian saboteurs" are already placed in 3 areas: ​​Stanitsa Luganskaya, Shchastya and Krymsky.

Guess who's also there: CNN and NBC crews.

So rebel counter spy units should pretend to be CNN and NBC and BBC reporters and find these guys and arrest them... and then arrest the reporters for collusion with the enemy.

Why doesn't Russia just take out Kiev and Lvov if Ukraine actually attacks. No armed invasion, but nuke these two most important (and anti-Russian) cities in Ukraine.

The use of nukes would be a massive overreaction... especially when they have a range of other options to take down specific targets in the Ukraine.

Yes, Russia will be sanctioned to the maximum, but who cares at this point?

Russia will get the blame no matter what happens and the sanctions that follow will further separate Russia from US controlled orgs and systems... which fits in with Moscows new direction away from the US led west to the rest of the world.

H I Sutton
@CovertShores
Situation very sobering. #Russia build up always looked like invasion. Or intended to look like invasion. Not drills.

All maritime #OSINT indications now point to impending action. Key auxiliaries propositioned. Patterns of activity, everything

Which is why I don't rate this guy as an analyst... ignoring Kiev forces moved up to the line in violation of agreements and just talking about Russian troops engaged in exercises in some cases quite a distance from the border with Ukraine... he has to feed the propaganda, which makes him a liar at best.

In what world is the Kiev regime going to just fall on its own? Maybe in Putin’s wildest dreams.

When an attempt to get these regions back by force results in a massacre of Orcs then Zelenskys political opponents might want to challenge his right to continue to lead the country... wouldn't be the first stupid pointless civil war against a rebellious region that started a full scale civil war.

They are propped up by American and British loans.

Didn't you hear... those people flew away on private planes... just the cannon fodder left...

The population is behind them. Most of the pro Russia people or the people with sanity left that shit hole along time ago

You don't need to be pro Russia to know you are being used and used up as a pawn by the west to damage Russia, and you certainly don't need to be pro Russia to want that to stop.

Russia’s best bet is to grab a couple more cities and gas/oil rich areas.

Russias best bet is to wait and when Kiev goes full retard to support these rebel groups in cleaning them up and then recognise their independence from Kiev and let them decide what they want Russia to do. If it is in Russian interests they can cooperate... but I doubt they would invade the rest of the Ukraine... long range strikes to eliminate threats and dangerous groups would likely be the extent of their intervention, though I hope they have vests and helmets and weapons to assist...

It’s already been painted in the minds of most Americans and Europeans by western media that all eastern Ukrainians are actually Russian soldiers.

Which also happened in Georgia and Crimea and would have happened in the Kurils if anything kicked off there...

That ship has sailed.

These guys would make a color revolution/civil war in Russia seem like a good thing.

So even Kool Aide drone number 3842934732 from the US thinks colour revolutions are bad for the countries they get inflicted upon... nice admission.

You ingest that garbage, and type in your "thoughts" here as if they were your own.

We select our sources of information from the entire range of options based on those that are more reliable... the fact that you define non US State Department sources as garbage is no surprise... that is USSD doctrine isn't it? Perhaps even part of their motto...

As for the response to the coup attempt that should have happened but never came...

That they took their pieces of silver and changed ships is not in dispute... their capacity to be cruel to the citizens that did not agree with their choice shows they are the evil criminal element of the population which always takes power easily because it is so ruthless and deadly to its opponents.... see Clinton Foundation...

The U.S can amass protests now, in 2022, just as they could in 2014,

Rent'a'mob... wow... no wonder they are considered a super power.... can create stampedes in the third world by throwing food on the ground... no wonder you support them huge bank balances for the already rich and powerful and crumbs for everyone else... you must be a billionaire, or a fucking idiot that works for one.

They moved their offices to Lvov. That’s office workers. Not military staff. They are sending tons of weapons. Tons of money. Providing intelligence to the Ukrainian forces. You are out of your mind with your delusions. Nato is not backing down one bit.

Backing down from what?

HATO has no obligation or interest to defend Ukraine... they have openly said as much.

And Russia doesn’t have the balls to pull the trigger and hit NATO hard military. Astronomically low chance of that happening. You can see that nato is hardly moving very many forces into Eastern Europe.

A few American bodies in Georgia would suggest otherwise I would think.

It is HATO forces that run away when Russia gets involved and not the other way around.

Now this could be a false flag by Russia themselves to create a pretext to invade... all fair play to me.

When has Russia ever used false flag situations to engage an enemy?

What False flag incident did they site to go into Crimea?

The Georgian shelling of VDV peacekeepers in 2008 was not a false flag situation, it was a genuine attack.

Syria?

False flag attacks are things the US uses to bypass international law and invade when it has no legal grounds to invade.

Either or, as recorded events, Russian territory is already getting penetrated. Should be shameful for the Kremlin leadership, to resort to this in case of a false flag or for allowing the provocation to take place if not.

Wow... so Putin is supposed to be on the border catching incoming shells and rockets with his bare hands is he?

These attacks have taken place and just like anywhere else on the planet it will be investigated and responses will be determined and implemented.

Same bla bla happened before 2008 war with analysts analyzing how georgia may win... stupidity at its highest level.

Cease fire violations and shellings and drones being shot down all took place before Tiblisi invaded and shelled peacekeepers and civilians and then got their asses handed to them.

Russia doesnt have to go into Ukraine ffs

That is what the west wants... just like it wants India to fight China and China to invade Siberia... honestly... how often does the west get what it wants?

Except if it wants turd sandwiches.

Seems to enjoy those.

[qutoe]Those rebels can hold as long as they want no one cares, neither russia care about them. It's been almost 10 years that Russia could have solved that issue quickly, as quickly as in Crimea. But they didn't. [/quote]

No Russia can't... they solved the Crimea because the Crimea is Russian and populated with Russian speaking Russians.

These rebel regions are populated with Russian speaking Ukrainians, who see themselves as Ukrainians that happen to speak Russian.

The government in Kiev doesn't have to be pro Russian for them to be happy, they just need to drop this anti Russian language shit and stop shelling these regions and allow them to openly trade with Russia which is what they have been doing for a very long time.

Ukrainian membership into NATO is going to happen, there is no way to prevent that but war at this stage. The "experts" here who have never once in their life dealt with matters like this might say otherwise but that's fools being fools.

If you want to prevent NATO from entering Ukraine, it's come to force. Diplomacy has failed.

Amusing you are so certain... if only members of HATO were so certain because if they were then Ukraine would already be in... why is that by the way?

I mean if it is so certain and everyone in HATO wants it... surely it is just sign a few papers and it is done... such certainty would also be an extra show of strength to Putin and Russia, because that is what it is all about.

Except there are likely several members of HATO that don't want those idiots to be in HATO and realise their membership makes WWIII rather more likely instead of less likely... which kinda runs counter to the whole point of HATO in the first place.

Besides, when Trump gets reelected he will just kick them out...

Let's Say Ukraine joins NATO and the neo-nazis in Ukraine attack Crimea, do you think that NATO is going to fight Russia on behalf of Ukraine?

They will of course claim it was the Crimea that attacked them, but either way Russia will defend itself...

If Ukraine joins NATO, than NATO will be naked and it will be a paper tiger.

It will destroy HATO... start WWIII to defend idiots in Kiev... most would say no to that...

Might be good for HATO to finally say no to the US... a real turning point that leads the EU to start wearing grown up pants and not be led around by the nose by the US... but perhaps that is expecting too much from those pussies.

Welcome to the reality in this forum , is full of fanboys apologist and people detached from reality starting for their moderators , of one of the most incompetent and out of touch with reality head of state in the history of the planet ,aka. vladimir putin.

And you are unable to leave...

The question nobody ask , is , why the west is so successful in destabilizing /influencing nearly all borders of Russia away from Russia orbit? Why the west is so dam successful always to create revolutions there to remove any pro Russian leadership from power?

The real question is how was the west getting its enemies to divide and fight each other in meaningless conflicts instead of focussing on their real enemy... the west... how was it going to continue with the existence of the internet which they can't control all the information on...

How much longer is the west going to last in the face of everyone knowing the truth outside the truth the west controls via CNN and BBC and Fox News...

The beginning of the end... the west is eating itself... and all Russia and China had to do was let it.

Putin's is the greatest gift to the west. Because he runs Russia and do absolutely nothing to challenge the west.

Because he recognises how self destructive the west is... when there is no big feast for it... like Asia or Africa or Central or South America or Russia... it starts to eat itself.

Without the Ukrainan coup Russia should be different than today, and the whole challange of the "USA order" and the China - Russia alliance would be out of question.

Indeed, without the US using Kiev as a wedge between the EU and Russia, I rather doubt the Russians or Chinese would commit to cooperate, but western actions make it pretty clear that rivals are not tolerated and if China and Russia want to retain their independence and decision making to benefit themselves outside of US interests then they could never be a part of the west, more so because they would enter the heirarchy below the EU and US so every white rich country would be dictating and lecturing them on how they are too white or not western enough.

Screw that.

Yet another western blunder.

China is the only true threat on the economic scale and the Chinese leadership recognizes this fact - that is why you see the crackdown on Chinese oligarchs like Jack Ma by China and the attempt to limit Huawei on "national security" grounds by the Americans. The critical difference is China has a population of 1.4 billion and an economy in real terms larger than the US.

But that also ignores the fact that Russia is a wild card because together with China they have everything the west could possibly offer... that is why the US is so scared of Chinas trade route from Asia to the EU, because with Russia on board WTF does the EU need the US for? They don't need it to tell them what to do, they just let them. With Russia filling in anything they might get from the US like titanium bits for rockets and jet engines and other material items, why would the EU even look to the US?

Which is the whole purpose of HATO to keep Russia and the EU apart.... what they don't realise is that China and Russia and the rest of the world don't need the west either.

Might not grow and accelerate as they would with good open cooperation with the west, but free and open cooperation with the west is not possible so slower growth and development along with growth and development of the rest of the world and it becomes more problematic for the west who treats the rest of the world as their resource mine.

ou either endure and persevere and defeat your rivals or you lose.

Like the UK and France?

Putin tried cooperation and trade, but was rejected by a west that does not want to grow up and behave like rational adults... it is just lord of the flies...

Russia clearly didn't expect after Syria that their rivals would simply brush it off and move on by going hard on Ukraine. This is real chess, not the shit you read on your favorite propaganda "analysis site" where the grift is daily garbage.

Whether they knew years in advance or reacted as things happened... all that is is an indication of the aggressor, which in this case is clear.... all this aggression and violence from the west is painting it into a corner alone... who wants to play with the controlling psycho?

Nobody gives a shit if Russia, when forced, found somehow the fortitude to be self reliant on certain industries. That is feel good propaganda to feel good about the fact that you were fucked over in Ukraine and pushed East. Good for you, now what?

It is clear the west cares for nothing and no one and should be avoided at all costs... the west is Hitler with better PR and spin doctors...

They won't solve that issues for 100 years if you ask me. And gas is already expensive when it comes from Russia through immobile pipelines. Now imagine the cost of US shale gas that was extracted with chemicals and transported on huge tankers consuming as much oil as they transport.

The high cost of gas in Europe is self inflicted... it would be like a Vodka tax to make it expensive because it is also Russian... which would be catastrophic if the EU was Russias only market... but they aren't.

The EU has benefited all these years with cheap Russian gas helping their economy and making them stronger... and I am getting a real feeling of dejavu typing this because I remember typing something similar the last time an attack was imminent.

By sabotaging cheap energy from Russia the EU is only damaging itself and making a few Americans who are already rich a little richer selling expensive gas to Europe.... sounds like Team America mission accomplished, but for Russia it just means the little they do sell to the EU will be at a much higher price and therefore larger profit margin, and any excess gas they have they can start to liquefy and sell to Asia or other markets where demand is probably lower because gas is so damn expensive... but guess what... when Russia starts selling gas and puts in more pipelines energy is going to get really cheap and so it will expand its use in the market to replace what the EU consumed so what happens then???

US gas sold on the market suddenly stops being competitive so all the extra gas they sold to the EU just compensates them for their loss of the Asian market which is growing faster than the EU market will be growing.

In 50 years most of the world will be anti combustion fuel types so they can just burn it locally for heating...

I do agree with this analysis atlas however I think they really woke the sleeping giant in 2014 with the coup in Ukraine. Before 2014 Russia was basically an oligarchy/mafia state with the Russian elite stealing as much as they can than running off to London and Miami for a nice vacation. Now Russia’s survival is at stake and it seems to me that Russia’s elite is now taking the situation seriously. I imagine US/NATO would probably prefer dealing with corrupt greedy criminals than people who finally have their head out of their ass. Russia is trying to put up a fight now. Before 2014 only one side was fighting.

Translation... the mafia oligarchy left when Putin arrived in the early 2000s, it was their departure that led to the recovery of the country and their military, which got a kickstart in 2008 when it was clear the west was never going to accept Russia as anything other than its bitch... but it took until 2014 to make it clear that the west is a united front driven by the US that has no interest in Russia except as a resource... Russia will always be the bad guy.

Now Russia will be a rival, not an enemy, they are not interested in that, though they will defend themselves, but they wont cater to western worries any more and their focus will be cooperation and development with the rest of the world... which will be very good for Russia and the rest of the world.

You don't win brownie points for standing up for yourself, it's the bare minimum.

It is not about brownie points, the west thinks it is essential to the future of every other country on the planet... they are soon to find they are wrong.

Obviously the dimwits that consume that propaganda daily, whether they realize it or not are apprehensive of any view contrary to that make-believe propaganda (propaganda of which comes in different shape and sizes, suitable for each type of brain, provided the dimwit is welcoming to it).

Hahaha... yes that kremlin propaganda is everywhere... you can't escape it in the west... it is because of all their money and power and influence...

It is so powerful you don't notice the other propaganda...

Subtle and insidious... and all consuming...

I mean we've been saying that since day 1....where the hell have you been?.

From day one the threat from the west to supposedly prevent a Russian invasion was sanctions and HATO advisors running away and not getting involved.... now you say a Russian invasion was going to be what any conflict was going to be called... wow... you mean like in Belarus and Georgia and the Crimea... we are shocked and find that hard to believe... not.

Folks really think that comedian is in command? Cmon now...

You are going to have to clarify... do you mean Johnson, Biden, Micron, Morrison, Adern, Scholts, Saakashvili, or Zelensky... or all of them?

I would say all of them is closest to the truth.

U.S. sanctions Ihor Kolomoisky, one of Ukraine’s most powerful tycoons

Eating its own creations... funny.

Did he not switch sides when the US changed policy or has he got some goods on Bidens kid and this is how they discredit it?

Sounds familiar to what you're hearing now... well it's. The Americans obviously have other assets in line should the need arise. They're expendable, and a nuisance. There is a reason why the money being handed out by the EU/U.S is peanuts.

See that is the problem... you believe any idiot... if he said Saddam has WMDs that are 45 minutes preparation from front line use would you believe him too?

He might think Russia wants to piss money all over the Ukraine to be neutral again, but is that actually true or is this the ramblings of a guy who was expecting to get a hell of a lot more money from the US for his treason and is trying to get them to open their purse strings and pay him more to keep him on their side.

A mercenary wanting a pay increase is amusing but not really very important to the situation.

There would need to be a lot of trials and a few executions before things are OK for Russia here even if they were interested and they likely would not because the gap they filled has been filled by Russian companies doing a better job.

Going back to what was in 2013 is not possible or desirable.

Ofc he is in no control, this is why Russia is not even talking with him.

He wants to talk to Putin to further his narative that these regions are Russian military and a Russian invasion of the Ukraine that he wants to fight off to save the EU and earn HATO membership and massive investment and recovery... hero of border town...

Putin does not want to talk to him because he has not say over these Ukrainian people in parts of the Ukraine... in fact he said as much when he said he was the president of Russia not the Ukraine.

Talking to Putin would feed his propaganda but not actually solve the problems he has with these breakaway regions.

Which is why Putin is not interested.

Hopefully no war happens and everyone on both
sides go home.

Is going to require the clown to bite the bullet and talk to the seperatist regions, but that might get him killed by the nazis in his country... but who cares about him... he is so western he wont talk to his own people to keep his country in one piece... what a dick.

Those saying that ukraine will just fall apart forgot that US is backing them , literary paying their bills and carry them on their shoulders.

It is giving them loans... they are turning their own children into slaves of the west... everything will be western owned... the farms and fields and houses and companies... white slavery.

GarryB wrote:Is going to require the clown to bite the bullet and talk to the seperatist regions, but that might get him killed by the nazis in his country... but who cares about him... he is so western he wont talk to his own people to keep his country in one piece... what a dick.

I doubt that he is allowed to talk with Separatist regions or his own people. I also doubt that he is facing the threat to be killed by nazis as even before his entrance into politics, nazis were defanged so they wouldn't threaten the current gov. He might use it as an excuse, but it's his handlers that have him by the balls.

Now Zelensky is even less western than me. This bastard started censoring the media, started jailing his opponents, and so on. As much as I hate Poroshenko, but at least there would be hope for some negotiations. Now there's none.

GarryB wrote:

Long spin that amounts to nothing.

Does not match the printout you get from the US state department so you don't understand someone might have a different view on anything so you dismiss it.

It is OK, you are not the only westerner ignoring or not understanding what is happening.

Delusional and completely off balance. Your biggest mistake, in your attempts to mischaracterize me to fit a strawman that you can easily attack is trying to shoehorn me as a PRO-NATO shill and on their "side". You can't form any line of attack that doesn't revolve around that western boogeyman, including your missteps by openly discriminating against westerners with inflammatory and phobic language. A slip of tongue, feet and ass if you will...

If only you knew my nationality... what a fucking fool.

You're in shambles and it didn't take much. I ignored your nonsense and modus operandi cause you're a waste of time... realized that the first couple of times I analyzed your posting patterns and schtick - long ago. A simple partisan, propaganda hack. But since you couldn't help yourself in doing what you do.. well.... You get what you ask for. A good thrashing.

The fact is simple, you lied and lie all over place and are intellectually dishonest in your argumentations... picking low hanging fruits and targets that stray of the narrative opportunistically (specially if their intellectual capacity or subject knowledge is lower). You can't run away from that, no matter the size of the walls of text you type with nonsense. Kinda funny to see you flustered about losing your grip aka control. Jesus what a mess. 32k post investment.

The CIA is sending me that check as we speak. Trust.

Biggest con being that you proclaim to be a westerner but talk of your fellow kin as the evil incarnate. But we however know better, "GarryB".... the sheep of this forum obviously don't, and that's why you're here, to shepherd them on the "right" path, with moderation privilege's to boot.

thegopnik wrote:I want Ukraine to get their shit pushed in, I have no respect for that country. ironically this thread seems as lively as the one here for those interested.https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/t/ukrainian-conflict-developments.8899/page-133

Neither sinodefence nor russiadefence has anything on the Pajeets over at defenceforumindia.com

Quality is a whole different beast though.

https://defenceforumindia.com/threads/civil-war-in-ukraine.61895/page-1244#post-2156147

So they aim to move 700,000 people out of their homes to Russia ? I remember a lot of western nations , offering refugee / residence status to the Palestinians . And this was not because of any humanitarian feelings . It was to facilitate their defeat . Secure a home for the Zionazis . Even if the Rebels hold the line , then is this peace ? Will the Russian hearts survive such humiliation ? Without reacting ? Some say , it is only about NATO in Eastern Europe .

And they conducted exercises by flying some Nuke capable hyper - sonic , Gold - plated missiles in the Med sea ! Did it scare anyone ? I saw the pictures on TV , for five seconds ! Did the western housewives have nightmares about wwIII , as they used to , in the old days ? Did we see a mushroom cloud on TV ? Was it near the American coast ? If Russians are serious about their core national survival , by NATO expansion , then their ( NATO nations ) survival should come under question . Not enough fear exerted ! To shut the mouth of Stoltenberg , with trembling fear !

This whole evacuation is a pure PR stunt.
You cant relocate hundreds of thousands of refugees without a major social catastrophe there.
Besides, if they will take the people out, isn't is exactly what the Ukrs want ?
Propaganda is not one side tool only. Both are using it.

For the slow thinkers in the forums ,

The objectives of the west is a political and economic victory over Russia and NOT
a military one.

The west is not stupid , only putin is.. if people think the west is stupid ,with what they doing
in ukraine is because don't understand their real goals.. is an attrition proxy war .
NATO wants to fight Russia to the last ukrainian blood ,but also islamic mercenaries in europe and middle east that they can easily get very cheap. is an economic war , e c o n o m i c    w a r.  
NATO don't expeect Ukraine to beat Russia any day. but they know the war will not end ever until
Russia fully capture all of it ,invading with tanks kiev .  The west hope to provoke Russia into invading all the way to kiev and beyond , while them arming the ukrainians and mercenaries they hired to fight. The economic cost for Russia to have a full scale army , as soviet union had in afghanistan will sink the russian budget and slow down all future development of russia for many years and directly affect putin popularity too , because will worsen the quality of life too , with the collapse of the ruble.. and this is not mentioning the energy sanctions from europe too.

The fool here is putin , not the west..   Because NATO can literary keep fueling this conflict
f o r e v e r , until they exhaust Russia economy on its knees.. and this is not counting those road side bombs , that nato will give ukrainians ,and kamikazi drones ,that will become a nightmare for russian army to keep away. Merkel is no longer there , to come to save Putin's ass , and macron is no longer going to put his hands on fire for putin.  So it could be a major pain in the ass for Russia to deal with ukraine , if they continue targeting Russia territory and even use chemical or biological weapons , that NATO will give to ukraine to use it on russia.. so forget about ukraine.. Russia will be fighting sooner or later undercover NATO private contractors ,posing as "ukrainians" on ukraine territory with nato advanced weapons. And we know how humiliating was left the russian army in the armenia war.. how those tor and pantsirs defenses were destroyed with russian soldiers inside. or the hellicopter with russian soldiers shot down..  expect Russia to be humiliated big time , NATO will not start a new conflict there , unless they are sure they can cause a lot of pain and troubles to russia.
and defeating the russian army is not the goal , only causing pain and forcing russia to waste a fortune with a big army there ,that sooner or later they will be forced to invade , if attacks on russian cities across borders don't end. and europe will do nothing to pressure ukraine.


so how fucked is putin in ukraine?
if the west does ,what they hinting they will do..  as if is russia and "not them" that will do it.

1) They are saying russia will use chemical weapons .  translation , means ukraine will use them ,supplied by US and UK and then later russia blamed for it.
2) they could potentially use biolgocal weapons , just like covid19 on russia main land and major illness to start across russian cities ,near ukraine border.
3) thousands of advanced kamikazi drones attacking russian army. or russian equipment. far more than what russia had to deal in armenia or syria combined. causing many casualties on russia military.
4) last not least.. if they manage to pressure russia to invade . they will give putin a big middle finger in his ass. that is those pretty nuclear reactors ,will be blown away..and russia will need to evacuate those civilians and spend a fortune , in ukraine to restore it.. so good luck to the chessmater idiot putin..  The west knows they can sink russia , by playing their cards right with ukraine.  but if they were really smart , they will not remove that retard president. because removing that imbecile will mean removing the core of the problems that russia have.. that is run by an idiot , that do not understand how to defend his country properly ,even less how to influence the world away of the angloeuropean system.

will not be surprised if NATO completely bomb all lugansk and donetks , with chemical weapons and bio weapons , something i doubt russia is prepared to fight there. and later after those zones destroyed ,they switch to crimea and repeat again.. indeed evil , but none less brilliant in terms of the troubles this will create for russia, because they have putin grab by the balls and that moron have no way to avoid the proxy war ,the west will start on russia . the only hopes that russia have to avoid such humiliating economic war , is if europe pressure US and ukraine to stop that war.. and negotiate and bribe them to stop . because russia so far have zero influence in ukraine. This is why putin is so lame president ,he don't control the future of russia.. the european union does it.. and he knows that if europe joins US on this plans they want . he will be doomed, had no way to come victorious in ukraine in a way that is acceptable for them. and if putin understand that the war with ukraine will not end until kiev puppet regime removed by force by them.. and invades.. then that will give the west exactly what they wanted.. russia will need to feed those 40 millions of residents that hates russia , and probably cover those nuclear reactors , that nato will blow up. wondering in which direction the winds in ukraine flows? that invasion to ukraine could end being very expensive , but if not invade too.. so the master chess putin have been checkmated. he is fucked either way .
But will not be that bad , if putin removed for incompetence by his generals .

nomadski wrote:So they aim to move 700,000 people out of their homes to Russia ? I remember a lot of western nations , offering refugee / residence status to the Palestinians . And this was not because of any humanitarian feelings . It was to facilitate their  defeat . Secure a home for the Zionazis . Even if the Rebels hold the line , then is this peace ? Will the Russian hearts survive such humiliation ? Without reacting ? Some say , it is only about NATO in Eastern Europe .

They are just temporarily removing civilians from harm's way, but the military remains. It is the right thing to do

Disagree . A population to live in peace and happiness , needs many things . The most obvious is security and a home . Followed by freedoms and rights . The right thing for any population is not be made into refugees in the first place . The Russians are perfectly able to drive back  ukronazis now ! With the population intact . Let the ukronazis be the refugees , get NATO passport and go to Brussels to live as refugee . Stalingrad was not emptied of it's population ......




https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Aupnv5n19K4

Evacuation mentality ! Let's evacuate the women and children , they could get damaged & I don't need them ! Let's evacuate the buildings , they could get damaged & I don't need them ! Let's evacuate the factories , Cows and sheep ! But oh , I need them ! Darn it , they are in Russia , might as well go to Russia , as I need them !

ATLASCUB wrote:

Nobody gives a shit if Russia, when forced, found somehow the fortitude to be self reliant on certain industries. That is feel good propaganda to feel good about the fact that you were fucked over in Ukraine and pushed East. Good for you, now what?

You don't get it.

Let go thorught the changes that 2014 caused in the Russian Federation, and in the citizens of her.

Floating nuclear power plant :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_floating_nuclear_power_station
Took 12 years to make something ,that is a primitive barge with two standard RITM-200 installed, without distruption of supplies from Ukraine.
There was lot of corruption, transfer of project between shipyards, overrun of the budget several time due to corruption and so on.

Now, compare this to the Project 22220 Arktika nucelar icebreaker, that took 7 years to make from knee laying, including a good 3 years of pause in construction due to the change of integrated propulsion plant from GE to Russian supplier, and the turbonenerator from Ukrainan supplier to a Russian one.

All public pojekt in Russia after 2014 speeded up.

The change qualitative and quantitative, due to the common enemmy the efficiency of the whole country dramatically increased.


Kazan submraine example, the comissioning of it marking the rebuild of the complete submarine manufacturing chain from the collapsed rubbles of the Soviet Union .
I never imagined before 2014 that they manage to comission the Kazan, but see, now its in comission.

But the BAM, Trans Siberian Railway showing the dramatic increase in the efficiency of the spending of public money.


All of this happened due to the 2014 coup.

USA made sure to distribute the knowledge to all Russian if they don't put together themselves then they will be dead or living in a collapsed country, in 1990 style conditions.
Now, they fight against , by working longer hours,and seeking ways to improve the goverment/country.

If I was Ukraine I wouldn't push my luck.

Viktor Vodolatsky First Deputy Chairman of the Duma Committee on CIS Affairs  says a large scale Ukrainian offensive is expected on the 21st of February

https://mobile.twitter.com/RealPepeEscobar/status/1495324829729398784