Russian special military operation in Ukraine

Putin has declared it time to start a mission to remove nazism and demilitarize Ukraine, this means full annexation of Ukraine.

The war has begun.

flamming_python wrote:

SeigSoloyvov wrote:Putin has declared it time to start a mission to remove nazism and demilitarize Ukraine, this means full annexation of Ukraine.

The war has begun.

Annexation would fill Russia with a zombified population

I doubt any annexation is being considered.

I don't know what the plan is. But whatever it is, it's dumb.

You can doubt all you want, the writing is on the wall.

Sure. The recognition of the DNR/LNR and introduction of Russian troops there can be a way to solve it. Not what I would prefer, but it's one solution.

Well as I see it there were three plays Putin could have made... this play was one, an invasion of the Ukraine that took Kiev was number two and doing nothing and continuing to wait while Kiev artillery picked off these civilians one or two at a time... was the third option.

Option two is not an option, because there is no legal right for Russia to send troops into Ukrainian territory which would of course include these independent states if Russia had not recognised them yet.

Putin has no justification to invade or attack Kiev forces unless they are attacking Russian forces, or the forces of Russian allies.

Edit: Seems Ukrainian forces attacking these new independent regions and not withdrawing from their territory is enough for Russia to decide an attack is worth it and legal...

The recognition gives these two new regions the status of Russian allies and neighbouring states so any attack by Kiev forces can result in compliants or eventually direct action to stop it from happening... I am sure they will issue warnings before they start directly monitoring these guys in real time and shelling them just as they fire their weapons... illegally located on the border zone which is supposed to be demilitarised BTW.

Actually trying to expand their borders will bring the situation to open war, and it's unclear at which line it will finish.

Returning their seized territory follows international law... if they resist then it could become an open war, but if Zelensky wants anything but a forever war he cannot win then he will likely agree to withdraw his forces in line with the Minsk agreements by the way, in the hopes of some consessions that these regions might or might not be happy about.

Moreover it would entail occupation over a zombified population, most of whom whatever their beliefs are innocent.

Yeah.... not everyone was happy with Albanian rule in Kosovo either... they can vote with their feet.

If they have Russian citizenship, which would be even easier to get now most of them would probably get pensions and an damn sight more money than they were getting from Kiev.

The essence of the matter is that if you go the civilized way and the other party takes you for an idiot, the next step is to stop being civilized.

You can remain civilised without rewarding barbarianism and evil... for instance a move has been made that does not require any invasions at all, which is not to say there wont be conflict, but if there is it wont be because Putin forced the issue, it will be a choice of the Orcs.

Good idea I must say, at least they are still good at fighting wars with somebody else's idiots...

They are so used to being bastards you can't invite them for dinner to meet your parents... they eat with their fingers with their feet on the table like animals.

Of course Russia tries to be correct and reasonable, but in international relationships there are often lots of grey areas, when legitimate interests of two countries clash in the absence of a higher instance that can settle disputes in a fair way and enforce international decisions. Russia could have used other ways back then or now and still have plausible legal cover, that is where the national interest calculations take the leading role and where Russia is showing a strategic planing ability that the West has lost.

What you are saying is that the Russians could have gotten all sorts of lawyers on the case and worked out how to walk along the border of the law without officially crossing it to get their way... which is essentially what the west does.

The UN creates new rules on invasions and aggression so the west creates the concept of Humanitarian intervention... they were not attacked by Serbia, but they say people within the state of Serbia are suffering and need us to bomb the shit out of the rest of the country till it can be broken into pieces...

Subsequent humanitarian invasions from the west and her allies have helped Iraqis and Yemenies and Afghans all taste sweet sweet democracy and 21st Century living... they can see it on the few TVs left after the bombings and invasions and murders they committed for every reason except anything to do with helping the people.

Evil.

Means, Russia taking the initiative in LDNR now is just one of the "measures" they announced when they requested the West to start accommodating to the new balance of power. The West can make way or can be dragged, their choice.

The west recognises new states when it suits and if Russia can't stop the Ukraine from joining HATO then HATO can't stop these two new republics from joining all sorts of military and political and economic groupings with Russia and China... I am sure the Donbass Miners are keen to get a direct open rail link to China... they are wanting coal at the moment...

The current borders are not workable in the long run because they leave critical LDNR areas exposed to attacks. I guess the war depends on how fast the ukies understand that it is game over for them now, once Russia recognised the republics and has the legal instruments in place to act decisively

If Kiev wants to be the thorn and continue to be a problem then that problem can be dealt with... thorns can be removed and thorn bushes can be burned to ash to make their thorns useless... I am sure the new Putin is ready to solve such problems in a way Kiev are not going to like at all.

If they cooperate, there is no need for LDNR to recover territories, but if they keep trying to suppress dissent by military means they can lose land all the way to Lvov, at the end of the day it is their decision and sadly there are too many maniacs involved to host hopes of a peaceful resolution.

The rest of the people of the Ukraine are free to do what these two regions have done if that is what they want to do... especially when the economic situation in these two regions starts to recover which of course it will with proper trade with its neighbour... these border regions have probably traded normally with Russian regions for the last century and on the quiet in the last half decade... well now it can be open and transparent, they don't need to hide anything any more.

Diplomacy has ended in this conflict. War can start tonight.  

Diplomacy was Kiev not doing anything and Russia getting the blame for it... **** that diplomacy.... it was a corruption of the meaning of the word.

Why would Russia have 200,000 troops and a large portion of their navy in the Black Sea if there won’t be an invasion?

Because there are an estimated 125 thousand Orcs inside the legal territory of these two states where it is supposed to be demilitarised with no artillery or heavy weapons... which suggest an imminent invasion... they can't stop an invasion on that scale with what they normally keep by the border.

He didn’t need 200,000 soldiers to recognize 2 failed proxy states that Russia is already propping up.

Those two stated existed with trade with Russia, their immediate neighbour, another reason for them to cut from Kiev which wanted to close that border to their primary customers.

He tried to bluff and bully the west with the build up but they masterfully called his bluff.

The western media ignored the build up of Orcs and just treated the Russian movements as if they happened in a vacuum for no clear reason... when you ignore the position of the Orcs then it does look suspicious... but add in the Orcs and it becomes basic common sense to have your forces ready.

Now NS2 is gone and Russia sanctioned and gained zero.

Let Germany pay full price and transit fees for their gas... there is no other supplier that can meet their current needs let alone their future growing needs for cheap energy.

Russia can now deal with the constant shelling violating the Minsk agreement... these regions just need to ask Russia to send in troops to help them deal with it.

Recognizing a puppet state you already control is not a victory.

You are confusing them with the US and Kiev, but their puppet seems a little less happy with his masters.

They only needed about 2k Russian peacekeepers to move in and stop the violence.

Pay attention... all the videos of Russian troops moving are still within Russian territory... they have not entered those states yet.

They understand the problem and know what forces they need to move to get the results they want.

Any attacks by Ukraine would be smashed by drones, airforce, and artillery fire from across the border.

Not officially being a war yet they might treat it as a criminal situation... which means moving to the launch areas to look for evidence and arresting any armed groups found there perhaps...

Now Putin has no choice to invade or he looks like a weak fool.

He will now be invited in... he is not interested in the rest of the Ukraine... these regions can be independent... Russia does not need to occupy or own them... just a few defence agreements... the rest of the Ukraine can continue to suffer under european democracy and peace and IMF loans they can never pay back...

Meanwhile during this whole charade NATO has been sending more and more weapons but oh no it’s not weapons that will help Ukraine win the war. It’s weapons that would make Russians remember the first and second Chechen wars.

If they want to play that game Russia can play too... and the second Chechen conflict was worth remembering because they got a solution that the locals were largely happy with.

There is way to spin this by Garry b and archangesk claiming Russia doesn’t care about Kiev or Ukraine when Putin is giving speeches about Ukrainian history on the internet.

Their history does not change the facts on the ground. The rest of the Ukraine is run by Orcs and is not interested in peaceful relations with Russia.... they are already an independent nation so invading them to regime change them would just eventually lead to a return of what they have now because presumably the 1% who are keeping this going want it to keep going and clearly don't care about the Ukrainian people at all.

Crimea was suffering under Kiev and it has developed and grown as part of Russia... they are not idiots and could see where Kiev was headed.... the people of these new republics also saw the same thing and saw people getting burned to death because they were seen by the Orcs as being too pro Russia... so they chose a long festering conflict with sporadic shelling from the Orcs.

Putin wanted peace to prevail...  he wanted Kiev to talk to these regions and sort something out they could both agree on, and under two different leaders Kiev has refused and has openly refused... there are only three parties to the Minsk agreement that need to do anything... Kiev needed to open dialogue with the two republics and they wont. They had to withdraw their heavy weapons from the front line but they are currently sitting inside enemy territory and not moving... and sporadically shelling and killing people and generally being a nuisance.

Putin could wait, but they couldn't, so when the Ukraine moved their forces to the front line and started talking about wanting nukes, Putins had was essentially forced... the shelling can't continue.... just like it couldn't be allowed to continue in South Ossetia.

Man this is bad for Russia indeed.

The man is perfectly reasonable, and avoids bloodshed unless it is the last resort and the people in these regions think he is a hero for acting now to save them.... ukrainians from Kiev.

They wont get an opportunity to join the Russian Federation any time soon, but that does not matter, they can sign agreements of mutual defence in case either are attacked which will give them better protection than Ukraine is currently getting from the west.

The only mistake the west made is that they haven’t given Putin an off ramp.

The west has never given Putin or Russia any alternative other that be our maid and butler and gardener and driver... and make sure our boots are clean and our suits laundered...

Russians are not people... they are staff... and if you think they think otherwise ask them where the uproar is for the Ukrainians burned alive because they were not anti Russia enough.

That guy Crapper... in the CIA I think... said Russians are genetically predisposed to be bad... if he said that about any ethnic group he would have lost his job immediately... but Russians are the new niggers.... you can beat them and kill them and no one will object.

They didn't care about Ukraine for years. What changed is the US trying to bring them into Nato.

Not to mention talk of nukes probably didn't help much, but equally Putin is human... unlike most western leaders... so when he hears about Orc artillery destroying houses in these regions I am sure he wants to do something about it... now he is.

The only thing that an invasion can make is make Russia bigger. Ukraine can't resist and no one will move to save them. They just gave away Ukraine.

Putin does not want the Ukraine.... these bits of the Ukraine wont join the Russian Federation any time soon... more likely they will remain independent countries that Russia has good open friendly relations with. How much these regions expand has everything to do with the will of the Ukrainian people in other parts... they can hold referendums if they want and let the people decide for themselves... Russia wont invade... they can only be invited in... and unlike the west they can be asked to leave too.

Russia will have a population of 200 million people and get the biggest country in europe as a bonus, more fertil lands, an industry that complete their industry as in the USSR.

Most of it needs a lot of work and money to fix up and repair to restore it to a function entity.

USA totally failed their coup.

They broke the country and did serious damage so I rather suspect as far as they are concerned mission accomplished... remember they don't like any foreigners and Ukrainians are just Russians that seem to get angry faster and are easier to goad into doing stupid things... like Georgians.

So no hot wars and no cold war which means fall of the USA.

As long as the EU do as they are told and the US can bully the west... ie canada and japan and south korea and australia etc etc the US wont fall... they will just bleed their allies... like making the EU buy their expensive gas... and Australia buy their expensive SSNs and probably a few old surface ships to go with it...

You gotta buy the whole set to be in the gang...

Saying they didn’t care about it Ukraine for years is a straight up lie. They provided tons of cheap gas, ridiculously favorable loans, debt forgiveness, etc…. To keep them in Russia’s orbit.

They were still bastards and treated Russia like shit... it was like battered wife syndrome except reversed where the husband is getting beaten but still works hard and provides everything the wife wants but she is never satisfied... but she found a new sugar daddy... one that is super rich... he prints his own money for goodness sake... but he is not providing the way the husband used to... Russia should be relieved the wife divorced him... don't take that bitch back... she hasn't changed.

And all it took was a few nato backed skinheads backed by a few years of propaganda to counteract all of what Russia was trying to do. Moscow got fucking evicted from Kiev. The hard way and tumbled down the stairs.

Yep, it was painful, but Putin is not going back up those stairs again... he has learned his lesson.

Kiev can be a neighbour... a neutral neighbour, but nothing more.

All Putins Russia wanted was friendly non hostile neighbours.... Russia had no wish to control them... till the west started their games... and even then they haven't regime changed and put in their own puppets like the west would... Luka remains in Belarus, even if he might not last much longer... but that is not up to Russia or Putin, it is up to the ballot box next election.

And there isn’t 40 million people left in that shit hole. The American backed puppet state ran most of the normal people out. If Russia does invade and take over they will be ruling over a pile of dog shit with a hugely hostile population.

First of all Russia wont invade, but if the people want to join these new republics or create their own then Russia might be interested in talking to them about that... lots of Ukrainians left for Russia and the EU might want to come home when they find out the nazis are gone... or maybe not.

Sanctions never come in one wave. The west will escalate their sanctions at opportune time for MAX PAIN.

Their problem is that sanction after sanction and you start running out of things you can sanction and eventually it becomes meaningless because most of the remaining people you can sanction probably noticed all the previous sanctions and likely took measures to protect themselves from future measures like moving their money and assets back to Russia... which is actually very good for Russia.

More importantly Russia is not stupid and they can see the things the west wont sanction under any circumstances... like EU food exports to Russia... and they can sanction those things in their counter sanctions.

After the new wave of sanctions Putin said counter sanctions are being prepared and that they might not be reciprocal... in other words they might sanction totally different things... like rare earth minerals or gas or oil or titanium or aluminium or diamonds or gold... there is a wide field of things that are critical to the west they could decide to block...


The sanctions will likely drive the prices higher so what they sell to the rest of the world will earn them more money, and the west who would need those products and materials will have to buy at higher prices from third parties which will dramatically increase their costs and prices..

When Russian troops attack Ukraine positions Russia will get sanctioned. When Russia makes some legal declaration or Donetsk has elections/referendum their will be sanctions timed for that.

Have you not noticed... sanctions so far have not worked at all. Russia has not changed its stance or a single policy due to western sanctions... the next super sanctions are always claimed to be the one that changes that and they never are... when the west escalates it just allows Putin to escalate their response...

It’s sad that people on this forum don’t understand the basics and keep listening to spin guruus like Garry b and archangels and kvs

Russia now exports more food than it has ever exported before thanks to western sanctions that allowed Russia to ban food imports from the EU.

It balances its budget and is putting aside a lot of money for more difficult times and their economy is growing rather well and looks very healthy.

All the first sanctions focussed on denying Russia gas and oil extraction and transport technology... they now do it all with domestic technology... they make their own 5th gen fighter planes for goodness sake, and have revolutionised their armed forces...

This shift away from the west as it is now is necessary.... the question is... when will the EU realise the US is broken and is taking them with it and start making choices that benefit their own citizens instead of worrying about the 1% in the US.

Of course they still don't care about real human rights or democracy so they are not going to be best buddies with Russia any time soon.

These guys might as well be getting paid for kremlin because in their eyes russia has never made a bad move.

Of course they have, but nothing that matters that much these days... the position Russia is in today the US could only dream of... their military is a bit small but very well organised and very well equipped and trained, and their leadership doesn't send them to pointless shitholes around the world on meaningless murder adventures to kill muslims and non whites. Russia is a huge country whose mineral resources remain largely untapped... a harsh country, most of it, but as technology improves new materials and equipment and you could learn to cope quite well.

I would think there are a lot of conservative people who would go to Russia in a heart beat just to try it out if they could speak and read Russian.

The statement was made by Hua Chunying, a spokesperson for the Chinese chancellery. According to her, sanctions “have never been an effective means of solving problems." She called the US action " immoral."

No US ally could say that... but they were all thinking it...

They wont say it because they know immoral narcissistic countries like the US can really be nasty when they think they have been crossed or even just not fluffed properly.

After liberating Ukraine and cleansing it of all NATzO minions, Russia has no other choice but to keep the momentum and seize back its baltic oblasts that are currently under Lithuanian, Latvian and Estonian occupation.

Actually after seeing the situation stabilised and these new republics actually developing and growing with the open trade through their natural border with Russia which they likely  traditionally traded with Russian companies and customers in the past, it is rather likely their standard of living will go up dramatically... especially if the pensioners living there with Russian citizenship start to receive Russian pensions...

Maybe the people who are only anti Russian when a Nazi is in front of them with a gun might start thinking that that could be a good solution for their situation and problems... in the rest of the Ukraine and even the Baltic states...

Being hard core anti Russia got them loans and not much else... even just being neutral will get them some of the trade they used to have with Russia, though much of their products and services have likely been replaced during their absence they will at least sell more to the Russian market than the EU market was interested in.

It is the best option going forward for most of them... but whether they are allowed to do that is another matter... we know the EU and HATO will look on as they are murdered for not being anti Russian enough and nothing will be done about it... so maybe they will do nothing.

Putin wont invade... he only goes where he is invited... South Ossetia, Crimea, Syria, Donbass and Lugansk regions, Kazakhstan, etc etc.

Presumably if the invasion fails, Putin would be removed in a coup.

What invasion?

A coup would require the support of the military and the FSB so it isn't going to happen... Putin is good for those orgs and for Russia and they know it.

Lots of things have aligned right now, some by design and some not, that have created an opening for moving into Ukraine at this time.

Kiev forces occupy land owned by these new independent regions... I suspect these regions will want to take it back... and if they get a lot of resistance they can ask for help... unlike Kiev.

Jesus, man...

Going for the record.

But obviously being on the other side of the planet when I wake up there are 4 or 5 new pages in this thread... am I supposed to ignore it?

I am not the one to encourage escalation, from the safety far away and behind my keyboard.
I hope for any russian/LPR/DPR/Belarusian troops things go their way.
And lets hope the ukrainian army routs fast when/if the ball starts rolling.

Ideally Zelensky will realise the game is up and order his troops to pull back to the official borders... because there is no way they could hold them.

It would avoid his forces being massacred, and would create a diplomatic situation where talks could still take place on details like what the borders with these new republics will look like.

Been thinking, what stops Russian Army from simply driving into the Ukraine?

International law... the same laws that stopped them rolling it to Tiblisi in 2008 or 2009 or 2010 or 2011....

Since the NATzO fake stream media and even alt media pundits are all spewing shit about how Russia has sent in forces into the LDNR,
Russia may as well help the LDNR to kick back the Kiev regime punitive forces far from the populated areas. These criminals should
not have any chance to shell civilians.

I would say the only sensible reason to do this is so they can stop the shelling and have things in these regions return to a real normal, otherwise the status quo didn't involve the west getting its panties in a bunch... as entertaining as that is to watch... how quickly they forget things like Kosovo et al.

The excised organ to be saved , must now , be put on life support . This is no solution for the rest of Ukraine . Identify the cancer cells , and surgically remove with injection of Iskander missiles . Problem solved . No more intervention required .

Would add that those two organs survived just fine the last half decade on their own obviously with secret trade across the Russian border so open trade across the border should be no problem at all.

Either way society is divided. And as for invading the Ukraine outright, I don't imagine who would support such an insane move.

Putin has repeatedly said he will not invade anywhere. He can be invited into these republics if they have problems moving orcs out of their republics, and if they do I suspect it will be rather similar to what happened in South Ossetia in 2008.

Rebels can’t do anything on their own. They probably can’t even use toilet paper properly . Reminder to people on this forum how the Russian military bailed them out in 2014. And continue to bail them out everyday.

Without the threat of Russian air incursion and russia smuggling SAMs into Donbas Ukraine/turkey drone operators would be eating n asty 30 cent porridge while blowing the rebels to bits. They are nothing without Russia. The delusions of grandeur on this site by some people is laughable.

Even if that was true, which it isn't... Russia has said it will support these new republics and already has permission from the Russian government to move military forces into these regions if needed, I rather suspect a few Orc units are already withdrawing and the Russians will be watching carefully what they are doing.

At the very least the Russians will have to send sappers in to deal with mines and UXO and other bullshit those Orcs will have left behind for the old pensioners to come home to.

Mh17 wouldn't have happened either of Russia proper took control of the fight in the Donbas.

It is like the attack on VDV peacekeeper bases in South Ossetia... you don't expect your enemy to be that dumb but sometimes they even surprise the most careful planner.

Putin has declared it time to start a mission to remove nazism and demilitarize Ukraine, this means full annexation of Ukraine.

Just to any artillery positions around the territory in question of these two brand new republics... I am sure he is not interested in the rest... unless he has been in contact with other people in the Ukraine and they asked for help too.

I don't know what the plan is. But whatever it is, it's dumb.

The plan would be to kick the orcs out of these new republics and establish proper border crossing points for a point in the future when they might be needed or wanted.

This is a tragedy any way it's spun and this event should not be cheered upon. Lives will be lost.

Lives are being lost through terrorist acts and sporadic shelling... this is a solution to that illegal activity, while sticking to the letter of international law.

Funny you pretend to care about lives now... you must be sobbing over Libya and Syria and Iraq and Afghanistan...

I only hope this is a lesson for future Russian leadership on the need to be proactive and act against sworn enemies firmly and decisively before events unfold instead of allowing the imposition of cancer and letting it spread through the target. The operations to correct these are more costly afterwards. Preventive care is the best care.

Who knew the US would bring murdering nazis to power in the Ukraine till they actually did it. Previous colour revolutions in the country were largely harmless in comparison.

Like the Germans in WII I suspect the Americans were surprised and a little frightened at how keen these bastards are to kill and torture.

Another reason to not want them back.

With that said, the cancer must be removed before it grows even bigger, beyond the point of no return, of the point of no return (as it currently stands). Those who know better should and will lay their arms down I hope.

Putin isn't going to fix all of the Ukraine... just clear out the new republics territory of vermin, and the start fixing things and building roads and rail lines etc etc.

Investments will return with interest in the future as the regions grow and develop and get over their painful bloody birth spasms.

And 'we will not occupy the Ukraine'. Well then WTF was your speech about a few days ago implying that the Ukraine is some fake state?

Ukraine is a fake state, but it is not a Russian state any more and is no longer a Russian problem.

Where is Garry b the Russophile spinster to tell us Russia never cared about Ukraine. This is comedy gold.

Kiev have made themselves a military threat to these new republics and are occupying their territory... attacking military throughout the Ukraine is a good way to get them to withdraw and start talks... ask the west about what they did to Serbia to get Kosovo clear of Serb forces...

LMAO an air attack like that on Kiev? That’s like operation storm 333 in Afghanistan. That is some crazy balls and very dangerous. But if they succeed. God bless Russia

Lets get some actually confirmation before we start to believe what the western media is screaming about.