Russian special military operation in Ukraine #4

Really sad sight. I was hoping she could be preserved

Its only use was for propaganda for Kiev... it was intended to support a space programme, shifting outsized loads from factories where they were made to launch pads... Ukraine has no space programme so it was a white elephant for them.

There was no way Russia could use it either... it is Soviet and therefore largely Ukrainian... the amount of upgrades and modifications needed... it makes sense to simply wait for Slon with its PD-35 engines.

I'm no expert but that damage looks like it was caused by demolition charges set in the fuselage just forward of the wing. Doesn't surprise me, these fckers have no respect for anything.

I am no expert either but it looks to me like the set fire to it and let it burn... the wing on the left side of the image seems to have collapsed...

Putin said Ukraine more advanced than North Korea in nuclear ! Does this mean Ukraine has nukes , but lacks delivery mechanism ? Probably does .

No. It means they have people as part of the Soviet Union who actually made nukes and know how to make them given suitable materials.

Ukraine makes ballistic weapons too and could quickly build an IRBM suitable for reaching Moscow or St Petersberg with a nuke warhead.

From what I can gather the Ukr Nazis are the real war criminals here but on that inconvenient matter the Western media has gone deaf and blind. All they can do is spew unadulterated propaganda. There is no such thing as real journalism - they are all just paid trolls.

In the west Lavrovs replies means it probably wont be shown more than once even if it gets shown at all, it will be edited to death.

The rest of the world will understand but the west will think... who cares about Syrians or Iraqis or Afghans... they were the bad guys, our media told us so, these Ukrainians are the good guys because they are fighting Russians so their lives matter, but of course Russian ones don't.

Which is why these super sanctions will be good for Russia and Russians, because the west sees them as a group anyone can abuse without response... you could accuse them of anything you please and no one will defend them in the west... well the usual suspects will defend them but they are Putins Puppets and are a fringe of society.

Would BUk damage it like that? It would definitely shred it with square holes. So they keep their AA off until the last moment?

Looks like it burned... but may have belly landed.

Also, I doubt that Ukraine has fighter jets active, they did use Su-24 a day ago. Almost impossible to target it when it's flying low and has a cover. But where does it they take off from?

You would be surprised where an Su-25 could operate from...

Interesting note from the Ukr General Staff report of 0600 this morning.

The Russian Air Force is attempting to supress Ukrainian air defences on the Black Sea coast.

Operations of Su-24Ms, using RBK-500 cluster bombs, escorted by Su-30SMs, is reported.

Clearly having problems losing helicopters supporting land operations...

They thought it would end quickly and don't want to be held accoubtable so they don't take iniciatives or decisions.

Considering the size of the job it is going very well, this is not a third world country they are dealing with, the enemies air defence is better than any western countries air defence capacity.

If they were invading a truly hostile country like France they could use artillery and fire support and use retreating civilians to really block roads and cause problems for their enemy, but this isn't France and a lot of locals are not the enemy.

Some of them very much are, which makes it orders of magnitude more difficult than any Serbian or western military response.

Airforce compensate the number advantage of the ukrainians and their ambush tactics. Yet russians aren't using it.

Really?

And how many IED attacks did the US air force stop in Afghanistan?

You do understand that having large numbers of aircraft roaming around is just asking them to survive a very dangerous environment with operational BUKs and other systems around the place that might not be coordinated in an IADS but are still quite dangerous.

And even then what is the chance that they would be overhead when a small group of Orcs attacks a Russian convoy?

You are being ridiculous.

And I just saw first video of Orion being used in Ukraine. SIgn they are getting little desperate.

Sign you were wrong claiming they weren't using drones. Desperate to cover that lie by pretending all of a sudden they are now using drones...

They have gone out of their way not to specify a time frame so you can safely ignore claims like "They thought it would end quickly" as trolling.

In addition claims that they are suddenly using drones shows they are getting desperate, which does not make sense... did they carry drones and just not use them?

The use of drones is a normal part of their training these days but the increased use of large drones like Orion is likely to hunt down Nazi forces and also ambush groups near their own forces...

They will also likely continue to use attack helicopters to pick off enemy air defence vehicles as well as other threats.

No I mean in way that they finally employed one of the 6 or 9 Orion's they have in attack role.

Because now it has a job to do... find nazis and ambushing teams... and start to clean up...

Orion in the air, hitting Aidar command post

Wonder if they have been operational all this time or just now

They were launching missiles at targets in Syria long before we ever saw photos of them armed.

I doubt it is true. Those numbers are way to high for ukrainian people... it's like their 3 years salary.

If I was letting them out I would not be letting them out cheap because if I got caught I would likely be sent to a front line unit or put in jail or just shot for letting able bodied defenders of the motherland escape their duty.

Too much money tbh, 1000-2000 USD maybe but all above that is too much.

I doubt many would afford the 10K but then I rather suspect they don't just want to let everyone through either... making it 10K means only the super rich can leave... I doubt those in power would object.... but letting people through for so little... they wont get much in terms of a cut, so why let them through?

If Kornet max range is 5500m , then drone could be 3 miles from target

Kornets range is determined by a lot of things including elevation and model... the newer ones with HE warheads reach 10km range from a ground launch.

This guys says many drones are in Ukraine, but vids not being released

He says they are striking Ukrainian nationalists constantly

As you would expect...

SKY News talks about how UK citizens are going to have to pay for a conflict thousands of kms away

Well don't they always do that? Falklands, Malaya, Iraq, Syria, Yemen, Ukraine, etc etc They already sent weapons... did they think that was it?

I don't understand why Russia doesn't send reinforcements ? They will start loosing what they gained. It would be nice if they send some fresh troops. Maybe 20-25 k.

The main Orc army is pinned in cauldrons and the rest are just rag tag groups that reinforcements would only provide more targets for.

The VDV and Naval Infantry are very well armed and rather skilled soldiers... they know what they are doing... they are trained to ambush enemy forces in the enemy rear areas... they know what the enemy will be doing and how to counter them.

Was Ugroza ever introduced officially into service tho?

Guided 80mm rockets have been displayed at arms shows, but whether they are in full service or perhaps just for testing purposes is hard to say.

Certainly the new box shaped rocket pods don't seem to have been deployed, but the new laser guided rockets are supposed to be compatible with existing rocket pods without modification... including single tube launchers for drones.

According to the Russian MD it was a diversionary group of Ukrs inside the building that was late torched which attacked Russian forces.
I doubt this story. Maybe LDNR forces use Vartas but why would Russian forces use them? OK, maybe to replace broken down similar
pieces of equipment.

Since the regime side is admitting that Energodar and the power plant are under Russian control, I guess Russian forces use captured
Ukr equipment.

What are you talking about?

The Russians controlled the station and some Orcs attacked it using their own vehicles and set it on fire... the Russians beat back the attack and occupy the station with civilian operators running the place.

Why would LDNR be involved?

A force of 70,000 is way too small to clean up the massive territory occupied by a rather large population.

I think they are expecting a large portion of the population to accept surrender and then continue under their own rule till new elections can be held.

Wiping out the nazis can be done with drones and artillery and air power and does not need thousands more soldiers.

Many of the conscripts will likely be disarmed and then sent home, except for the nazis they have the names and information about who will be disarmed and arrested and tried for their crimes.

yes ukraine is still a big country. With alot of nazi lovers

I suspect the ones in the west of the country will be left, there is no value in going there... hopefully that will create an exodus of idiots from the rest of the country which will allow them to have normal relations with Russia.

Why burn it? They could have used it in direct support at least.

They likely didn't have fuel or ammo...

Well, more western equipment to be evaluated by Russians. I personally don't like how bulky NLAWs are...

The storage tubes are enormous, but the weapons inside are no bigger than RGP-28s...

Orders from on high. Lavrov mentions it in interviews as a plus point, Russia not wanting to kill normal Ukie soldiers.

Most of them are conscripts and given the choice would not be shelling the Donbass and Lugansk.

I don't understand. Are those ukrainian tunguska destroyed for propaganda ?

Ukrainian... likely don't have any missiles or cannon shells...

I too have a suspicion they might be ukrainian. The small fires seen can hardly damage an armoured vehicle like Tunguska isn't it?

They likely spread fuel inside and will leave them to burn for hours or days.... the electronics will of course be ruined and as you can see in the "after" photos the missile tubes and radar arrays are all burned up and even the cannon barrels are at a funny angle... I suspect the engines would be burnt out too...

That's exactly what I'm saying - they should have used it but they chose to rather use it for propaganda.

They likely had no missiles or cannon shells.

completely fake doc.

It has been automatically translated into English so I am impressed you can tell whether it is fake or not.

I don't claim to know much about how these things work during the wartime but I would heavily doubt they would admit effective destruction of their army and loss of 40% of the country in a letter that has any chance of leaking. Those kind of messages would only be exchanged between very narrow team who know they all end up against the wall if capitulation takes place.

If it suggests surrender it would need to say why... and admitting being overwhelmed by the enemy would need to be part of the reason.

A ukie military coup is a fantasy idea, its not going to happen in reality

Why... do you think they like fighting the Russian army and dying for some Nazi idiots in their own country and Washington?

I remember Garry the idiot telling me that there is no evidence that drones are good against SAMS in another thread.

Bye Bye Bitcointraitor. Spread your Orc propaganda on another forum.

Somehow you trolls believe that a conflict is possible without any losses from the attacker - just shows how naive/clueless you guys are or you're just trolling for the sake of trolling.

They are used to western operations where local civilian casualties are not even noticed let alone catered to in the military invasion plan.

The west would never consider risking losing lives of their own soldiers to save foreigners in countries they are invading to save those foreigners from their leaders who wont play ball with the west.

Except that consideration about soldiers lives does not extend to not attacking countries you have no military reason to invade.... but the reasons are economic because some 1% could either lose or make billions if you do invade.

They even said "we can not sit and watch what the russians are doing"

Are they going to halt all Russian gas supplies to Europe?

Maybe Russia should.

With tactics like that Russia might not win this war.


This leadership is delusional.

No point winning the battle to lose the war.... if Russian forces treat the Ukrainians like US forces treated Serbs or Iraqis, well maybe they should... one Serb seems to love Americans now and hate Russians so maybe there is something in the "Treat them mean to keep them keen" myth.

You guys were assuring me that all Ukrainian AD systems other than man pads were suppressed or destroyed.

How many operational buks did Ukraine even have.

Why aren't they being jammed?

No one did any such thing... their IADS network will be broken, but the individual vehicles will remain dangerous... that is why we saw video of Havocs destroying individual Orc Artillery vehicles... it would also be hunting air defence vehicles too.

Expensive Javelin ! Yes another weakness . I was thinking that decoy convoy could be set up . Consisting of empty vehicles , with no engine . Connected like train , only with a driver to steer , and lead vehicle pulling . Driver's cabin only armoured . Then just drive along Roads and absorb hits , ahead of real convoy . And trap the javelin nest with mobile hunters .

Probably easier to just pop smoke...

And fire cannon at the launch position.

What these assholes are doing is placing rocket launchers and allitery in residential areas, firing at the Russian military and hoping that the Russian military responds by shelling them back. So they can capture it on camera and show it to the west.

I am not a military person, so I don't know, how you would deal with this. But would sending special forces covertly and taking out the rocket launchers and allitery work?

Guided weapons to take out the enemy hardware without flattening the place.

The fact that russians are intricately familiar with soviet era buks, but STILL aren't able to jam them 100% of the time shows that either Russian EW quality and coverage is shitty, or for some inexplicable reason they aren't turning their EW on.

I am very well versed in an SLR (FN FAL) rifle... does not mean I am immune if someone wants to fire at me with one.

There are claims made yesterday that alleged that Putin openly stated that "Russians and Ukrainians are one people."

With this attitude he will destroy the conventional Russian armed forces.

I do not even think that ethnic Ukrainians are even Slavs, and compare this to Putin's spread of hatred against the genuinely Slavic Poles.

As a Polish person I am disgusted with such behavior.

Don't confuse nationality with ethnicity.

Ukraine is a political creation by the communists... it was called Russia before that.

Putins dislike of Poles is probably a reflection of their actions and words towards Russia while he has been in power...

It is Putin who gave Ukraine lots of free money and free natural gas since that country became openly hostile in 2014.

No he hasn't.

However there is a difference between that and having your forces behave in such a way it puts them at undeeded risk because you wanna play Mr nice guy

Going full western warcrime is not the solution either.

As I said, putin must not know that croatian hatred of serbs(croatians are catholic serbs brainwashed by austrians) exists and FYROMistani hatred of Bulgarians(FYROMistanis are pure bulgarians brainwashed by serbs) exists, both of which is uncurable seething hatred more intense than any ethnic hatred between less related ethnicities out there.

He understands it, but I suspect he questions whether it is as universal as the west likes to pretend... the Ukraine is not a democracy and people not happy with Zelensky or the west really don't get much say in anything, so how would anyone know whether they oppose what Russia is trying to do or not?

Shelling everything that moves leads to the enemy doing what the KLA did in Kosovo... find some locals who don't hate Serbs and kill a Serb soldier or policeman there so they over react turning the locals against them.

Russia needs to make sure it kills the bad guys... there is no reason to kill everyone... that is what the west would do... I mean one bomb at Kabul airport killing 13 Americans and then the remaining Americans mowing down 150 Afghans because they are evil and hate the locals with a passion...

The founder of the forum, he is VDV, he fought in chechnya

I would like to hear Vlad , I would like to know what he thinks

Knowing his posts, probably not much good to say

Was not certain he was still with us, but the last few days and nothing from him confirm he probably is not...

It's not my advice, its Ramzan Kadyrov, and it merited a response from Peskov

It's obvious, this should have gone differently

He wants to complete his mission and take Kiev.... he could care less about any other problems other than his men... but what if the gloves come off and Kiev no longer has to fake its BS and can just show video of what is happening... right now the west is believing their shit because they can't see anything else, but the rest of the world is probably respecting the Russians for the way they are doing this to minimise casualties.

If you want Putin to act like Bush or Clinton or Obama then what is the point?

I never posted a vid like that or a picture like that

It's pretty damn provocative despite the stupid disclaimer he wrote on the post

The video had a disclaimer that it was graphic included, so it actually complies with the rules of this forum.

But sit there and talk like you understand, your just a fanboy blindly supporting Putin when his actions are doing harm to RUSSIAN SOLIDERS.

The Chechen leader is worried about his troops, but Putin is worried about the entire conflict and clearly isn't ready to use his Chechen forces... obviously frustrating as hell for everyone concerned... amusing you think a military commander should ignore his commander in chief and those here supporting Putin are wrong... if you actually ever were in the military and you called Americans muppets for blindly doing what your commander in chief was ordering... wouldn't that be some sort of insubordination?

The fact putin won that war and is acting like this is in the second is just an utter disgrace because HE KNOWS BETTER.

I think that is the core... Putin does know better... he knows better than you or me, or his commanders because he has access to information we don't and also he is dealing with bigger problems right now... and their effects in the future, which as president he has to deal with and the military wont if he gets it right.

“The US administration is alarmed by the decision of Roskomnadzor to block the social network Facebook in Russia.” - Psaki

Alarmed... they started the game of censorship.... a bit like Germany was shocked when Russia responded to its banning of RT-DE by banning a German broadcaster in Russia.... these people are idiots... they don't expect Russia to respond?

I have a hypothetical question: What would happen, if Russia tried to use the Bosporus strait for its warships and Turkey attacked them? Would Turkey be able to use Article 5 of Nato (An Attack Against One...) or would Turkey be on its own officially, because it attacked first?

Why would they want more ships in that lake?

I will never forgive Putin for this

So the Orcs continue their shelling... 2-3 Ukrainians killed every night for how long?

The US helping Kiev develop some nuclear weapons...

Not to mention those bio weapon labs the US has there... what are they doing?

Certainly not working on Covid or defence....

But only because of Putin, and his whole system, and the whole economy which he has built.

Of course... if Putin had kept Russia poor and energy dependent there would not have been any problems...

Has Navalny hacked your account?

The verminous Ottoman cockroach that trolls this thread won't like to see this...

If you had read his posts, despite the abuse he is getting from some on this forum he has expressed that he supports Russia now, though your abuse might flip him again despite you not being Russian.

There are some that are not interested in the truth and are unlikely to see they were wrong let alone admit it... Aristide is one example, but don't assume everyone is actually a fool.

Quick question, if the whole point of this operation is demilitarization and denazification, wouldn't the Russian military have to go to western ukraine to flush out the banderites hiding there?

Maybe they don't want a genocide where they have to kill absolutely everyone so I doubt it.

The double cauldrins that 10's of 1000's of Ukraine troops are being surrounded by , how many chances should they get to surrender ? I think maybe let starvation set in for awhile first. Give them a chance to think about it.

They will have lists of names and likely also photos, so I suspect most conscripts from most units will be disarmed and allowed to go free, but certain units and certain individuals of interest will be detained.

It has to do with the fact that soldiers died , when they didn't have to

No matter how people want to cover it up, dress it up, or shape it up

It is what it is, people lost their lives , trying to enter cities, hold positions, and maneuver by fire without the correct amount of pressure applied on the enemy

These are not conscripts, these men signed up to fight for their country and their country needs them to deal with Nazi scum operating on their borders.

Any death is a shame, but equally people were already dying and Russia put a stop to that.

Russian forces are in Ukraine to kill armed enemy only... not level the place and shoot the survivors.

I am not against the war, UKRs are not brotherly people

They are enemy combatants who shoot at our forces and do not deserve mercy

I give a shit about Ukraine or its people

I have seen how they speak, if they are brainwashed I dont give a damn

To hell with them all, the ones that are friendly are hiding

Everyone else is a nazi in my eyes and should have been hit hard

Rather pay money for reconstruction then lose 500 more guys

They are not sparing the enemy combatants... they are sparing the civilians... these are light recon forces essentially, the sort that are deployed ahead of the main forces to clear the way and find threats and encircle hard things like cities for the follow up forces to deal with.

This is what they do.

Putin doesn't use his military on a whim or for fun... this is serious and he is taking this serious and is probably more upset about losses than you are...

But lets just blame him... the western media does and they are always right.

A better question is if this operation is to save people from banderite terrorism, wouldn't one of the big priorities be destroying ukroshit artillery in donbass ASAP? Why is the russian military still allowing banderites to be in range of gorlovka and donetsk, when they can easily silence the artillery there, since they have tracked its movements for 8 years?It sucks that civilians are still dying in the DNR from casual ukro artillery strikes.

Amazing how easy you think this war thing is... they just snap their fingers and it is done... BTW tracking something for 8 years does not tell you where it is going to be tomorrow... or the day after.

Hit and run attacks from individual artillery vehicles is what they have to do to stay alive and while annoying isn't as effective as what is coming for them... whether it is suicide drones or attack helicopters or enemy artillery...

I still don't understand why Russia didn't attack in 2014, I am 100% there wouldn't be so many sanctions or outrage then.

In 2014 the engines and engine repair for 90% of their helicopter fleet was from Motor Sich, their conventional ship engines as well, not to mention most of their transport aircraft.

The last 8 years Russia has made enormous progress in areas like food production but also weapons and equipment... I don't think this operation would even be possible back then.

What was the rationale behind banning Facebook?

Hostile communication system, why let it exist?

I wonder if this Facebook ban was a knee jerk reaction made by some geriatric minister in the Russian government.

Creates a vaccuum for something not foreign controlled to take its place.

Putin is NOT crazy, the Russian invasion is NOT failing: BILL ROGGIO

How long will that last on the Dailymail website...

I know Werewolf, its just peak insanity here.
The misinformation from western media reporting on the wars in the middle East look like a dry run to what is happening now. Screaming for War.

Any coke dealer knows you shouldn't sample your own product... it is not healthy...

You’re making stuff up, Gaz. There was no attempt to re-educate the Boer internees, we were just trying to keep them alive; and we succeeded with at least 82.5%.

I hope you understand your sources which you keep quoting are British.... perhaps it is you that needs to be reeducated?

Better than your sources, which are… entirely non-existent. Attacking sources instead of attempting rebuttal of arguments is the hallmark of the propagandist, not the honest seeker of truth.

You can't know whether the information is true or not till you have analysed the sources and what interests they had in the matter.

Would you take as seriously nazi documents regarding their attempt to kill Jewish people during WWII?

The British Empire killed more damn natives than the Germans ever did...

A comedy programme? That’s what your citing in support of your contention? Are you serious? Are you seriously f***ing serious?

A comedy programme that is taught in universities showing the ins and outs of British politics... they are serious too.

The names have been changed but a lot of the situations are quite real.

That’s what’s known as a ‘quip’, old chap. A ‘joke’. A ‘bon mot’ even. Why don’t you write to the Germans and see if they can advise you how a sense of humour works?

Not ment to be a joke... more true than that liar could honestly admit.

Winston was under no illusions about his written contribution to the historical record, writing in the preface to the first volume of his The Second World War (emphasis added):

There is no shortage in the west of the western view of events... he revealed no secrets or real inside information in his books... it was more along the lines of this is the party view, if you want to remain at this party this is your view too.

Read a book, Gaz. Read. A. Book.

I would rate The cat in the hat, as being superior quality propaganda than anything Churcill penned.

Sorry that damages your world view.

Where the West, including Britain, refused assistance to Poland after their offensive was halted then reversed;

Hahahaah... so the west stopped helping them when they were stopped and started losing?

Quality support there... seems familiar actually...

Where the West, including Britain, refused assistance to Poland after their offensive was halted then reversed; pressured the Poles to retreat to the earlier established 1919 border; refused recognition to the Polish-created Ukrainian People’s Republic and blocked their admittance to the League of Nations; then leant on the Poles to accept the Soviet peace terms. But hey, Gaz, you crack on with your worshipping at the altar of victimhood; some day someone will give a s**t.

So Poland was the wests lapdog which they abandonned... why should I care... Poland are still the bad guys in this and the fact that Britain stopped supporting them when they started losing tells me all I need to know about British support.

And you, in turn, enjoy your new Chink overlords. Except… you’re in New Zealand?

New Zealand is a little country of not much consequence, there are always going to be relationships with countries that are so much bigger they could squash us like a bug.

The only countries I really fear are the US and UK doing something stupid to keep their empires of the clueless intact.

Gaz, you are manifestly utterly impervious to facts, so twisted with hatred of the West you hypocritically yet choose to live in. I’ll not waste further time with your Anglophobic s**tpile of a propaganda platform.

The west creates it own history and its own truth but nothing can hide the fact that when the cold war ended and there was a chance to heal and create a real balance on the planet they chose to destroy Russia and break it up into little bits and consume its resources... Putin has been working hard on two goals... rebuilding and restoring Russia and trying to engage and work with the west.

The west had the choice and it chose to destroy the only country on the planet able to not just wipe them out but also most of the human race, and we are living with the results of that choice now.

I had no choice as to where I was born and the fact that I remain in the west pointing out its faults and trying to get it to make better choices, I think is to my credit... running away from the place I came from for a better life is selfish and shallow, but then that is what the west is creating these days.

This forum is about Russia, but when westerners pop in from time to time to tell me how misunderstood the west is I am obliged to hold a mirror up and show that while it likes to hold its enemies up to its own morals and ethics... it rarely does the same for itself... where was the moral outrage at the US plan to break some hardened prisoners out of jail in Venezuela and then break into an Army base to steal weapons for them to start a guerilla campaign... it is from the American plans... they call it a play book because they are idiots who don't understand things not worded in the frame of the lame sports games.

God bless true Russians (Боже, храни Святую Русь), may they triumph in their current struggle with as little loss as possible; and God damn the promoters of division and hatred on both sides—looking at you, Gaz.

The irony is that I agree with that... this war created by the US was only ever intended to create a bloody conflict to weaken Russia.

Stalin understood very well what needs to be done with the Ukraine and its people. You don't have to be merciful.

Putin achieved better results than Stalin with nothing like the bloodshed and fear except amongst the real 5th column.

That territory to the West should be the "neutral" Ukraine that has been discussed, since that is the proper "frontier" or transition between the Russian and Western world. But they need to be neutral and not a nest of rabid nazis, sabotaging the territories to the East and de facto blocking Russia's communication with the rest of Europe for decades to come. Not the easiest dilemma to solve, I would say.

When the dust settles who is going to want to test Mr Putin again?

Don't think GarryB will survive this conflict in one piece. Jesus Christ what a beating.

I will be fine, thanks for your concern.

Ukraine is claiming that they control the Zaparozhe power plan.

I only see tweets, no solid proofs.

That might just mean their civilian workers are back to work.

Someone in the Kremlin probably thinks to scrap neutrality. Make Ukraine another Belarus. It will probably be too hard but we'll see

Wont matter what anyone in the Kremlin thinks... it will come down to the people on the ground and what they vote for.

Western hysteria is moving the goal posts. Putin's administration started out with asking for commitments from NATzO about Ukraine.
It got the middle finger. It staged a regime change operation and NATzO went off the rails and is in danger of starting a war. So
the neutrality aspect is dead. I only see some sort of occupation as in Kosovo with Russian military bases and heavy support for
the new government to secure itself and clean house. Neutrality does not make sense. The existing state of affairs will lead to
a pro-NATzO regime return. This can only be avoided by installing and protecting a pro-Russian government. Most people in the
operational zone are going to support this. Many will not, but that is unavoidable.

I can see the regions next to western frontiers wanting Orcs in power, but Lugansk and Donbass and the area around it will almost certainly be Russian friendly... the bit chunk next to it could be neutral and not be pro or anti Russia, but they can have a constitution written that means they can't join the EU without also joining the Russian equivalent... which the west will never tolerate so they will be stuck between them essentially neutral.

The regions that border Poland etc... who cares?

Russia does not seek to divide Ukraine into parts, Kremlin spokesman says

The Kremlin spokesman emphasized that Russia did not seek to divide Ukraine into
parts but only wanted to ensure its own national security

Can't see any alternative... they wont be handing Crimea or Lugansk or Donbass back so it is going to be in pieces anyway.

I think it would be quite fitting if they did... afterall with the end of WWI Paris and London made lots of additions to maps in the Middle East creating royal families out of nothing and dividing up the known oil reserves in the region...

It would be apt for the new empire of the 21st century to start redrawing lines in Europe.

The west started it with their make believe country Kosovo...

So much so, that UK political whores have no business lecturing anyone...

Everyone has skeletons, but these idiots like Boris speak as if their words should mean something.

Russia could care less about the UK and the UK spends a lot more talking about Russia than Russia talks or thinks about the UK.

I see he has made some "interesting" comments on the Anglo-Boer War's concentration camps here - but for now I will refrain.

But what he said was true because he was quoting British books on the subject...