Russian special military operation in Ukraine #10

sepheronx wrote:Of course they will take Kharkov. They have it surrounded. They are waiting till there are enough forces to put the squeeze further.

If there were more troops They would have done both at same time but they didn't use a ton for this op. They are still relying on meeting up with DNR and LPR forces in the middle.

I don’t think Kharkov is fully surrounded, at least not according to any of the maps I have seen even the most enthusiastic pro Russian ones, and I don’t think Russians themselves  have ever made the claim either.
But after the Donbas front is hopefully crushed or even during, it should be the priority target imo and doesn’t matter if it’s surrounded yet anyway, it appears as you said troops are building up so I would expect an attack to either coincide or just after Donbas . Odessa I think should be left until last, after Banderistan troops are demoralised and have lost the eastern front at least, its a huge city with almost a million people, heavily fortified , mined and defended by Nazi battalions, who would undoubtedly use the civilians as they did in Mariupol or even worse considering what they did during the protests years ago.

Has the Russian air force been staging combat patrols on western ukrainian territory? If not, why is that? I thought Ukrainian air defence is very poor. If they fly high, they won't be vulnerable to Strela 10s, stingers and iglas.

GunshipDemocracy wrote:

kvs wrote: Anyway, the Ukrs are getting trashy or expired munitions from their best
pals.

 

The quality of ammo  is proportional to the quality of friendship

It is not a case folks.
Bulgaria was known for producing crap gear for decades.
It was widely known in the whole WarPac. They have made the worst AK clones, worst ammo etc.
The PG rounds for RPG-7 of Bulgarian origin were used to fake the armor quality tests back there. It's penetration was about half of the Soviet ones, so you could easily fool the testing by applying a round that should have penetrated 400mm, but was 200-230 in real.
Wine. They should have stuck with wine ...

lancelot wrote:

limb wrote:Has the Russian air force been staging combat patrols on western ukrainian territory? If not, why is that? I thought Ukrainian air defence is very poor. If they fly high, they won't be vulnerable to Strela 10s, stingers and iglas.

What is the point in securing airspace you aren't going to be conducting operations in anyway? It just spreads your own aviation resources more thinly. Deep missions into Ukraine also mean it would be harder to recover pilots if they need to bail out.

To demoralize the ukrainians, t prevent any western incursion, to destroy western weapons shipments.

PapaDragon wrote:

flamming_python wrote:...They couldn't have predicted Bucha...

Bucha is the oldest trick in the book and has been in use for 30 years

Everyone here in Serbia have predicted it and I honestly can't believe that Russian intel department is so far behind the curve

Stuff like Bucha and especially Krematorsk are called "Markale Routine" and they followed playbook to the letter: tell people that they should go somewhere and then slaughter them for the journalists

Only difference is that instead​ of market and mortar shells there was railway station and Tochka missile



Russians set themselves up for Bucha the moment they pulled out and gave Ukrainians the stage for this little theater and this will be repeated in every single place that Ukrainians retake from Russia

Don't give them anything because they will make sure you regret it

The football match lasts until the referee blows the whistle, not earlier.


Russia, China, Iraq, Syria, Nigeria or Nicaragua also predicted what we Serbs predicted. What the West is doing is raising hatred towards Russia among its own population, and it will only succeed in that.
And this story about chemical weapons will be implemented by the West. And well, the Russians are moving on.
And while in the West Putin is compared to Hitler more and more, from Biden through the President of Germany, to that Polish maniac - Putin is silent.
Putin will only indirectly contact the West when he deems it necessary and will send the West guidelines in which direction the next Russian step is going. What do European or US citizens think about Russia and the Russian army, who cares about that in Russia ? The Russians have known what the West has wanted for them for over 100 years.
You pay too much attention to what the West says and you look at this whole conflict in Ukraine too emotionally.

We maybe facing a partition defacto of Ukraine , like in Syria , where external powers with Nukes , dare not move against each other , and all having their own sphere of influence . From the start , the aborted pincer ( and not the feint , as some like to believe ) indicated the long term plans , as being such . However now there is another plan ; a movement from the East to liberate Russian speaking areas . In Syria also , initially , there were Spider-Man leg advances along open Roads , that were not successful , even against the ISIS ! Since the flanks were exposed , and the scale of operation , was too big . Until tactics changed , and numerous smaller advances were made , on a general front .

This leaves West Ukraine , as a land-locked state , since Odessa is majority Russian speaking too . No doubt this western impoverished state , will try to become another NATO ally . Perhaps even stationing Nukes on it's soil , like proposed Poland plan . Then the only way to ensure security in Europe , is reciprocal stationing of Russian Nukes near NATO borders , on a hair trigger ! Nukes will provide mutual security , instead of agreed plans for demilitarized neutral zone , between East and West .

I heard about large scale naval drills by NATO in the North Sea area , aimed at sending signal to Russia , of possible " blockade " ! Again these military planners are thinking in terms of 19- century's antiquated tactics of economic blockades and wars of attrition , in an age of nukes ?! As soon as any pressure by either side becomes an existential confrontation , the nukes will come out to play , and then there are no winners . Failed tactics .

Arkanghelsk wrote:The Ukrainians can sacrifice many more, it will be this way every week

Bucha, kramatorsk, chemical attacks, actually Konashenkov revealed another attack is planned, but it's doesn't matter

Ukrainian citizens are not going to magically switch sides and bring the pain of the SBU and Teraborona on themselves

And as long as western MSM is there to cover it up , the Russian position won't even be heard

The Ukrainians themselves have it good, they surrender, get fed, and traded back to the VSU to be put back into armed units

Our guys cannot be put back into the army because they hand them back crippled and maimed if at all

Ukraine has no fear of such an army , that's why they don't surrender , it will just drag on

In one thing, I agree with what Papadragon mentioned, and that is that the majority of the population of Ukraine are either Nazis or simply do not tolerate Russia. All over the left bank of the Dnieper are brainwashed "ukrainians" and nazis, mostly, so I don't see that the situation can change drastically there. Ukraine was artificially created during Lenin's time and received a Nazi-anti-Russian charge immediately after the collapse of the USSR. The Ukrainian Orthodox Church is being invented and created, Russian names of cities are being changed to Ukrainian ones, they are urinating on the victory of the Soviets in the Second World War, they openly glorify and wear Nazi symbols, etc.
I do not think at all that Russia should take Kiev. Russia only has to demolish the Ukrainian army - thats all. Complete denazification is impossible, but a Russian military victory will surely bring sobriety. We in Serbia know that very well about nazi neighbors, because we know what our neighbors are like, for example Croats, since they still swear allegiance to the Ustashas there in Croatia.
And yes, Russia's request before the conflict began was a special status for the DNR and LNR, as well as the recognition of Crimea as an integral part of Russia. There has been a lot of evil in the past and we will see if Russia's demands increase.

Ukraine is the only country with a majority Orthodox population in the world that glorifies Nazism.

U.K will send Mastiff armoured vehicles to Ukraine. Russian Kornet will destroy every last one of these. This is precisely why NATO doesn't want to supply western tanks, IFVs to Ukraine because they know how they will end up.

https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-uk-sending-armoured-vehicles-for-first-time-as-zelenskyy-demands-firm-response-to-railway-blast-12585798

Bulgarian PG rounds will be an overkill already

Sujoy wrote:U.K will send Mastiff armoured vehicles to Ukraine. Russian Kornet will destroy every last one of these. This is precisely why NATO doesn't want to supply western tanks, IFVs to Ukraine because they know how they will end up.

https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-uk-sending-armoured-vehicles-for-first-time-as-zelenskyy-demands-firm-response-to-railway-blast-12585798

I think it's more like NATO wants countries to send Ukraine their old gear, so they need to replace it with expensive NATO gear.
NATO is a sales force for the US military industrial complex.

I doubt Russia would let Ukraine have their civilian communications up if it was having a material impact on the situation in the ground.

They would leave civilian communications just for the purposes of finding out public opinion.

Regard Ukraine talking about intelligence... first of all they also say they are winning so there is that...

This is my opinion on the development of the Russian Armed Forces after this operation.
As for the price of use of cruise missiles, supersonic missiles or precisely guided anti-tank missiles and the fact that it is also expensive ...Well, it's not, because I'm convinced that Russia produces one Caliber for a price far less than one million dollars. The loss of a military plane is far more expensive, while the construction of attack and strategic nuclear submarines is incomparably more expensive.

It is very American to talk about the cost of war in terms of US dollars.

Missiles are built and are being used to kill nazis so money well spent, much of the missiles could be taken from storage and reserves for this part of the conflict.

The human cost of the conflict is all that will bother them.

The most horrendous thing is that they organized this 'evacuation' on purpose the previous day. Just to have more victims at the train station

But you think they are great and should remain in power because this invasion is stupid.

Your nation is being prepared for more cannon fodder. Volunteers to be sent to the Ukraine. At least I hope that's all it's limited to.
It's best for your people if you join NATO at this stage. Because the alternative is to not be part of NATO, while the US stations some missiles on your territory. Although I think Russia will avoid being provoked here regardless.

Very bad advice there... if Finland wants to remain Finland it should realise joining HATO will just drive a real wedge between you and your rather large neighbour.

If you want to see how effective HATO really is look at what it is doing to actually help Kiev right now.

Essentially it is funnelling weapons to prolong its misery because it does not care about Ukrainians... do you think they care about you?

The point is that Russia is invading the Ukraine to remove a disease... three diseases actually.... bio weapons labs, nuke weapons capacity, and nazism.

If the problem is Poland or a Finland that is part of HATO there is no need to send any troops in at all.... just missiles and warheads.

He wrote to me and gloated about tortured Russian POWs, said that we are all pigs and suck Putin's c*ck, Russia has the stats of Nigeria, and some other not nice things

Well, a little uncalled for. I never advocated for the war or excused its start (and still don't) until the conversation, brief as it was, ended with this outburst.

Which is why the west is no friend of Russia or Russians and you need to look to the rest of the world for people less indoctrinated and brainwashed.

Gloating about anyone being tortured tells you what sort of person he was.... clearly very angry but also obviously powerless and frustrated.

What a small evil little person they have become.

Because a banzai charge of this exhausted, mostly hastily conscripted manpower by now, with their limited ammo, out of their trenches and bunkers, and towards a fortified enemy line where said enemy has overwhelming fire superiority in air-power and artillery - is absolute suicide.

Well lead from the front... perhaps Bojo and the clown can slip on uniforms and lead the charge...

Flaming, if that guy said that to you, then idk what it would take for you to wake up

Ukraine is not our friends, we should be bombing this whole area, not indiscrimately, but heavily where the VSU is

Basing your war strategy on being butthurt over abuse from former friends is not how warfare is successfully conducted.

That friend of FP was obviously a bi queer fruit who is not sure of his gender and therefore hates Putin and all Russians...

That's why they will be ordered to advance

To have all their forces killed rather than surrender in front of the Russian cameras

I don't think you understand how serious this situation is

And most of the forces in that cauldron by now are the people that Kiev managed to forcibly conscript over the past 6 weeks, many with barely any military training.

I hope this is either propaganda or BoJo got dismissed. But you know as well as I do that this is logical from the point of view of Kiev.

Sounds like as good a solution to the current situation as any other....

America is in charge... are you expecting them to stop the death and destruction and just say it was a misunderstanding that got out of hand?

This is what they want.

Ukrainians dead and angry and Russians dead and angry... at each other.

This is a desperate regime. They know if their tens of thousands troops there surrender or are routed, the Ukrainian military is finished, and so are they.

That was the plan.

What Russia can do is keep them pinned with artillery bombardments. That will prevent any advance, and allow Russia to advance and split the pocket into many smaller ones. It can also jam and cut all the lines of communication.

They can also bombardment them with leaflets about Kiev's plans for them. Hasn't worked so far, but it's worth a shot.

Let them advance out of their safe bunkers and walk into machine gun fire and HE.

Didn't know that. Still, I wonder, who or what they are trying to get out of there. I don't think there'd be so much effort to extract them if they were just a few nazi thugs.

They mentioned an American, but also 6 different languages... so maybe British and definitely French and probably German and maybe Dutch... Belgian... your guess is as good as mine.

I do have to say that it's pretty interesting experience when you get angry for Russia wasting lives of it's soldiers in needless land war around Kiev and getting banned for it only for Shoigu himself to go on record couple of days later and say that you have been right all along

The ban was for saying the Russian soldiers involved in this conflict were two brain cell morons for following orders.

Bio weapons, nuclear weapons, and nazis are all good reasons to use its military power... the fact that war was happening anyway this gave them the chance to fire the first shots instead of thousands of civilians being killed when the Orcs launched their attack to take the Donbass and Crimea.

Instead they took some scraps of land and pretended everything was cool while locals were getting slaughtered, FFS they didn't even took the control of Donetsk city, damn place is still getting shelled

The problem of course is that all those years ago those civilians still thought of themselves as Ukrainian and didn't want to join the Russian Federation, whereas the people of the Crimea all thought they were Russian and that the Crimea was Russian territory and wanted to join immediately.

Lugansk and Donbass wanted independence from Kiev but didn't necessarily want to join the RF back then.

The facts: Ukranian population is overwhelmingly composed of Nazis and any effort to spare them of being collateral damage is a waste of time and lives as these last 30 days have shown

I disagree, I think the way Russia has handled itself was much better than western armies have and I think they have opened the eyes of the locals to what BS that Kiev has been filling their ears with these last few decades... Russia is not the enemy.

You could argue that being more brutal might have saved Russian soldier lives, but at what costs... the land and the people are not going anywhere and Russia needs to live with these people as neighbours from now on... knowing they didn't give a shit is one thing, but knowing they risked their lives to spare the lives of Ukrainians in this conflict does not make sense to any westerner of course, but that says more about the west than anything else really.

Nazis need to be killed or put on trial... pretty sure most Ukrainian citizens have come to that conclusion now.

Those who don't understand are probably too far gone... you can't save everyone.

That insanely disciplined radio silence religiously adhered to by entire Ukranian population is one of many evidences of this, one word from Zelensky and they all stopped posting immediately, oppressed civilians my ass..

After a few were publicly executed for reporting damage done by Russian attacks is when it actually stopped and for obvious reasons.

If it's true that Ukraine was planning to attack Donbass Russia should have waited until they started and used that opportunity to launch mass aerial campaign to exterminate attacking VSU and spend at least a month on it until every last thing capable of using firearm was dead before committing any ground troops

A mass aerial campaign? Against an intact Ukrainian IADS?

Amusing you think the better solution would be to bomb them from orbit... America style...

If they fail to do this they will lose not just this war but their own statehood, USA and EU will get the chance to finish what they didn't manage to back in the 90s

They will stop when they are ready to stop, and they wont waste bodies fighting to the Polish border.

Russia is not going to collapse over this... any more than the US collapsed when it was found there were no WMDs in Iraq.

Pussyfooting has to end otherwise Russia will end

Yeah yeah yeah... Putin is weak because he doesn't use military force, and now Putin is weak because he used military force and he should have waited till they had nukes and bio weapons and had already killed thousands more civilians in the Donbass.

You don't get it... if he had waited and Kiev had attacked they would have attacked because the Russians were there already... a Russian invasion was happening whether it actually happened or not... the difference would be if you give the enemy the initiative they might do something unexpected like attack the Crimean bridge with a ship loaded with explosives, or perhaps the naval port of Sevastopol or a range of other Russian targets in the Crimea.

However if the Russian people fall, it wouldn't be the first time in history a tribe ceases to coalesce as a functional group.

For the last 20 years Russia has pulled itself up and grown and developed and become a superpower again... you think the hardship of getting rubles for gas instead of euros will crush their spirits... I understand you are a US strong fanboy, but at least you understand that there is no level of western sanction that could break Russia, you have read your history.

I would say the Americans wont fall either but they will become insignificant if they leave the current 1% that are in charge to lead the ship because full speed towards a light house is simply not good captaincy... it is OK... we are the US.... they will move out of our way...

What Russia should have really done is back Yanukovich. If he was deposed in Kiev, so then evacuate him to Kharkov.

It is funny... you both talk about things like you know what would happen... Russia backing Yanukovich would have destroyed him as a Ukrainian politician... the reason they got rid of him so easily was by saying he was Putins pawn when in fact he was russophobic too... he was just not so dumb as to see a really bad deal and accept it to screw the Russians over.

It's easy to judge in retrospect but yes the Russian strategy was naive.

All you experts think you know so much is it impressive... what if they opened their attack with a Tu-141 delivering a bio weapons attack to Russian territory?

Letting the other side attack first is dumb when the enemy is well armed and equipped unless you don't give a **** about all the potential targets they will strike in the first few hours of the attack.

It's not so simple, a laptop cannot act as a command post for a system like Buk or TOR

It doesn't have to... information via a laptop gives you a direction of approach for any Russian aircraft... rough speed and altitude and they can use the optical backup guidance system to "look" for the target... given a few details it is not that hard... when you spot it power up a missile and launch and then move.

Vastly inferior to an IADS, but effective enough and hard to deal with.

Only difference is that instead​ of market and mortar shells there was railway station and Tochka missile

Maidan was Maidan square and Georgian snipers shooting both sides...

He admitted to significant losses. When the anchor was talking about 6 generals dead, Peskov replied that it's a misunderstanding of the situation

Peskov has not lied and he hasn't said anything the Russian MoD hasn't admitted to itself; namely the 1300 something losses 20 days ago or so.

Imagine the hate members here would spew if he said 1300 Russian soldiers killed was insignificant...

2 would be significant.

Or as you correctly stated 1 month ago, we will be carved up like other places that puss footed against the US

Bullshit... the west is sending weapons but otherwise is having nothing at all to do with this conflict... they wont be sending conventional forces and any special forces sent will be off the books.

Yours and others obsessions with kill ratios, cratering all VSU everywhere, and whatever are all well and good - but they won't win the war but prolong it, and make post war recovery more difficult. The US did not win in Afghanistan or Vietnam or Iraq. Let's not follow their example.

It think you are misunderstanding that... they have x number of nazis that need to be killed so the more they kill while allowing non nazis to surrender and avoiding civilian casualties means a good kill count is a great thing because it means nazis dead.

Has the Russian air force been staging combat patrols on western ukrainian territory? If not, why is that? I thought Ukrainian air defence is very poor. If they fly high, they won't be vulnerable to Strela 10s, stingers and iglas.

Why? Any aircraft they want to shoot down in that area could easily be covered by S-400s in Belarus... why risk aircraft?

To demoralize the ukrainians, t prevent any western incursion, to destroy western weapons shipments.

How would Russian aircraft detect western incursions or shipments of weapons?

We maybe facing a partition defacto of Ukraine

But a European country has never been partitianed like that before ever... except Yugoslavia and lots and lots of other countries really.

I would add that those thinking Russia should be using T-14s, well you do understand that T-14s would be used in built up areas, but it would be Boomerang and Kurganets based and indeed Typhoon based vehicles that would be used in an operation like this with fast moving mobile forces.

For the russian speakerss here, do you have some russian source about data of tactical missile use like kh-15 or kh-31 ?

It would be nice to know their effectiveness. The bigger cruise missile seems to work perfectly.

Keep in mind, that this process was already started 8 years ago.
Ukro was receiving tons of old WarPac stocks, making those depleted. Hungary provided them with some T-72 and BMP-1 back in 2015.

All that stuff is now 40-50 years old. For example, the last Tochkas were scrapped in Slovakia almost 10 years ago. Even earlier in other states, 20 y/a in Poland and Germany, 15 y/a in Czech. The only European operator that can transfer some of them is Bulgaria, but we talk about several launchers and about 20 missiles in total, and that addresses for older Tochka system, not Tochka-U.

The only serious stock of weapons there is Polish. We can give away a few hundred T-72s (still about 500 are here), and on paper, there are more than 1200 BMP-1.
As for the tanks, I suppose nobody will cry for those, we will still have the number of Germany and France combined ...
But BMPs are still the core of our armored forces. There is nothing to replace those, our genuine Borsuk is not ready for production. And there is no money to buy them in numbers.
Most of that toys were already withdrawn from service, stored, and partially disassembled for spares.
The point is, that even if all ex WarPac members will clean its warehouses to the floor, the number of weapons they can provide is limited, and can't be even compared with the numbers Ukro has at disposal a month ago.
How to deliver those is another part of the equation - those can be easily destroyed on the move, on depots etc. What will be delivered - is far from being battle ready.
So from any perspective, the whole action has more moral rather than practical meaning.

Isos, Ch-15 is taken out of service, besides it was a specialized weapon for Tu-22 and 160. Ch-31 was used, there are some movie materials of that.

Isos, Ch-15 is taken out of service, besides it was a specialized weapon for Tu-22 and 160. Ch-31 was used, there are some movie materials of that

Is it ? It is a very powerfull missile, a mini kinzhal flying at mach 5. IMO they should still have some in reserve for anti radar role.

I saw kh-31 used. I was just wondering if there was some russian pilots interview about their use and how their weaponery fair.

They have also used their air to air missiles it would be nice if they talk a bit more about them. It seems like mig-29 and su-27 were totally outranged and outgunned by su-30/35 armed with r-77-1. In which case it means Russia need to hurry to replace its own su-27 and su-33. They are not good anymore in modern wars.

Isos wrote:For the russian speakerss here, do you have some russian source about data of tactical missile use like kh-15 or kh-31 ?

It would be nice to know their effectiveness. The bigger cruise missile seems to work perfectly.

Go to google translator... Х-31

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjBwoy4non3AhWFjKQKHXS3CVYQFnoECAcQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fmissilery.info%2Fmissile%2Fx31p&usg=AOvVaw20KDgE0WBVQSOT4I1H1zN0

Х-15

https://missilery.info/missile/x15

JohninMK wrote:

kvs wrote:In one of the tweets above we have even a skeptic claiming that Russia is using land mines in Ukraine.
Really?  I have seen not seen a shred of indication that Russian forces are using land mines in Ukraine.
They have no value for Russian forces since Russian forces are not desperately defending against any
serious Kiev regime offensives.   The reference frame in the west is distorted beyond salvation.  

If you are referring to post 842 its the Ukrainians using the mines.

Russia used the Agriculture system around Kharkov.




For the other side, I remember one DPR tank damaged from a mine.

Really? How could such a dumbass become CEO?


Tornado rocket

Ukraine is still to big. But OK. Keep it as a reservation for Nazi thugs and shooting range.