Russian special military operation in Ukraine #11

Colonelcassad is saying there was an attempt by the Ukrainian forces in Mariupol to break out of their encirclement?

On an attempt to break out from Mariupol.

They reset about half of the group that was breaking through, which was trying to break through to the north from Azovmash. The rest, who fled to the building. now they are looking for and cleaning. All equipment of the group was either destroyed or trophied. The road to Volnovakha is closed and may be closed for another 2-3 days until everyone is cleared.

Also a report on the possible transfer of the MGM-140 ATACMS to the Ukraine

Possible deliveries of ballistic missiles to Ukraine is a direct US military aggression against Russia

It seems that Joe Biden has decided to supply not just machine guns, armored vehicles or even air defense systems, but tactical missiles, which, by the way, can theoretically carry a nuclear charge. We are talking about short-range ground-based missiles MGM-140 ATACMS.

The stated goal is to allow Ukraine to strike at military targets in Russia. Knowing the “humanity” of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, all this can threaten with strikes on peaceful Russian cities. The fact that these intentions are serious is confirmed not only by many Ukrainian media and the odious Oleksiy Arestovich, but also by the American CNBS, citing sources in the Pentagon.

This situation not only confirms that the American military-industrial complex considers Ukraine as a priority market, but also that the United States plans to supply missile systems similar to the Tochka-U complexes that were used by the Armed Forces of Ukraine to carry out terrorist attacks in Donetsk and Kramatorsk, as well as intimidation of the population of Russia. Apparently, there are almost no “Points” left in Ukraine and they need an equivalent replacement.

At the same time, the American president himself is already openly saying that he is ready to strike at the Russian Federation with his weapons, but with the hands of Ukrainians. If this is not an all-out world war with Russia, then what is?

And the banquet has opened officially it seems

Belarusian border guards said that the Polish security forces fired on the Belarusian checkpoint Peschatka

More fun

In Slovyansk, the militants of the Terodefense carry out punitive raids in order to check local residents for any signs of pro-Russian views

The reason for the detention is the history of calls with Russian numbers found in the phones, SMS and messenger correspondence condemning the current regime, subscriptions in social networks to Russian channels and others. The detainees are taken away in an unknown direction, subjected to brutal torture, threatened with transfer to the SBU, as well as physical violence against relatives, forced to equip strongholds and checkpoints. To get rid of torment, they extort money in the amount of 500 to 1,000 US dollars. Dozens of detainees never returned home, nothing is known about their fate so far.

Hole wrote:

Podlodka77 wrote:TASS.RU

The largest German defense concern Rheinmetall plans to supply Ukraine with up to 50 used Leopard 1 battle tanks and up to 60 decommissioned Marder infantry fighting vehicles, said the head of the company, Armin Papperger.

Great idea. Nobody trained to use the stuff. No trained mechanics. No spare parts.

Ironically these are probably worse than the T-72s etc in this conflict.

The issues of crew training, mechanic training, availability of parts and of course ammunition aside, late Soviet anti-tank munitions were specifically designed to defeat these tanks in simple head-on engagements. They weren't designed to defeat their own, which are more mobile too.

Even early Leo 2s didn't fare particularly well in Syria.

ALAMO wrote:

flamming_python wrote:And the banquet has opened officially it seems

Belarusian border guards said that the Polish security forces fired on the Belarusian checkpoint Peschatka

Yes.
With a slingshot

Belarus may go ballistic catapult to this provocation.

flamming_python wrote:Also a report on the possible transfer of the MGM-140 ATACMS to the Ukraine

Possible deliveries of ballistic missiles to Ukraine is a direct US military aggression against Russia

It seems that Joe Biden has decided to supply not just machine guns, armored vehicles or even air defense systems, but tactical missiles, which, by the way, can theoretically carry a nuclear charge. We are talking about short-range ground-based missiles MGM-140 ATACMS.

The stated goal is to allow Ukraine to strike at military targets in Russia. Knowing the “humanity” of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, all this can threaten with strikes on peaceful Russian cities. The fact that these intentions are serious is confirmed not only by many Ukrainian media and the odious Oleksiy Arestovich, but also by the American CNBS, citing sources in the Pentagon.

This situation not only confirms that the American military-industrial complex considers Ukraine as a priority market, but also that the United States plans to supply missile systems similar to the Tochka-U complexes that were used by the Armed Forces of Ukraine to carry out terrorist attacks in Donetsk and Kramatorsk, as well as intimidation of the population of Russia. Apparently, there are almost no “Points” left in Ukraine and they need an equivalent replacement.

At the same time, the American president himself is already openly saying that he is ready to strike at the Russian Federation with his weapons, but with the hands of Ukrainians. If this is not an all-out world war with Russia, then what is?

Hopefully Russia captures some of these. But instead, like the S-300 from Slovakia, these will be destroyed so fast.

But captured ones would be great.

Honestly, I think that Russia should conduct a real nuclear test.
I wonder if 3 to 4 of these are enough to contaminate the whole of Germany. Just a hypothetical question, nothing more.

ALAMO wrote:

flamming_python wrote:And the banquet has opened officially it seems

Belarusian border guards said that the Polish security forces fired on the Belarusian checkpoint Peschatka

Yes.
With a slingshot

They're testing the waters

Next time it will be a catapult

I hope our fuckers in power know what they're doing.
Because the way it looks like they've been blindsided into an escalation towards WW3
And the Europeans are full of their own propaganda about the crumbling Russian army, about how all its missiles are spent now and whatever else. It'll be a pushover and they'll sign up in droves.

Truth is though I wouldn't be surprised if our command did spend half its missiles on the Ukraine alone, without figuring out that things can escalate a lot further

The one bit of light is that some dude I know only through 3 people who works at some metallurgical enterprise received work orders along the lines of 'Evacuation to the Urals!' as soon as the war began. So it seems at least some things were being taken seriously right from the beginning.

It's about time to start resurrecting all those tank armies from the 80s, and better yet from the 40s.
T-64s, T-72s, T-80s - all with rapid upgrades. Preferably robotization where possible. But at a minimum; optics, FCS, shells, ERA and a cheap APS
BMP-1s/2s - rapid upgrades; Bakcha-U turret and cheap APS
BTR-80s - upgrade to BTR-80A standard or BTR-82 if possible
Mothballed Su-27s, MiG-29s - get 'em flyin'! Upgrades to avionics and compatibility with modern missiles, some new cheap radars.
Self-propelled artillery of every variety - integration with GLONASS and modern communication means
Copy some Ukrainian tactics too with artillery spotting paired with even old D-30 howitzers
Grounded Mi-24s of all varieties - upgrade to Mi-35 standard if possible, get em flying
Transfer old BMD-1s/2s to newly formed light infantry units
Kh-15s - dust them off
S-300Ps in storage - see what you can do with them.
T-62s/BTR-70s/other older gear - find a use for their chassis, maybe as prime movers or engineering vehicles

I wonder how close Russia or other parties are to picking up the phone to Iran, Al Qaeda or some similar lot.
With the target being the US mainland?

America is attacking Russia. But Russia isn't defending itself from America.
Its simply striking the Pukraine.

Clearly America is continuining to escalate and desecrate the memory of the previous 27 million Russian victims of Nazism.
Putin's words "America is the number one sponsor of terrorism in the world" is looking ever more succinct and accurate.

Russia strikes ISIS in Syria and Al Qaeda in Afghanistan for attacking Russia.
Is America any different to those terrorist groups?

flamming_python wrote:

Broski wrote:

flamming_python wrote:And Putin's fault, to be honest.

Of course, it's always Putin's fault. 

Putin and all his people who planned this fk-up of an operation, and didn't manage to avoid this war in the first place

It's Putin's fault that NATO+Banderistan was hell bent on starting a war with Russia and finally got their wish. You really are a piece of sh*t, flamming.

No it's Putin's fault that he didn't outsmart them

And that when he couldn't, he wasn't smart enough to figure out and counter their strategies. Instead now we get all this.

Bullshit, the only options Putin had where to surrender or to fight. He tried everything else but the West is both desperate of losing world domination and relentless in it's desire to subject Russia. The West has never been your friend nor do they ever desire to be your friend. They only want to subject Russia, break it up into small controllable countries and rob it's resources. That's the facts... and this from a Anglo Saxon.

Very good analysis from Scott Ritter about phase 2 and phase 3 from an Russian and Ukrainian perspective.

Iran is busy busting Israel's balls, they have no time for the US right now and hope they won't be targeted next
Serbia folded
Argentina folded
China's chilling
India's looking out for number one
Kazakhstan is hedging bets
Pakistan is knocked out of the fight before it even began; lightweights

Yeah, we're by ourselves in this one. Well us and Lukashenko.

Isos wrote:US is poisoning its own waters for decades. Las Vegas has already emptied a big lake. Next US wars will be for water and it will be in Canada. Just a matter of time before they considere Trudeua as a bloody dictator.

I went to Las Vegas in 2018 and a water bottle on the strip was $3.50 US dollars. This was a 500ml water bottle.

Dr.Snufflebug wrote:
These aren't "tanks", they're old BMP-1s from the 70s.

Germany sold off old DDR stock mega cheap to Sweden in 1994, they had been stored in outdoor yards for ages and were seriously rusty and everything, so Sweden had to renovate them. Sweden also removed the steel armor skirts and replaced them with rubber, they removed the AT-3 system and the cannon autoloader too.

Ten years later, Sweden withdrew them from service and sold them to a Czech company who re-sold some to Iraq without German approval, causing a minor scandal.

There were several reports spread on Telegram, veracity unknown, that the Ukrainians found these  BMP-1s to be in near unusuable condition and that some required spare parts could only be obtained from Russia.

Sloppy seconds, or rather fifths (USSR, DDR, Sweden, Czechia and finally Ukraine).

To be honest, these things just kind of indicate that nobody is interested in Ukraine winning/Russia losing, nor that they give a wooden nickel about Ukrainian lives or the future of Ukraine. It's just to prolong the conflict, for the sake of conflict, milking it for what it's worth. Fight Russia until the last Ukrainian.

Then, once that's done, as that famous saying goes: "topple all the pieces, shit all over the board and call it a victory". And at home they'll buy it.

flamming_python wrote:
Because the way it looks like they've been blindsided into an escalation towards WW3
And the Europeans are full of their own propaganda about the crumbling Russian army, about how all its missiles are spent now and whatever else. It'll be a pushover and they'll sign up in droves.

Good thing is that the offensive potential of NATO is way lesser than that of Nazis during Barbarosa, If you think the Russian army faced difficulties in Ukraine, imagine what would combined NATO armies would face.

As expected the Russia strong crowd of this forum believes that NATO is not sending MBTs to Ukraine because they can be targeted by ATGMs apart from Russian tanks. It's not that easy.

Rheinmetall's ADS can be fitted on any Western tanks, IFVs. ADS works by having a series of modules mounted around the vehicle. Each has a prewarner (PW) that detects a threat, an EO sensor that times the initiation, and an explosive countermeasure (CM) that fires into the path of the threat and destroys it.

Unlike 'deployed' APS like Trophy or Iron Fist (pictured) that fire their own projectile(s) at the threat, the ADS defeat is really close in, less than a metre, by use of a directional charge.

One key benefit on ADS is its ability to deal with close range attacks. Because a deployed system has to slew a launcher and fire a round, it has a slower response time. That manifests as a bigger area around the vehicle where it just doesn't work.

Another factor is emissions: deployed systems need to detect the threats at greater range and so use more powerful radars to sweep for them. These are detectable at some range (400-500km vs 6km for a distributed system like ADS), and impact the bigger picture survivability.

RTN wrote:As expected the Russia strong crowd of this forum believes that NATO is not sending MBTs to Ukraine because they can be targeted by ATGMs apart from Russian tanks. It's not that easy.

Rheinmetall's ADS can be fitted on any Western tanks, IFVs. ADS works by having a series of modules mounted around the vehicle. Each has a prewarner (PW) that detects a threat, an EO sensor that times the initiation, and an explosive countermeasure (CM) that fires into the path of the threat and destroys it.

Unlike 'deployed' APS like Trophy or Iron Fist (pictured) that fire their own projectile(s) at the threat, the ADS defeat is really close in, less than a metre, by use of a directional charge.

One key benefit on ADS is its ability to deal with close range attacks. Because a deployed system has to slew a launcher and fire a round, it has a slower response time. That manifests as a bigger area around the vehicle where it just doesn't work.

Another factor is emissions: deployed systems need to detect the threats at greater range and so use more powerful radars to sweep for them. These are detectable at some range (400-500km vs 6km for a distributed system like ADS), and impact the bigger picture survivability.

No, the Russia strong crowd (which is the whole forum) believes that NATO is not sending its own MBTs to the Ukraine because it doesn't want to run the risk of having its wunderwaffen's invincibility shield being shattered for domestic audiences. It will hurt morale.

That and Russia perhaps getting ahold of some sensitive technology

That's pretty much it. I can respect the arguments about Ukrainian troops not being trained on these systems, and them requiring specific logistics and so on too. Sure, those are all difficulties. Either way, it amounts to none of Rheinmettalls whatever in the Ukraine so far and prospectively. They're up to Leo 1s and Marders at this point; I think anything newer won't make much sense. And won't make a difference anyway - as chances are these systems will be small in number, and will get taken out by a cruise missile at their storage site or airpower as they're coming up to the battlefield anyway.

Hole wrote:

Tolstoy wrote:Both Russia and Ukro nazis are doubling down on artillery fire. Artillery fire seems to have helped Russia target enemy armoured columns.

2S1 Gvozdika artillery is pounding Ukrainian armored columns.

The 155 mm artillery munition that impact within 30 meters of a target is causing a lot of damage. damage. Air bursts using variable time (VT) fuse or dual-purpose improved conventional munitions (DPICM) can strip away communications, sights, vision blocks and anything stored on the outside of the vehicle.

Artillery rounds is causing similar damage to the top section of  MBTs that top attack ATGMs like Javelin can do.

2S1 is a 122mm gun.

155mm is NATO caliber. Russia uses 152mm (2S3, 2S5, 2S19).

Yes of course 2S1 is 122mm.

Media seems to be suggesting that tanks belonging to both Russia and Ukraine are being destroyed almost exclusively by ATGMs. That's far from the truth.That's why I was highlighting the role of artillery regardless of whether it is 122mm or 155mm/152mm in destroying enemy armoured convoys.

flamming_python wrote:Also a report on the possible transfer of the MGM-140 ATACMS to the Ukraine

These things are no better then obsoleted Russian systems from 40 years ago. Maybe a bit more accurate at best.

Tolstoy wrote:

Hole wrote:

Tolstoy wrote:Both Russia and Ukro nazis are doubling down on artillery fire. Artillery fire seems to have helped Russia target enemy armoured columns.

2S1 Gvozdika artillery is pounding Ukrainian armored columns.

The 155 mm artillery munition that impact within 30 meters of a target is causing a lot of damage. damage. Air bursts using variable time (VT) fuse or dual-purpose improved conventional munitions (DPICM) can strip away communications, sights, vision blocks and anything stored on the outside of the vehicle.

Artillery rounds is causing similar damage to the top section of  MBTs that top attack ATGMs like Javelin can do.

2S1 is a 122mm gun.

155mm is NATO caliber. Russia uses 152mm (2S3, 2S5, 2S19).

Yes of course 2S1 is 122mm.

Media seems to be suggesting that tanks belonging to both Russia and Ukraine are being destroyed almost exclusively by ATGMs. That's far from the truth.That's why I was highlighting the role of artillery regardless of whether it is 122mm or 155mm/152mm in destroying enemy armoured convoys.

The Ukraine had about 2500 armored vehicles prior to the start of the conflict. That's tanks and BMPs. 2000 taken out so far. Most from afar. Relatively few by actual other tanks or ATGMs; unless you count helicopter ATGMs which I presume destroyed a fair amount.