Some Terminator heavy IFVs have been spotted on traincarts heading towards Ukraine.
BMPT Terminator is specifically designed for urban warfare. Don't know if 2 or -3 (the former is more numerous and very potent, latter is in very limited service but has a vastly superior survivability vs all kinds of RPGs, ATGMs etc thanks to Afganit APS).
Anyway, since Mariupol is a done deal, it has to be Kharkov these are meant for.
Last edited by Dr.Snufflebug on Mon Apr 11, 2022 7:08 pm; edited 2 times in total
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RTN wrote:As expected the Russia strong crowd of this forum believes that NATO is not sending MBTs to Ukraine because they can be targeted by ATGMs apart from Russian tanks. It's not that easy.
Rheinmetall's ADS can be fitted on any Western tanks, IFVs. ADS works by having a series of modules mounted around the vehicle. Each has a prewarner (PW) that detects a threat, an EO sensor that times the initiation, and an explosive countermeasure (CM) that fires into the path of the threat and destroys it.
Unlike 'deployed' APS like Trophy or Iron Fist (pictured) that fire their own projectile(s) at the threat, the ADS defeat is really close in, less than a metre, by use of a directional charge.
One key benefit on ADS is its ability to deal with close range attacks. Because a deployed system has to slew a launcher and fire a round, it has a slower response time. That manifests as a bigger area around the vehicle where it just doesn't work.
Another factor is emissions: deployed systems need to detect the threats at greater range and so use more powerful radars to sweep for them. These are detectable at some range (400-500km vs 6km for a distributed system like ADS), and impact the bigger picture survivability.
Hey bro...stop sniffing too much cocaine! Not healthy for the brain.
Rheinmetall AMAP-ADS has only been tested on prototypes so far. Not a single system has ever been sold to any army!
Trophy APS will be equipped from 2023 to some tanks of the german Leopard 2 fleet. USA has 400 systems equipped so far.
The Russians are shitting their pants in fear!
Last edited by Azi on Mon Apr 11, 2022 7:14 pm; edited 2 times in total
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RTN wrote:As expected the Russia strong crowd of this forum believes that NATO is not sending MBTs to Ukraine because they can be targeted by ATGMs apart from Russian tanks. It's not that easy.
Rheinmetall's ADS can be fitted on any Western tanks, IFVs. ADS works by having a series of modules mounted around the vehicle. Each has a prewarner (PW) that detects a threat, an EO sensor that times the initiation, and an explosive countermeasure (CM) that fires into the path of the threat and destroys it.
Unlike 'deployed' APS like Trophy or Iron Fist (pictured) that fire their own projectile(s) at the threat, the ADS defeat is really close in, less than a metre, by use of a directional charge.
One key benefit on ADS is its ability to deal with close range attacks. Because a deployed system has to slew a launcher and fire a round, it has a slower response time. That manifests as a bigger area around the vehicle where it just doesn't work.
Another factor is emissions: deployed systems need to detect the threats at greater range and so use more powerful radars to sweep for them. These are detectable at some range (400-500km vs 6km for a distributed system like ADS), and impact the bigger picture survivability.
Hey bro...stop sniffing too much cocaine!
Rheinmetall AMAP-ADS has only been tested on prototypes so far. Not a single system has ever been sold to any army!
Trophy APS will be equipped from 2023 to some tanks of the Leopard 2 fleet. USA has 400 systems equipped so far.
The Russians are shitting their pants in fear!
The USSR pioneered APS systems, both soft- and hard kill ditto.
It's not like this is some new western wunderwaffen magic.
But it seems to be irrelevant anyway, given that actual field application is rare or non-existent. Pretty sure USSR used some in Afghanistan already back in the 80's, retrofitted to otherwise more vulnerable T-54/55s, but am no expert.
Last edited by Dr.Snufflebug on Mon Apr 11, 2022 7:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Tolstoy wrote:Both Russia and Ukro nazis are doubling down on artillery fire. Artillery fire seems to have helped Russia target enemy armoured columns.
2S1 Gvozdika artillery is pounding Ukrainian armored columns.
The 155 mm artillery munition that impact within 30 meters of a target is causing a lot of damage. damage. Air bursts using variable time (VT) fuse or dual-purpose improved conventional munitions (DPICM) can strip away communications, sights, vision blocks and anything stored on the outside of the vehicle.
Artillery rounds is causing similar damage to the top section of MBTs that top attack ATGMs like Javelin can do.
2S1 is a 122mm gun.
155mm is NATO caliber. Russia uses 152mm (2S3, 2S5, 2S19).
Yes of course 2S1 is 122mm.
Media seems to be suggesting that tanks belonging to both Russia and Ukraine are being destroyed almost exclusively by ATGMs. That's far from the truth.That's why I was highlighting the role of artillery regardless of whether it is 122mm or 155mm/152mm in destroying enemy armoured convoys.
According to WIKI Ukraine has (had?) more 2S1s then Russia!!. 638!! The amphibious capability of this machine makes it pretty versatile.
The largest German defense concern Rheinmetall plans to supply Ukraine with up to 50 used Leopard 1 battle tanks and up to 60 decommissioned Marder infantry fighting vehicles, said the head of the company, Armin Papperger.
Great idea. Nobody trained to use the stuff. No trained mechanics. No spare parts.
The Russians can use them as useful targets in the next Zapad.
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Dr.Snufflebug wrote:Some Terminator heavy IFVs have been spotted on traincarts heading towards Ukraine.
BMPT Terminator is specifically designed for urban warfare. Don't know if 2 or -3 (the former is more numerous and very potent, latter is in very limited service but has a vastly superior survivability vs all kinds of RPGs, ATGMs etc thanks to Afganit APS).
Anyway, since Mariupol is a done deal, it has to be Kharkov these are meant for.
flamming_python wrote:And Putin's fault, to be honest.
Of course, it's always Putin's fault.
Putin and all his people who planned this fk-up of an operation, and didn't manage to avoid this war in the first place
It's Putin's fault that NATO+Banderistan was hell bent on starting a war with Russia and finally got their wish. You really are a piece of sh*t, flamming.
No it's Putin's fault that he didn't outsmart them
And that when he couldn't, he wasn't smart enough to figure out and counter their strategies. Instead now we get all this.
Putin did make some mistakes, in 2014 he shoulda completely wiped out the Ukraine military sent to the Donbass. That, in hindsight was a mistake. In spite of her treachery he still had a soft spot for Merkel. Zelensky is hugely to blame here, he was unable (or unwilling $$) to maneuver Ukraine out of the sacrificial alter the US had prepared for it. Now the US is saying "burn baby burn".
Tolstoy wrote:Both Russia and Ukro nazis are doubling down on artillery fire. Artillery fire seems to have helped Russia target enemy armoured columns.
2S1 Gvozdika artillery is pounding Ukrainian armored columns.
The 155 mm artillery munition that impact within 30 meters of a target is causing a lot of damage. damage. Air bursts using variable time (VT) fuse or dual-purpose improved conventional munitions (DPICM) can strip away communications, sights, vision blocks and anything stored on the outside of the vehicle.
Artillery rounds is causing similar damage to the top section of MBTs that top attack ATGMs like Javelin can do.
2S1 is a 122mm gun.
155mm is NATO caliber. Russia uses 152mm (2S3, 2S5, 2S19).
Yes of course 2S1 is 122mm.
Media seems to be suggesting that tanks belonging to both Russia and Ukraine are being destroyed almost exclusively by ATGMs. That's far from the truth.That's why I was highlighting the role of artillery regardless of whether it is 122mm or 155mm/152mm in destroying enemy armoured convoys.
The Ukraine had about 2500 armored vehicles prior to the start of the conflict. That's tanks and BMPs. 2000 taken out so far. Most from afar. Relatively few by actual other tanks or ATGMs; unless you count helicopter ATGMs which I presume destroyed a fair amount.
On this forum, only that Americunt RTN believes in fairy tales about western made weapons. All Western tanks are over 40-year-old platforms, and it is difficult to turn a grandmother into a girl. This also applies to the T-72, T-80 or T-90, of course, but not to the T-14. Even Leopard 2, Leclerc, etc. would not help Ukraine, nor would these tanks help France and Germany. First of all, there are very few of them, and the "famous" Leopard 2 did not show itself very famously in Syria in its first baptism of fire, where at least 10 tanks were lost. Yes, in the West, they immediately started talking about the Leopard 2 A4 variant used in Syria. So what ? Soviet T-72 tanks have been fighting in various conflicts for decades, often against a much stronger opponent, and the latest Russian modifications are quite solid, although only the T-90M has undergone very expensive modernization. And that is the Western story that has lasted for CENTURIES; "We are superior, invincible, while the rest are subhumans, etc.", and then they go east and smoke Russian sausage ...
Last edited by Podlodka77 on Mon Apr 11, 2022 7:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Dr.Snufflebug wrote:Some Terminator heavy IFVs have been spotted on traincarts heading towards Ukraine.
BMPT Terminator is specifically designed for urban warfare. Don't know if 2 or -3 (the former is more numerous and very potent, latter is in very limited service but has a vastly superior survivability vs all kinds of RPGs, ATGMs etc thanks to Afganit APS).
Anyway, since Mariupol is a done deal, it has to be Kharkov these are meant for.
Maybe Slavyansk/Kramatorsk
Quite possible too, but several lines of heavily reinforced, dug-in UA positions remain there. Kharkov is more or less surrounded already.
BTW, Afganit (if deployed) uses both AESA radars and multispectral optics to detect incoming munitions, and can use radiofrequency jamming, laser dazzling, laser/IR blocking smoke shells, terminal hard-kill "shotgun shells" (boxes of these are visible on the Armata platforms, both horizontal and vertical for top-attack ATGMs) and it can even take control over the HMG and use proximity-fuzed ammo to defeat them, depending on the nature of the threat. It turns the auxiliary HMG into an automated CIWS.
It's just 7 years old or so, and to date RU hasn't deployed many weapons newer than 10-ish years old (Korsar and Orion, Kinzhal only?) but it is a *very* clever and versatile protection system.
Still, probably it's the "old' Terminator, and the impressive APS remains cool in brochures but stays out of it for now, much like the aforementioned western ditto.
Last edited by Dr.Snufflebug on Mon Apr 11, 2022 7:39 pm; edited 4 times in total
The largest German defense concern Rheinmetall plans to supply Ukraine with up to 50 used Leopard 1 battle tanks and up to 60 decommissioned Marder infantry fighting vehicles, said the head of the company, Armin Papperger.
Great idea. Nobody trained to use the stuff. No trained mechanics. No spare parts.
This is the great EU weapons garage sale!!!!. Get EUROs and US$ for your junk. Send it east to good ol Mr. Z and he will load it up with hapless nazi patriots and send it to Uncle P's recycling machine!! Turn your useless junk into EUROS!!! (Offer only valid while Ukraine lasts )
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RTN, i have a question for you !!!!!????? If American weapons are so great and fabulous, then why is America planning to retire the heir while returning his predecessor?
Brother, you live in an empire of lies.
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According to reports a command post in this area had an unexpected meeting with Mr. Kinzhal. Buchenwald memorial. Flag of Belarus removed and replaaced with the Nazi collaborator flag.
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There are rumors, that China is sending weapons to Serbia. According to rumors, there are 5-6 military transport aircraft full of weapons. This is just a rumor, my gut feeling is that it is not true but it is something we need to keep an eye on because US and its vassals are planning on opening another front.
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Podlodka77 wrote:RTN, i have a question for you !!!!!????? If American weapons are so great and fabulous, then why is America planning to retire the heir while returning his predecessor?
Brother, you live in an empire of lies.
Ask him why his own military behind close doors confessed that they got no tool against russian AD and EW systems and that a russian batallion has more artillery firepower then a american brigade.
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Hole wrote: Buchenwald memorial. Flag of Belarus removed and replaaced with the Nazi collaborator flag.
Seriously, is this true?
These pics don´t lie. Sad but true.
The MFA of Belarus summoned the German ambassador about the flag replacement, "With these actions, it is the German side that proactively damages the long-term joint efforts for mutual reconciliation between the peoples of the two countries."
par far wrote:There are rumors, that China is sending weapons to Serbia. According to rumors, there are 5-6 military transport aircraft full of weapons. This is just a rumor, my gut feeling is that it is not true but it is something we need to keep an eye on because US and its vassals are planning on opening another front.
Yes, for several days now, large Chinese Xian Y-20 transport planes have been landing in Belgrade. It seems that FK-3 SAM was delivered.
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par far wrote:There are rumors, that China is sending weapons to Serbia. According to rumors, there are 5-6 military transport aircraft full of weapons. This is just a rumor, my gut feeling is that it is not true but it is something we need to keep an eye on because US and its vassals are planning on opening another front.
I heard of HQ-22 AD systems.
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par far wrote:There are rumors, that China is sending weapons to Serbia. According to rumors, there are 5-6 military transport aircraft full of weapons. This is just a rumor, my gut feeling is that it is not true but it is something we need to keep an eye on because US and its vassals are planning on opening another front.
I heard of HQ-22 AD systems.
We bought an export variant of the HQ-22 system called FK-3 and it has slightly weaker characteristics. And who will ever find out what kind of missiles we bought, because the Chinese may have sent us their variant that has a final horizontal range of up to 170 km. FK-3 has a final range of up to 100 km.
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Hole wrote: Buchenwald memorial. Flag of Belarus removed and replaaced with the Nazi collaborator flag.
Seriously, is this true?
These pics don´t lie. Sad but true.
The MFA of Belarus summoned the German ambassador about the flag replacement, "With these actions, it is the German side that proactively damages the long-term joint efforts for mutual reconciliation between the peoples of the two countries."
What a middle finger to all the hundreds of thousands of Belarusians, both Jews and Slavs, who were massacred under this Nazi collaborationist banner, many of whom probably met their end at this very concentration camp. Apart from the ones killed on the spot, or murdered in other camps.
Disgusting.
"Come and see" should be required viewing for these morons. The Nazi and Nazi collaborationist crimes in Belarus are second only to Ukraine's ditto. Though they took a heavier toll on BLR, procentually.
But now we should celebrate these systematic mass murderers, yep. EU countries have lost the plot completely.
Last edited by Dr.Snufflebug on Mon Apr 11, 2022 8:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Some may think I'm crazy, but I would prefer rather Serbia to order and buy Chinese Chengdu J-10s instead of French Rafale planes. The Rafale is a good plane, but like any other weapon system from the West, it is overestimated and of questionable value. At least the Chinese will never blackmail us, while in the future, if Serbia bothers the West again, there could be another ban on the export of spare parts, modernization of airplanes, sale of missiles and bombs, etc. And after all, the J-10 in the latter variants also has AESA radars.
Either way, I would love the Su-75 the most. But well, what can we do. The Rafale plane, like most fourth-generation planes, will be garbage in the next decade.
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Dr.Snufflebug wrote:Some Terminator heavy IFVs have been spotted on traincarts heading towards Ukraine.
BMPT Terminator is specifically designed for urban warfare. Don't know if 2 or -3 (the former is more numerous and very potent, latter is in very limited service but has a vastly superior survivability vs all kinds of RPGs, ATGMs etc thanks to Afganit APS).
Anyway, since Mariupol is a done deal, it has to be Kharkov these are meant for.
Maybe Slavyansk/Kramatorsk
Quite possible too, but several lines of heavily reinforced, dug-in UA positions remain there. Kharkov is more or less surrounded already.
BTW, Afganit (if deployed) uses both AESA radars and multispectral optics to detect incoming munitions, and can use radiofrequency jamming, laser dazzling, laser/IR blocking smoke shells, terminal hard-kill "shotgun shells" (boxes of these are visible on the Armata platforms, both horizontal and vertical for top-attack ATGMs) and it can even take control over the HMG and use proximity-fuzed ammo to defeat them, depending on the nature of the threat. It turns the auxiliary HMG into an automated CIWS.
It's just 7 years old or so, and to date RU hasn't deployed many weapons newer than 10-ish years old (Korsar and Orion, Kinzhal only?) but it is a *very* clever and versatile protection system.
Still, probably it's the "old' Terminator, and the impressive APS remains cool in brochures but stays out of it for now, much like the aforementioned western ditto.
Russia needs to outsource the production of the Arena and some other last-gen tech to China
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flamming_python
FK-3 has a final range of up to 100 km.
But well, what can we do. 
