Russian special military operation in Ukraine #11

kvs wrote:Why is this supposed to be some sort of major embarrassment?   Even if it was an accident and not a mine, missile or sabotage it would
still be a non-trivial risk.   Are all the jet crashes also major "embarrassments".   People should stop living in pulp fiction reality.  

The most important thing is that most of the sailors were saved.   If their rescue was f*cked up, then that would be unforgivable.

Scorpius wrote:

Podlodka77 wrote:

Scorpius wrote:

Podlodka77 wrote:It's time for tactical nuclear strikes.

Do you have no relatives in Ukraine? I have. And many have. are you suggesting a nuclear strike on our relatives?

Western Ukraine

The place where my relatives live. Or do you think that there is no ethnically Russian population in Western Ukraine?

flamming_python wrote:

If the landing vessels can no longer be supported then the Ukrainians are free to redeploy the rest of their forces around Odessa to the Kherson-Nikolayev line.

flamming_python wrote:What if the Americans are playing it down because they ordered it?

limb wrote:

kvs wrote:Why is this supposed to be some sort of major embarrassment?   Even if it was an accident and not a mine, missile or sabotage it would
still be a non-trivial risk.   Are all the jet crashes also major "embarrassments".   People should stop living in pulp fiction reality.  

The most important thing is that most of the sailors were saved.   If their rescue was f*cked up, then that would be unforgivable.

Cope

PapaDragon wrote:

flamming_python wrote:What if the Americans are playing it down because they ordered it?

What difference does it make?

Like I said before, if Russia managed to have their ship hit by Ukrainian missile then Russia didn’t deserve to have that ship in the first place

Now with it sinking to the bottom we won't know if it was hit by a missile or a mine so Ukrainians get to decide what happened and they say it was the missile

PapaDragon wrote:


So I don't want to hear anything more about ''Ukrainian fighting skills'' or any similar bullshit, nothing changed since 50 days ago other that Russians deciding to softball this entire project




(And before anyone goes off about ''NATO training'' please spare me, over here we went hard and heavy on that magical NATO training with only result being that unit quality deteriorated and we spent past decade trying to fix that crap, only new thing NATO training gives you is ability to use cool stickers on your shit)

flamming_python wrote:

And once again, all thanks to the dickheads who thought it was a good idea to leave the Moskva without support and in general not take threats too seriously.
All thanks to them. Essentially a strategic-level failure. Now the conflict will take more lives and go on for longer. A general collapse of Ukrainian morale and mass surrenders is a lot further away. Truly, I'm amazed at the implications.

Erk wrote:MOSCOW (Sputnik) - Russia's Moskva missile cruiser, the flagship of the Russian Black Sea Fleet, has been hit be heavy fire and the following detonation of ammunition, the Russian Defense Ministry said on Thursday.
"As result of the fire that hit the Moskva missile cruiser, the ammunition has detonated. The ship has been seriously damaged," the ministry said in a statement.

https://sputniknews.com/20220413/russias-moskva-missile-cruiser-seriously-damaged-by-fire-blast-of-ammunition-ministry-says-1094745904.html
https://sputniknews.com/20220414/russian-defense-ministry-damaged-moskva-cruiser-sunk-after-entering-stormy-waters-1094769157.html

Sounds like a missile strike to me, or some other offensive weapon.

limb wrote:

zorobabel wrote:

limb wrote:This a huge embarrassment. How does a localized ammo detonation cause a ship to sink? Also the black sea has quite small waves, never exceeding 4m . Its storms are minor compared to oceanic storms.

More likely to be a mine or missile strike than an ammo detonation. Yes, there was a fire, but the cause of the fire was never indicated.

A missile strike is more embarrassing since the Neptune is subsonic.

PapaDragon wrote:

flamming_python wrote:What if the Americans are playing it down because they ordered it?

What difference does it make?

Like I said before, if Russia managed to have their ship hit by Ukrainian missile then Russia didn’t deserve to have that ship in the first place

Now with it sinking to the bottom we won't know if it was hit by a missile or a mine so Ukrainians get to decide what happened and they say it was the missile

mnztr wrote:

limb wrote:

zorobabel wrote:

limb wrote:This a huge embarrassment. How does a localized ammo detonation cause a ship to sink? Also the black sea has quite small waves, never exceeding 4m . Its storms are minor compared to oceanic storms.

More likely to be a mine or missile strike than an ammo detonation. Yes, there was a fire, but the cause of the fire was never indicated.

A missile strike is more embarrassing since the Neptune is subsonic.

Just cos its subsonic does not make it useless. Its still a formidable missile.

kvs wrote:Why is this supposed to be some sort of major embarrassment?   Even if it was an accident and not a mine, missile or sabotage it would
still be a non-trivial risk.   Are all the jet crashes also major "embarrassments".   People should stop living in pulp fiction reality.  

The most important thing is that most of the sailors were saved.   If their rescue was f*cked up, then that would be unforgivable.

mr_hd wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:


So I don't want to hear anything more about ''Ukrainian fighting skills'' or any similar bullshit, nothing changed since 50 days ago other that Russians deciding to softball this entire project




(And before anyone goes off about ''NATO training'' please spare me, over here we went hard and heavy on that magical NATO training with only result being that unit quality deteriorated and we spent past decade trying to fix that crap, only new thing NATO training gives you is ability to use cool stickers on your shit)

I think you are wrong. First Russian army is capable but it is defense army that was never designed to do real power projection on such scale that is front line in Ukraine. Second millions of Russians do have relatives in Ukraine which does not make big motivation for Russian soldiers.

Regarding Ukranian training, Ukraine went way more into acquiring practical knowledge and experiences aside of NATO programs. For example they went to Croatia years ago and asked war veterans to give lectures to their forces and pass knowledge. They have very cleaver and creative command...and are super motivated, their survival as nation is at stake and those are people that have Cossacks as ancestors...that survived Hitler and Stalin...all those factors are real...