Russian special military operation in Ukraine #12

caveat emptor wrote:

Podlodka77 wrote:How come you two, FP and Arkhangelsk, are not ashamed to be humiliated here? Unbelievers and cowards have no place in military forums. These worms like RTN and LIMB delight with your comments. They and people like them want to see some Russians whining. Do you have any pride, you piece of shit? You believe in Western propaganda, and you urinate on Russia and Putin yourself.

Why, because of a 40-year-old ship and several planes? Idiots, in our country, GYPSIES jumped and made fun on the destroyed F-117 ! YES, THAT MIRACLE OF AMERICAN TECHNOLOGY, which was withdrawn from use only 7 years after the Aggression on the FRY. That's why they pull the F-22, because it's a bucket that's only good for movies.

Their compatriots are dying. Criticising government doesn't mean they are against theor country. It only mean they are not happy with how government performs under circumstances. And, Russia is not Putin. Same like Milosevic wasn't Serbia. I, personally, didn't like the ****, but that didn't stop me from serving the army.
Nobody should close eyes to their mistakes. And strategic mistakes, which Ru government made are the worst kind and most costly.  They not only cost lives, but lower the morale of troops in the field. You should remember complete absence of strategic goals during our war with Croatia. My older brother was stuck in Karlovac barracks with his unit for three months, and they were losing men daily,  due to some botched belief of JNA officers that still believed in brotherhood and unity.
To get back to Russia, I'll give Putin credit where it is due, but on Ukraine he's been mostly wrong and his actions were just reactions to US moves.

JohninMK wrote:

par far wrote:

I don't know how old you are but by reading your posts you seem like 15-16 years old.

So, 9 years old when he joined this forum. Truly impressive.

flamming_python wrote:Really no evidence for 10 Ka-52 (at most 3), or 10 Su-25 (1-2 but more could have been downed over friendly territory)

BTW, to make you happier Arkhangelsk, here is a T-72 which survived 3 NLAW or Javelin hits

https://t.me/boris_rozhin/42787

Here is one that survived a mine

https://t.me/boris_rozhin/42758

About mobilization, etc.. yes it's probably necessary, but doing it immediately and full-on is very risky. It would lead to large losses from ambushes against reservist troops with no combat experience, which will all be recorded and photographed, fueling Ukrainian propaganda about destroying the Russian army. And that will hamper Russian morale as well.

Instead it's necessary to do it gradually as what is being done in fact. Steady formation of new brigades & battalions, rotation of volunteers and professional fighters, with those who finished a tour being assigned to form the core of new brigades, that will be manned partially by reservists, and partially by fresh volunteers. So a low key partial mobilization in other words, and performed only slowly.
Advances should be measured. For now the Ukrainians and NATO are throwing a whole bunch of cannon fodder against gained Russian positions where all artillery and air defenses are already deployed.
It's necessary to keep the special operation name, with its crusading aims of demilitarization and denazification, and keep to the aim of surrounding the Donbass grouping and forcing its surrender. This will cause huge morale blows and more support amongst part of the Ukrainian population for the Russian mission, helping with intel or joining the fight.

flamming_python wrote:

Podlodka77 wrote:
Dude, I would "sink" all your teeth !!!
Look at this, you stinker, I've been following you and that stink RTN for days, I'd break you both! You would sink like Bismarck if I were in front of you.
There is nothing for a coward like you two and those whiners FP and Arkahangelsk to write! Fool, Russia has entered a war that the United States did not enter since the Vietnam War era. Come on, let them bring their aircraft carriers in front of the Russian borders, so let's see. The same goes for Arleigh Burke destroyers.

Allah Akbar!

Dude relax a bit. You're in agony over the humiliation vis-a-vis the Moskva. That's understandable. But yes there will be losses in war, and even displays of basic incompetence, not every officer deserves his post or can display the required level of proficiency in a crisis. It's important to accept that and move on, confident that the loss is not fatal and the naval plans will be adjusted. I posted about the Moskva and I don't share the opinion that it's loss is only symbolic - it was a key vessel in the Black Sea fleet and its anti-air and anti-ship strike power as well as its command functions. But nevermind, it's replacement for the BSF flagship role will be a helicopter carrier and those are already on the way.

And yes the failed political-military strategies and plenty of other mistakes by the leadership we've been over here in this forum.
It's naive to assume the enemy doesn't make mistakes either. They were planning a bank run in Russia, not a long war, but a short one until dissent kicks in here and the economy seizes up. Now that they have a long war on their hands, they're suddenly going back on their words about only sending small arms, and sending trainloads of heavy equipment instead - as the Ukrainian ones have mostly been taken out. Scrounging up decades-old crap in storage with no upgrades such as East German BMP-1s and Czech T-72M1s. Now sending Mi-17s out of the arsenal they had planned for the Afghan military before said military collapsed in 11 days.
Sending Bosnian and Chechen Islamists, Uighurs, all sorts of TikTok celebrity warriors who get pummeled, ex-Afghan military commandos who now work in their PMCs; all their tools across all their vast empire. Emptying all their stocks of old equipment, ammo, and so on, and now facing a 2nd front with China, tensions with India, and more trouble in the Middle East.
Don't worry, it's important only for Russia to keep pinning them in the Ukraine, with steady advances, while taking out all their supplies and mercenaries. The rest of the world will start to discard their threats over cutting ties with Russia.

War consists of among other things, a constant struggle to outsmart your opponent, cloak your true intentions, pursue and adjust your strategy, adopt new tactics and evolve or discard them when the enemy adapts to them

From what I can see the core of competency is there at levels in the Russian military. Because they display the ability to very rapidly adapt. Tank columns come in with marching formation but people aren't greeting you with flowers? Engagement orders were adjusted in 3 days. High-tempo of advance leading your forces into traps? Lower your tempo within another few days and focus on taking out the traps with your own artillery and helicopters. Bayraktars taking out vehicles? Haven't seen a video from them past the first 2 weeks, only reports of them being shot down daily. Negotiations were betrayed? Well pretend to adhere to them anyway for diplomatic and operational reasons, until your opponent is the one who threatens to cut all negotiations if Mariupol is taken. Opponent massacring his own civilians to put the blame on you? Expose the devil.

And yes each failed step, each lesson comes with a cost, as does the Moskva. Main thing is that the lessons are learned, and that the peacetime officer corps, which is really the same in every army - an armed bureaucracy; is whipped into fighting shape and the no-gooders are rapidly weeded out as talent is allowed to rise to the top.

Werewolf wrote:

flamming_python wrote:Really no evidence for 10 Ka-52 (at most 3), or 10 Su-25 (1-2 but more could have been downed over friendly territory)

BTW, to make you happier Arkhangelsk, here is a T-72 which survived 3 NLAW or Javelin hits

https://t.me/boris_rozhin/42787

Here is one that survived a mine

https://t.me/boris_rozhin/42758

About mobilization, etc.. yes it's probably necessary, but doing it immediately and full-on is very risky. It would lead to large losses from ambushes against reservist troops with no combat experience, which will all be recorded and photographed, fueling Ukrainian propaganda about destroying the Russian army. And that will hamper Russian morale as well.

Instead it's necessary to do it gradually as what is being done in fact. Steady formation of new brigades & battalions, rotation of volunteers and professional fighters, with those who finished a tour being assigned to form the core of new brigades, that will be manned partially by reservists, and partially by fresh volunteers. So a low key partial mobilization in other words, and performed only slowly.
Advances should be measured. For now the Ukrainians and NATO are throwing a whole bunch of cannon fodder against gained Russian positions where all artillery and air defenses are already deployed.
It's necessary to keep the special operation name, with its crusading aims of demilitarization and denazification, and keep to the aim of surrounding the Donbass grouping and forcing its surrender. This will cause huge morale blows and more support amongst part of the Ukrainian population for the Russian mission, helping with intel or joining the fight.

Those numbers are from the highly credible source of "Oryx" with not agenda.

JohninMK wrote:No comment expected from Kiev!

Bets on Il-76 or AN-124?

Update(1632ET): In what appears Moscow's "answer" to the US and NATO countries continuing to supply major weapons systems to Ukrainian forces, state agency TASS is claiming that Russian forces have brought down a Ukrainian military transport plane that was transporting Western arms. It would mark a massive battlefield development if confirmed, potentially escalating conflict more directly with the West, now that Russia is actively targeting Western arms shipments.

The alleged shoot down occurred outside Odessa via anti-air systems, says TASS, while citing Russian Defense Ministry Spokesman Major-General Igor Konashenkov. Though remaining unconfirmed, China state media has also picked up the report, citing the defense ministry statement, which reads:

   “Near Odesa Russian anti-aircraft defense forces have shot down a Ukrainian military transport plane, which was delivering a large shipment of arms supplied to Ukraine by Western counties,” Russian Defense Ministry Spokesman Major-General Igor Konashenkov said Saturday.

However, there's nothing in the way of independent or outside sources confirming it, and Ukraine's military has not issued any statements, nor are they likely to admit that their military aircraft were transporting Western weapons shipments, even if accurate.

https://www.zerohedge.com/military/russia-renews-long-range-strikes-kiev-following-disastrous-loss-warship

CGTN America
@cgtnamerica
·
2h
China state-affiliated media
Replying to
@cgtnamerica
“Near Odesa Russian anti-aircraft defense forces have shot down a Ukrainian military transport plane, which was delivering a large shipment of arms supplied to Ukraine by Western counties,” Russian Defense Ministry Spokesman Major-General Igor Konashenkov said Saturday.

Podlodka77 wrote:

JohninMK wrote:No comment expected from Kiev!

Bets on Il-76 or AN-124?

Update(1632ET): In what appears Moscow's "answer" to the US and NATO countries continuing to supply major weapons systems to Ukrainian forces, state agency TASS is claiming that Russian forces have brought down a Ukrainian military transport plane that was transporting Western arms. It would mark a massive battlefield development if confirmed, potentially escalating conflict more directly with the West, now that Russia is actively targeting Western arms shipments.

The alleged shoot down occurred outside Odessa via anti-air systems, says TASS, while citing Russian Defense Ministry Spokesman Major-General Igor Konashenkov. Though remaining unconfirmed, China state media has also picked up the report, citing the defense ministry statement, which reads:

   “Near Odesa Russian anti-aircraft defense forces have shot down a Ukrainian military transport plane, which was delivering a large shipment of arms supplied to Ukraine by Western counties,” Russian Defense Ministry Spokesman Major-General Igor Konashenkov said Saturday.

However, there's nothing in the way of independent or outside sources confirming it, and Ukraine's military has not issued any statements, nor are they likely to admit that their military aircraft were transporting Western weapons shipments, even if accurate.

https://www.zerohedge.com/military/russia-renews-long-range-strikes-kiev-following-disastrous-loss-warship

CGTN America
@cgtnamerica
·
2h
China state-affiliated media
Replying to
@cgtnamerica
“Near Odesa Russian anti-aircraft defense forces have shot down a Ukrainian military transport plane, which was delivering a large shipment of arms supplied to Ukraine by Western counties,” Russian Defense Ministry Spokesman Major-General Igor Konashenkov said Saturday.

Bets ; RUSLAN !

PapaDragon wrote:

par far wrote:I don't know how old you are but by reading your posts you seem like 15-16 years old....

To quote 15 year olds: **** off

par far wrote:...NATO not only gave the Ukrainian, the weapons, they have trained them for 8 years and right now, they are providing Ukrainian with live satellite images and other information, while being indirectly being involved in this war....

So fucking what?

Apes got some basic infantry training and are wearing fancy uniforms, none of that shit makes them impervious to bombs, missiles and artillery

Ape in fancy suit will die just the same as ape with burlap sack around his ass

They are alive because Russia is allowing it

par far wrote:As for kill all the Ukrainians and destroy, everything Ukrainian, this is not possible because Russians have to live in Russia and Ukraine is right next to Russia, if you don't believe me, check a map....

They won't have to live next to them if they kill them

par far wrote:...If Russia destroys every Ukrainian city, than it becomes Iraq or Libya and Russia cannot forget about it like the United States because it is far....

What are you ranting about?

par far wrote:...Look at what Libya has become for Europe, it has become a launch pad for immigrants, refugees and criminals to come to Europe and cause havoc and destroy everything European....

And all these Ukrainian apes will be running to Europe thus making Russia's job easier

par far wrote:...And you don't to tell the Russians what the Nazis think about them, almost every Russian has someone that passed away in the Patriotic War.

Someone has to since they are treating them better than they treat their own soldiers



Two months ago everyone here was in agreement that Ukrainians are what Ukrainians are: Nazi inbred apes but today they suddenly became some NATO looking genius super-soldiers?

Not a single thing about Ukrainians has changed since two months ago but everyone here started proclaiming them to be some kind warrior master race just so they could make excuses for Russian pussyfooting

Apes should be dead but apes are still not dead, that's Russia’s omission not Ukrainian success

flamming_python wrote:

caveat emptor wrote:

Podlodka77 wrote:How come you two, FP and Arkhangelsk, are not ashamed to be humiliated here? Unbelievers and cowards have no place in military forums. These worms like RTN and LIMB delight with your comments. They and people like them want to see some Russians whining. Do you have any pride, you piece of shit? You believe in Western propaganda, and you urinate on Russia and Putin yourself.

Why, because of a 40-year-old ship and several planes? Idiots, in our country, GYPSIES jumped and made fun on the destroyed F-117 ! YES, THAT MIRACLE OF AMERICAN TECHNOLOGY, which was withdrawn from use only 7 years after the Aggression on the FRY. That's why they pull the F-22, because it's a bucket that's only good for movies.

Their compatriots are dying. Criticising government doesn't mean they are against theor country. It only mean they are not happy with how government performs under circumstances. And, Russia is not Putin. Same like Milosevic wasn't Serbia. I, personally, didn't like the ****, but that didn't stop me from serving the army.
Nobody should close eyes to their mistakes. And strategic mistakes, which Ru government made are the worst kind and most costly.  They not only cost lives, but lower the morale of troops in the field. You should remember complete absence of strategic goals during our war with Croatia. My older brother was stuck in Karlovac barracks with his unit for three months, and they were losing men daily,  due to some botched belief of JNA officers that still believed in brotherhood and unity.
To get back to Russia, I'll give Putin credit where it is due, but on Ukraine he's been mostly wrong and his actions were just reactions to US moves.

Agree on everything you said except for the lack of brotherhood stuff

There is no brotherhood with Nazis and brainwashed peons but Russians and Ukrainians are one people and the later are steadily coming to that realization.
The priority should not be the decimation of their people, on the contrary. If you have to do that to win a war then you're a Nazi yourself. And no, in a civil war, which is what this is - it's not a battle between the peoples, but a battle between ideologies.
The priority should be the destabilization of their regime, its isolation from its people and the growth of the LDNR army through defections, so Ukrainians themselves can take more of the fighting against Nazi countrymen and regime loyalists onto their own shoulders and to increase support from the local population. Support from the local population is vital in a direct military sense as well, as if NATO or foreign mercs come in greater numbers, they can provide intel for where the Kalibrs should fly. In fact it's thanks to Russian-friendly forces on the ground there that already exist that all those missiles know where to fly. Russia cannot betray them.

If you go back on this like PD, you will achieve exactly the Western war aims - which is a permanent alienation between Russians and Ukrainians and a long-lasting insurgency. No, killing them all is not an option, for the last time. There is barely a Russian without Ukrainian relatives and vice-versa. We have so many Ukrainians and Ukrainian-born people in our own country that we will face severe internal troubles from any such tactics too. Fight the regime, it's ideology, its fanatics, its foreign supporters, not the people themselves.

You guys bring up the examples of Serbia. Guys, Serbia did not end up where it is only because it lost the war and because of Western propaganda. But because of people like Milosevic too that took the bait. And if you guys have given up on Yugoslavia, that's fine, enjoy being surrounded by NATO then, but Russians have not given up on the USSR and our neighbours will come around to our way of thinking, you will see.

JohninMK wrote:No comment expected from Kiev!

Wonder what had the range to take it down now the S-300F is no more. Perhaps they thought they were safe, like the RuN.

Bets on Il-76 or AN-124?

[i]Update(1632ET): In what appears Moscow's "answer" to the US and NATO countries continuing to supply major weapons systems to Ukrainian forces, state agency TASS is claiming that Russian forces have brought down a Ukrainian military transport plane that was transporting Western arms. It would mark a massive battlefield development if confirmed, potentially escalating conflict more directly with the West, now that Russia is actively targeting Western arms shipments.....

psg wrote:FP that mil mi-28 shoot down, was the mi-28a, not mi-28n. The mi-28n has the distinctive radar mast on top of the main rotor. That was the shoot down in which the tail section split off from the main fuselage body, in Donbass.

psg wrote:FP that mil mi-28 shoot down, was the mi-28a, not mi-28n. The mi-28n has the distinctive radar mast on top of the main rotor. That was the shoot down in which the tail section split off from the main fuselage body, in Donbass.

flamming_python wrote:

Bets ; C-130

JohninMK wrote:More on the sailors. The comments in the thread basically tear it apart. Probably from December or February.

https://twitter.com/CovertShores/status/1515428576593592324

H I Sutton
@CovertShores
***NEW ANALYSIS*** (Updated) - > http://hisutton.com/Moskva-Cruiser-Loss-Estimate.html


Unpicking the reported parade of #Russian cruiser #Moskva's crew. Sobering watching

kvs wrote:The only relevant analysis is how the final stand of the Kiev regime will play out in the LDNR cauldron.   But all we have is
diversionary theater over the Moskva.   Russia is supposed to sign an unconditional surrender ASAP.  

kvs wrote:The only relevant analysis is how the final stand of the Kiev regime will play out in the LDNR cauldron.   But all we have is
diversionary theater over the Moskva.   Russia is supposed to sign an unconditional surrender ASAP.  

flamming_python wrote:

JohninMK wrote:More on the sailors. The comments in the thread basically tear it apart. Probably from December or February.

https://twitter.com/CovertShores/status/1515428576593592324

H I Sutton
@CovertShores
***NEW ANALYSIS*** (Updated) - > http://hisutton.com/Moskva-Cruiser-Loss-Estimate.html


Unpicking the reported parade of #Russian cruiser #Moskva's crew. Sobering watching

A little better than my estimate. We can hope for another 50 or so injured, psychologically jarred or otherwise recovering.

These guys on the parade all have their discipline and spirits high. But it won't be like that for everyone.