Now remember what happened as Medvedev was President. The west tried to screw him and did so with Libya. He remembers.
All the previous anti Russian BS was directed at Putin so I think Medvedev might have thought he could step in and fix relations with the west and boost trade and improve everything with better relations with the west... and as you mention... Libya, but also South Ossetia and he realised the west isn't anti Putin, they are anti Russian and only a weak sell out like Yeltsen is going to be popular in the west... and the Russian people would not stand for that I don't think.
Wide eyed hopes for a good future with the west dashed to pieces for both Putin and Medvedev, which is why we are where we are today.
Not necessary in fog. Wet weather is fine.
It is called Wilson cloud effect.
A pressure wave from the explosion is supersonic so it is also a sound wave, but even subsonic airflow can compress moist air and generate clouds... happens all the time at airshows with fighters manouvering hard with clouds appearing over their wings in hard turns where the turbulance compresses the air and the cloud forms.
Ukraine has now received M 270. This system will be used to target Russian infantry divisions.
Pantsir should be able to neutralize the M 270's rockets in flight.
An important escalation which will likely lead to heavier and more regular strikes in western ukraine where these items are going to be filtering through from... the rockets themselves would be a pain in the ass... they would be less effective than Smerch rockets which they already have but the Bradley IFV based tracked chassis might be something new for them to try to operate and maintain... and being tracked it will be much slower than the truck mounted Smerch... I suspect they will have trouble using it effectively... especially in this phase of the war where Russia will be increasing its number of drones and air and artillery strikes...
No idea , but NATO combined could do it , aside they have a lot of airforce too , that can overwhelm
any territory in the planet ,including kalingrad and crimea , in case of war .
HATO has never operated in an area protected by S-300 and BUK let alone S-400 and S-350...
They refused to fly below 8km in Kosovo because MANPADS were too dangerous... so no attack helicopters and no A-10s... and Pantsir and TOR would lift the ceiling to 15km plus... and once the HATO airpower is defeated then their attack and defence capacity diminishes dramatically... look at how the Afghan forces did after the HATO air power was taken away... HATO forces will be in the same boat... and while they might have lots of drones of their own their air defences against enemy drones is pathetic and in many cases non existent.
. Even israel in syria with just 2-4 planes can overwhelm pantsirs defenses and destroy them.
In Syria the wont fly into Syrian airspace and spend US taxpayers dollars on standoff weapons and likely use US satellites to watch Syrian air defence vehicles to try to catch them on their own and even then their attempts to "take out Syrian AD" has been pathetic.
Russia needs short air defenses specifically made for targeting swarm of drones in the hundreds..
The irony is that the Russians will get that defence capacity before any member of HATO manages to perfect a swarm drone that is useful enough to need defending from.
So far it is all just talk.
How many drones US have or not , is not important ,what their collective alliance ,
what they can do ,is what Russia needs to be measured .
If Russia is fighting the entire alliance of HATO then drones wont be as important as tactical nuclear strikes very early on targets that matter... in the US.
you never see russian airforce sending dozens of su-35s combat planes deep into ukraine airspace ,for fear of they being shot down.
Targets deep inside Ukrainian territory don't require large numbers of aircraft to hit... standoff weapons are getting the job done just nicely.
Going back to Syria the core difference is that Israel is launching missiles to hit the air defence systems and their standoff weapons are being shot down in large numbers. Compare that with a strike of Russian standoff weapons where I have seen one claim of a Russian missile being shot down by the Ukrainians... one claim of one missile being shot down after all the thousands of weapons fired...
I would say Russia is doing rather well... Syria managed to shoot down 71 cruise missiles out of 103 launched by the west... quite a few more were deceived into flying into the ground and a few reportedly hit some buildings that had no air defence systems near them because they were no longer being used... and that was Syria fighting the west with no direct help from Russia and no IADS network to help them... they only got added to the Russian IADS after the Israelis hid an attack behind Russian aircraft and the Syrians accidentally shot down a Russian plane.
Compared with one claimed missile shoot down...
Yeah, I think the Russians are doing rather better than you suggest.
So you guys , no offense , but if you think ,the west is stupid , is because you don't understand what they really doing. the west is incredibly smart , they are geniuses . the only dumb here Russia government ,specially Putin and his goverment.. the West policies are made for the creation of a world empire , while putin's policies is for "stability" of the russian state..
The mission to Afghanistan was a critical fail in many ways... the most obvious of which is that it proves HATO is not a defensive organisation... the Taliban were no threat to Europe or the US. Secondly it shows that HATO is useless without the US.... when the US decided to leave all their little bitches had no choice and had to leave because they couldn't afford to foot the bill of everything the US brings to a conflict to subsidise Europe. Thirdly, when US air power pulled out the remaining coalition was useless and basically in the hands of their enemy who showed more morals and ethics than the west ever did by not taking advantage and making them really pay like they did to the British when they ran away the last few times they invaded Afghanistan... they tried to do the same with teh Soviets and the west was supporting them to try to create a route but they failed and the US actually tried to study the Soviet withdrawal because they wanted to emulate it to minimise casualties for themselves when they had to leave. They screwed that up of course.
And then the instant collapse of their allies and the disorder in their running away was a catastrophe highlighted by more wholesale slaughter of friendly afghans at the airport trying to leave the country with them when an ISIS bomb killed some Americans... they just opened fire and murdered all the Afghans present in response and then used a drone to murder a man who was working for him and his children and their friends... yeah merica covered itself in glory there... those geniuses will be getting all sorts of medals and bonus payments for that...
When you have a leader like putin ,with no vision of the future , with no major ambitions ,other than russia as a gas station of the world and the capital of sports. Rolling Eyes and that don't understand how the west manage to influence the world ,with its dominating future looking business , then all this things are possible. Russia is facing their decades of passivity and inaction
After 22 years of getting the same reaction from the west he is turning Russia towards the rest of the world.... if you look at my posts over the years I have been suggesting this since I arrived on this forum... when I first posted such ideas a lot of Russian members did not trust China and basiclally thought of themselves as European and could not see how such a future could possibly work.... well the natural consequence of western attempts to isolate and contain Russia has led to Russia turning to the rest of the world and I can tell you that the rest of the world will really benefit because in the past there was no alternative to the US led west so it was all about doing the best deal you could with the devil... now there is an alternative to the devil the devil is going to have to up its game which in itself is already better for the world.
Screw the west... they made their bed and now they can lie in it... the Russians didn't send weapons to the Taliban to kill western soldiers when they were there... before you pissed on their shoes they were letting you send equipment and gear via their territory, but still the accusations about bounties on US soldiers and all sorts of bullshit at a time when US special forces and EU special forces were helping ISIS in Syria to try to kill Russians and pro Assad Syrians defending their own country.
You are still turning a blind eye to the fact that the west has promoted Nazism in the Ukraine and built bio weapons labs and was offering materials to make nuclear weapons and are currently feeding new weapons into the Ukraine to kill Russian soldiers and any Ukrainians that reject US influence in the country.
Putin can't ignore this... relations are never going to be the same... and nor should they.
You saw how apeshit the US went with claims regarding interfering with US elections.... with no proof at all even after extensive investigations.
Russia needs to plan a future that does not involve the west.
It is certainly possible that some european countries might realise the US cares about them as much as they care about Ukrainian soldiers and that making their own decisions in their own interests might allow them to keep warm during winter, but if they dont' then that is their problem when the US gets what they want, which is for the EU to cut gas and oil and coal supplies from Russia... even if they wont do the same themselves...
Europeans are dumb and are easily led... and might even blame Putin in the end, but Putin wont care because trade will be zero with the west and they will only have military options they will not be able to use in fear of the response... because the US will put missiles on Finnish territory and wont care about the Russian response of locating lots of short and medium range nuclear armed missiles to obliterate Finland... that does not hurt the US...
So the EU is cutting off cheap energy and resources for the US and in return the US will protect the EU from the Russians that are now an enemy because the US made them Europes enemy.... like I said... Europeans are stupid.
The only problem the west have is GREED , that makes them arrogant and take major huge risk.
but when it comes to building an empire ,they are already experts on this. Russia in the other side
is expert in complaining how unfair is the west system. but don't do anything to compete .
Putin spent the last two decades trying to get Russia into the wests little exclusive club... now they are going to look to the rest of the world for trade partners... the only countries that lose are the west.
Was Russia able to successfully intercept BM-27, BM-30 rockets in flight?
Already has... the Russian army systems of TOR and Tunguska are already able to do the job... and BUK can too.
The lack of drones in the beginning of the conflict was strange. Russian units were shocked at how many experienced drone operators the DNR and LNR had, and how they had improvised with off-the-shelf options. Now, of course, many Russian units are being supplied with off-the-shelf drones for reconnaissance paid for out of people's pockets, but it is still unacceptable.
Not at all... it is perfectly normal for forces arriving late to a conflict to learn quite a few things from those who have been fighting there for a few years...
The KLUB-BLA video from a couple of days ago shows it can be much more effective than a Switchblade, and it is supposedly cheap and simple to produce. Where is the Lancet in this conflict? Agreed, there is a need for recon drones, drone swarms, loitering munitions. A big need for cheap kamikaze drones that can hit trenches, something like an upsized KLUB with a 6kg warhead, to use in conjunction with regular artillery.
People watch videos of kamikazi drones and think they are amazing, but they only take out one target... considering the Orcs have lots of men that need to be killed or captured Kamikazi drones don't make a lot of sense for Russia... as shown on a recent video where a Russian drone was following a unit of M117 guns... the guns stopped and deployed and were clearly going to fire so the drone that was watching them dropped one bomb and they had to bug out and move... that drone carries small bombs in a small fairing under the wing so with one under each wing that would be four bombs the size of a large hand grenade... even with phenominal accuracy you can't take out an artillery unit with its trucks and guns with four hand grenades... but it didn't have to.
Russia has an air power and artillery advantage so why not use it?
The drone used one bomb to get the unit moving to cover in a small forested area and then we saw the first volley of Russian artillery landing just outside the forested area... with the video from the drone the enemy forces are going to be pinned there and the volleys of Russian artillery are just going to get more and more accurate till they are wiped out... something no kamikazi drone could achieve... you would literally need one K drone for each man and truck and gun... hundreds.
Ridiculous.
In comparison you keep using your recon drone to shell the area and you send in some attack choppers to pick off any trucks that trying to do a runner and then slash through the forest with cannon and rocket fire for good measure...
Job done properly.
I'm not assuming anything. Russian soldiers were complaining on telegram about the lack of drones in the first two months. Kadyrov himself stated this.
Yeah, during their down time in this operation, the Russian soldiers that are not allowed cellphones are complaining to their mates.... right... are you sure they weren't Orc trolls?
Well I am called a troll if I post colonelcassad, rybar, or alleged complaints of russian soldiers. If you post western propaganda, youre called a nazi troll. If you post russians criticising russian military or government performance, youre called an ura patriot emo marxist troll.
Alleged complains by alleged Russian soldiers... yeah, that is the basis for a conversation...
A country owning Uragan, Smerch and Tochka will get nothing perfectly more with M270.
Maybe the fact that they will have it leads to a conclusion that they are out of rocket artillery either.
Or the US sending a message that they are sending more and more... but then they had bio weapons labs and were offering help with tactical nukes so Putin already knew that.
One of the few things I agree with in the video that vann sent, is that ukrainians are putting manequins in trenches as decoys to get the russians to waste ammo. I guess its an obvious low cost solution that the ukrainians are for sure doing en masse. What are possible tactics to counteract this, other than more surveillance? I guess double check the trench with thermals if the figures are actually warm?
The fact that you can watch for hours and not a single person moves would be a good hint, but perhaps it also suggests they are running out of volunteers to sit in trenches... which is also a good thing...
I guess Pantsir is used by Russian forces to intercept Ukranian BM-27 and BM-30.
Pantsir, Tunguska, TOR, and BUK would all be very useful for that... and also Tochka.
How the hell do ukrainians have so many tochka u missiles laying about in the donbass. Today they fired 3(!!!!) tochkas on the vollage of scatovo to cause terror among civilians. In total ukraine had 800 tochka missiles. The russians destroyed a lot of them. How do they still fire several per day? How are they transported to donbass?
From the information you have provided yourself and what we know already it is pretty obvious.
If the Ukraine had 800 missiles where would they have deployed a large percentage of them... considering they were about to launch a large attack on the Donbass area to retake it and eventually follow up with attacks on the Crimea...
They are not going to stack them all on top of each other in one place and just use them a couple at a time... they would scatter them around teh place as much as possible and get one out at a time for a launch from a single launcher.
Their real problem would be launcher vehicles because how could you launch one without it...
Not to mention that over the years they have probably used a few against the Ukrainians of the Donbass regions and in other places as well.
To move the missiles around the place any truck or bus would do... Saddams forces moved Scuds around in buses in the early 1990s.
The simple fact is that while they keep launching them they also keep getting shot down over Russian units... they get results against their own civilians and random shots into Russian territory where there were no ready air defences, but the latter came to an end pretty quick too.
A very capable system of limited use because of Russian artillery and air power dominance and well as their air defence capabilities.
are there guided shells for this gun?
Pretty sure there are... but for most targets like an enemy artillery battery in counter battery fire then precision is not so critical with the target being an area target.
The 120kg HE shells this gun fires spreads lots of fragments over a fairly wide area out to rather long ranges, which makes it good for counter battery fire against towed guns as well as rocket launchers and self propelled guns too.
But without van , what you will have is a forum ,with people , fanboy tards.. only saying the things
that are positive for Russia ,and in total denial of russian catastrophic mistakes that repeats again and again and never stop. I was attacked in the forums when i told , that russia was humiliated in the armenian conflict by turkey and azerbaijan.. that they did all they wanted with russia and armenia.
Blah blah blah... Russia wasn't involved in the conflict in NK... the fact that the Armenians themselves did very much to help the NK is why the Azerbaijanis were relatively successful... if anything that conflict was a great example to countries of how a fighting sprite means nothing if your own government sells you out by sucking up to the west.... Saddam was courting the west when they screwed him... so was Assad and even Gadaffi... and only the Armenian tool and Assad survived...
majority of ukraine drones are not TB2 but only recon one guiding ukraine artillery. doh.. that fly
very low , just 1km altitude or bit more. Also TB2 pilots not always fly high altitude ,where they are vulnerable to s-300s ,tors and buks defenses.. a good pilot of tb2 ,will know when to fly low to evade major air defenses , by flying low.. this is what russian attack hellicopters are doing , to evade ukraine buks and s-300s.
You don't even understand that most drone pilots don't fly the UAVs... UAVs fly on autopilots and are directed to waypoints and to fly at different speeds and altitudes. The pilot monitors the flight and operates the cameras... if they actually flew the planes you could locate them and kill them very easily because of the two way electronic transmissions needed to do that.
Russia have good weapons , but is the mediocre tactics of russia military in modern wars ,and the small inventories of their good weapons, what kills russian effectiveness in the battlefield.
Is Russia is winning in ukraine? for sure ,
Yeah... they are winning because of the overwhelming numbers advantage THAT THEY DON"T CURRENTLY HAVE ON THE GROUND.... their tactics allow a smaller force to pin down and destroy the much much larger force of the Ukrainian military... that is how and why they are winning.... good enough weapons and good tactics which change when needed.
The only place they are losing is in your head and in western media... neither of which are too worried about reality or truth.... every story is just a shot at Putin and how stupid he is.
Must be a total moron to be able to do this to the west... China certainly couldn't... the EU hasn't been able to do this to the US either...
Which brings question why the **** he's still using it...
Because the sheep he is feeding this crap to don't care about the truth so he doens't need to try very hard...
And who cares if Vann does not understand what is happening... what difference does it make really?
The west relies on people being that stupid or that lazy and it works for them, but now a significant part of the worlds population are now turning down a different path... the west does not tolerate rivals... the devil does not share power.
Agree with you. Constructive criticism is much required. And you are certainly not anti Russian unlike those fellows who are suggesting on SM that they enjoy the sight of dead Russians.
See now Sujoy, you contradict yourself... you can't say Vann is good for the forum and then say the reason is that constructive criticism is valuable... Vann is an anti Putin troll that would pin every defeat or transgression Russia has every been accused of by the west on Putin and it really gets very boring very quickly.
Putin is by no means perfect but no other leader on the planet has taking what Putin was given to work with and achieved what Putin has achieved along obviously with all the Russian patriots who helped him along the way to sort shit out.
Now that he and Russia are in a position to reject the west it is good that they do so because the west is an evil corrupting influence that has destroyed many countries in the rest of the world and to continue to do what they do they will have to continue doing the same to more and more countries.
If he had written the truth, Twitter would have banned him.
So why bother posting on Twitter? Why bother reading Twitter if you know this is the normal and acceptable lies it allows.
I'm guessing they still do have some launchers and missiles hidden in the Donbass and other regions, but they're definately conserving the rest of what they have left by now.
I would expect that when the AD is shooting down Tochkas in flight that they are alerting their attack helicopters to the location of the origin of the missiles, so making lots of missiles wont help if you run out of launcher vehicles.
This is the mentality today, western way of thinking is that anything and everything made and fielded in their forces, is superior and leagues above Soviet and Russian made equipment.
Fact is virtually everything can be destroyed and immobilised in war. Something western minds can't grasp.
The amusing thing is that sending them a wonder weapon like a towed artillery piece but without the aiming equipment that makes it accurate, just becomes a burden because you need trucks to tow it everywhere and of course slow to deploy and slow get into towable condition means more time spent waiting for steel rain to eliminate you... they would be better with shorter ranged guns that can be set up and taken down faster and towed by smaller lighter vehicles...
Also, considering import substitution laws are fairly new its going to take some time to get domestic production up and running. The video has no point.
Import substitution actually started with Russian weapons 8 years ago when the west imposed sanctions on all material that was used in military equipment or could be.
Why start watching videos Vann posts now?
Neptune was just a prototype with 1 or two missile available and it seems very likely to have really been used against the Moskva.
Neptune is Uran with all the Russian bits replaced by Ukrainian bits... the jet engine would be fine but the solid rocket booster to get the surface launched model into the air came from Russia... and quite a few other bits and pieces too.
Anti ship missiles will be dangerous for Russia. They have also ground attack mode in last versions with monger range that can hit Sevastopol.
Russia does... Ukraine didn't. It was Russia (via India and Brahmos) that developed land attack software and hardware for their anti ship missiles of all types and integrated them into older systems as well as new ones...
They already underestimated the threat of ukrainian attacks against their naval assats and lost 1 cruiser, got 2 landing ships damaged 1 landing ship sunk at Snake island and 3 or 4 Raptor boat destroyed.
There is no evidence regarding Moskva to prove Kiev had anything to do with that, and the landing ship that was scuttled was hit by Tochka most likely... the other boats taken down were tiny little launches... If anything Ukraines naval prowess is what has been overestimated.... they got wiped out for very little results achieved except killing lots of their own troops in what seems to have been a trap on that island.
Harpoons could add more to that most if they let them use them. They will also venefit from US intel for targeting.
Capturing some Harpoons might be useful, but otherwise they are just subsonic low flying missiles that new Russian corvettes and other ships are expected to be able to deal with... bring it on... just remember you are opening pandoras box and Harpoons to Ukraine means Yakhont to Iran perhaps...
yes american military use chinese chips , but ONLY when they can build them too ,US only use chinese chips only for reducing economic cost or their programs ,is just a price saving thing ,and nothing else , this is very different to what russia is doing that is using their declared enemies technology , using american or taiwanese or japan microchips , because russia don't have any other way , is not for economic cost reduction they do it , but for not having such technology in their own army .
There was a US audit of equipment and material used by teh US military and something like 70 percent of what they use has foreign components inside that they can't just replace very easily or quickly... even something as mundane as modern tent material wasn't made in the US...
The images of the Moskva clearly show they got hit at mid ship where there was no weapons that could have damage accidentaly the ship.
The images clearly show it wasn't hit by anything that actually exploded.... the images show a fire... which could have been caused by an S-300 launch where the missile failed to fire its main engine and fell back onto the deck and burned...
Anti ship missiles rip huge holes in the upper structures of ships when they hit and explode inside a ship and there was zero evidence of that.
Yeah like they were supposed to build hundreds of t-84 for export and themselves. There is a huge gap between what they say and what they can do. A missile system is way harder to create than a piece of metal like a tank.
Uran has been in service for decades and was first seen in the mid 1980s...
I suspect the neptunes they had were just soviet leftovers that they managed to put back in service somehow for a single attack.
Or even no attack...
The most useless part of it all was that it was mostly intended to break through the propaganda and show that Russia isn't Mordor or whatever. That was very naive of Putin and the Russian government.
It worked with the people who actually went, but how much can a small ripple effect the tide... but then who cares... **** the west... it is their loss.
Some infrastructure was indeed done for the Games, but price tag was too high. Plus, FIFA world cup along with summer Olympic games are premier sport events.
They transformed a region I had otherwise never heard of... countries in the west have spent a whole lot more and gotten far less out of it.
Must be true. Ergo, no pictures of this shoot down was released by the Russian defense ministry.
As Kievs propaganda has shown, pictures would prove nothing... they have about 50 years of ABM SAMs experience with testing and training with all sorts of targets including Tochkas that they could dig up and show to prove an intercept... what would it achieve?
Russia is not taking part in the propaganda war with Kiev there is no point.
BTW Vann is obviously a couch potato and thinks money wasted on Sport should be spent on Space... ignoring that sport is probably more relevant to people here on earth than trying to outdo the US and the west in space projects.
can anyone confirm this ?
Well it is on Youtube so it must be true...
A resettlement programme for ethnic Russians or Ukrainians should be arranged , in conflict areas , to save their lives . Minorities can be helped into majority areas , by state aid or house exchanges . Businesses can be moved too . Equivalent land can be provided for lost land .
Why?
Russia is winning... why should they give up anything at all... their demands should be increasing with time not diminishing...
Don't like it... well lets continue the talk next week...
Russia has its own wheat supplies.
Anyone quoting the Kiev Independent should be suspended.
From a very tall tree by their testicles...
I'm not big fan of spending huge money on sports events. Maybe FIFA wc is different as that is very profitable and stadiums are used afterwards
Well they wont be going to any sports events the west has control of any time soon so having their own and being able to invite perhaps select countries to compete might be an avenue forward for them until the wests grip on world sports is broken...
Vann is just being retard as usual
Couch potatoes hate sports...
They just developed a taste for contactless warfare after Syria, that is all
When it is that accurate and effective and the enemy seems unable to stop it then why not... it frees your pilots for duties like shooting down Su-25s and Hips and anything else they get into the air.
For Russia's sake, I hope Putin doesnt entertain any talks of peace for neutrality, since this gives Ukraine the ability
Pretty sure Putin knows what Zelenskys signature is worth on any agreement... and an American or German or French signature is no better really.
Judging solely from where Russia is concentrating its forces, and considering Putin is not committing a lot more troops for major pushes, it seems that the goal is to drive out the Ukrainians from the Donbass completely and that the land bridge to Crimea will be kept.
This conflict has phases... he didn't need to mobilise a lot of troops for this phase but that is not to say no potential future phases will not need a change in posture and force strength or structure.
But fair enough, it's really up to Russia to show such footage. The Ukrainians have UAVs recording their footage and are publishing it all the time, nothing to stop Russia doing the same thing.
The Russian troops don't have cellphones, and why show the enemy all the recordings of how many men and items of equipment they are losing and how... the point is to continue and make them keep losing... showing fluff to the west is pointless and probably counter productive...
They still don't have that many plateforms for kalibr and ships are pretty slow to come back for reloads.
They could launch tied up at their pier...
And many are air launched missiles as released from Bears and Blackjacks well inside Russian airspace.
They better build more kh-101 and kh-59mk2 as well as Oniks for which they have truck based launchers.
You do understand the Onyx missiles fired from trucks are exactly the same as the Onyx missiles launched from ships and subs...
I think they should be digging up the old anti ship missiles like Granit and Vulcan and the really old Styx missiles... the latter would not be much use against decent air defence but the Orc air defence is in tatters... the former missiles can use their enormous warheads to take out fortifications or enemy infantry positions and other area targets...
Essentially using up old stuff.... previously they would keep it because in a serious war they could be used for sinking civilian enemy traffic and other non defended targets, or at very well defended targets to distract the air defences... but most require specialised launchers that are not very mobile and I doubt weak targets will come to them... the newer stuff seems to be very effective anyway.
IMO they will also build truck launchers for the kalibr. I think the treaty on ground based long range missile is dead now.
They could put them on existing Iskander trucks...
I never realized how similar the I-16 was to the I-15. Its almost like they just removed the upper wing and replaced the fixed landing gear with retractable and called it a day.
AFAIK the I-16 was developed first and the I-15 was put in service next... the I-16 was new in the sense that it had the speed that other biplanes didn't, but the I-15 was more manouverable and had lower takeoff and landing speeds... so they were different enough to use both.
A later model of I-15 also had retractable wheels too.
Both had excellent ShKAS rifle calibre machine guns firing at 1,800rpm each, and some had 20mm cannon which were very powerful for the time too.