Russian special military operation in Ukraine #17

Personally, if I was a russian general I'd be wishing Ukraine used the himmers on major cities, why? because that might actually make Putin treat this as a real war.

GarryB wrote:Would be a good challenge for the Russians... testing their forces against current HATO weapons... I suspect the DIRCMS fitted to Ka-52s should be suffiicent to deal with IIR guided missiles but we will find out.

IRIS-T has higher ECM-resistance and flare suppression and also higher target discrimination abilities. To improve the probability of a direct hit, the missile is equipped with an active radar proximity sensor.

Ka-52s have been shot down by 90s era IGLA-S.

RTN wrote:

GarryB wrote:Would be a good challenge for the Russians... testing their forces against current HATO weapons... I suspect the DIRCMS fitted to Ka-52s should be suffiicent to deal with IIR guided missiles but we will find out.

IRIS-T has higher ECM-resistance and flare suppression and also higher target discrimination abilities. To improve the probability of a direct hit, the missile is equipped with an active radar proximity sensor.

Ka-52s have been shot down by 90s era IGLA-S.

You do know there is no such thing has a 90's era IGLA-S right....that system debuted in 04 and every single chopper in the world can be targetted by a MANPAD.

flamming_python wrote:

Podlodka77 wrote:If someone has not understood me so far, I will write openly.
The people who voted for Poroshenko and Zelensky (50+% of population), for the most part, DO NOT DESERVE to ever join Russia ! No, never ever as part of the Russian Federation !
And you who disagree with me that I wrote that Russia should never take the regions west of the Dnieper, you are mistaken and not me.
Are you aware that if Russia includes parts west of the Dnieper, it would mean the spread of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church and the Ukrainian language in Russia itself in the future ? Do you really want that ?
The same ukrainian people accepted the government, which banned the Russian language, Russian political parties, the translation of Russian films into Ukrainian, burned people in Odessa, torture of people in Donbass for 8 years and many other evils. And would you like such people to be a part of Russia? You who are Russians on this forum, I have to ask you if you want such "brothers" as part of Russia ?
I am convinced that Russia does not have a goal to occupy the whole of Ukraine, but aims to break Ukraine militarily into pieces and economically to stone age, so that after the conflict, only misery and despair remain for the diminished Ukraine. And then in the future, let them ask themselves what they needed all that for, to be cannon fodder for foreign interests. Leave them a couple of decades to sober up.

And when this operation is over, then what is left of Ukraine will no longer be interesting to anyone. And that will also bring the main thing, the defeat of the West.

PapaDragon wrote:
It will be more than interesting and it's exactly what they want

If you give them anything you lose (they already lost this way before)

Russia doesn't need to absorb the whole thing but nothing can be given to anyone

Take everything, depopulate it if required and if there's something​ left turn it into eternal drone-bombed hellscape


(Sell safari tickets afterwards to rich weirdos who want to do freaky shit to other people without consequences)

That feeling when the Russia-Ukraine threads get taken over by genocidal Serb monarchists

A genocidal monarchist ?
I don't know if it should have been a joke, since I don't know what kind of Serbian "genocide" it is ?!
And what should I do, dream about that shit from Lenin, like you, as well as cry for the fictional "red" nation - the Soviets ?
Russia was destroyed more during the Reds than by the Wehrmacht itself, remember that ! I would tear Lenin's mausoleum to the ground.
I would take all the RED STARS off the Kremlin and bring back the IMPERIAL EAGLES !!!

RIA Novosti; 18:39 06/02/2022 (updated: 19:00 06/02/2022)

DPR forces will soon close the cauldron near Severodonetsk and Lisichansk, Basurin said

Basurin: DPR expects to close boiler near Severodonetsk and Lisichansk in a few days





MOSCOW, June 2 - RIA Novosti. The forces of the Donetsk People's Republic in a few days expect to take into the "boiler" a grouping of Ukrainian military in the area of ​​Lisichansk and Severodonetsk, Deputy Head of the People's Militia Department of the DPR Eduard Basurin said on the Rossiya 1 TV channel.
"There are a few days left to completely close the cauldron, which is connected with Lisichansk and Severodonetsk, with the exit of our troops to the Artemovsk region after that ... We are not speeding up the process, we just hold them back and slowly grind those parts that are here," he said.

According to him, in recent days, the Ukrainian military tried to break through in the area of ​​​​Novomikhailovka and Avdeevka, but were repulsed and suffered enormous losses.

https://ria.ru/20220602/kotel-1792719192.html

I will need to see how many troops they actually trap, people here stated colossal numbers if it's just something like 10k that's rather sad

Podlodka77 wrote:

A genocidal monarchist ?
I don't know if it should have been a joke, since I don't know what kind of Serbian "genocide" it is ?!
And what should I do, dream about that shit from Lenin, like you, as well as cry for the fictional "red" nation - the Soviets ?
Russia was destroyed more during the Reds than by the Wehrmacht itself, remember that ! I would tear Lenin's mausoleum to the ground.
I would take all the RED STARS off the Kremlin and bring back the IMPERIAL EAGLES !!!

"All that glitters is not gold"

Tsarists Russia suffered from very poor levels of literacy. Only 33% of men and 12.5% of the female population was considered literate.
Rural areas suffered the most and almost all peasants were illiterate. The Bolshevik "Likbez" literacy campaign during the 20's and 30's was highly successful and pretty soon the USSR had one of the highest literary levels in the world at 99%.

The Soviet Union became THE leading country in the field of science, physics and mathematics. Not bad for a bunch of potato peelers!

Hole wrote:

This pretty much a modification of the BMP-2 that was offered for export some time ago >>

UA claimed to have destroyed 6 "Raptor" small fast attack boats.

The BSF only had 3 available, and 2 of them were photographed today back in Sevastopol, one with some visible damage but not anything critical.

So that leaves one still unaccounted for. Perhaps UA destroyed it. One. Perhaps. And they spent what, 8 Bayraktars to do so.

IR footage always makes explosions look way bigger, so I guess it was convenient to cut right at the boom, not to show them moving on afterwards.

Very nice to see employment of the Russian weapon systems

LMFS : that's a nice post there of the Su35 employing R77 and turning hard away from target able to guide the missiles adequately and employing its supermaneuverability

The BTG concept worked well in the battles in Donetsk

Russian units were able to nicely encircle and take the bulk of settlements, the fight for Slavyansk and Kramatorsk as well as Avdeyevka will be important and experience from Mariupol and Severodonetsk can also be applied

Also, units of Russian Armed forces have rebuffed VSU to Stary Saltov, returning to the outskirts of Kharkov

Ergo, it's a positional battle with Russia toying with the VSU near Kharkov

The volume of fire available to Platoons and Companies of the BTG is better than air support, the fire mission is there 24/7 delivered instantaneously

It seems like the artillery covers the movement of the BTG and they just employ mortars

The K 8 GRAN laser guided mortar is a nice weapon for trench strikes

A 120mm mortar employed by observers from the spetznaz brigades working with the army BTG

While the BTG might not be the best formation for large scale warfare

It seems suited for the Special Military Operations in Syria and Ukraine

It is the optimal choice, the BTG reduces the usage of manpower , employing a manpower to artillery ratio of 1:3

This gives a standard battalion such a punch, that they can afford to stare down brigades which Outman the attacker by a factor of 3

A russian battalion can engage brigades like OMBR 52nd or 24th , and face them with superior firepower

Radically changing the concept of overmatch

If you recall, US army wrote a journal titled "defeating the Russian Battalion Tactical Group" written by army level of Fort Benning , Georgia

They wrote that it was possible to overmatch the Russian battalion and exhausting it

But this actually proved untrue and totally broke US army doctrine

In fact the Russian BTG has endured in attrition style warfare, rolling back brigades of US army style VSU

In fact the entire US army concept was proven wrong

The Russian BTG could just sit back and engage the larger formation due to the fire volume available to it

The kettle by fire basically tied down VSU brigade, and the manpower could focus its attack on key sectors of the enemy lines

The divisional and regimental groups are overkill for Ukraine

Where Russian manpower of 70,000 to 90,000 men can adequately roll back a force which outnumber it by factor of 4

We saw this over and over again against entrenched brigades at severodonetsk, Liman, popasnaya, Svyatogorsk

There really isn't an answer to this problem facing the western and Ukrainian military planners , who begin relying on MLRS and adapt to Russian doctrine

The problem of the VSU is not a question of weapons, but of poor leadership by USA which has not fought a high intensity war and continues to utilize concepts and doctrines from the cold war

Mir wrote:

"All that glitters is not gold"

Tsarists Russia suffered from very poor levels of literacy. Only 33% of men and 12.5% of the female population was considered literate.
Rural areas suffered the most and almost all peasants were illiterate. The Bolshevik "Likbez" literacy campaign during the 20's and 30's was highly successful and pretty soon the USSR had one of the highest literary levels in the world at 99%.

The Soviet Union became THE leading country in the field of science, physics and mathematics. Not bad for a bunch of potato peelers!

Literacy was not much higher in the "advanced" west in the late 1800s. I am not quite sure what your point is.

SeigSoloyvov wrote:I will need to see how many troops they actually trap, people here stated colossal numbers if it's just something like 10k that's rather sad

It won't be a big pocket. Between Lisichansk, SeveroDonetsk and Gorskoe estimated number of deployed troops are btw 15-20k.

kvs wrote:

Mir wrote:

"All that glitters is not gold"

Tsarists Russia suffered from very poor levels of literacy. Only 33% of men and 12.5% of the female population was considered literate.
Rural areas suffered the most and almost all peasants were illiterate. The Bolshevik "Likbez" literacy campaign during the 20's and 30's was highly successful and pretty soon the USSR had one of the highest literary levels in the world at 99%.

The Soviet Union became THE leading country in the field of science, physics and mathematics. Not bad for a bunch of potato peelers!

Literacy was not much higher in the "advanced" west in the late 1800s.   I am not quite sure what your point is.

Not exactly. For example, average literacy rate was much higher in K und K monarchy, which was one of the less developed places in Western Europe. Literacy in Russian Empire in late 19th century can be compared, in levels, to Krajina or Transylvania regions of Austro Hungarian empire.

kvs wrote:

Mir wrote:

"All that glitters is not gold"

Tsarists Russia suffered from very poor levels of literacy. Only 33% of men and 12.5% of the female population was considered literate.
Rural areas suffered the most and almost all peasants were illiterate. The Bolshevik "Likbez" literacy campaign during the 20's and 30's was highly successful and pretty soon the USSR had one of the highest literary levels in the world at 99%.

The Soviet Union became THE leading country in the field of science, physics and mathematics. Not bad for a bunch of potato peelers!

Literacy was not much higher in the "advanced" west in the late 1800s.   I am not quite sure what your point is.

In 1870 the average literacy throughout the world was as low as 19% with Russia coming in below average at 15%
On the other side of the coin the more "advanced" United kingdom had a literacy rate of 76% - well above the average!
https://ourworldindata.org/literacy

Mir wrote " This pretty much a modification of the BMP-2 that was offered for export some time ago >> " , If I see correctly , then it is up-armouring operation with cage armour . Good to see cage armour , however I saw recently some Artillery shells that were captured by the trunks of trees , without exploding in Ukraine Forest  ! Then this remind me of the old Persian Wicker or Rattan shield , the purpose of this " flimsy" shield , was not to stop the point of sword or sphere , but to allow it to penetrate and then be captured by it by engagement in plant fibres . The shield then dragged the weapon away from attackers hand !

Now these Iron bars , allow detonation of ATGW , are hard and are  quite close to body of APC  . Two improvements can be made : first is to replace Iron bars with Kevlar type fabrics or other ( elasticated , to not reduce speed too fast ) that are loose women to capture incoming and trap it without detonation . The other is to have these " wicker" shields further away from body of vehicle . These shields could fold in during transport and fold out during engagement by mechanical device . If using plant fibres , can be very light and can be lowered outwards by hand -  An experimental " wicker shield " could be constructed and tested very quickly .

The fibres open up slightly , allowing small charge to pass through , but body of ATGW  too fat and captured ! Tandem charge defeated . Without any explosions , can capture many ATGW , like Christmas decorations ! Light - weight tube frame and fabrics , allows extending frame further away from vehicle , without frame breaking !

caveat emptor wrote:

SeigSoloyvov wrote:I will need to see how many troops they actually trap, people here stated colossal numbers if it's just something like 10k that's rather sad

It won't be a big pocket. Between Lisichansk, SeveroDonetsk and Gorskoe estimated number of deployed troops are btw 15-20k.

My my that's not the massive amount of forces the experts here claimed,

SeigSoloyvov wrote:

caveat emptor wrote:

SeigSoloyvov wrote:I will need to see how many troops they actually trap, people here stated colossal numbers if it's just something like 10k that's rather sad

It won't be a big pocket. Between Lisichansk, SeveroDonetsk and Gorskoe estimated number of deployed troops are btw 15-20k.

My my that's not the massive amount of forces the experts here claimed,

Probably because thousands of them have been killed already?