Russian special military operation in Ukraine #19

He no doubt has his eyes on the Euro 6B or so that the EU is threatening to withhold. Sharp cookie is Orban.

Sharp cookie?

You mean money whore.

He is changing his stance against what he believes in in the interests of getting money or favours... you know... a whore.

140 Nazis were released just yesterday, this one simply needs to wait his turn

The link given was a second hand discussion of the guy with the video... this is propaganda to get the authorities to shoot this guy... we got you in custody but don't have anything to charge you with... but simply being a part of Azov is a criminal offense in the Donbass so hand him over... he was a sniper so they can be sure he did some things even if they can't be proven in a court of law...

There is no indication from that blog that this guy is getting away with anything at all, just that his attitude is pissing that blogger off.

And don't give me that BS about prisoner exchange, they could have exchanged some random nobodies instead of war criminals

Stop being a dick, if they are handing over nazis war criminals and keeping the nobodies then you have a good point but the idea they are handing over war criminal nazis is all in your head so YOU DON'T.

This is after you disregard the fact that the best way of freeing your POWs is to triple down on exterminating the enemy

Not at all... if they don't drop their weapons they should be shot... even if they are running away because that could just be a withdrawal to another position to fire at you. They either surrender or they die... I am in full agreement on that... but when they surrender then there are rules of not just war but also of decency.

Otherwise you are no better than they are so what are you fighting for?

Also how the f*ck did Ukrops manage to get their hands on this many Russian POWs?

I was told that no conscripts were used in this operation

Most likely Ukrainian special forces wandering around Russia rear areas picking up support force soldiers from their trucks...

From a force of 120 thousand a few hundred is not something to be too worried about.

Equally there will be lots of forces operating behind enemy lines looking for targets and other potential problems for the advancing forces.

So why did those "professional" soldiers just throw down their weapons and gave up? Tough when picking up their paychecks but not tough enough to do the job they get those paychecks for?

Fighting to the death is not always very much use... especially when you are kicking the enemies arse and likely wont be in captivity for decades.

We had loads of grunts getting captured in wars here which is what happens when you believe in the old commie "brotherhood and unity" bullshit

Hahaha.... yeah, western countries never get soldiers captured... ever... because they get a vote every few years so they wont ever be captured in combat because that is how life works.

More evidence , of Russian airforce inadequate and outdated combat tactics , they still using those outdated anti armor weapons , subsonic missiles , that are verrrry slow and inadequate against moving targets. I have seen this misses  A  LOT  in the syrian war..

More evidence you are dumb as **** Vann... the only subsonic anti armour missiles the Soviets and Russian has were the wire dragging missiles like Metis and Konkurs and Fagot... everything else is supersonic.

And when you say misses a lot do you mean as much as Javelin and Stinger are missing because for such wonder weapons that were going to decide the fate of Soviet armour they seem to be bloody useless.

And the rate they are being captured at it seems the Orcs agree because they don't seem to be using them much if at all... just leave them in the boxes and when you leave don't take them with you....

That A Ka-52 fire a missile at a terrorist
moving car and years or more later , when the manually guided missile reach the car , it miss.

They don't have any manually guided anti armour missiles for their helicopters... that was likely a Vikhr and the vehicle went down a dip in the road so the missile hit the terrain before reaching the target.... BTW that view was likely massively magnified because that missile moves over 600m per second so every two seconds it covers 1.2km... it was probably at a range of 8-10km...

And that second shot blew them to hell so what is the problem?

-The entire thing require a precious 1 minute or more of time to destroy a moving target.

From 8-10km distant how long would it take with a super missile like Javelin which only moves at about 200m/s... so 5 seconds to cover 1km.

The missile is launched at 43 seconds into the video... the vibration causes the camera view to lose focus for a half second and then top right you see the black exhaust of the Vikhr missile on its way to the target.... the missile impacts the ground less than 100m short of the target at 57 seconds, which means a flight time of about 15 seconds to the target... at 610m/s then 15 seconds means the target was about 9km away... except for the first missile exploding in the field 100m away the people in that vehicle had no idea the helicopter was even there...

The second impact occurs at 1 minute 21 seconds, there was no vibration at launch so the other helicopter in the team might have launched that missile for that kill.

Hellfires can't hit targets beyond 8km.

-Also for this attack helicopters to hit anything with missiles they need to stop flying and hover above
a place ,which makes them highly vulnerable and easy to anti tank missiles , as Ukraine have been destroying many of them..

Russian helicopters never fire from the hover, you are confusing them with western helicopters.

-This is an operation could have been much more safer AND far more efficient using an orion drone

An orion drone carryings four missiles at most, these two Hokums have 24 missiles between them and likely 80 x 80mm rockets as well as over 1,000 30mm cannon shells.

The only video I have seen from the Orcs of a Kamov no longer flying managed to land and the crew got out because the ejection seats were not used and the  main rotors were still attached... meaning no one tried to eject.

or any other heavier strike drone with a supersonic strike infra red guidance missile.

The Kornet missile that the Orions would carry would take twice as long to reach that target.... and not just because it would be flying at 8km altitude, but also because the Kornet is a 450m/s missile instead of 610m/s for the Vikhr.

The fact that Russia is not using an strike drone or kamikazi cheap drone for such operations and instead use manned attack helicopters shows Russia have a major serious problem with strike drones capabilities,
that their inventories are very low and can't be used every day , but in special times only.

Launching Kamikazi drones is just western bullshit mantra... this helicopter found a target, identified it as a target and engaged it... and destroyed it.

The fact that it took two missiles instead of one means nothing.

I remember just after Desert Storm the Apache pilots being very angry at the people who made Hellfire because before they went into combat they were told not to worry about tracking the targets yourself, just let the system follow them because that would be more accurate. In combat the system kept jumping to other targets and so their missiles did a lot of missing because of the smoke and burning items on the battlefield played havoc with the auto tracking systems and they kept losing lock and marking other things the missile had already flown past and could not possibly hit.
I believe the pilot interviewed said something along the lines of how he would like to meet that fat bastard again so he could punch him in the face.

If Russia is so incompetent in electronics in mass production of strike drones , they should buy turkey drones instead or ask iran or china help.

They should take the sticky tape and hamster wheels and ice cream sticks they used to make the Kamovs to make lots of drones instead...

-This poor performance of ka-52 in the battle field could explain why India , skipped them ,when --Russia offered them and instead prefered american apache helicopters because of million times  superior hellfire fire and forget missiles.

The Amazing performance of the Kamov will have most Indian military personel cursing the day the Indian committee chose the Apache over the two Russian alternatives... both of which seem rather better now.

Russia needs fire and forget smart missiles ,something like Brimstorm missiles..

Brimstone could not be used in this conflict in fire and forget mode because the MMW radar signatures of Russian and Ukrainian tanks are too similar... compounded by the fact that the Donbass use captured vehicles too.

Of course it seems there are lots of friendly fire incidence on the Orc side anyway... according to foreign fighter reports.

This missiles are an evolution of hellfire misisles ,fire and forget smart missiles , automatic target acquisition.

They are active radar homing and cost more than most western drones.

Totally useless against moving targets and very inefficient and close to useless and highly inefficient way of combat against fixed ground targets.

Hahahaha... volleys of unguided rockets destroy an area of terrain where most things get damaged and some get killed outright... whether they are moving or not... in fact moving things are not in cover so would be more likely to get damage from fragments.

So far this conflict have proven ,NATO have the edge hands down in precision and ultra precision weapons and strike drones and 24 hours real time monitoring of the battle field.  and that Russia still

Russia is still hitting targets all over the Ukraine all the time with precision guided missiles... HATO would have run out by now and HATOs drones would have been all shot down by now too.

You don't need to stop flying, just need to have target in visual sight.

Western experience in Afghanistan was that if you hover to guide your missiles or rockets or cannon fire at targets you will start getting RPG rockets fired at you. RPGs are terrible weapons for hitting a flying helicopter... but a hovering helicopter is a sitting duck...

Something the Soviets learned in the 1980s...

If they use unguided bombs and missiles from time to time, it is their choice and they know why they are doing it.

Vann is a product of the west and thinks if it is not guided and precise it is no use on a battlefield.

He does not understand or can't be made to understand that in a helicopter if you detect a group of soldiers 3km away then firing an ATGM at each one does not make sense, but firing a volley of 4-5 rockets to land all round the group of soldiers will take a lot more of them out than firing one ATGM.

Russian helicopters have both unguided rockets and cannon and also anti tank guided missiles... if they want to hit point targets they can with their ATGMs.... the Havoc can carry 16 missiles on two weapon pylons leaving two weapon pylons free for rockets and their 20 shot 80mm rocket pods have more rockets than the western 19 shot 70mm rocket pods... Hokum carries 12 missiles on two weapon pylons and can use the same rocket pods or the 16 missiles that the Havoc carries... all of those missiles are supersonic.

Vann... can you tell me which western attack helicopter or drone can carry 12 Vikhr supersonic 10km range ATGMs and also 16 ATAKA supersonic 8km range ATGMs while having two weapon pylons for two Verba missiles under each wing as well as almost 500 x 30mm cannon shells?

But what's not happening is that they don't have hangers full of combat ready jets that they are rolling out as needed.

Enemy airpower is dangerous when it is hitting your front lines. When it gets shot down just after taking off then it is a turkey shoot and not something that needs attention to deal with... let them keep getting more planes and fixing old ones and getting them airborne... wasting fuel and killing pilots and destroying planes... that is similar to the job on the ground.

One thing they clearly miss in this war is a mig-25 with a good in real time recco pod to spot targets.

Too vulnerable in the age of the S-300...

A su-57 and its stelath or a checkmate with a optical pod would also help spot targets on the front. It could sneak around undetected.

Probably what they were doing with it... using its electronics to see what sort of picture of the battlespace it could create and share...

They seem to be unable to locate and dzstroy mobile ukrainian artillery like himars or cesars.

Their problem is that they could keep them in built up areas... roll them out of a building like a mall or hospital... fire a few rounds and then roll it back into the building... or put a tarp on it and take it for a drive in traffic...

Good example, but Russia does have Hermes, just not in the mass service yet.

Not a good example at all... the Vikhr missile is excellent and in mass production for at least the last 10 years... being a beam rider it is accurate and fast and cheap... you could literally get 100 Vikhrs for the price of one Hellfire or Brimstone... and they have shorter (proven) range.

And still they refuse to break rank

Loyalty to Nazi cause is absolute and no amount of pussyfooting will ever change that

Only solution is to exterminate them, everything else is failure

The post you replied to clearly states:  

After protests and refusal to take up positions, they were declared deserters.

And that men were declared missing so they didn't get paid salaries... they aren't missing they are refusing to fight so the guys on the front line are declaring them missing so they are stuck on the front line but without pay...

Only solution is to exterminate them, everything else is failure

I do agree with the solution though.

Not to mention the fact that he didn't present any evidence of "this misses A LOT in the Syrian war" because he hasn't seen anything, and is just pulling this information out of his own ass.

Missiles hitting things on their way to the target is normally made much worse when the target is moving and is a very common occurrence.... it is just a fact of war but I would still call bullshit on happening a "lot" anywhere... because Vann is an emotional little kid that over reacts so it is opinion and not verified in any way.

Russia is as known a little late into UAV business, they need to saturate the armed forces with them and then the results will be qualitatively different, because it will be possible to keep wide fronts under constant surveillance and interdiction. Kronstadt is starting three shift work on the production of the Orion as we speak...

Russia is very much lacking in murderbots, but in most useful areas like artillery support they are just fine... the drones everyone is talking about that roam the battlefield 24/7 and constantly kill enemy where ever they are only happen in very small warzones like in NK... in larger areas like Iraq or Syria or Libya their performance has not been astounding... they are great for tiny countries with no budgets that can't afford the real thing, but they are not magic and BUK and S-300 would mean the 30-40 medium sized drones the US would have been using for this conflict if they were in Russian shoes would quickly be shot down and require manned aircraft to take the role over again.

Most armed drones carry two or four missiles which offers no combat persistence at all... pathetic in fact.

But western media will tell you it´s "sophisticated". Just like the 60 year old M109.

Members on this forum claimed it was a game changer and why hasn't Russia got anything like it...

One can even say that ATGM is an overkill, especially wasting two of them on such target. These munitions were never designed to destoroy a moving cars going 60+ km/h. For such soft targets there is solution - cheap drones that can disable or destroy vehicles. Using brimstones makes even less sense.

If you mean 600K per Hellfire missile, yes I would agree... but the price of Vikhr missiles is a tiny fraction of that number and it makes it well worth the use of two missiles... those helicopters likely had 12 each...

Everyone spooging on drones... where the **** are all these drone control units supposed to be located?

Orc special forces would have enormous fun sneaking around Russian rear areas butchering Russian drone operators... unless you want drones operated via satellite uplink and then after a few days the helicopters are going to start to look cheap in comparison.

Russian artillery is crushing Ukrainian troops thanks to cheap ass Orlan drones, I never imagined that such symbiosis can have evident results like that. Russian usage of drones is insane and there goes my opinion that "it won't be effective in conventional warfare". I was part of "drones are just a fad" crew, but this was based on expensive UCAVs. Even Igla/Stinger/Strela/Martel operators who should have an easy life countering them are one-time use, when they shoot down a drone they invite an artillery barrage on their perimeter.

Drone goons want to replace everything with drones... including attack helicopters.

The best feature of an Orlan drone is not the number of missiles it does not carry... it is eyes on target... anything more than that is western bullshit...

Think drones can win this conflict then I guess Kiev must have already won because they have enormous access to western drones of all types so they must be winning... except they are clearly not.

If that is the case then why would Russia do better with more drones?

After the victory in Lisichansk the frontline there is much shorter, that frees some troops for other duties.

Maybe video game duty flying drones...  

hey Vann what subsonic missiles are you talking about? old Shturm, Ataka, and Vikhr are all supersonic. Russia hasn't had a subsonic helicopter launched missile since the ancient Falanga missile, and Russia is not using that.

Vann is not one to let facts get in the way of a good moan about how wrong Putin is.

I really hope Aiden aislin and Sean pinner aren't executed. In interviews, they seemed to be genuinely remorseful, and willing to provide valuable information about western involvement in Ukrainian units. They could be mini Pauluses, denouncing western support of the Ukraine national ideology instead of martyrs. It's actually a travesty that they're being executed while dozens of azov members are being exchanged.


Bbb-ut no exceptions you'll say. Well isn't exchanging fucking azov members an exception?

The whole war happened because the collective west decided that Ukrainians in eastern Ukraine who were rebelling against Kievs orders to stop speaking Russian and start speaking Ukrainian must really be a bunch of 5th columnist Russians in disguise so these last 8 years they say it is OK for Kiev to shell Ukrainian CIVILIANS in those separatist regions because the west and Kiev wants everyone to believe they are actually Russians invading the Ukraine and supported by the Russian Army but we can't prove it you just have to take our word.

Well some of their people have been captured fighting for the enemy who have been shelling them all this time and the rules state they are not legitimate enemy combatants and the rules of war generally point to execution to deter others from doing the same usually.

Jails around the world are full of men and women who regret what they did... it is better than the people in those jails who would do it all again if they could but regret getting caught, but not a lot better.

Personally I think this is the Donbass region trying to force the UK to admit the truth and speak to them with a bit of respect instead of sending snarky notes to Moscow making all sorts of demands and making all sorts of accusations.

and Ukrainians would not trade Russians for westerners

Which proves they are mercs really.

So NATzO will
need to step in.

They have said they wont to not start WWIII... they understand that by now Russia probably wants some HATO troops to mince.

sometime in 2023 or 2024 because in our insane electoral politics neither party wants to look "soft on defense."

Sales of 2 million factor sunscreen is going to mushroom...

Everyone keeps forgetting that Morrocan kid

Funny that...  

I don't know what you guys expect, nothing russia can do to prevent attacks with Himmers it has the range, impossible to stop Ukraine from doing this and again this is a war, Ukraine has every right to attack their enemies home soil.

Rights don't really come in to it... if the Ukraine can attack Russian soil for helping the DNR and LNR then surely Moscow can attack any western country that is supplying weapons and funds to Kiev...

All I am seeing is pointless complaining, Russia isn't some all knowing god.

Very much agree... and following that, all these people demanding Russia deploy more drones... they are operating drones but also operating all sorts of other things that require man power too... where the hell are all these drone operators supposed to come from and who will protect them from attack while they are operating their drones...

The job of tracking enemy military forces on this battlefield is not that easy... western mercs have already complained they got into firefights with what turned out later to be their own special forces... and how many Orc troops are getting shot while withdrawing either on purpose or by accident?

Don't be so sure. By offering Aislin, for example, you're pressuring Ukrainians to act. It wouldn't look good on UK gov in home front, if Ukrainians didn't accept exchange.

The core problem wiht this conflict has been that Kiev and the west have been claiming it is not about Ukrainians (Kiev) fighting Ukrainians (DNR/LNR)... it is about Kiev fighting Moscow. The Donbass need to make the offer.... this has nothing to do with Russia it is simply not their call... perhaps they could be smart and contact Morocco and make some deal for their guy... but do they even want him back either?

Make that public even if Morocco rejects the offer and that will put pressure on Boris the clown.

Medvedchuk is not British national, Aislin is. If DNR would, for example, publicly announce that they want to exchange Aislin for guy in the video, and UK doesn't pressure Ukrainians to do it, you can say goodbye to public support in UK for Ukrainian cause. UK media would make a field day out of it.

More importantly for the UK Boris the clown has publicly stated that if the UK stopped supporting Kiev he would resign...

Nonsense. Russia has refrained from hitting government decision making centers. It can do that if it wants. With a dead president and a seriously wounded vice president , power of the country could be transferred to a general , who will sue for peace. And then these attacks will stop.

This US controlled regime is the problem. Ukrainians are like Germans in ww2. They carry out any order they are given. So take away the regime that's giving the orders. Try someone else

The problem is that the opposition are in jail or dead and so after 8 years they have had time to feather their nest to be a pyramid of shit... cut the top few knobs of shit off and you are still left with more shit... and it will be shit all the way down.

Killing the current regime makes sense, but don't think they will be replaced by anything good... they might even be competent...

Later on in the conflict when the realisation that they are definitely going to lose and there are alternative voices suggesting ending it sooner rather than later then giving this regime a calibre colonoscopy makes good sense... and get as many as you can...

You are devoid of logic if you think Russia can kill Zelen by bombing, He will be in a fairly well protected place.

They only have to get him once... and I suspect a very high speed missile launched from Belarus airspace could be the ticket.... very short distance there from Belarus to Kiev and Kinzhals move rather fast....

Excuse me Mr President there is a problem... boom.

If he is even in Ukraine.

Probably not which is the real problem.

If Ukrainian apes managed to hit Russian city then Russia didn't deserve to have that city in the first place

Following that logic Russia already owns the Ukraine because they have hit most of their cities by now.

And the Saudis and Pakistanis own New York and where ever the **** the Pentagon is...

You have serious issues you need to work out.  None of what you say makes either sense or is within realms of reality.

Makes sense when you factor in temper tantrums...  

You quoted The president and VP, not the entire government, don't start blurting out different things because you got corrected.

People... repeating conversations is bad... please edit them out... SS and Backman... and Regular and Seph and anyone else doing it...

Whatever Russia does it will be presented in negative light.

Russia was the bad guy before this conflict started and they don't expect that to change... the split with the west is not going to get fixed any time soon and it certainly wont get fixed when it suits the west.

I agree with Papa, that Russia should be ruthless like wild bear. No half measures.

They clearly no longer care about the west but the rest of the world is watching...

Acting like the west in this conflict will make the rest of the world think Russia puts on heirs and graces but deep down are just the same as the west and better the devil you know.

Russia must understand what its mission is. In this forum it seems that there are people who think that this is a conventional war and that all this will end and we will return to normality and daily life. Nothing is further from reality.
This is a metawar, it is a spiritual war. Therefore it is a war of extermination against the forces of evil that embody the West. The West is ready to destroy Russia, to end the world you love. Russia must be ready for anything, including the use of nuclear weapons.

You are right except when considering the use of nuclear weapons it is not a pistol they have tucked under their coat in case a fist fight starts to go against them and they can pull it out for the instant win... nuclear weapons are more like a hand grenade in a chest pocket with the pin tied to a lanyard so pull out the grenade and the pin is already out... potentially everyone dies... because their grenades will go off too and you are fighting in a phone booth.

There is no second planet to run to...

hey @ark , what happened with those world records of S-400? only good for epenis contest ,but
not that good for defending your cities?

One missile got through... that is better performance than any western system has ever shown.

And not just more desperate, they will send better and better weapons and equipment that Kievs less and less capable forces will struggle to get any use out of other than trade in the black market for good money...

Sorry only in Russian. The discussion is about history and religion in the context of this war. The authorities in Lwow have banned
the Orthodox Church of the Russian Patriarchate. This is showing just how insecure even this part of Ukraine is. It has been
dominated by Uniates for over 200 years.

1) Russia needs to go all the way. Liberate the south and east since those are ethnic Russian lands and are no "Ukraine".
This is deadly serious, it is not some mythical history like the FYROM claim on Alexander the Great.

2) Nobody knows the actual thinking of the "Ukrainian" population. Most people are always on the sidelines of politics and
respond when the situation permeates to their immediate vicinity. The population is not automatically anti-Russian and
willing to die in any insurgency. Really, if Russia makes a better offer (e.g. Crimea's experience) the masses will align with it.

3) There was a post 2014 terror campaign in Ukraine where thousands of people were murdered and disappeared. You never
hear about this in any NATzO "news". It is not likely that every last "pro-Russian" (aka not a bootlick of the Banderites) Ukrainian
was exterminated. It also means that there is a base of resentment in the population against Kiev. The sham elections do not
make the Kiev regime popular.

4) Russia needs to go all the way to the Polish border. If the clowns in Lwow are so worried about a residual church presence,
then they must not be resting on a solid foundation of popular support. Given Kissinger's messaging, Russia needs to fully regime
change all of Ukraine. No part should fall into NATzO's orbit. A rump NATzO controlled Ukraine is still a problem. The reason
is that NATzO can hide behind a third party proxy. A biological or nuclear attack from a proxy does not give Russia the optics to
pound NATzO into the sand. So it is much better if Poland takes over the Banderite heartland in the west and the rest of Ukraine
is consigned to history as it never should have been created by the Bolsheviks. The only Ukraine is in the region of Halichyna
and Lwow.

caveat emptor wrote:First phase of Russian attack didn't look like a jackpot to me. That's for sure....

That's putting it generously

It was a colossal fuckup and it nearly handed Ukrainians victory on a silver platter

If those Ukrainians didn't cut the balls off those Russian POWs and uploaded the video this war would have been over in a week and we would have had color revolution in Moscow by now

sepheronx wrote:It sure has worked very well as the general Russian population want even more blood against the Ukrainians. Judging by what I read in comments in various sites and sources, it seems not just Russians want more Ukrainian blood....

So when will Russian government finally deliver that blood?

Because after a while population will get sick of this bullshit and start asking what is the point of all of it

Regular wrote:

sepheronx wrote:I agree with Papa, that Russia should be ruthless like wild bear. No half measures

Sure. Then China and India will have no choice but to stop backing Russia. And then Russia's economy really goes south....

Why would China and India give a crap?

China and India had no problems supporting USA from Vietnam War all the way​ to Syria, you think they will give a shit about some Ukrainian apes?

sepheronx wrote:Also, the number of dead in the Belgorod attack is now at 5....

They will get thoughts and prayers and not a diddly squat more

Which is still more than what those new Russian eunuchs will be getting

caveat emptor wrote:Pics from Zmeini island during withdrawal of troops on June 29th.
...

Same energy and spin



Fortunately island was uninhabited