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Big_Gazza wrote:Airbornewolf wrote:compilation i made to fill the void.
Excellent stuff!!Very stirring, and had my fist pumping the air a few times!
Big thanks.
i am glad to hear you liked it!.
Force Z.O.V all the way!!.
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Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21
Airbornewolf- Posts : 1524
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- Post n°751
Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21
Airbornewolf Sat Jul 30, 2022 4:46 am
i am glad to hear you liked it!.
Force Z.O.V all the way!!.
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mnztr- Posts : 2898
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Airbornewolf wrote:compilation i made to fill the void.
that footage of the TOS1 rockets hitting the buildings at Azovstal is pretty mind bending. Those are large buildings just torn to shreds by a single missile. HOLY ****!!!
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Regular- Posts : 3894
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sepheronx wrote:Regular wrote:Any theories about what Ukrainians will get when Lend Lease starts in September?
There are so many of them being trained in UK, Poland and Germany.
It will be interesting to see what West has to "offer"
Ukrainians were trained and equipped for last 8 years. Who gives a crap, these rag tags won't end doing anything.
By looking at their performance, they probably squandered money for training and drank goryachka during it.
I am more interested in what equipment they will bring
Mir
Mir- Posts : 3835
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Big_Gazza wrote:Antonovsky bridge in Kherson was damaged during the shelling of the Armed Forces of Ukraine...
..but that didn't stop local traffic from using it
Thats a nice "up yours" from the local Kherson population. Get stuffed Kiev, we ain't coming back.
Those "potholes" reminds me of "home" here in Africa
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Mir- Posts : 3835
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I am quite shocked to see that German quality steel is not up to scratch anymore 
https://www.rt.com/news/559864-german-artillery-fail-ukraine/
https://www.rt.com/news/559864-german-artillery-fail-ukraine/
German weapons failing in Ukraine – media
The howitzers apparently can’t handle the demands of combat
German artillery guns are breaking down a month after they were delivered to Ukraine, Der Spiegel reported on Friday. The weapons are reportedly struggling to deal with the high rate of fire the Ukrainian military is subjecting them to.
Some of the seven Panzerhaubitze 2000 guns sent to Ukraine at the end of June are showing signs of “wear and tear,” the German news site reported, citing anonymous sources. Some of the hardware is displaying error messages and are in need of repair.
The German military believes that the problems stem from the sheer number of shells fired on a daily basis by Ukrainian forces, which is damaging the howitzers’ loading mechanism. Discharging 100 rounds per day is considered high-intensity use, the report noted, adding that the Ukrainians are firing “far more” than this number.
The Panzerhaubitze 2000s are not the only foreign weapon to seemingly be failing on the Ukrainian battlefield. Captured Ukrainian troops have described the Javelin missile launchers – shoulder-fired units sent by both the UK and the US – as “completely useless” in urban combat, while soldiers are reportedly encountering battery issues with the NLAW “making it impossible to use.”
Germany’s Gepard anti-aircraft tanks, of which five have been given to Ukraine, have encountered compatibility issues with their Norwegian ammunition too, Der Spiegel noted. This mixing and matching of weapons systems from different suppliers has been identified by British and American analysts as presenting a “serious challenge” for Kiev.
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xeno- Posts : 269
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Yes, it is discussed on other forums too. People have never known that Panzerhaubitze 2000 has this "feature" that it can't handle 100 rounds per day. It was considered the best SPG in the world before Koalitsiya was introduced by Russia...
ALAMO- Posts : 7518
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d_taddei2 wrote:
As for gepard and shilka comments. Shilka isn't a bad system and has at least enjoyed upgrades over the years, updated electronics, radar etc, and the addition of MANPADS or strela -10 missiles, a cheap missile/gun system that's all a beast at ground fire support.
The case with ZSU family is a lack of proper ammo. And lack of proper ammo is due to the round size limits. You cant resolve that. Plus as it was effective against soft-skinned, low-flying aircraft, next-generation planes started to fly faster&higher, while choppers became more and more resistant.
Modernization proposals all circle around the very similar or same concept, let it be Soviet M4, M5 od Polish MP - it is linking them with battery level command post, adding missiles, tracking system and passivization of units. Russia and Belarus were both able to refurbish or replace with brand new the Achilles heel of Shilka - magnetron unit - so the radar stayed, while supplemented by passive observation channels. That's why the passivization was achieved by battery-level data distribution. Poland wasn't able to modernize magnetrons, so MP uses a totally new search&track head with thermo and TV channel, while radar is gone. Poland introduced APDS-T round to it as well.
All the mods made in years were hardly serial, and that applies to Russian, Belarusian, and Polish ones. You can count the number of modified pieces with two hands in total...
I guess the most extensive modernization of Shilkas was performed in countries like Cuba and Vietnam.
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Regular- Posts : 3894
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xeno wrote:Yes, it is discussed on other forums too. People have never known that Panzerhaubitze 2000 has this "feature" that it can't handle 100 rounds per day. It was considered the best SPG in the world before Koalitsiya was introduced by Russia...
What about HIMARS? These are very light launchers and it seems that there are loads of power transferred to them during their firing. Where Ukraine will service them?
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RTN- Posts : 758
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Russia’s use of air-launched anti-ship missiles with only and limited secondary land-attack capability to attempt to strike Ukrainian targets suggests its dedicated land-attack cruise missile inventory is running low.
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Tolstoy- Posts : 239
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The C-919 is powered by an Anglo-French engine called the LEAP-1C. China couldn't even design the engine's nacelle, thrust reverser and exhaust system and so they are being imported from Nexcelle.Isos wrote: Add to this China has finished tests of its C-919 and will start producing it in the next week/months which will make airbus and boeing loose a huge market. They just saw what they did to Russia so they certainly won't let their air companies be 100% dependant on those two producers.
Even Russia wasn't successful in exporting the Sukhoi Superjet 100 because the PowerJet SaM146 engine was being designed jointly with France and the latter ensured that Superjet won't be able to rival Airbus. Airbus and Boeing are not going to lose market share for a long period of time.
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RTN wrote:Russia’s use of air-launched anti-ship missiles with only and limited secondary land-attack capability to attempt to strike Ukrainian targets suggests its dedicated land-attack cruise missile inventory is running low.
Yes obviously duh!
But it is quite common practice these days (check out all the NATzo wars) that they do test certain weapons to see how they will perform in a real conflict environment, so who knows maybe they are just checking the specs
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franco- Posts : 7057
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For those trying to track Ukrainian units;
Here is a list of 90 Ukrainian brigades which I was able to see some evidence of in this war or at least mentioned to have existed while this war was ongoing and their current state/location.
This is NOT exhaustive and may include mistakes, but I am open to hearing them. Trapped Ion@SyriaObReloaded
https://twitter.com/SyriaObReloaded/status/1553290587276685312/photo/1
Here is a list of 90 Ukrainian brigades which I was able to see some evidence of in this war or at least mentioned to have existed while this war was ongoing and their current state/location.
This is NOT exhaustive and may include mistakes, but I am open to hearing them. Trapped Ion@SyriaObReloaded
https://twitter.com/SyriaObReloaded/status/1553290587276685312/photo/1
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Mir wrote:Big_Gazza wrote:Antonovsky bridge in Kherson was damaged during the shelling of the Armed Forces of Ukraine...
..but that didn't stop local traffic from using it
https://i.servimg.com/u/f60/19/14/38/61/anton_10.png
Thats a nice "up yours" from the local Kherson population. Get stuffed Kiev, we ain't coming back.
Those "potholes" reminds me of "home" here in Africa
It is the normal state of roads in Ukraine for many years. So for the locals it is nothing new
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d_taddei2- Posts : 3028
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- Post n°764
Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21
d_taddei2 Sat Jul 30, 2022 12:37 pm
the UK is pretty much the sameMir wrote:Big_Gazza wrote:Antonovsky bridge in Kherson was damaged during the shelling of the Armed Forces of Ukraine...
..but that didn't stop local traffic from using it
Thats a nice "up yours" from the local Kherson population. Get stuffed Kiev, we ain't coming back.
Those "potholes" reminds me of "home" here in Africa
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xeno wrote:Yes, it is discussed on other forums too. People have never known that Panzerhaubitze 2000 has this "feature" that it can't handle 100 rounds per day. It was considered the best SPG in the world before Koalitsiya was introduced by Russia...
Peculiar for the discussion to not refer to its rated total number of rounds. All howitzers have a rather short life given the intensity of their use
in Ukria. It is hard to tell if this wear and tear is normal or abnormal. Sounds to me like a bunch of wunderwaffen fetishists are surprised
that guns wear out and fast.
I recall that Soviet/Russian guns have several thousand round lifetimes. NATzO weapons are not going to be any better in this regard.
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d_taddei2 wrote:Rumours and I stress the word rumours, are flying around that Ukrainian troops are highly disgruntled and are planning on surrendering in Donbass to end the war they plan to do this within the next 3-4 weeks.
Although rumours I find it difficult to believe if your planning on surrendering why wait 3-4 weeks?
This is not likely to be a plan but an expectation when the collapse will happen. This explains why the Kiev regime forces are
killing their own POWs under Russian guard. The message is fight to the death on the front or die even if you think that you
escaped death by surrendering.
But this sort of terrorism is not going to save the Kiev regime. It will not even slow down the Russian campaign.
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- Post n°767
Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21
d_taddei2 Sat Jul 30, 2022 12:52 pm
ALAMO wrote:d_taddei2 wrote:
As for gepard and shilka comments. Shilka isn't a bad system and has at least enjoyed upgrades over the years, updated electronics, radar etc, and the addition of MANPADS or strela -10 missiles, a cheap missile/gun system that's all a beast at ground fire support.
The case with ZSU family is a lack of proper ammo. And lack of proper ammo is due to the round size limits. You cant resolve that. Plus as it was effective against soft-skinned, low-flying aircraft, next-generation planes started to fly faster&higher, while choppers became more and more resistant.
Modernization proposals all circle around the very similar or same concept, let it be Soviet M4, M5 od Polish MP - it is linking them with battery level command post, adding missiles, tracking system and passivization of units. Russia and Belarus were both able to refurbish or replace with brand new the Achilles heel of Shilka - magnetron unit - so the radar stayed, while supplemented by passive observation channels. That's why the passivization was achieved by battery-level data distribution. Poland wasn't able to modernize magnetrons, so MP uses a totally new search&track head with thermo and TV channel, while radar is gone. Poland introduced APDS-T round to it as well.
All the mods made in years were hardly serial, and that applies to Russian, Belarusian, and Polish ones. You can count the number of modified pieces with two hands in total...
I guess the most extensive modernization of Shilkas was performed in countries like Cuba and Vietnam.
I read an article last year about an African country had some delivered a few years back which had upgrades done. Also India did their own upgrades adding AESA Fire Control Radar, around 75 were upgraded, with more being done. The same upgrades were applied to zu-23-2. I have quite a few pics of various upgrades. Although I believe the upgrades are more aimed at poorer countries that already use the system. To me the upgrades are better looked at from the other way round. If it upgraded with MANPADS I see it as a tracked strelets with zsu-23-4 guns/zu-23-2. Or if armed with strela-10 missiles it's a strela-10 armed with additional guns, both with the added bonus that they can also engage ground targets pretty viciously. Although different platforms it's still self propelled. The beauty about the zu-23-2 the upgrades can be applied in towed version, wheeled tracked on various platforms
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Mir- Posts : 3835
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kvs wrote:
Peculiar for the discussion to not refer to its rated total number of rounds. All howitzers have a rather short life given the intensity of their use
in Ukria. It is hard to tell if this wear and tear is normal or abnormal. Sounds to me like a bunch of wunderwaffen fetishists are surprised
that guns wear out and fast.
I recall that Soviet/Russian guns have several thousand round lifetimes. NATzO weapons are not going to be any better in this regard.
At the time South Africa had some of the best artillery pieces (G-5/G-6) but they lost the ability to manufacture replacement barrels. Most of these pieces are now in storage. Even the basic service rifle can't be serviced properly anymore, but we do have some of the biggest potholes.
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ALAMO- Posts : 7518
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kvs wrote:xeno wrote:Yes, it is discussed on other forums too. People have never known that Panzerhaubitze 2000 has this "feature" that it can't handle 100 rounds per day. It was considered the best SPG in the world before Koalitsiya was introduced by Russia...
Peculiar for the discussion to not refer to its rated total number of rounds. All howitzers have a rather short life given the intensity of their use
in Ukria. It is hard to tell if this wear and tear is normal or abnormal. Sounds to me like a bunch of wunderwaffen fetishists are surprised
that guns wear out and fast.
I recall that Soviet/Russian guns have several thousand round lifetimes. NATzO weapons are not going to be any better in this regard.
The point of the story in Spiegel is, that what makes PzH2k extraordinary - the rate of fire - is what makes problems at the end.
The loading system turned out to be delicate and unfit for lasting an intense fire rate for long. Subsystems are malfunctioning one by one due to applied stress and loads.
d_taddei2 wrote:
I read an article last year about an African country had some delivered a few years back which had upgrades done. Also India did their own upgrades adding AESA Fire Control Radar, around 75 were upgraded, with more being done. The same upgrades were applied to zu-23-2. I have quite a few pics of various upgrades. Although I believe the upgrades are more aimed at poorer countries that already use the system. To me the upgrades are better looked at from the other way round. If it upgraded with MANPADS I see it as a tracked strelets with zsu-23-4 guns/zu-23-2. Or if armed with strela-10 missiles it's a strela-10 armed with additional guns, both with the added bonus that they can also engage ground targets pretty viciously. Although different platforms it's still self propelled. The beauty about the zu-23-2 the upgrades can be applied in towed version, wheeled tracked on various platforms
Core problem of being old can't be resolved
It lacks the engagement envelope. I guess that sooner or later, all will just end up as ground support vehicles as you said.
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T 90M
https://m.vk.com/video-123538639_456287472
https://m.vk.com/video-123538639_456287472
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Its main problem is that its overengineered.ALAMO wrote:
The point of the story in Spiegel is, that what makes PzH2k extraordinary - the rate of fire - is what makes problems at the end.
The loading system turned out to be delicate and unfit for lasting an intense fire rate for long. Subsystems are malfunctioning one by one due to applied stress and loads.
A lot of that extra engineering went into alleviating the self-imposed problem of stowing the shell in the least convenient place possible in the hull.
If they just placed the shell in the bustle like in the Msta-S, they wouldn't have to bother with not one, but two rotating arms to load the shells.
The Koreans got that part right. Unfortunately, they didn't quite stick the landing.
Now they have 2 multi-axis robot arms to help feed the gun! I don't even know how many conveyor belts is in this thing. Is this artillery or an assembly line?
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ALAMO- Posts : 7518
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lyle6 wrote:
Its main problem is that its overengineered.
It is a German heritage bro!
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ALAMO wrote:d_taddei2 wrote:
I read an article last year about an African country had some delivered a few years back which had upgrades done. Also India did their own upgrades adding AESA Fire Control Radar, around 75 were upgraded, with more being done. The same upgrades were applied to zu-23-2. I have quite a few pics of various upgrades. Although I believe the upgrades are more aimed at poorer countries that already use the system. To me the upgrades are better looked at from the other way round. If it upgraded with MANPADS I see it as a tracked strelets with zsu-23-4 guns/zu-23-2. Or if armed with strela-10 missiles it's a strela-10 armed with additional guns, both with the added bonus that they can also engage ground targets pretty viciously. Although different platforms it's still self propelled. The beauty about the zu-23-2 the upgrades can be applied in towed version, wheeled tracked on various platforms
Core problem of being old can't be resolved
It lacks the engagement envelope. I guess that sooner or later, all will just end up as ground support vehicles as you said.
In Syria and Afghanistan they were removing all the anti aircraft electronics which wasn't needed, which made it lighter although in Afghanistan that was all they did. However in Syria with the reduced weight, allowed them to add crude metal plates and caged armour filled with sandbags, to give the system additional protection and used as ground fire support.
Although the range of the system for anti air is limited what is overlooked is most people only look at effective range but forget that the rounds will still travel a few km further and that could still endanger an aircraft or helicopter. And of course if anything gets within the effective range they are going to get shredded. And remember that these systems don't always get detected, If sitting camouflaged and a helicopter doesn't notice it and gets within range that helicopter will be in trouble. It's also good in mountainous areas and targeting high rise blocks of accommodation with the high elevation. a sort of cheap BMPT without the missiles although I am sure that a poor nation could easily add Konkurs or AT-6 to it.
Last edited by d_taddei2 on Sat Jul 30, 2022 4:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
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- Post n°774
Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21
billybatts91 Sat Jul 30, 2022 2:40 pm
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- Post n°775
Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21
billybatts91 Sat Jul 30, 2022 2:44 pm
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