Russian special military operation in Ukraine #22

flamming_python wrote:Russia always shoots itself in the foot by allowing Ukrs these phantom victories. Whether Snake island, or the Mi-24 raid on Belgorod, sinking of the Moskva and so on.
Even if this village is completely insignificant, it will be used to boost morale and cancel out the deaths of thousands of soldiers Zelensky sent to commit suicide by Russia. Cancel out the bungled attempt on the Zaporozhie NPP.

That Ukr propaganda is completely delusional and the many who listen to it more so is obvious, but they will to continue to throw themselves like lemmings to die to Russian artillery and air-power unless their morale is blown to pieces and their faith in their foreign puppet leadership is broken. And there's a fantastic opportunity to do so by the conclusion of this offensive by simply denying them any territorial gains whatsoever; or better yet commit to a counter-attack and throw them back from their starting positions, break their defensive lines and attempt to follow through into a rout. Force their units into a chaotic retreat and their morale along with them.
It's time to end this meat-grinder that London and Washington organized and their servants in Kiev continue to implement day after day for their own people. It does not serve Russia's best interests among other things, to end up in control of this barren shell-shocked land, where every male between 18-50 years old is either dead, crippled or has emigrated, and the rest are consumed by grief or anger.

Hole wrote:

Is this where the Chechens attacked?

flamming_python wrote:One way or the other, the chance is now.
Whatever Russia has to do it must do it now, against the backdrop of this catastrophic failure by Zelensky and his Western patrons. His authority will be at a low, morale will be at a low - and neither that nor the other should be allowed to recover.

franco wrote:
My understanding is the Chechens and 2nd Corps (Lugansk) doing the top of the line, PMC (Wagner) and 2nd Corps doing the middle while the southern part (your question) of the line is from the 1st Corps (Donetsk).

franco wrote:Apparently the Ukrainians doing their 4th (?) wave of attacks in Kherson. Appears to be mostly infantry attacks... cannot imagine there would be much else left. We will see after the "fog" lifts.  

flamming_python wrote:That Ukr propaganda is completely delusional and the many who listen to it more so is obvious, but they will to continue to throw themselves like lemmings to die to Russian artillery and air-power...

flamming_python wrote:...unless their morale is blown to pieces and their faith in their foreign puppet leadership is broken...

flamming_python wrote:...It does not serve Russia's best interests among other things, to end up in control of this barren shell-shocked land, where every male between 18-50 years old is either dead, crippled or has emigrated, and the rest are consumed by grief or anger...

flamming_python wrote:One way or the other, the chance is now.

Whatever Russia has to do it must do it now, against the backdrop of this catastrophic failure by Zelensky and his Western patrons...

VARGR198 wrote:Some of the statues of men seem to still have damage on them, but I think this has been left this way deliberately.

franco wrote:Apparently the Ukrainians doing their 4th (?) wave of attacks in Kherson. Appears to be mostly infantry attacks... cannot imagine there would be much else left. We will see after the "fog" lifts.  

Hole wrote:
Send the junk back to the Netherlands.

VARGR198 wrote:

Some of the statues of men seem to still have damage on them, but I think this has been left this way deliberately.

PapaDragon wrote:

flamming_python wrote:That Ukr propaganda is completely delusional and the many who listen to it more so is obvious, but they will to continue to throw themselves like lemmings to die to Russian artillery and air-power...

I am failing to see the problem with this

Zelenski is the best resource Russia has in Ukraine, as long as he keeps sending gleeful Nazis for collective euthanasia he must not be touched, this is once in a millennia opportunity

Arrow wrote:

What is this nonsense. Would Putin would be so stupid as to believe that the UA would not join NATO and give up all the territory it took? Whether or not Ukraine would be in NATO, US troops would enter Ukraine a few days after such an agreement. Russia could not be so stupid to enter into such agreements is absurd.That would make them even stupider than the USSR authorities who believed NATO would not expand eastward.

On Tuesday, Turkey hosted the latest round of peace talks between Russia and Ukraine. The Ukrainian side has come up with a written proposal for a peace treaty between the two nations, Russia’s top negotiator Vladimir Medinsky told the media after the session, which he described as “substantive.”

The proposal will now be relayed to Russian President Vladimir Putin for consideration, he added. Here is what else emerged after the talks.

Russian offensive scaled down
An immediate practical effect of the talks will be a de-escalation of military activities in some parts of Ukraine, the Russian Defense Ministry announced. In particular, it pledged to “dramatically” reduce its operations near the cities of Chernigov and the capital, Kiev.

NATO-like security guarantees
David Arakhamia, Medinsky’s opposite number in the Ukrainian delegation, said Kiev had sought a security guarantee similar to that contained in Article 5 of the North Atlantic Treaty. He named Russia, the UK, China, the US, Turkey, France, Canada, Italy, Poland and Israel as possible providers. Some of them have given their preliminary agreement, he said.

No military blocs and non-nuclear Ukraine
In the proposal, Ukraine pledged not to join any military alliance, not to host foreign military bases or foreign troops, Medinsky said. Even military exercises would require prior approval from guarantors, according to the proposal. Kiev also pledged not to seek to obtain weapons of mass destruction, including nuclear weapons, the official added. But in return Ukraine wants Russia not to object to its joining the EU one day.

Crimea, Donbass unresolved
According to Medinsky, Kiev offered a 15-year moratorium on the status of Crimea, during which its fate would be negotiated and both sides would pledge not to use military force to resolve it. This is not compatible with Russia’s position that Crimea is part of its territory and Kiev needs to recognize it as such.

Ukraine also sought to include “parts” of the Donetsk and Lugansk regions into the definition of its territory for the purpose of security guarantees, the Russian envoy said. Moscow officially recognized the Donetsk and Lugansk People’s Republics as sovereign states – in their full regional boundaries – just days before sending troops into Ukraine last month.

Borders in question
Medinsky said Kiev did not state whether it would relinquish its territorial claim to Donetsk and Lugansk. Prior to February, Ukraine controlled a large portion of both Donetsk and Lugansk and considers the regions to be its own territory.

Arakhamia made it clear that Kiev will assert sovereignty over the entire territory that Ukraine had when it declared independence in 1991, saying there could be no compromise on this point.

New conditions for Zelensky-Putin meeting
Moscow has agreed to organize a meeting between Putin and his Ukrainian counterpart Volodymyr Zelensky as part of the final phase of negotiations over the future peace treaty. The Kremlin had previously said that such a meeting could only be scheduled once the document was finalized and inked by the respective foreign ministers. 

psg wrote:Wtf is this bullshit, Russia needs to go all the way to moldova, take Odessa back, leave ukr landlocked.

They need to rout ALL the remnants of the scourge nazis, once and for all. It should of been done straight after the great patriotic war.

The opportunity is now, take it all back, bury them bastards, clearly they don't want to live for themselves or their families. They just hooked on the western bs promises, like a whore on drugs.

ALAMO wrote:Italy never had Leopard 2. They had some 1s indeed, and in the sole A2 version both imported from Germany and produced locally. I guess this is a mixed rumor. Maybe there was a talk about supplying Leopards, Leo1A2 was the only option on the table, and it turned to be Leo2 at the end for Russkie propaganda machine.

Hole wrote:Send the junk back to the Netherlands.

Arkanghelsk wrote:It seems hohols had some temporary success in this settlement

flamming_python wrote:It's time to end this meat-grinder that London and Washington organized and their servants in Kiev continue to implement day after day for their own people.