Garry the case to reintegrate Novorossiya early on is overwhelming.
That is likely very true, but we can't really second guess what the actual locals want.
This is a place that has been in conflict for almost a decade, and we need to look at what they have and don't have... in the last 8 years there has likely been a lot of people just moving away to avoid being killed... if Russia can secure the land and make it safe and eliminate the Orcs and nazis trying to kill people there then many of those people might want to move back again.
Whether they want their own new country or to be a new region that is part of the Russian federation can only be decided by the people there which means a referendum.
It is not for Putin or you or me to dictate to anyone what should happen because if we do and the people reject it then in all likelyhood someone is going to take advantage of the dissatisfaction to start another conflict...
Obviously the referendum wont have any options that Russia does not approve of, which means the west will claim it is BS, but as Russia is likely to be a major trading partner for any new regions created I think rejection by the west wont actually matter very much.
The Pukraine died and now the pro Russian half want their lives back, not living next door to fascist filth.
You're sounding like one of those doomers/5th columnists if you are seriously denying that.
This operation has to continue until the genuine people of the place can have a choice for themselves... means a lot of orcs and nazis need to be removed from the equation to avoid any bias.
Its an area you haven't understood from the beginning.
The locals can't make any demands... there are plenty of them taking up arms and helping themselves, but Russian forces need to play this smart and not lose troops for ego or protecting land... land doesn't move and so they can capture it later... during WWII cities were captured and lost multiple times... no one is going to lose a fighting force defending something they will lose anyway... it just does not make sense to throw away trained fighters like that.
Looking at the western footage and the footage shown here the material left behind by the Russians were mostly tanks and other fuel dependent vehicles... T-80s with gas turbine engines. No Tigrs or other light vehicles seemed to be left behind in the videos I watched.
They could put some GLONASS transmitters in them to find out where they take them for overhauls and repairs so they know where to bomb for all we know.
And I assure you that Pinochet would have swept Ukraine and would not walk with humanity and "special operation." This is stupidity of Putin for not wanting to bear the costs of any war. War is war. If young Russians must go to die, let them do so. It is destiny. Otherwise, you are not prepared to fight in the destiny of nations. You were simply a Paper Tiger.
Fighting smart is not a fault. The Russian economy is booming, the western economies are suffering, the balance of casualties in the Ukraine conflict favours Russian forces by a wide margin and this withdrawal has led to that not changing more in the Orcs favour.
This is a desperate all or nothing move by the Ukraine presumably before Winter starts... when the leaves fall off the trees then thermal imagers come in to their own... hot spots revealing positions and trees not concealing things on the ground from the air so effectively... not to mention movement leaving tracks in the snow...
Having control of the air will be very valuable and very one sided...
The Russians should stop waving so many red flags in the Ukraine. That brings bad luck.
It is important that they let the west know what the right thing to do is even though most of the time they will do the opposite.
As things get worse and worse it will become harder for them to get away with just blindly dancing over those red lines.
Would love to see one reaction to the US providing new equipment to the Ukraine that Russia starts supplying Su-35s to Iran and Egypt and North Korea... and even Argentina, or perhaps Argentina might want some Su-24s upgraded to be gifted to them with some Kh-31s and Kh-35s... Russia could have a lot of fun.
Communism is a failure, misery, inefficiency, it is an ideology of idiots. It is a Jewish ideology, unnatural with no ties to the peoples.
All the problems in Ukraine are due to Communism, not Nazism. You have the Ukrainians as enemies for not having integrated them ethnically.
Can you imagine the Germans killing the Bavarians or Austrians?
Communism has been enormously successful in China where a liberal democracy would change policy and be open to corruption and abuse by western powers, China has been consistent and looked out for the countries interests rather than politicians out for money.
Ukraine is in the midst of a fire sale and is democracy personified... anything of value is being bought up by rich foreigners, and it is the people who suffer with their pensions stolen and losing their jobs... and this is what the west wants to do to Russia and China and every other country on the planet.
These are the consequences of communism. unnatural ideology.
Actually communal living is more natural than western democracy... despite being invented quite some time ago real democracy as we know it hasn't existed except for the last hundred years at best. If you didn't own land you didn't get a vote... if you were a woman you didn't get a vote... if you were the wrong colour you couldn't own land which also meant you couldn't vote...
These are the consequences of communism. unnatural ideology. And some idiots in the forum walk with red flags and with Che Guevera
I am not a Nazi. Argentina was always pro-German. The army was trained by Prussians. And for ethnic reasons. After the Italians and Spanish, the country has the Germans as the third ethnic group.
Most of the people carrying Soviet Red flags in pictures in this conflict are Ukrainians who are not happy with the Ukraine was created that was supposed to be their country and ended up shelling and bombing and burning them to death... it is not about communism, it is about a time when the Soviet Union existed and things weren't so fucked up like they are now in the Ukraine largely due to the policies of the US and UK and Germany and the EU.
With Ukrainian bridges washed away..how Ukrainian will try to rescue anyone got trapped there ? I can see some Azovstal like attempt but this will be rather risky with even Su-25 or Ka-52 prowling around the area.
Now we know why they didn't bother blowing them up...
Let them send heavy equipment over those bridges and then wash them away.
well the Americans and British in Afghanistan and Iraq , had a very fast rotation for their troops ( here , I am not just talking about greater numbers ) . This fast rotation , with fresh troops had much less to do with troop exhaustion , and had much more to do with using the killing grounds , to allow their citizens to be battle hardened ,
They were more COIN operations for which their military forces were massively overkill, the Afghans and Iraqis did not really have much chance of winning or even doing that much damage. Ukraine is more of a peer enemy and is being supported and funded by the west.
There is no need to traumatise large portions of the Russian population for this conflict.
The US made up the lack of numbers in Afghanistan and Iraq by inviting HATO to send cannon fodder and also to use private companies like Blackwater for the more dodgy regions where they might lose troops.
Another red line ?
Russian Foreign Ministry: If the US decides to supply Kiev with longer-range missiles, they will cross the red line and become a party to the conflict
More than that... they are saying the US becomes legitimate targets in this conflict if they supply longer ranged missiles... so targets they have not hit yet because there are Americans present will be hit and presumably the supply lines reaching into the country will be hit harder...
I think I've got one inflatable armband for them from when I was learning to swim at age 5.
Fill it with sand before you send it...
Now this is beginning to look like a war. https://twitter.com/mdfzeh/status/1570337708740055041 and it seems the river has cut off some ukrainian forces from the rest of their groups. looks like it was a well layed trap.
But everyone saying it might be a trap was an idiot and this is a humiliation and Putin needs to resign...
I understand that there is an economic dimension to this war and that mobilisation would only put unnecessary strains on the Russian economy... but why can't Russia deploy at least 300k troops?
What changes would that make on the battlefield?
It would make Kievs demands for help seem harder to refuse, but would it kill more Orcs on the battlefield?
The plan will be to split the Ukraine in 3 or so.
Well they aren't getting Crimea back, and Donbass and Lugansk...
I would expect Russia will get a surrender from Kiev or a collapse and then send troops to keep the peace and hold referendums giving the people the choice.... I suspect different regions will get different choices, but none of the regions will have the choice to join the EU or HATO.
There will be regions wanting to join the RF I suspect but there will likely be more who just want independence from Kiev, some will want good relations with the west and are not so interested with relations with Russia and those regions will get limited options... perhaps people from the Donbass or Lugansk can rule them they way they tried to rule those regions against their peoples wishes... irony?
Everyone including Putin himself and his economics team under estimated the economy themselves. They were expecting a 10-12% reduction in GDP.
There's no way 300,000 troops (calling up 220,000 more troops) is going to damage the economy.
They might call up 300K troops if Kiev capitulates as a military force to go in and maintain order while referendums and regions are decided and agreed upon, but that is some way away yet.
Because Putin is afraid of generating resistance in society. Nor is it a military problem.
I doubt very much makes Putin afraid, the fact that the west hates him so much proves his value over and over... if he was a useless coward, a bumbling idiot the west would not criticise him at all... in fact the Americans and the British might elect him their leader.
Brussels might put him in charge of the EU...
About the Russian economy. The sanctions are already there. They can't do any more damage. And the west is going to be badly damaged in winter
Winter effects Russians too, but the west are cutting off their energy supplies so of course their position is much worse and by timing it correctly Putin can really stick the boot in simply by cutting off all energy supplies to the EU in the middle of winter... give them no time to organise alternatives... cut Uranium supplies to US nuclear power stations...
Now, the longer you take to organize an offensive, use junk instead of your best weapons, when you make stupid military mistakes, the war drags on and that affects the economy.
Using second rate vehicles and you are still not losing soldiers... who cares how long it drags on... the US is about 50 billion invested in this conflict at a time when other things need money to be spent to fix inside the US... the west is shifting most of its ammo and available weapon systems to Ukraine to be destroyed on the battlefield or sold on the black market... why would Putin want to end this any time soon... Orcs are dying at a rate of 1K per day, and the nazis are getting killed in rear areas too... the ones that love the front line are probably already gone so it is the ones hiding in the background that they need to get now, and it seems they are.
Just some American educated or born advisors and politicians need to be cleaned up and things are actually looking rather good.
Every withdrawal is a defeat.
Stalingrad was a withdrawal... the Germans pushed the Soviets all the way back to the city and then pushed and pushed till the Soviets only occupied a few square kilometres of the city... and then the reserves they had been building up on the other side of the river closed the trap around the german soldiers now trapped inside the city and destroyed them.
The Germans lost an army there.
If I follow your criteria, the USA Americans also withdrew from Afghanistan with minimal casualties. They occupied the country for 20 years, stole the resources and then left.
They didn't run like rats trying to export that farce of liberal democracy and because of the lack of preparation of their recruits (stupid obese teenagers and brown immigrants fighting for citizenship)
In both cases a withdrawal was the best they could do, except if the Taliban were as nasty as the Ukrainians or the Americans themselves that withdrawal from Kabul would have been a blood bath.
The 13 Americans killed by that ISIS bomber were peanuts... they murdered 150 other people at the site of the blast when they opened fire and murdered 150 of the other people wanting to leave with them... their former helpers... a few hours later they murdered a man and his children and his neighbours children who also worked for them because they claimed he was ISIS.
Interesting that Kiev is so desperate for the west to impose a no fly zone over their country... the US military imposed their own no fly zone over Afghanistan when they withdrew their air power 3 months before their ground forces left.
Not in panic anymore since I think I understand what they are trying to do 1st, before escalating the issue like mobilization. I am upset how no one here is praising the Russians for flooding the dam by dividing Ukraine army to massacre them easier while the other group has to take a 200km detour around to get to the same place.
Explains why they didn't blow them up.
I mean if they mobilized just their professional army. Which wouldn't require a draft.
But why... what would they do?
Would you use them for frontal assaults because of their number?
So use them as cannon fodder... how is that working out for Kiev?
I began to doubt Russia the moment I saw how the Ukrainians use drones to the fullest, and the Russians found out late.
The effectiveness of Russian artillery has been outstanding... they use a lot of drones.
How can it be that a country with the technology and scientific resources of Russian has to buy second-hand drones from the Iranians. That is not propaganda.
The US State department walked back all those claims...
Didn't you realize they were important in modern warfare? You couldn't create an electronic warfare program? that sabotages the drones.
It reminds me of how the first world war started with the cavalry facing the machine guns. This is unacceptable for a country like Russia.
Ukraine had more soldiers than the Russian forces that were sent to deal with them and still are being slaughtered and you whine about drones?
There are a lot of ppl on the fence and they don't know what the truth is about this war. The initial retreats were being successfully explained away by the Russia supporting side. But then boom, all of a sudden Ukraine just takes a ton of territory.
Most of the territory is empty so they "took" it uncontested.
They built up a very large force that outnumbered Russian forces 10 to one and they rushed them... they used men to soak up the enemies advantage in artillery and air power... if you want to call it a victory for Kiev it was a horrible costly victory they are now out in the open and will very much struggle to hold on to... and when they lose it they wont get all those men killed back... they will be where they were before minus about 30K soldiers and their equipment and vehicles.
Not to mention the ammo and fuel burned up on this counter attack that they will struggle to replace.
Anyone who was on the fence about this war has been lost now. All they have to do is look at a map. Propaganda wise , it's just an impossible task now to win anyone over who's unsure.
Newsflash... people on fences don't win conflicts... whether they choose a side or get pushed one way or another by western propaganda means nothing at all in this conflict. Russia was always going to lose in the western media, there was never any chance of a win for Putin in this conflict or in anything else.
Give you an example.... the Sydney Morning Herald: Newsflash Bronzed Aussie Hero saves boy from tiger escaped from Zoo by punching it in the face... turns out the heros name was Big Gazza... headline the following morning... Stinking Pommy Bastard injures boys pet cat by assaulting it.
Putin and Russia can't win in western media... but you know what... that is OK... because as was seen in South Ossetia and Abkhazia and Crimea... they don't have to.
The universe works just fine without western approval.
I am not a neoliberal, but you need private property and free enterprise. The socialists repress this to spread corruption and to give alms to parasitic and unproductive sectors.
Free enterprise is a good thing but when everything is for sale then money becomes power and as people get rich they get powerful and they use that power to get even richer which makes them above the law.
Do you think directors all over the world don't get sexual favours from pretty actresses wanting to get the job... thousands applying for each job and most could do a good job... you have the power to get them seen and start their careers, but you say corruption and evil comes from communism... that is only because the west calls corruption different things... I am not bribing politicians to change laws so my company can make more money, I am a lobbiest who thinks my companies experience in the field should mean it should be part of the group who decides on new laws and regulations for our industry... with full voting rights an vetos.
Ironically you look at the western Military industrial complex and compare it with the Russian one and tell me about corruption.
Shit Embarassed
You are right!
But I can pay and get some papers for being retarded, and what then?
The sky is the limit, no borders, everything is possible and allowed!
I can even use a "N" words, "F" words, and ANY words!
Gee, I have found a golden gate!
That reminded me of the South Park episode where Cartman learns about Tourette syndrome and starts singing that he has a golden ticket...
The freedom to say anything he likes... of course it backfires on him.
This is how to do it. Don't look big bombs.
They are IIR guided LMUR missiles... 25-30kg HE warheads.
Like I said, I hope I'm wrong but experience have taught me what to expect in these situations and this one has all the recognizable symptoms
Putin has given up with the west and is now focusing on the rest of the world.... SCO and BRICS are the future for Russia and also the rest of the world too.
The west has shown its true colours... despite economic problems of their own they are happy to throw money and weapons at Kiev to kill some Ruskies... why do deals with such people?
Here we go. I don't think this is particularly good for Russia. We all know that it is FAKE. But we don't own the entire world media. It could have all been avoided. Very easily.
You say yourself they are making it up... what could Russia have possibly done to prevent them making something up?
Ones that worked in Africa weren't pulled straight from prisons in the middle of war
We have no idea what is happening... they might be needing more staff because the demand in Africa is exceeding their supply of men so recruiting more now will mean they have more available in 6 months time when they have been trained to a basic level.
...they really do want Russia to mobilize. Holy shit our leaders here in the west are insane. Feel like they are kids who know they are soon to be caught by parents for wrong doing and drag everyone else around with them to punishment. God be with you, homies. Shit is getting weirder by the minute. Hope you ruskies are hanging in there.
The fact that the west thinks they should mobilise alone suggests Putin is doing the right thing... as usual.
When the smoke clears and each side shows their hand is when we can judge what Putin and the Russians are doing to be right or not.
As I said thr situation is so dangerous. Not just for Russia but for Europe too. We are sacrificing europe to topple russia. God is going to have an accounting for what we have done.
The EU is more likely to collapse than Russia at the moment and going forward the EU is getting worse and Russia is getting better.
I think when the Europeans realise they have been used by the US to try to hurt Russia while not even cutting all their own ties with Russia, then maybe the EU might become less dependent on the US for advice and direction... or they just love being someones bitch and will start to suck up to China instead.
Here "military experts" like Rob Lee...yes, the one from Twitter...are ranked above the expertise of the highest general of one of NATO's largest countries.
The issue is that your level of expertise is judged by how close to US State Department and Kiev Script you get... stay on script and you are expert... wander off script towards the truth and you are Putins puppet...
Tell this the people who lost someone because they relied on Putin and Russia! Tell them straight in the face they should shut the **** up and not behave like pussies...only because they lost a wife, a son, a brother or someone else! Yes, Kharkiv can be recaptured, destroyed buildings can be rebuilt, but you can't bring the dead back to life.
If they didn't fight for themselves why should Russians fight for them instead?
Did Putin kill these people or did Ukrainian Nazis with US and UK and EU support do it with their blessings?
Yes they evacuated in the northern parts in 3 days, but Balaklija was left overnight.
Evacuations due to flood or earthquake take place immediately... if you don't want to leave then burn the Russian passport and speak Ukrainian when the Orcs pass through.
And in the forum some still don't have the balls to call the shit by their names! That was just shit and yes of course life goes on. Hopefully the Russian leadership will learn something new. But please don't call the regrouping genius, clever or anything else. And I still don't see a trap.
How can it be called a plan of a trap... you would need to know where they were attacking for it to be a trap... it was a response to a counterattack that is being turned in to a trap.
They could have planned to destroy bridge crossings... instead they blew the sluice gate of a dam and flooded the crossings instead... either way all the heavy equipment moved forward is now.... TRAPPED.
Its most ironic. The "HARM" missile... doesn't.
Russian AD systems seem very adept at keeping out of HARMS way...
The list of failed Murkan/Eurofag wunderwaffe grows long indeed
The British ALARM is vastly better, but also not cheap and not made in enormous numbers.
But fucking real Russians are
And Garryb and the rest of you from the fucking west paying taxes to kill Russians, talk so much bullshit about what Russians should or should not do
Sorry to burst your "alternative media" bullshit bubble
The reality is Russians are pissed off, and do not consider Russian people to be disposable as some here said
"They should have just left"
Very easy to say that when you have no dog in the game
How old are you?
Did you think this was a game?
Did you expect to just walk in there and kill all the bad guys and then have victory parades?
Welcome to the real world.
What the Russian military has done in the Ukraine has been amazing but if you expect them to save every Ukrainian who did a nice thing for them while they were there then you are being unreasonable and stupid.
If you want to tie the hands of the Russian troops so they lose more men and likely more civilians die because if there is fighting going on around them to save them then of course they are going to die in the crossfire... the nazis wont care, but how many Russians will die because they don't want to bring down the building an Orc sniper is operating from because there are five civilian families living in that building?
Nazis murdering civilians is going to continue till the Russians finish this and eliminating their mobility advantage with a stand and fight order just means more good people will die.
It doesn't take a Russian to work that out.
Not every Russian is worth anything.... Navalny is a Russian too... so is Gary Kasparov...
Agreed with direct attacks against Russians on such a scale it is grounds for war. But this is most certainly what the west wants.
That is the reaction they want from Russia, which is why Russia needs to be very careful and clear about what it does in response.
Launching missiles at the locations the enemy fire comes from might find Russia friendly people locked in buildings being hit instead.
These people are scum remember.
Russia ‘again’ talks of red lines re weapon provision but let’s call a spade a spade here, when you make that kind of threat but fail to act upon it, your words just become noise and are disregarded as such.
Yeah, we thought that before Russia attacked the Ukraine... Putin wont do anything... problem is that despite giving red lines we really don't know what is setting them off because they never said the response to crossing red lines was an immediate trip wire type thing... it might be a week before things start to explode in the EU... or the EU gets cut completely from Russian energy exports.
The pressure mounts, the sleeping dogs have been woken up. It looks like in the western world they think that the Ukraine could defeat Russia militarily, so everything is thrown into the balance again.
An overconfident enemy totally full of itself... what could possibly go wrong....
Still waiting for a breakthrough Russian counter attack.. how many Russian cities needs to be shelled relentlessly before the Mod finally gets enough?
They are shelling and attacking with air power this big lump of new meat, the Russians don't get pudding till they have consumed the meat serving... then what does Kiev have left to stop them with?
Quick question guys, how many countries have successfully defended themselves from the combined arms of NATO, withstood an economic war and sanctions from the EU+US and prevented the collective west from isolating them from the rest of the world? This is total war that NATO + their lapdogs are waging against Russia and Russia isn't just resisting their attacks, but winning.
Meanwhile, grown men on their periods here are still bitching about the Kharkov withdrawal as if the fate of the SMO depended on keeping that territory. You could fill up several swimming pools with the sheer amount of tears these assholes have shed over this one incident.
There are two sets of armchair generals on this forum... those that are whining that Putin isn't doing more to save civilians... though they haven't said how sending 300K new Russian soldiers to fight to get back territory these civilians who refuse to move will not kill even more civilians... they also support shock and awe tripwire warfare where for every shell that is fired at Russia 10,000 shells are fired back at anything and everything... obviously again rules from the humanitarian playbook I am guessing... and there are those that are content to just try to guess what Russia is doing based on the situation and what they have said in the past and guesswork.
So as far as I can tell there is winning and whining... are you on the right side?
Doesn't actually matter of course.
Russia-Ukraine War: EU Chief Ursula von der Leyen said it was "possible" that the Russian leader would one day face the International Criminal Court, as "ultimately, Putin is responsible" for war crimes in Ukraine.
Well in that case as the EU chief is she responsible for western war crimes in every country they have fought while she was in power?
Including war crimes committed by Kiev in this conflict?
UA handlers are hoping to put Putin in such situation when he is a hostage of his own people who will demand blood.
Russia is getting more orc and nazi blood than they know what to do with... you are dismembering a country with full HATO and western support and when it reaches out and uses the broken bones sticking out of its broken arms to scratch you you cry that you should not be getting hurt because you don't bleed when you play video games.
This is not a video game.
Russia has all the means to end this, and no it has nothing to do with European winter, noone gives a shit about Europeans freezing nor does that have some secret relationship with the outcome of the Ukrainian war
Really... because all the might of the entire organisation of HATO could end the fighting in Afghanistan... even with Russian help with supplies going through their country to help...
The Europeans are helping Kiev and giving them hope, when Russia cuts off the energy completely the Europeans will lose interest and Kiev will be abandoned... and then what sort of fight will they put up as more and more of their men are killed and injured.
The statesman is playing his own ego game with the west , and that's why this has gone on for as long and as miserable as it has
The west is funding nazis to kill your soldiers and your people and you think Putin is just playing with the west... all ties with the west will be broken before this conflict ends, and the west has made that necessary.
Because the little one has an ego the size of the Kremlin itself, and he wants to show the west he can beat them with this ridiculous SMO
But he is beating them with this SMO.
It's embarassing and unbecoming of this country to be led by this moron, who puts himself at the level of Zelensky or Truss and then expects the world and his jesters at blogger.com to explain it to Russian people using whataboutism and ridiculous analogies comparing SMO to barbarossa
Now you are just making shit up. Putin does not call me each day to ask I defend him. If the Russian people think they know better than the man they elected to do the job and trust western sources and enemy propaganda then they can go **** themselves... congrats you are as dumb as the western people who want you all dead.
You don't deserve the military and the leadership you have... and the military didn't fall from the sky... it earned its stripes through lots of failure, but now when they know what they are doing you are jumping up and down at every Kiev propaganda shitscreen (like a smoke screen but brown and smelly... like Obama) claiming they are idiots and why can't they be as smart as you.
Really... this forum is not for Russian people really... it is for western people to better understand Russia and right now the message you are sending is what a weak bunch of pussies you are... the enemy make a move and you piss your panties and demand the military all be fired and Putin be fired too despite all they have done for you... you disgust me.
Good question. The only real possibility is partial mobilization and that won't be cheap. I don't think Russia needs millions of men, just someone who could serve in the RF territory, freeing up active personnel who could be sent to Ukraine. Russia is not poor these days and probably can survive the economic and social impact. But then again, what follows next should be decisive or it would only make things worse. Anyways, we will see soon - if it doesn't happen in few months - it won't happen at all.
But you haven't explained why.
What are 300K more troops going to do except meet the enemy head on and push them back through the ground they have just taken... compared with the odd nazi death squad looking for traitors a full on counter attack is going to decimate the civilian population anyway so how is putting more Russian soldiers at risk a good thing?
Russia has time... it has all the time it wants. Winter is coming, but who cares. Russia knows how to fight in the cold and thermal imagers work better though bushes and trees with no leaves on them.
Small sabotage groups are easier to find and follow in the cold...
Sending more troops to the borders in Russia... what are they supposed to do? Catch incoming artillery shells or rockets?
Really?
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If the US crosses the red line and becomes a direct party to the conflict if it delivers longer-range missiles to Ukraine, Foreign Ministry
the rest of your post was shite though.
ALAMO
Sorry but it is so retarded...I don't know what else to write. 
