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Log inThat sounds too good to be true, but if they really mean it, then I would expect that Russian forces from Belarus are going to cut off Ukraine from Western supplies. I don't see any other way to enforce a capitulation after just one big offensive, because Kiev is a very stubborn Nato vassal.
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Russian special military operation in Ukraine #36
SolidarityWithRussia- Posts : 212
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Join date : 2022-02-27
- Post n°476
Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #36
SolidarityWithRussia Tue Jan 17, 2023 12:26 am
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mnztr- Posts : 2893
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To me its the fastest and most economical on lives to do that. Cut them off and its done in a month tops. It makes sense to me that the day to day was handed over to Suravikin while Gerasimov was planning the strategic conclusion. By all accounts Gerasimov knows how to plan and execute these large scale ops. Its time to end this, leaving it open creates too much risk of escalation and needless loss of life. After Bakhmut falls they need to attack from Belarus, while a large force heads west to pen in Kiev.
ALAMO- Posts : 7470
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@re captured Tow system ...
This thing only proves how miserably outdated this system not only is by today standards, but how it was even back in the 70s ...
Here is i't direct counterpart, in a full battle ready composition ...
Kh-22 and Kh-22M operates at about 20-25km altitude...
Nope.
The flight max height depends on the range actually, and release height/speed.
That is why missiles of this type are often called "semi ballistic".
Both operate well above the AEGIS interception envelope.
That is what makes it funny.
If operated at maximum range, the diving angle is about 30-40 deg, and the window of opportunity for SM2/3 openes for a while.
But when the target is closer, those will just dive vertically, making a whole system almost useless - AEGIS can't see the target directly above it.
This thing only proves how miserably outdated this system not only is by today standards, but how it was even back in the 70s ...
Here is i't direct counterpart, in a full battle ready composition ...
Kh-22 and Kh-22M operates at about 20-25km altitude...
Nope.
The flight max height depends on the range actually, and release height/speed.
That is why missiles of this type are often called "semi ballistic".
Both operate well above the AEGIS interception envelope.
That is what makes it funny.
If operated at maximum range, the diving angle is about 30-40 deg, and the window of opportunity for SM2/3 openes for a while.
But when the target is closer, those will just dive vertically, making a whole system almost useless - AEGIS can't see the target directly above it.
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GarryB- Posts : 40515
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Per usual, you have an answer to everything without knowing what you are talking about. Bulk of donated vehicles are Bukhankas, Lada Niva and other Russian vehicles.
And there is no way anyone could pretend to want to help and actually mean Russian soldiers harm because the west is always fair and always plays by the rules and is really actually nice when you get to know them.
Why would the brand of the vehicle make any difference at all... you do understand trackers can be placed on anything at all... sometimes they are even hidden so the people using them can't find them and don't know they are there.
But I know nothing.
Anyway, I know that this will fall on deaf ears with you, so I won't be bothering anymore.
First of all Ditto.... and second... Promise?
P.S. And Makeevka strike was a great example of uniforms blaming everything on regular soldiers in order not to take the blame.
You loved that strike... it gave you a hard on... you could complain and bitch and moan... and now it appears they are clamping down on personal electronic equipment you are having another fucking winge about this... so what is it going to be... they can have and use what they like... they just need to get used to being killed when they get into large groups, or they follow the fucking rules like in a normal military and harden the **** up and realise they can't chat to their girlfriends or their mummies when they want for the sake of not getting hammered again.
Wonder how many female ukrainians found new boyfriends in the Russian Army on line they can pump for information and exploit... who knows... who cares...
Pretty sure cellphones and tablets should be banned from the entire war zone... and any signal detected anywhere should be shelled by the Russian side just to make sure the rules are being observed.
Your in the army now bitch... grow a pair and do as you are told and you might survive.
No wonder Wagner is getting recruits who just finished their contracts and don’t even want to look at the army and their structure. Bad thing about wagner is that if you end up with your legs blown off, then one time payment will be all you will get. No pension, no nothing.
Sit in a van and learn to control and use drones...
Also, about beards, well, Russian SF seem to be rocking beards and are not worried about some poles farting after eating kielbasa. Honestly, who the hell will enforce this? I am starting to dislike idiots at Moscow who should just shut the **** up and let military do their job. They do nothing but tie their hands from the beginning
They have rules and there are penalties for rules... if they don't mind the penalties then they can just take them and ignore the rules...
Russia needs another Nikolai Gogol to write about absurdity of Russian bureaucrats. In this case, in military.
Completely ignoring that these rules are for a reason, in fact several reasons, which you guys were crying about not that long ago...
It is a big complicated operation. Involving a hot war with the US. There's probably a good reason for most of it. But we wont know
If the solution was four frecken vehicles... how big was the problem and how hard should it have been to get them to go through proper channels for more suitable platforms?
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GarryB- Posts : 40515
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The flight max height depends on the range actually, and release height/speed.
That is why missiles of this type are often called "semi ballistic".
Not ballistic at all, it has two liquid rocket motors... both are fired to climb to operating altitude and then the more powerful of the two shuts down and the weaker rocket motor maintains speed to the target area with both motors powering the missile down towards the target for the terminal phase of the attack.
Speed to the target area is about mach 3 and can get to mach 3.5 to mach 4 in the dive on target.
A quick look here and you can see which rocket nozzle is which:
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ALAMO- Posts : 7470
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Wery interesting.
https://t.me/SIL0VIKI/60093
A newly organized Pacific Fleet Marines heavy sniper unit. Established in April 2022.
Dedicated to counter enemy snipers, spotters and drone operators at distances more than 1000m.
The guy interviewed is the most experienced, so he operates with targets of more than 1500m, while for the others 1000-1200 is the norm.
It takes 3-8 years of training for a sniper.
Low caliber uses subsonic bullets.
His 12.7mm Lobaev uses supersonic, and sole sound wave passing the target by 1m is enough to cause some trauma long enough to take another round.
Not ballistic at all, it has two liquid rocket motors...
Ever seen how this missile operates in real? That would help ... I will check for some maneuvers wit them hitting the target, should have them somewhere.
https://t.me/SIL0VIKI/60093
A newly organized Pacific Fleet Marines heavy sniper unit. Established in April 2022.
Dedicated to counter enemy snipers, spotters and drone operators at distances more than 1000m.
The guy interviewed is the most experienced, so he operates with targets of more than 1500m, while for the others 1000-1200 is the norm.
It takes 3-8 years of training for a sniper.
Low caliber uses subsonic bullets.
His 12.7mm Lobaev uses supersonic, and sole sound wave passing the target by 1m is enough to cause some trauma long enough to take another round.
Not ballistic at all, it has two liquid rocket motors...
Ever seen how this missile operates in real? That would help ... I will check for some maneuvers wit them hitting the target, should have them somewhere.
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famschopman- Posts : 200
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- Post n°482
Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #36
famschopman Tue Jan 17, 2023 1:47 am
Ouch …
https://twitter.com/TraderMuir/status/1615080167587676161?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1615080167587676161%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=
https://twitter.com/TraderMuir/status/1615080167587676161?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1615080167587676161%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=
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ALAMO- Posts : 7470
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Yeah, we talked about exactly that yesterday.
It is not his first entry like that in the last several days, you know?
@Garry,
Take a look here, it is the first I have found, later I will try in my own files.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDz0dTHV1qs&ab_channel=FranklinApaza
One of the first clearly registered Ch-22 usage in Lozovaya.
And here is Kremenchuk :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wENPfe7UNG8&ab_channel=ALERTNEWS
See the strike angle? It is different for both cases.
The thing can be preprogrammed according to the target type, but only in some pre-settled scope. If the target distance is close to maximal, the missile will fly to the highest altitude, and dive at 30-40 deg angle. If the target is close, it can be struck with an almost 90deg dive.
A best case scenario was when the missile was released from an altitude of some 10-11km and 1+Ma speed, so it could travel at the high lt to the last moment, having the fuel reserve.
That made a huge difference. That is why back in the early 90s, Russkie already openly claimed a huge operational & effectiveness difference between KSR-5 and Ch-22.
Piotr Butowski when I have spoken with him back then said that the Russkie called KSR-5 "a garbage" if compared to Ch-22.
It is not his first entry like that in the last several days, you know?
@Garry,
Take a look here, it is the first I have found, later I will try in my own files.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDz0dTHV1qs&ab_channel=FranklinApaza
One of the first clearly registered Ch-22 usage in Lozovaya.
And here is Kremenchuk :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wENPfe7UNG8&ab_channel=ALERTNEWS
See the strike angle? It is different for both cases.
The thing can be preprogrammed according to the target type, but only in some pre-settled scope. If the target distance is close to maximal, the missile will fly to the highest altitude, and dive at 30-40 deg angle. If the target is close, it can be struck with an almost 90deg dive.
A best case scenario was when the missile was released from an altitude of some 10-11km and 1+Ma speed, so it could travel at the high lt to the last moment, having the fuel reserve.
That made a huge difference. That is why back in the early 90s, Russkie already openly claimed a huge operational & effectiveness difference between KSR-5 and Ch-22.
Piotr Butowski when I have spoken with him back then said that the Russkie called KSR-5 "a garbage" if compared to Ch-22.
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Dr.Snufflebug- Posts : 1131
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- Post n°484
Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #36
Dr.Snufflebug Tue Jan 17, 2023 2:24 am
Yesterday, a story popped up about a former Wagner operative who fled to Norway and sought some kind of asylum, and who was prepared to "witness about war crimes":
https://www.mk.ru/politics/2023/01/16/vysokopostavlennyy-komandir-chvk-vagner-sbezhal-v-norvegiyu-i-poprosil-ubezhishha.html
Shortly thereafter, Prigozhin himself commented on it, and said that the guy in question is in fact a Norwegian citizen and was being investigated by Wagner itself for crimes and had a warrant out after him, which prompted him to flee:
https://www.rbc.ru/politics/16/01/2023/63c5716f9a7947f42ba78fed
Prigozhin says that Wagner has a "Norwegian battalion" called Nidhogg (from Níðhǫggr, a dragon in Norse mythology), in which this guy operated. RBC above thinks it might be a joke, as nobody has heard of this before. But then again, Wagner only recently started doing any kind of PR, and they haven't been very transparent about their organization, so there might as well be particular "battalions" of certain foreign volunteers like this, who knows.
Gonna be a juicy story, anyhow.
https://www.mk.ru/politics/2023/01/16/vysokopostavlennyy-komandir-chvk-vagner-sbezhal-v-norvegiyu-i-poprosil-ubezhishha.html
Shortly thereafter, Prigozhin himself commented on it, and said that the guy in question is in fact a Norwegian citizen and was being investigated by Wagner itself for crimes and had a warrant out after him, which prompted him to flee:
https://www.rbc.ru/politics/16/01/2023/63c5716f9a7947f42ba78fed
Prigozhin says that Wagner has a "Norwegian battalion" called Nidhogg (from Níðhǫggr, a dragon in Norse mythology), in which this guy operated. RBC above thinks it might be a joke, as nobody has heard of this before. But then again, Wagner only recently started doing any kind of PR, and they haven't been very transparent about their organization, so there might as well be particular "battalions" of certain foreign volunteers like this, who knows.
Gonna be a juicy story, anyhow.
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ALAMO- Posts : 7470
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Maybe some nice guys with a sledgehammer will visit him soon, too?
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Regular- Posts : 3894
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“Valery Gerasimov is preparing a big offensive in the next 7 days, - Volyamedia edition”
Ukrainian media… What is this, 56th big offensive from
Belarus already? Translation - give us more weapons.
Brought to you by same people who invented Ghost of Kiev.
Ukrainian media… What is this, 56th big offensive from
Belarus already? Translation - give us more weapons.
Brought to you by same people who invented Ghost of Kiev.
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ALAMO- Posts : 7470
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Seversk is getting encircled as we speak.
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higurashihougi- Posts : 3401
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- Post n°488
Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #36
higurashihougi Tue Jan 17, 2023 3:08 am
A small question: when a 1000kg Kh-22 warhead drop into the apartment and explode, how much damage it can cause ? 
On the social media I head somebody cast doubt that the destruction at Dnepropetrovsk is too small for a 1000kg warhead. So I would like to ask if they are right or wrong
On the social media I head somebody cast doubt that the destruction at Dnepropetrovsk is too small for a 1000kg warhead. So I would like to ask if they are right or wrong
ALAMO- Posts : 7470
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The building was not hit directly.
Missile remains felt on the opposite side of a street, some 15m from the building. Destruction was caused by the blast wave only.
Some parts of the missile fell behind the building as well. We won't know if was it a fuel tank, intercepting missile, or some other thing - Ukrs won't tell that.
Edit : looks like Goebbelsovitch resigned.
Missile remains felt on the opposite side of a street, some 15m from the building. Destruction was caused by the blast wave only.
Some parts of the missile fell behind the building as well. We won't know if was it a fuel tank, intercepting missile, or some other thing - Ukrs won't tell that.
Edit : looks like Goebbelsovitch resigned.
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famschopman- Posts : 200
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- Post n°490
Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #36
famschopman Tue Jan 17, 2023 3:43 am
I don't understand why that would be a KH-22. If that missile follows a 90 angle trajectory at an extreme high velocity (someone mentioned mach 3 or 4) then there is no way Ukraine AD would have shot that one down. Wouldn't a 'normal' cruise missile make more sense, with a follow up gas explosion make more sense given the damage?
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ALAMO- Posts : 7470
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Because it is one of the parts of a whole lie.
The Ukro claim was that the building was deliberately targeted by the Russkies, and that is a war crime.
Then Goebbelsovitch came out, claiming that it was Ch-22 taken down, and its remains exploded on the ground.
So to cover that, Ukro AD command spokesperson figured out a story about how the Ch-22 can't be shot down, so it was deliberate.
And how the Russians have used almost 300 Ch-22 knowing the Ukrs have no assets to take those down.
At the same time, they have stated multiple intercepted in the graphic charts they are presenting to the audience on a regular basis, how many missiles they have intercepted, and how many Russkie has left.
They chased themselves into a corner with multiple and long-time created lies that backfire now, that's it.
The Ukro claim was that the building was deliberately targeted by the Russkies, and that is a war crime.
Then Goebbelsovitch came out, claiming that it was Ch-22 taken down, and its remains exploded on the ground.
So to cover that, Ukro AD command spokesperson figured out a story about how the Ch-22 can't be shot down, so it was deliberate.
And how the Russians have used almost 300 Ch-22 knowing the Ukrs have no assets to take those down.
At the same time, they have stated multiple intercepted in the graphic charts they are presenting to the audience on a regular basis, how many missiles they have intercepted, and how many Russkie has left.
They chased themselves into a corner with multiple and long-time created lies that backfire now, that's it.
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In relation to the T-90 and the camo used. Back when I was in the British army we had thermal plastic sheets that we pieces together using cable ties and the ringlets on the sheets once all secured together we would lay it out and then put a camo net on the top. Then fold the whole together into a large parcel then put it in a cage or metal bin (depending on the vehicle type) and when we stop for a night we would unwrap it and drap over the vehicle then use camo net poles to disrupt the shaped of the vehicle. These sheets were to reduce IR signature. The crews liked them as it also doubled up as shelter and it meant we could sleep under it, and if vehicle was being used the exhaust extension was used, so we didn't choke to death lol. I used these on a command version of the Saxon APC.(please note I was not an officer lol)
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That video should be aired globally especially in rest of Ukraine and Europe it might just hit home how useless it is for Ukraine to keep fighting, the west to keep providing, and Ukrainians facing mobilization a thought of escaping somehow. Generations of Ukrainians wiped out for what
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- Post n°495
Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #36
caveat emptor Tue Jan 17, 2023 7:06 am
@d_taddei2
I doubt it will make any difference. Media will spin it into a story about similar or higher losses on Russian sides and most of the regular people with interest in conflict will not care, as these are not their compatriots dying.
In any case, people from ex-SU are still looked down on in many Western countries.
I doubt it will make any difference. Media will spin it into a story about similar or higher losses on Russian sides and most of the regular people with interest in conflict will not care, as these are not their compatriots dying.
In any case, people from ex-SU are still looked down on in many Western countries.
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So it's official.
Cocainsky's office accepted Arestovych's resignation from the position of freelance adviser. This was confirmed by Serhiy Nikiforov, the spokesman for the president's press secretary.
Will he join Jihad Julian on the Mirotvorets list?
Cocainsky's office accepted Arestovych's resignation from the position of freelance adviser. This was confirmed by Serhiy Nikiforov, the spokesman for the president's press secretary.
Will he join Jihad Julian on the Mirotvorets list?
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I wouldn't get too excited, probably just an all is going as expected announcement. This war is a slog of attrition not flashy pincer movements and double envelopments
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Kh-22 is an important missile. My bet is they have upgraded them with kh-32 technology long time ago. That's why they can use them against ground targets so precisely.
So you can expect it to fly much higher than 20km in altitude.
So you can expect it to fly much higher than 20km in altitude.
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