Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov] #2

She is a handsome looking vessel.

It will be interesting to see the changes in equipment and systems because the old Soviet ships had antennas and masts and equipment all over them and often looked rather messy.

The Kirov class not so much because all the major missiles were vertical launch and therefore below deck and out of the way, but they still were covered in mounts and antennas and cables and things... it should be interesting to see where they have gone with things like ESM jammers and sensors and radars and EO systems.

I will also be interested to see what sort of gun they have because the upgraded 130mm guns are single barrel light weight weapons that would probably not be suited to sustained fire like the old twin barrel 130mm guns despite being much much heavier.

This redesign is going to be interesting because the Kirovs didn't just carry a lot of weapons, they were full of electronics and were command vessels too with likely several skyscraper buildings worth of mainframe 1970s and 1980s computers... a lot of it could be replaced with laptops these days and a lot of the older weapons were rather large but have been replaced by larger numbers.

They likely need a much smaller crew and with a lot less space filled with electronics I would say they probably increased space for fuel and food and made things more comfortable for the crew too.

She will be an impressive beast.

Part of the reason they used a mixed propulsion system is because their other ships wouldn't keep up if they had to run at 30 plus knots all the way so having a dash distance of a few thousand kms is about all they needed.

Their new destroyers are likely to be nuclear powered or perhaps nuclear electric powered, which means much higher average speed as far as they like.

To be fair, there is no contradiction... one is talking about tests starting in August (next month), and the other states in the water in Autumn and Summer sea trials, which is December January isn't it?

Anyone who fixes up houses will know that sometimes, unless there was really something special about the old house, it is often cheaper to knock it down and build a brand new house. Some houses can be moved to temporary storage sites and sold if they are in reasonable condition, but really considering all the piping and wiring and systems and equipment that would need to be replaced... a Kirov class ship is more like a factory where all the contents will need to be replaced as well.

It does not make sense to scrap it and build a new one because they don't have any docks that could handle laying down such a new ship and designs need to be worked through to find a shape as good or better to base the new ship on.

But all the internal bits and pieces would need to be stripped out and replaced, all the components and material would need to be taken out and stripped down and checked and any faulty or worn parts replaced...

Ironically being repeatedly delayed is a good thing... if there were no delays at all the you would wonder if they actually did the work or just gave bits a new coat of paint and pocketed the money.

If you look at progress just in computing since this ship was built, a cellphone has more processing power than most of the mainframe computers of the time... in the 1980s we are talking about floppy disks and hard drives with 20MB capacity.... you take one photo on a new cellphone these days and it is an 8 or 9MB file.

I remember working in a primary school in the early 1990s and their book on computers said anyone trying to sell you a 64K computer is a shark because there is no way you could type that much. A 32K computer is just fine it said... Of course 5 years later I was at university using MS Word whose formatting information in empty files meant you create a new file and don't type anything into it and save it and it is about 30K... for an empty file...

Technology has moved forward quite a lot so changes will be significant, but also an opportunity for them to make new radar and sonar arrays for bigger ships... equipment they might be testing for new Destroyer designs and later for new Cruiser designs perhaps.

I rather suspect they will want to get the Nakhimov into the water and into testing to see what effect that upgrade has had on performance and also on potential.

There is no point repeating the upgrade on the PtG if it turns out to be a dog.

Of course as pointed out PtG is in better shape and the experience of upgrading the other ship should make a difference in the time and cost of an upgrade.

Perhaps they might use the upgrade of the PtG as an opportunity to test new very large radar and sonar antenna and new weapons like a 152mm gun mount and 57mm gun mounts and perhaps new long range SAMs like S-500.

Perhaps even new reactors to boost power to the point where the combined propulsion system is no longer needed... perhaps three compact nuclear reactors, where most of the time you only run one for the normal operation of the ship and perhaps two or three for full speed battle stations performance operating lasers and directed energy weapons etc etc.

They could test radar arrays and sonar arrays intended for new destroyers and cruisers and carrier upgrades.

I think the PtG is an already operational and useful vessel and they will want to test the upgrades to the Nakhimov to see if they are cost effective and worth it... the decision would then be whether to apply a similar upgrade to the PtG and have two upgraded cruisers, or to save the money and do a much simpler more basic upgrade of the PtG and start laying down destroyers and perhaps later cruisers.

I don't think withdrawing or scrapping the PtG makes any sense at all, except withdrawing from service to get an upgrade/overhaul and then return to service 4-6 years later.

But I am biased...

They also only upgraded the Marshal Ustinov out of all the Slava class ships.
I think it is way more likely they will just keep the PtG as is. With minor maintenance done to it.

The Admiral Nakhimov can be used as the test ship for the new systems. It is also quite likely that it will take a long time to test every single system on the ship.

The Baltic Shipyard should put the Leningrad icebreaker into the water between 2026-2028. They can build two nuclear icebreakers simultaneously. So unless the construction of the shipyard gets devoted to more civilian ships of some other type it is quite likely we will see the construction of new battlecruisers after that. It is possible that they will build nuclear barges for power generation instead.

The current situation is that all of their shipyards need expansion and upgrade so they operate at full efficiency and can build modern ships at a decent pace... of course the problem is the first of a type, or first upgrade is always going to be slow and expensive, but the next ones will be faster and more efficient.

There will be lots of obsolete equipment on the PtG that needs changed out to make it compatible with other ships and elements of the fleet, so I don't think they will do nothing at all to her... many of the changes simply are not optional... trying to find 3 and a half inch floppy disk drives in this day and age and finding 1.44 MB floppy disks to put in it... let alone the thousands of disks would be needed for any programme or data storage... it is obvious that you replace them with hard drives and solid state drives.

Most of the computer hardware should also be replaced too, and of course new weapons make sense... the UKSK vertical launch tubes allow a wide range of weapons to be carried that are currently in production... unlike the Granit and SS-N-14 anti sub and anti ship missiles which are likely no longer in production anyway.

Using new SAMs that are in serial production for land forces makes sense too, and lots of EW and ECM equipment is needed that is up to date and effective.

Many other systems that reduce crew requirements might end up paying for themselves over the intended life of the ship, freeing up space for other more useful things, including drones and drone operators etc etc.

The Kirov class already had vertical launch systems so updating them to newer versions makes sense. You could double the number of missiles Klintok carries simply by going from the original TOR missiles from the 1980s that had 8 missiles per vehicle, to the later models that had smaller lighter longer ranged missiles that could fit 16 missiles in the same space. New anti drone missiles that double the missile number again would be useful together with the second generation missiles to improve the defences of the ship without taking up any extra space on board.

New anti drone missiles and systems should be added as they become available... including lasers and directed energy weapons.

Ironically one of the best DEW could be a massive AESA radar array which would also provide excellent situational awareness for the entire fleet operating with the ship.

Operating the upgraded ship for a few years and giving it a full test before planning the upgrade for the PtG makes good sense.

I am really looking forward to see what gun they have fitted... to the Nakhimov... have the kept the old 130mm guns, does it have the new 130mm gun, or have they fitted the new 152mm guns based on Coalition. The old 130mm guns don't even reach 30km, and the new 130mm guns don't reach much further but are much lighter and more compact.

The 152mm guns would be a huge step forward for the Russian Navy and even if they only fired to 70km would be a useful addition and a useful way to engage smaller targets. Eventually it is planned to have guided reduced size 152mm shells that reach 180km, which would be useful and in a dual with ships like the British destroyers whose SAMS reach 130km or so, would be a huge advantage.

Firing a burst of 50 shells from 150kms range at a destroyer that has 48 SAMs to defend itself with would be devastating... especially when those shells are fired in less than a minute.

Such shells would not sink a vessel but hitting missile positions and gun mounts and of course the bridge and antenna arrays would make the ship horribly vulnerable to any type of follow up attack with even the simplest and most basic anti ship missile like Kh-31 or Kh-35.

Fire support from a ship would be very useful if it is accurate.

I would say the PtG could be delayed long enough for its upgrade to include perhaps a 203mm gun with even greater range and payload in cooperation with the Russian Army... I think both the army and navy would find such weapons to be useful without being problematic to operate like a much bigger gun mounted on rail lines.

Google Maps has a more up to date satellite photo of the Admiral Nakhimov.


You can clearly see the UKSK VLS.

Nahkimov is running late as the navy (and the shipyard) greatly underestimated the scope of work required and the technical difficulties that would be encountered. Sub-suppliers have also been tardy in delivering to schedule.  Its an embarassment, but this kind of delay in common in such large upgrades.

Seriously, suggesting the ship may never enter service?

ignore him.

Arrow wrote:Allegedly, work on the Nahimov has been suspended. More delays likely, or the ship may never enter service. Allegedly, over $900 million was stolen during the ship's repairs.

Delays increase costs. You need to pay extra salaries. Inflation makes project costs spiral upwards. But of course since this is Russia they need to claim money was "stolen".

In the US it is quite common for military projects to cost double or triple the initial estimates as well.

Actually it would be better if the money was stolen... arrest those responsible and seize their assets and recover the money lost and put them in jail for the rest of their lives for treason... problem solved.