Russian Navy: Status and News #5

ALAMO wrote:What makes me wonder, is the official status of this ship
If there are some issues behind it, this ship would be useful only for own ports transportation, or really close allies like Syria, or strong partners like China etc.
In any other port, it could have been registered.
We'll see.

It's a military ship, no registration needed plus it would only be used in friendly ports anyway

The Ukraine is free to try to seize it back, it would be interesting to watch

PapaDragon wrote:

ALAMO wrote:What makes me wonder, is the official status of this ship
If there are some issues behind it, this ship would be useful only for own ports transportation, or really close allies like Syria, or strong partners like China etc.
In any other port, it could have been registered.
We'll see.

It's a military ship, no registration needed plus it would only be used in friendly ports anyway

The Ukraine is free to try to seize it back, it would be interesting to watch

Turkey may prevent it out of the black sea as part of the sanctions. They don't consider it as russian but ukrainian.

ALAMO wrote:What makes me wonder, is the official status of this ship
If there are some issues behind it, this ship would be useful only for own ports transportation, or really close allies like Syria, or strong partners like China etc.
In any other port, it could have been registered.
We'll see.

It's a vessel of the Russian Navy

That's the only status it needs, and the only one other countries best pay attention to

ALAMO wrote:Never heard of registering a navy ship , still, that makes me wonder.
Remember "the good 90s"?
When Russians were forced to hide the equipment brought to aviation salons, because some Swiss-based company was running like crazy around, trying to make sequestration of all the goods due to some unresolved lawsuits?
Can't remember now, if that was applied to the private property of exhibitors, not being WWS boards?
This is why I consider its legal status.
A trophy? A war prey?
Probably nothing will happen, those are not 90s anymore

Yep they tried to take a sukhoi in Paris airshow back in the time.

The organisators told the russians which went back home before they come.

But that's a particular case since it was for a civilian event and done according to french law. Seizing it in internationnal space is an act of war. And more sukhois would have headed in Swiss .


But if that ship goes into the waters of a country that doesn't recognize Crimea as part of Russia for exemple after an accident and has to go there, it won't be given back to Russia but to Ukraine.

That ship was ukrinian and was never given by ukraine so it's a stolen ship.

Turkey may prevent it out of the black sea as part of the sanctions. They don't consider it as russian but ukrainian.

It is not their job to determine ownership of transiting ships.

Interestingly with new 57mm ammo being developed its gun armament has become rather more capable and useful...

This is why I consider its legal status.
A trophy? A war prey? Laughing
Probably nothing will happen, those are not 90s anymore

Abandoned equipment not in working order.

But if that ship goes into the waters of a country that doesn't recognize Crimea as part of Russia for exemple after an accident and has to go there, it won't be given back to Russia but to Ukraine.

It is an armed ship manned by Russian sailors.... are they going to order them to sail to a Ukrainian port?

Well obviously the solution would be for them to promise on their mothers grave to sail immediately to a Ukrainian port... Sevastopol perhaps? I mean if that country does not recognise Crimea as being Russia then any port in the Crimea would do wouldn't it?

And if we are going to get pissy about ownership how about all the helicopter engines and ship engines the Russians paid for but did not get delivered... perhaps with the Mistral the Russians should have just mounted a special forces attack on the CdG... lets not be silly...

That ship was ukrinian and was never given by ukraine so it's a stolen ship.

Abandoned and not in working order.

The only reason Russian discussed the return of Ukrainian stuff from Crimea was to get a better publicity/image, and because all of t hem presented a scrap metal value.

They did, which means the Ukraine clearly did not choose to take ownership of the vessel, so it is abandoned.

This is a theoretical discussion at best

But really just a mind-exercise

It's not in any way reflective of reality. Any attempt to board and seize a Russian naval vessel would be an act of war. End of

It is not their job to determine ownership of transiting ships

If Ukraine officially sue Russia over that shop, it won't go any day from the black sea.

perhaps with the Mistral the Russians should have just mounted a special forces attack on the CdG... lets not be silly...

No they ask money back and got it.

Abandoned equipment not in working order.

Still Ukrainian... Russia has no right over Ukrainian ships even if they are abandoned

They did, which means the Ukraine clearly did not choose to take ownership of the vessel, so it is abandoned.

I doubt Ukrinian agreed to give a ship to Russia during the crimean crisis.

ALAMO wrote:

Isos wrote:

Still Ukrainian... Russia has no right over Ukrainian ships even if they are abandoned  

I would not be so sure about that, as there are civil laws in every country that regulates the status of abandoned possession
As f_p mentioned, it is a brain exercise only, still interesting.

Well, they weren't abandoned they were seized there is a difference. Russian naval troops seized the base and didn't let anything go. Not like the Ukies went "you can have this" it was "So here is the deal, we are taking over the base and all your ships are staying right here". When you seize a base you are seizing everything around and in at the same time.

If my memory is correct didn't Russia blockade the port entrance also?.

I realize fanboys will try to argue otherwise but hey that's fanboys.

AMCXXL wrote:Turkey will not do anything because it is an Anglo-American thing to bother Russia.
The ship could be transferred to the Pacific Fleet, no Asian nation is going to care about the problems of Russia and Ukraine.

Also in the Pacific Fleet there are only three pr.775 Rapucha and one old Alligator pr-1171, which needs replacement, sending the previous Ukrainian ship there may be the best option.

Even if it stays in the Black Sea, that is fine too.  It will simply be ear-marked for the future amphibious landings to liberate Kherson or Odessa when the time finally comes to stick a dagger through the heart of the Ukro-nazi Banderite scum and tear their corrupt despotic feudal state down around their ears

Russia seized more than 50 ships, most of them being auxiliary. That should put the thing to a proper perspective, too.
There was an agreement signed in April 2014 for the condition of ships' return, and most of them have been returned - officially.
Only 15 or so remained because Russia suspended its return due to Donbas conflict escalation in 2016.
Not much changed by now I guess

Well even if the return was suspended they are hardly going to then complete a ship the Ukraine wanted back, because suspending for bad behaviour needs to be able to be reversed for good behaviour.

That suggests to me they didn't want them back because they had no capacity or money to get them working again and even if they did get them operational it is not a vessel useful to them, which means selling it for scrap prices.

If Ukraine officially sue Russia over that shop, it won't go any day from the black sea.

Why? It will be manned by armed Russian sailors.... who would try to take it?

The British?

Still Ukrainian... Russia has no right over Ukrainian ships even if they are abandoned

Might makes right. Plenty of Russian assets and products seized in Ukraine... not to mention Ukrainians murdered by Kiev... maybe Russia can give the ship to the Donbass region... they can sell it back to Russia... Russia can pay in anti tank missiles and anti aircraft systems and night vision equipment and flak vests...

I doubt Ukrinian agreed to give a ship to Russia during the crimean crisis.

Ukraine was murdering its own citizens because they would not stop speaking Russia... who gives a shit what they want?

Well, they weren't abandoned they were seized there is a difference. Russian naval troops seized the base and didn't let anything go. Not like the Ukies went "you can have this" it was "So here is the deal, we are taking over the base and all your ships are staying right here". When you seize a base you are seizing everything around and in at the same time.

The Russian troops were in Russian bases leased from Ukraine. They never exceeded the number of troops they were allowed to have in those bases.

Most of the seizing was done by the Crimean people, the Russians just looking on and being polite.

Those Crimean people were legally Ukrainian so those boats and that land was theirs and they legally voted to join the Russian Federation... which meant all the ships and property reverted to Russian ownership, so Russia was being very generous returning the crap they didn't want to Kiev... something that Kiev managed to ruin by murdering their own people.

The 22350 "frigates" are classified as a 1st rank ship, this is a destroyer or "ship of the line" not a frigate, using the common and NATO classification.

So the Gorshkov frigates are the same 1st rank as the upgraded Peter the Great Orlan class ships?

The fact that the designation for the Udaloy has changed from Destroyer to Frigate suggests that ships can change rank easily enough and that when new destroyers and new cruisers are built these frigates will drop down the ranks accordingly.

Another St Petersburg ship on the 25th Navy Day.

The "Soviet Union" still under her own power. Quite a sight!

Ah the Sovetsky Soyuz class.

Proof the Russians invented stealth tech before anyone else, it was never spotted during the war and the Germans never realized it was sinking their ships.

Odd the Russians revealed the existence of the ship to the world like this

The first Soviet nuclear submarine K-3 "Leninsky Komsomol" is being prepared for transportation to Kronstadt to become a key museum exhibit there

JohninMK wrote:Another St Petersburg ship on the 25th Navy Day.

The "Soviet Union" still under her own power. Quite a sight!

Is it a photoshop ? Never seen pictures of this ship.

Isos wrote:
Is it a photoshop ? Never seen pictures of this ship.

I think it must be, all 4 were supposed to have been scrapped in the 40's before they were complete.

Apologies for posting it but it just looked so good. Made me smile.

Isos wrote:Is it a photoshop ? Never seen pictures of this ship.

3D render of a World of Warships digital model.