he meant the P-8 Poseidon based on B-737 airframe
Of course he did, thank you TL, and apologies Lsos.
Personnel Shortage At U.S. Coast Guard Sinks 10 Cutters, 29 Stations
That is shocking... they outspend the entire rest of the world by a wide margin and this sort of thing is happening... where is the outrage?
But all the experts are more interested in comparing numbers of ships with Russia and China and ISIS...
Russia still has enough Il-38s, Tu-22M/95/142s, Su-30/33/34s & MiG-31s to take up the slack. Some An-12/72/74/124s &/ Il-76s could also be armed with CMs, if need be.
Just for coastal defence of Russia from US Navy and HATO navies, all they need are MiG-31Ks with Kinzhal missiles and small naval ships like corvettes with sea bed sonar arrays that detect the presence of enemy subs. With UKSK you can launch an anti sub torpedo in any direction at mach 2 plus speeds to reach the area the sub is in and sink it in minutes. Helicopters and aircraft supporting that just give them better coverage... hopefully they do to the Mi-38 helicopter what they did to the Mi-8 to create the Mi-14 but based on the Mi-38 helicopter base for a new naval helicopter... they have sea mine fuses they can attach to their standard FAB bombs for creating minefields in shallow waters quickly and easily with aircraft like the Backfire and Fullback.
They are at the start of upgrading their naval aircraft and transports... engines are getting to serial production stage and it is only a matter of time now.
Russia's shipyards can pump at least a dozen of these motherfuckers for every submarine the US industry can struggle to strain out. Eventually Russia will have a a couple Poseidons tailing every NATO boomer, their trailing attack subs, a few dozen for the carrier group above and even one for each coast guard patrol boat jacking off in the rear, providing a persistent and ever looming sword of damocles to NATO's sea-based nuclear capabilities.
An anti carrier purpose has been suggested for the Poseidon, but I rather suspect it would be kept in reserve for a nuclear war... it is a doomsday device after all, so using it in peace time would probably start a nuclear war unless it is used as a recon drone.
A future without world ending wars will require a build up of the Russian navy, but all the basics are in place... they needed engines and they need to test the new design of the new frigate... but the guns and SAMs and new radar systems and engines have all gone through their trouble stages and now seem to be sorted out... it is just a case of testing the new frigate design to make sure it is what they want and making sure there are enough upgraded shipyards so that instead of the slow difficult task of making first ships where you follow the plan but have to improvise as problems come up, you can plan out the production of multiple ships of the same type and just produce them and get faster and better with each ship you make because of their modular nature which should help immensely if there are no further changes required.
They wont end up pumping them out like the Chinese, but it wont take forever to make corvettes and frigates and in a few years time they will be ready to lay down some destroyers now their nuclear reactors for ships seem to be rather successful and more compact than they were expecting.
And while I write about the shortcomings of the Russian VMF, you mention Stalin...
The short comings you talk about are all in your head. You don't just decide to serial produce a corvette when you don't have an engine supplier. A Corvette with no engine available takes up space in a shipyard that would be better used doing something else.
Navies require long term design and planning and yes, sometimes things happen and those plans have to change... if you fire everyone for incompetence every time plans have to be change you end up with dumber people doing the job... if they were smarter than the people doing the job that just got fired they would have already had the job in the first place.
Expecting some new people to come in and fix everything is ridiculous... it would be easier to cancel things and start again, which means even greater delays and no assurance what you are now doing will work any better.
If you demand results now then of course they could meet deadlines by making old cold war shit that wouldn't last ten minutes in a modern conflict, but instead they work on new state of the art vessels and weapons and sensors and equipment, which means some delays and problems are gong to happen.
And while I mention the P-8 and IL-38, you write about the F-15 and the F-22.
The main reason the US and the Soviet Union went for propeller driven aircraft is because being able to fly slow and at low altitude is actually useful for the MPA role.
The reason the P-8 is a jet is because they don't have any propeller driven aircraft to use any more... they don't have an An-70 type plane so they went for a Boeing 737 instead. Both the Orion and the May were airliners because long low speed cruise flight at efficient speeds is useful for the job so the US went for the Being 737 to fill the role.
The Russians will likely use the Tu-214 family for a replacement of the Il-38, and it will probably do a good job, but the Il-38 in its current form is actually a rather good MPA and there is no huge sense of urgency to replace it immediately.
The US plane is faster but that does not actually make it better in the role.
They would have used C-130s if they were bigger I suspect.
[quote]If the Russians had at least half as many Project 20385 corvettes as the Americans have Areligh Burke destroyers, I would be happy.[/quot]
They will start making their corvettes in serial numbers when there are engines to fit into them... your happiness does not really come in to it.
What kind of future of the Russian VMF are you writing about ?
A future where Russia communicates and trades directly with the rest of the world instead of through the west as it has done in the past where they acted as middle men skimming off the profits.
That doesn't exist for at least the next 10+ years.
Navies take time and don't change overnight... but in 5 years they are going to have two 40K ton helicopter carriers, so their upgraded Udaloys and Kuznetsov and Kirov class and Slava class ships are going to go and see the world a lot more often, and maybe a few of their new improved frigates might be getting into service by then too.
Will be a year or two fitting out of course...
I am more modest I also wrote and am writing what has always formed the basis of the Russian and earlier Soviet fleet - SSN/SSGN submarines.
The SSBNs form the basis of the Russian Navy and will always be the priority in terms of funding.
* Only 3 project 885/885M submarines built in the last 22 years or from the K-335 Gepard submarine. A fourth K-571 is expected.
What would they do with more and would it change how safe Russia actually is... or would it spur the US to make 100 more SSNs to "counter them".
* The 22350 frigate project is over 20 years old and in 2023 only two are active, while the third has been announced.
You mean 3 have been completed and two are in full operational service.
They have had operational experience with the ships and have developed an improved design called project 22350M which they will build and test. Now they have the propulsion systems sorted out into serial production they can make more frigates and once the upgraded version is built they can test that too and decide how many of each they will be wanting.
* There is progress regarding the Amur Shipyard and the speed of laying keels for 20380/20385 in the past years, and that is commendable, but the Russians can also screw things up with insufficient financing of construction, corruption, etc.
Which is why I mention the US and UK navies because everyone can screw things up, there is no country on the planet with a perfect navy than does not have any problems and is adequately funded and everything is great.
If they didn't have any problems at all you would know they are keeping their problems secret which is rather worse than not having any at all because they get ignored and don't get solved.
* Garry, the Russians announced in April 2013 that they will complete the modernization and deliver the Leopard submarine to the Russian Navy in 2016.
Here is the link, there is no better one; Deepstorm.ru
And?
Have you ever made plans and something came up so you had to cancel?
Do you remember COVID?
Having to change plans is not a failure and certainly no reason to fire everyone and cry on the internet that everything is broken.
* Corvette "Strogiy" has been under construction since February 2015 and its not active..yet.
It is a giant ship with a full displacement of 2220 tons.
Probably still trying to find rubber bands big enough to propel the ship...
* Corvette "Provorny" project 20385 under construction since July 2013. Severe fire damage December 2021.
Yeah, cause fires never happen... that is why insurance companies never cover property for fire.
* Frigates... waste of time.. Project 22350 is already more than 20 years old. Waste of time and I'm not sure that they could have tested the gas turbines at "Golovko" in such a short time. Well, it's the Russians and if there's an accident - we'll get some nonsense on TASS again, etc.
In its original form it has better missiles than any ship in any other navy in the world... there is nothing really comparable to 9M96 or Zircon... or even Onyx...
Years pass and promises about the terms of construction and delivery of new submarines and ships to the VMF continue, while the fleet is declining and shrinking.
Years pass and lots of work is done in the background to replace products and materials that they used to import and now have to make for themselves.
Making marine gas turbines is not something every country does... in the Soviet Union it was the Ukraine that did all that, but now Ukraine is a hostile country so Russia had to set up production in Russia... that takes time and money, but when it is done it means Russian ships will be Russian ships... which is a good thing and they wont be held hostage again by Kiev.
I underlined this sentence because it is the essence that unfortunately does not change for the better.
It is changing every day. Russian engine companies can't just make 30 new propulsion plants a year from making one or two... all the really hard work has been done... their biggest problem now is to get the workers to get all the engines made.
But hey, a good number of forum members are thrilled with those 21631 and 22800 and 22160 cans.
And the rest are moaning bitches who have done **** all with their lives but think they can moan about the state of the Russian Navy...
I am not writing here out of disdain for the Russian Navy,
You are making light of their troubles and their achievements... you would not make their B cheer squad even if you looked good in lycra.
but out of the lies that the Russian state is spreading about the fleet, which is in a terrible state.
I am not aware of anything Russia has demanded of its Navy that it has failed at.
For the future they are going to be making more demands but that is going to require more funding and support.
You need to calm down and realize that what is happening now is a landwar with Russia vs the entire Nato and west, a big expensive navy is a luxury they dont need right now. The ships and submarines keep coming and modifications and new models are put on line.
All is well, the SSBN is the focus and its getting new subs and missiles regulary.
It seems to me that a lull in producing ships while engines and other critical components are hard to source just now would be a good time to stop production and give the shipyards a decent upgrade so that when production does resume that they are better able to meet the new production needs and get more ships and subs produced... but key to that is long serial runs of ships where they can lay down lots of ships of the same type and make them all the same...
Appropriate communication buoys can be deployed which, via satellite communication, can communicate with the SSBN through sound, which propagates perfectly in the water to great depths.
Which could be intercepted and listened to. The Bear has a 2km long cable antenna it can deploy to communicate with subs in extremely low frequencies... EL.
An airship would be ideal for such communication because the antenna has to hang straight down which forces the Tu-142 to fly very slow and close to stall speed, while an airship could lower and retrieve such a cable easily enough.
If it is possible to honor the contracts and deliver EVERY Su-30SM/34/35S, BMP-3, tanks, etc on time, then why is the VMF the only problem ?
Plans change, so when a land war starts you reduce funding for ships and boost funding for artillery shells and tanks.
The people that used to make naval shells get drafted into extra shifts in the factories making 152mm and 203mm artillery shells instead.
but a problem that has been a fundamental problem for decades..
Their requirements for a navy these last few decades have not been of any urgency.
Today with BRICS Russia is going to want to go out and connect with the world and their Navy is an ideal way to achieve that... their funding priorities are going to shift towards their navy and the boost in trade is going to pay for it. When they are making new frigates and corvettes and destroyers in decent numbers I rather suspect a few BRICS countries that don't make their own ships might start looking at getting a few ships made too... not to mention their new generation submarines.
Kind of embarassing since Sweden had them in the 1990s and all the other major sub manufactorurs have been building them for at least a decade or two.
To be fair Sweden just wants to hide and wait and ambush, which means conventional hydrogen fuel cells are just fine for your subs, but the fuel cells the Russians are working on are rather more powerful and rather more potent too, but of course as the Japanese have found... new battery technology means getting rid of the AIP and the oxygen tanks means you can fit twice as many batteries which greatly improves performance without the complication and expense of the AIP.
In fact I just looked it up and the Blekinge class sub is a similar weight to the Lada class subs but the Swedish sub has an endurance of 45 days (18 days underwater with AIP), They both have the same endurance and the Kilo class is supposed to be able to operate submerged for two weeks (14 days), so 18 days is not actually astounding at all.
In fact there were claims that replacing the Kilo classes batteries with new lithium ion batteries would extend its underwater endurance to three weeks, so maybe they don't need AIP?
Project 636.6 submarines are probably no longer the right solution for anti-submarine warfare, but neither AIP submarines have autonomy, working depth or sailing speed, nor an arsenal of nuclear submarines.
For coastal work and short range defensive work diesel electrics are vastly superior to nukes in most parameters except speed and range obviously. Much larger nuke powered subs can of course carry much heavier payloads of weapons and equipment but in terms of how quiet they are and how manouverable they are the diesel electrics normally win easily.
The US doesn't have diesel electric subs because they don't think anyone is going to send subs to operate near their territory...
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