Russian special military operation in Ukraine #54
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ALAMO- Posts : 7518
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I guess all of it.
One boat escaped - from the early records, and those are usually the most legit.
No propaganda applied yet
Some sunken well in deep.
The one we can see was the only one that managed to get to the shore.
I guess they will float one day. If the fishes allow.
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Patrol boat needs to be cheap.
Those fancy and expensive stealth shapes are useless. More structure around the ship that helps flating is better and could sustain damages of such drones and protect main structure of the ship.
Anyway they can't do without ships. They will have to replace it for area surveilliance and fishing control.
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But those are cheap.
A $65mln tag was provided by Ukrs only, to prove the scale of damage.
It was a year+ ago when they claimed to sink it for the first out of three times
This boat cost is a $20mln max.
Do not apply the western bribery system to the working one.
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Rather Decepticon.Omicron
But bribes are good for GDP growth.Do not apply the western bribery system to the working one.
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UK to supply more than 10,000 drones to Ukraine
The announcement was made today by Defence Secretary Grant Shapps as he met President Zelenskyy in Kyiv
Didnt SS say that U-reich builds drones themselves? Iwish Houties got support form Russian govt...as well as Iraqi militia.
@Isos
well drones will replace ships eventually in most of duties. The situation is like second half of 19 century when torpedoes appeared on maritime battlefield. Do you remember torpedo bubbles, belts, nets ? al of thsi modified for drones could be considered imho.
of course programmable ammo for 35-57mm rapid firing guns. or lots of gatlings of smaller calibers 12.7-30mm with good optics/radars/laser fcs
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meh they just used Ukrainian bribe inflation
@Hole
in Ukriaine th eonly things are good for economy are forced donations form abroad
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Paying off debts affects the GDP!
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Those drones are nasty because they don't have anything to counter them. But creating weapons against them is easy. Like I said a simple launcher to launch big explosives with thousands of shrapnels to cover an area of 50m by 50m with an optical guidance and mn in the loop will make any attack unsuccessful, a bit like a manned afghanit APS.
Just fire in the direction of the drone when its close enough and it's destroyed.
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GunshipDemocracy wrote:
@Isos
well drones will replace ships eventually in most of duties. The situation is like second half of 19 century when torpedoes appeared on maritime battlefield. Do you remember torpedo bubbles, belts, nets ? al of thsi modified for drones could be considered imho.
Drones are not a magic bullet . Everyone is making the same mistake , relying on them too much . Drones are really only the working or dirty end of the GPS satellites and Radio communication . Like the brushes or bristles at the end of a Broom . They only work if the handle is not broken . But if the handle breaks , and it will do so in a more intense war , by the use of anti-satellite and EMP weapons , then all these drones are useless . And so is the army that put all their eggs in this basket . They are also more of a weapon for the rich . Those nations that can afford independent GPS systems . Or able to replenish continuously downed satellites .
Therefore one should not be blinded by their success against lesser foe . They will not stand the test of time against a near peer enemy . One should design all systems to operate without GPS . For example : Artillery shells that use GPS , should also be useable in the old fashioned way . Or drones that rely on Radio or GPS , should have inertial navigation or mapping , terrain following navigation or star-light navigation . Etc .
The really clever designer , would see exposed industry or factories producing armaments , as another link in the chain . A weak link . The strength of a fighter jet , is not simply it's ability to turn or climb fast , but for it's parts producing factory ( the Broom handle ) to be immune from attack . To be underground and safe from nuclear strike even .
Last edited by nomadski on Thu Mar 07, 2024 11:28 pm; edited 2 times in total
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it is insane how much footage is uploaded of them being used daily.
They clear entire lines of trenches with deployments of 4 RBK's at a time in seconds.
Remember, The U.S started the cluster munitions to Ukraine, they started the glide bomb kits as well.
Russia always very clearly warned against every escalation witch they then meet with their own versions.
even Pro Kiev channels do not believe Kiev's claims anymore about all the SU-34's they shoot down.
This war is far from over, But with Russian factories pumping out weaponry at a rate that keeps increasing. NATO panicking and wanting to send in troops.
Kiev in panic and trying to claim they shoot down SU-34's everywhere and trying everything they can to shift attention anywhere.
....And starting massive defensive project around Kiev. they are fucked, the momentum against Kiev is accelerating.
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Typical of them.
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us bred terrorists plan something? ?
If ever the NATzO regime goes forward with its sinister plan of Blowing up something in Moscow, Russia needs to assign responsibility to NATzO ASAP! Then Blow up some people in Washington DC as payback. Kill Them. Destroy!
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attacks will result in some tender pieces being lopped off without fanfare but still painful. I would start going after the politicians. You can bet your last cent
that NATzO has tried to murder Putin, we just don't know about it.
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Source: Kyiv is discussing with Astana the purchase of Russian military products
Ukraine is discussing with Kazakhstan the purchase of Russian military-industrial complex products for the needs of the Armed Forces of Ukraine
MOSCOW, March 7 – RIA Novosti. Ukrspetsexport is negotiating with Kazakhstan on the purchase of Russian military products for the needs of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, an informed source told RIA Novosti.
“It recently became known that the Ukrspetsexport Group of Companies is negotiating with Kazakhstan on the purchase of Russian military-industrial complex products for the needs of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. The threads are drawn to the companies TOO Navico, BSKey company, TOO IGT, and IA Syzdykov T. registered in Astana. S.,” said the agency’s interlocutor.
According to him, the Kiev regime could be given components produced in Russia for the PGK-10 parachute braking systems for Su-24 and MiG-29 aircraft.
This gives rise to many insinuations. Perhaps the Kazakh leadership has hidden cards in the game of multi-vector politics to maintain an equidistant position on the situation around Ukraine in dialogue with both Westerners and the main guarantor of Kazakhstan’s security - Russia,” the source suggested.
Nevertheless, there is a big risk of discrediting allied relations and “crushing” economic cooperation with Moscow that is beneficial for Astana for illusory dividends, he concluded.
In turn, the Ministry of Defense of Kazakhstan stated that these data do not correspond to reality. They noted that since 2022, the country has a ban on the export of weapons and military equipment.
The agency called on citizens and the media not to react to rumors being spread and to trust only official sources of information.
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Got your attention ! Now this .......
That is just silly and would make any ship towing such things a sitting duck for most threats because it would be unable to manouver.... it wouldn't even be able to dock and certainly would be bloody useless for most normal roles.
At a top speed of perhaps 2 Knots... useless....
@GB
regarding anti drone warfare
imho not only small calibre guns but something like cannister shots / programmable shot amo
Very much agree, though I would say those sea surface speed boat type drones would need to be penetrated to ensure they blow up so cannister rounds would likely not be so effective unless they are very large calibre rounds like 100mm plus.
For smaller aerial drones carrying small bombs or RPG warheads then cannister rounds and even just shotguns would be effective and useful... getting everyone on deck and firing would be useful because they might try a sneak attack where they fly in a few quiet drones with HE frag warheads to kill crew on deck so their sea surface drones can get through, but I would suspect that PKMs and the new light machine guns and RPKs would be more effective than shotgun type weapons simply because belt feed weapons allow you to walk your fire to the target and then once you start hitting it hold that point of aim and keep hitting it as long as possible.
In such situations belts are better than box mags.
Patrol boat needs to be cheap.
It is an anti piracy boat for operating off the African coast against pirates... it was never intended to be used against western pirates (HATO).
And it wasn't expensive and would be much cheaper in the role than the Udaloy class destroyer that had been used before this patrol boat was designed and developed.
Those fancy and expensive stealth shapes are useless.
AFAIK it is not supposed to be particularly stealthy.
For the anti piracy role such a feature would be pointless.
But bribes are good for GDP growth
Bribes are the only GDP growth.
well drones will replace ships eventually in most of duties.
Not likely... they simply don't have the range and endurance and capacity of a ship for weapons and ammo and aircraft/drones.
Not that ships wont use drones for various purposes too.
Once this munition type was released by the Ukies it has come back to haunt them.
A conventional bomb might take out a few people, but most soldiers spread out so the explosion of one bomb wont get them all. Breaking a 500kg bomb into 1kg bomblets and scattering them over a wide area where each lands 10m apart a 1kg bomb will scatter fragments over 20m easily so every 10 square metres will have the fragments of three or four 1kg bombs shower the area from three or four different directions in a hail of fragments and blast waves.
A 500kg bomb delivers lots of fragments and heavy concussion but the danger area rapidly drops off as the distance increases because bomb fragments are not aerodynamic like bullets and while they start at very high speed they rapidly slow down.
Bomblets from a cluster bomb spread the fragments around before they detonate so the high speed fragments cover a huge area and overlap so there is no place to hide.
The irony is that earlier in the war the Orcs had plenty of vehicles, but now they will be using civilian vehicles or walking which makes them extra vulnerable to fragments from cluster bombs and the Russians have cluster munitions in everything from tube artillery and rocket artillery through to air delivered rockets and bombs and also missiles... and they have a range of munitions for a range of target types.
The US opening pandoras box by sending cluster munitions frees Russias ability to use up cluster munitions that would likely have been needing to be destroyed.
There are many targets where cluster munitions are devastating... this video and the previous video of cluster bombs being used along a tree line show this pretty clearly... in the circle of the munitions detonating I rather doubt anything above ground survived... even with body armour and helmet the wounding would be extensive.... and everyone around you will be as wounded as you are...
Glide kits making them safe to use for the aircraft and accurate for centring the munitions where you want them...
I don't know the price of this one but they don't seem to be building a lot of them even if they have a huge need for such ships for all their maritime area. Wiki sys only 6 planned.
They are a specialised anti piracy patrol boat... they would likely be based in the Black Sea Fleet or Tartus and sailed to off the coast of Africa for their duties.
Those drones are nasty because they don't have anything to counter them. But creating weapons against them is easy. Like I said a simple launcher to launch big explosives with thousands of shrapnels to cover an area of 50m by 50m with an optical guidance and mn in the loop will make any attack unsuccessful, a bit like a manned afghanit APS.
The advantage of helicopters with rockets and gun pods or stabilised remote weapon stations (RWS) with thermal imagers and cannon calibre weapons is that they can be used for a range of roles other than dealing with drones or people in speed boats trying to board your boat and attack you.
You also need to be aware that when you come into port that your systems don't attack the Pier or other ships tied up already...
Having 23mm or 30mm cannon means you can also engage other sea surface or ground or air targets too.
Just fire in the direction of the drone when its close enough and it's destroyed.
The issue really is that these drones can have 200-500kg warheads so you really want to destroy them as far from your boat as is possible.
The ideal would be a helicopter with rockets and gun pods that can hit the drones from rather long distances from your ship.
Drones are not a magic bullet . Everyone is making the same mistake , relying on them too much . Drones are really only the working or dirty end of the GPS satellites and Radio communication . Like the brushes or bristles at the end of a Broom . They only work if the handle is not broken . But if the handle breaks , and it will do so in a more intense war , by the use of anti-satellite and EMP weapons , then all these drones are useless . And so is the army that put all their eggs in this basket . They are also more of a weapon for the rich . Those nations that can afford independent GPS systems . Or able to replenish continuously downed satellites .
Very good point.
New systems are often effective but they need to evolve and grow otherwise they can be rendered obsolete.
The first tanks would not be safe in WWII just with anti armour rifles used against them, and as anti armour cannon were developed the armour had to get heavier and smarter.
These vessels that were hit relied on HMG and gun mounts but were overwhelmed by numbers.
Having 4 or 5 remote weapon stations with stabilised cannon with thermal optics and those drones would have been taken out easily and quickly.
We have heard of drone attacks that have been stopped simply because all the drones were getting destroyed well away from the targets and those drones are not cheap.
This recent attack on the patrol ship reportedly involved 10 drones, which is probably 50 million pounds worth of drones to sink a ship that probably cost half that to build.
Its specialist nature they probably wont spend the money to build a replacement, though they might refloat it and revise its armament so there wont be a repeat.
us bred terrorists plan something? ?
Nuland promised surprises... I doubt it was just an attack on the Crimean bridge...
The West knows it can kill Russian civilians without Russia killing Western civilians in response. Russia never tits for a tat.
When Kiev, with western support and likely encouragement hits Russian civilians the Russians tend to respond by hitting the HQs where they believe such attacks were formulated... often killing the military responsible for the attack.
That is the legitimate and humane way to react to terrorism where you don't become a terrorist yourself.
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GarryB wrote:That is just silly and would make any ship towing such things a sitting duck for most threats because it would be unable to manouver.... it wouldn't even be able to dock and certainly would be bloody useless for most normal roles.
At a top speed of perhaps 2 Knots... useless....
Yes you have a point . However these marine obstacles can be placed in advance in positions in deep waters or Ship can come close to enemy shore and better use Radar and land attack missiles ! The marine obstacles can move now and again a little to stop GPS weapons targeting them ! The towed Logs can be left at anchor and Tug boats can be mobile( to avoid being hit ) and move them as and when needed .....kind of marine trenches