Russia-Pakistan New Dawn

We rejected all the US demands regarding the same.
We did some mistakes, but we are not that fools to fall for them.

I appreciate that while I am pointing out America is using India, that at the same time India is using the US, but they will have to navigate a very narrow path if they want to achieve what they want without heading down a path they can't come back from.

If you want to follow the US and make China an enemy they way the US has influenced a lot of Ukrainians and Georgians to be anti Russian, then down the track no matter what your future relationship with the US, those relationships soured will be hard if not impossible to restore to just being normal.

India has nothing to gain from getting into be with the US.... just look at the cold war.... and the US is proud of its achievements of wooing communist China into its camp of opposing the communist Soviet Union which it saw as being its greatest rival and threat at the time.

They ignore the fact that if they could get on with China, then they probably could have made the same effort and gotten along with the Soviets as well... and there would be no need for a cold war in the first place... but their faces go blank when you say that...

No point in making friends with Pakistan to only make enemies with India and find pakis making new schemes to lobby for more money, there is a reason why USA dumped them in first place.

India is making friends with the US, why can't Russia have better relations with Pakistan?

And lobby for what money... Russia isn't communist... there is no aide or support to fight the west now. Just trade.

The US was using them for all sorts of shit... why wouldn't they ask for money money considering some of the dirty things they wanted.

What is the use of that 200 million dollars if that dirty job leads to my death or my invalidation. I am more realistic than what you think.

Everybody dies, but 200 million dollars could make the lives of family and loved ones comfortable and safe... with 200 million dollars you could go and live in London with your whole family... you would just need a knife proof vest for everyone and you should be fine... you could even buy a soccer team...

Russia would have got more money from single deal with India.

Possibly true, but if India is going to turn to the US and spend ten times more on 100 times less stuff then a lot of Russian companies need to look elsewhere to sell their stuff.

India has chosen AH-64 Apache helicopters for instance... why should Mil not sell their Havocs to other countries... India does not want them, so why should they care who else buys them?

Or are Mil to sell to no one without Indias approval?

The Russians aren't telling India what they can or cannot buy... the US is... the US continues to sell things to Pakistan, but Russia is not allowed?

How does that make sense?

Fair point, that depends on the politics in the end.

As a supplier and trader with Pakistan, Russia would have some influence... without any trade, Pakistan remains a shithole and Russia could not influence them at all.

Perhaps if Pakistan develops and grows and gets wealthier, it might also try to improve its international standing and drop the terrorist support... at least the open terrorist support.

I know it is very much a what if... Saudi Arabia and the US have lots of money but still use terrorists as tools to further their interests around the place.

The engines in the JF-17 are Russian. RD-93. With 150 fighters built considering engines and spares that is not insignificant.

There is a lot of Russian products that Pakistan could use to improve like farm machinery and electronics and machine tools that will be cheaper than anything the US could offer... and Russian products are sold, not leased like US products.

GarryB wrote:

We rejected all the US demands regarding the same.
We did some mistakes, but we are not that fools to fall for them.

I appreciate that while I am pointing out America is using India, that at the same time India is using the US, but they will have to navigate a very narrow path if they want to achieve what they want without heading down a path they can't come back from.

If you want to follow the US and make China an enemy they way the US has influenced a lot of Ukrainians and Georgians to be anti Russian, then down the track no matter what your future relationship with the US, those relationships soured will be hard if not impossible to restore to just being normal.

India has nothing to gain from getting into be with the US.... just look at the cold war.... and the US is proud of its achievements of wooing communist China into its camp of opposing the communist Soviet Union which it saw as being its greatest rival and threat at the time.

They ignore the fact that if they could get on with China, then they probably could have made the same effort and gotten along with the Soviets as well... and there would be no need for a cold war in the first place... but their faces go blank when you say that...

No point in making friends with Pakistan to only make enemies with India and find pakis making new schemes to lobby for more money, there is a reason why USA dumped them in first place.

India is making friends with the US, why can't Russia have better relations with Pakistan?

And lobby for what money... Russia isn't communist... there is no aide or support to fight the west now. Just trade.

The US was using them for all sorts of shit... why wouldn't they ask for money money considering some of the dirty things they wanted.

What is the use of that 200 million dollars if that dirty job leads to my death or my invalidation. I am more realistic than what you think.

Everybody dies, but 200 million dollars could make the lives of family and loved ones comfortable and safe... with 200 million dollars you could go and live in London with your whole family... you would just need a knife proof vest for everyone and you should be fine... you could even buy a soccer team...

    Russia would have got more money from single deal with India.

Possibly true, but if India is going to turn to the US and spend ten times more on 100 times less stuff then a lot of Russian companies need to look elsewhere to sell their stuff.

India has chosen AH-64 Apache helicopters for instance... why should Mil not sell their Havocs to other countries... India does not want them, so why should they care who else buys them?

Or are Mil to sell to no one without Indias approval?

The Russians aren't telling India what they can or cannot buy... the US is... the US continues to sell things to Pakistan, but Russia is not allowed?

How does that make sense?

Fair point, that depends on the politics in the end.

As a supplier and trader with Pakistan, Russia would have some influence... without any trade, Pakistan remains a shithole and Russia could not influence them at all.

Perhaps if Pakistan develops and grows and gets wealthier, it might also try to improve its international standing and drop the terrorist support... at least the open terrorist support.

I know it is very much a what if... Saudi Arabia and the US have lots of money but still use terrorists as tools to further their interests around the place.

The engines in the JF-17 are Russian. RD-93. With 150 fighters built considering engines and spares that is not insignificant.

There is a lot of Russian products that Pakistan could use to improve like farm machinery and electronics and machine tools that will be cheaper than anything the US could offer... and Russian products are sold, not leased like US products.

If your problem is India's relationship with China, then I have questions for you
Who provided nukes and missiles to Pakistanis?
Why are Chinese claiming whole states of India and why they keep changing their claim maps every 5 years?
Why they support pakistan on terrorist matters vis a vis with India despite everyone knowing where terrorists come from?
Who is stopping India from joining NSG?
Those were being done by that certain country before India US relationship improved.
So my ultimate question is who has made who enemy?
As for trade, that is why there is INSTC and Chennai Vladivostok trade route. And we are going to be one of the biggest manufacturers of Sputnik vaccine not Pakistan..
Russia being no more communist state actually makes it easier for Pakistanis to lobby for their interest.
And even today Russia has better trade relations with India..
Not to mention cooperation on nukes.
If our relationship with USA makes us their slave then what was China in 80s and 90s and, Turkey right now?

Who provided nukes and missiles to Pakistanis?

The main man behind the development of nukes in Pakistan was a guy educated in Germany, and the US gave them all sorts of weapons too...

Why are Chinese claiming whole states of India and why they keep changing their claim maps every 5 years?

Is it actually china claiming these regions or is it disinformation from the US?

Why they support pakistan on terrorist matters vis a vis with India despite everyone knowing where terrorists come from?

You mean like America did all through the 1980s with funding from the CIA funnelled into Afghanistan and who knows where else?

Who was handing out stinger missiles like lollies... that was the US too.

Who is stopping India from joining NSG?

China is only objecting to India joining because Pakistan is not a member either.

BTW New Zealand has objected to India joining because India is not part of the Non Proliferation Treaty.

Those were being done by that certain country before India US relationship improved.

Chinese policy is not that india can never join, but that they will only approve when Pakistan joins too.

So my ultimate question is who has made who enemy?

What is the value of being part of the NSG if you don't also sign the NPT?

As for trade, that is why there is INSTC and Chennai Vladivostok trade route. And we are going to be one of the biggest manufacturers of Sputnik vaccine not Pakistan..
Russia being no more communist state actually makes it easier for Pakistanis to lobby for their interest.
And even today Russia has better trade relations with India..
Not to mention cooperation on nukes.
If our relationship with USA makes us their slave then what was China in 80s and 90s and, Turkey right now?

Russia is not complaining about India trading with the US, it is India complaining about Russian trade with china and pakistan... as you mention... Russia no longer has an agenda or ideology to push... they just want to sell stuff.