Naval Weapon Systems & Technology

Cyberspec wrote:Not sure what to make of this...apparently Russia is working on quiet mini torpedoes that would imitate the movement of fish and turtles

Russia's New Stealth Torpedoes Have a Neat Trick: They Can Pretend to Be Giant Fish
http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/russias-new-stealth-torpedoes-have-neat-trick-they-can-23333

Status-6??

AlfaT8 wrote:

Cyberspec wrote:Not sure what to make of this...apparently Russia is working on quiet mini torpedoes that would imitate the movement of fish and turtles

Russia's New Stealth Torpedoes Have a Neat Trick: They Can Pretend to Be Giant Fish
http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/russias-new-stealth-torpedoes-have-neat-trick-they-can-23333

Status-6??

Status 6 is suppose to be huge....the article is about mini torpedoes

Cyberspec wrote:

AlfaT8 wrote:

Cyberspec wrote:Not sure what to make of this...apparently Russia is working on quiet mini torpedoes that would imitate the movement of fish and turtles

Russia's New Stealth Torpedoes Have a Neat Trick: They Can Pretend to Be Giant Fish
http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/russias-new-stealth-torpedoes-have-neat-trick-they-can-23333

Status-6??

Status 6 is suppose to be huge....the article is about mini torpedoes

actually more like crawling mines instead of torpedoes. Status-6 is not only huge but alos very fast.

GunshipDemocracy wrote:...actually more like crawling mines instead of torpedoes.

Zagon-2 self-guided depth charge

Description: The Zagon-2 is an anti-submarine (ASW), trajectory corrected using parachute, air bomb designed originally for release by the Russian Navy Ka-28 helicopters. The 120-kg bomb is intended to engage submarines on the sea surface, under periscope and deep down up to 600 meters utilizing an active sonar target location system and a motion control system with a maximum range of 450 meters horizontally. The Zagon-2 will be integrated onto Il-38 and Tu-142M maritime patrol aircraft and Mi-14 ASW helicopters which may carry up to eight bombs.

http://www.deagel.com/Defensive-Weapons/Zagon-2_a003310001.aspx

The original Zagon-1 from the 1990's

Interesting that they have made mini ATGMs for the IFVs so that it can carry 4 big ATGMs (Kornet) but also a half dozen or more small guided missiles for closer ranges against less hard targets... now they are doing the same with torpedoes, and they are also doing the same with cruise missiles... an interesting trend.

Wonder if they are planning mini AAMs like MANPADS but for modern fighters to hit small targets like UAVs that can be carried in large bundles per pylon to over come the problem of numbers of targets.

The original Zagon-1 from the 1990's

Also called S3V.

Have read it has been supported by a special fuse that can be fitted to standard aerial bombs for use in shallow waters that enables the bomb to sit on the bottom and when a large metal object moves past the fuse will check the size of the target and if it matches what it is after it will detonate.

Imagine a Tu-22M3 flys down an international shipping lane and drops 69 250kg bombs with such fuses....

I have always wondered how the AK-130 fires so fast but I unfortunately am useless at doing research myself.

Does anyone have a cross section or animated video of its inner workings by any chance?

Automated ammo handling systems under the deck with multiple rotary ammo handlers and a vertical rammer for each gun:

Interesting Does anyone know how the autoloader/gun works I am trying to get an idea of how naval autoloaders work.

Is it an upscaled autocannon or does it use an autoloader?

The photos above show under deck clusters of rounds that are moved to a vertical lift to drag the rounds up to the gun mount... as each cluster is emptied the clusters roll around and present the next cluster of rounds to be lifted up to the gun.

I am not sure what happens in the gun turret, but rounds would be rammed into the breach with empty shells ejected and ready to fire rounds stored near the rear of the gun to be loaded and cleared pretty quickly.

The AK130 has two guns so it would have two feeds for the two barrels.

What I am particularly interested in is how the ramming mechinismn works and also how the rounds are fed into it.

Do you maby have some information on the guns of other naval turrets?

just google naval gun turrets cross section in the images section... there should be lots of images...

If you search for that all you get is WWII era naval turrets.

Seems to be not widely available... I have cross section drawings of Coalition in the land and sea based forms but the detail is not very clear and of course being drawings we don't actually know how accurate they actually are...

Worth noting the 90rpm is the combined output for the twin mount so a somewhat more sedate 45rpm per-barrel.
I think there isn't anything particularly special in the system, most modern automatic naval guns seem to use very similar system.

This vid has some footage of the ammo carousel in action (I think I've seen this in better quality previously but not sure where)


To get the round from the vertical to horizontal there is presumably a similar system to the one seen here on OTO Melara guns from 5:10

and

Arm rotates down to the vertical, grabs a round, swings back up in line with the barrel then rammed in.

Rammer is presumably a chain rammer which have been standard in naval guns for a long time & are used in Russian tank auto-loaders. (handy because it means you don't need a huge hydraulic ram sticking out behind the gun)


Personally I've had a hard time understanding how these work & I think only got my head round it while typing this post
Trick is its a chain with links designed so it can only bend one direction, lying flat against the rigid loading tray & with the force axis kept below the pins, the chain stays rigid during ramming but bends round the corner when lifted from below by the curve of the storage canister.

Ah I see so naval guns use an arm that rotates around the same axis as the gun elevation mechanism. That is actually how I used to believe Russian tank autoloaders worked before I knew about the elevation reset of the barrel to 0 degrees inbetween shots.

The tank autoloaders store rounds horizontally so the mechanism is different.


Armata is said to have vertical rounds/90deg autoloader though

hoom wrote:The tank autoloaders store rounds horizontally so the mechanism is different.


Armata is said to have vertical rounds/90deg autoloader though

Yes I already knew that I was just saying before I knew that I though it worked difforently.

Anyway maby we should change this topic to "autoloading mechinisms in general".

Why is it that NATO ships stopped using unguided anti-submarine rockets after the hedgehog and exclusively went to using torpedos for ASW work since the 1960s, while Russian ships up to this day value this type of weapon in the form of the RBU-6000?

Can anyone explain its seemingly extreme importance in Russian and soviet ASW doctrine that almost every Russian warship built has one of them slapped on? Is it assumed that most submarines will be detected just a few kilometers from the ship and that throwing as much explosives into the general area of the enemy sub is more effective than an ASW torpedo? Even if subs wait to get close to an enemy ship to launch their torpedoes, don't they always launch them beyond the range of the RBU-6000, at around 10-20km instead of 5-4km?


I know there is a guided version shooting 90R rockets, so that increases its effectiveness. I know that the Grigoroviches and neustrashimiys only have the guided version. Will the udaloys, slavas, and gepards get one too?


Or is anti-torpedo work the main raison-d'etre of the RBU-6000 in modern times? Have there been extensive tests done measuring the effectiveness of the RBU-6000 against torpedos. If yes, do we know its kill probability? Does the guided 90R rocket have a better kill probability against torpedoes. Is the RBU-6000 as effective as the paket as a an anti-torpedo countermeasure?

It's mainly designed to attack torpedos with different sort of rockets.

You can use it also against a sub if you manage to get in range by going fast on the sub or if you use it in shallow waters where detection range is reduced to 2 or 3 km and torpedos will be harder to operate in those waters I assume. Good weapon for ASW corvettes.

What is good with this weapons is that once lunched you are pretty sure to hit the sub. It works like CIWS and lunch supersonic rockets at a target that is moving at 50 km/h. From a couple of km its just like firing with a sniper rifle at a ship. Its like 100% hit for sure. However torpedos are smaller and fast so who knows what Pk it has against them. But must be good if they use them on evry ship while it is a quite expensive system.

Some western countries have their equivalent like Sweeden. But most of them think their "ability to be better than russian" and their jammers are enough.

Now it is replaced by Paket NK which seems to be pretty good with longer range.

RBU-6000 as stated by ISOS, born as an ASW weapon but evolved to an anti-torpedo defense system and it's now coming back to the ASW role.

The real drawback of the system is that it works through salvos and it's an hardkill system, and in the west it was deemed more effective to lure an incoming torpedo away from its intended target by decoys, but it is universally judged a very effective anti torpedo weapon.

It is judged being highly effective against wire-guided torpedoes, because the wide shock inducted by several detonations should easily break the wire, and it's deemed quite well effective against the torpedoes themselves, even the fire and forget ones.

I have answered this question before on this forum... if you can't be bothered looking that up then I can't be bothered repeating myself here.

Personally I think it is insulting to compare the Soviet system with hedgehog, but if you actually did a bit of research yourself before making such dumb statements you would not say such dumb things.

GarryB wrote:I have answered this question before on this forum... if you can't be bothered looking that up then I can't be bothered repeating myself here.

Personally I think it is insulting to compare the Soviet system with hedgehog, but if you actually did a bit of research yourself before making such dumb statements you would not say such dumb things.

Before. how long before? 2 years? If yes I can't find your explanation.
Also I didn't compare the RBU-6000 to the hedgehogI said its the same weapon type(anti-submarine MLRS).

Also, there is almost nothing detailing the actual usage of the RBU-6000. I looked for info. All it says on the internet is that its an ASW weapon together with its range stats, not actual tactics when using it or its effectiveness.

https://www.russiadefence.net/t1032p250-naval-weapon-systems-technology

Post 251 onwards...

A contract was signed for the purchase of the UET-1 torpedo for the Russian Navy

As reported by the TASS agency on February 28, 2018, the Dagestan plant Dagdizel will build 73 torpedoes (UET-1) for the Russian Navy until 2023. The corresponding contract was signed on Wednesday by the head of the Department for Providing State Defense Order of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, Rear Admiral Andrei Vernigora and Director of Dagdizel Raul Ilyasov, the Russian military department said.



533-mm electric torpedo UET-1E (OKH Ichthyosaur) for the development of Dagdizel Plant (c) Maxim Klimov


"Now we are talking about 73 products, the cost of such a contract is 7.2 billion rubles, it will be in effect until 2023. The first products are planned to be delivered to the Russian Defense Ministry next year, but the contract will be advertised this year, therefore, the enterprise will begin serial production this year, "Lieutenant-General Anatoly Gulyaev, head of the Armed Forces General Directorate of Armed Forces, told reporters after signing the contract.

"The contract is a long-term one, while it is a five-year period." Taking into account the completion of the installation of equipment and production, we hope that the enterprise will complete these works this year. "When confirming the output to full production capacity, the Defense Ministry will return to consideration of the issue of increasing the volume of purchases of these products," he said. .

According to him, UET-1 - a new universal electric torpedo with improved combat and technical characteristics, it came to replace the obsolete self-guided electric torpedo USET-80.

The Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation specified that UET-1 is a torpedo caliber of 533 mm with a longer range than USET-80, higher speed and better detection of underwater targets. Among the features of the new product is the ability to detect the wake of surface ships and the possibility of smooth speed control.

On the bmpd side, we recall that the 533-mm universal electric torpedo UET-1 was developed by the Dagdizel Plant (Kaspiisk) as part of the Ichthyosaur R & D, as well as the well-known material on the vicissitudes of the Ichthyosaur R & D and torpedo developers' struggle.

https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3107834.html

http://eng.mil.ru/en/news_page/country/more.htm?id=12164690@egNews

George1 wrote:A contract was signed for the purchase of the UET-1 torpedo for the Russian Navy

   As reported by the TASS agency on February 28, 2018, the Dagestan plant Dagdizel will build 73 torpedoes (UET-1) for the Russian Navy until 2023. The corresponding contract was signed on Wednesday by the head of the Department for Providing State Defense Order of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, Rear Admiral Andrei Vernigora and Director of Dagdizel Raul Ilyasov, the Russian military department said.

so one torpedo like 100,000 Rubles ~ 1,8 mln USD

George1 wrote:
   "The contract is a long-term one, while it is a five-year period." Taking into account the completion of the installation of equipment and production, we hope that the enterprise will complete these works this year. "When confirming the output to full production capacity, the Defense Ministry will return to consideration of the issue of increasing the volume of purchases of these products," he said. .

I hope otherwise ith productio rate 14 per year soon half of Russian subs will remind without torpedoes