Naval Weapon Systems & Technology

GarryB wrote:The new guns are more accurate, can be aimed faster, and the gun mount itself is much lighter...

At 9 tons, the new gun is 7.5 tons lighter than the older model which weighs about 16.5 tons... that is almost half the weight... a difference that would allow rather more ammo to be carried...

It would make sense to upgrade existing vessels with this new gun... and new gun control sensors to make it more effective too........

Honestly, given the speed that Karakurts are going into production, I would bet all those vessels that might need these new 76mm guns will be retired and replaced by then.

Pretty soon all missile boats of the Fleet will be replaced with Karakurts. They already have 2 shipyards beavering away at them at full speed. Should they add third into the mix we could see plenty of light ships going into early retirement.

Isos wrote:.....

Or they can do like Israeli and put on some of them Tor missiles instead of the big gun. Saar 5 doesn't have gun, just Phalanx and barak missiles. A new luncher for naval Tor can carry much more than the version on Udaloy which are very well protected but takes lot of space. Moreover, they are planning to buid them in great numbers so buikding one with gun and one without gun can do the job, so that both of them protect the other with its own systems. The guns for naval threaths and the tor against missiles and helicopters.

Not a bad idea, they would get some good AA coverage on the cheap. Karakurts and Buyans are bit light on AA segment.

In fact, replacing guns with AA missiles and old AShM with Urans on those Soviet era boats would be very quick and cost effective option. Small ships like those don't really need guns since these days they will be used as support for other vessels anyway.

PapaDragon wrote:

OK so we have:

2x 12418 (those 2 with Uran missiles they are finishing)

2x 23550

6x 22160

That leaves 12 for 22800 so we can hope to see 12 Karakurts laid down until 2020. Just my guesstimate...

Good estimate It totally makes sense.

GarryB wrote:The new guns are more accurate, can be aimed faster, and the gun mount itself is much lighter...

At 9 tons, the new gun is 7.5 tons lighter than the older model which weighs about 16.5 tons... that is almost half the weight... a difference that would allow rather more ammo to be carried...

Clear for me. Since it's lighter, it can be mounted on lighter vessels.

GarryB wrote:It would make sense to upgrade existing vessels with this new gun... and new gun control sensors to make it more effective too.

... but not ships like Molniya/Tarantul-class corvettes and older Ropucha-class landing ships, which are/will be nearing decommissioning.

GarryB wrote:If some ragheads try to use a boat laden with explosives to attack a Russian ship there is nothing like a 76.2mm shell smacking them with twice the mass of a 57mm shell. (76.2mm shells have 6kg projectiles, while the 57mm rounds are 2.8kg projectiles...)

Well, a quick-firing 57mm gun like the Mk 110 made by BAE Systems, with airburst ammo would do the job quite good as well, a 76mm would be quite an overkill against a small motorboat.

PapaDragon wrote:Honestly, given the speed that Karakurts are going into production, I would bet all those vessels that might need these new 76mm guns will be retired and replaced by then.

Pretty soon all missile boats of the Fleet will be replaced with Karakurts. They already have 2 shipyards beavering away at them at full speed. Should they add third into the mix we could see plenty of light ships going into early retirement.

Maybe my estimate is a litlle bit far-fetched, but I think that if 3 shipyards would start spewing out Karakurts, at least 18-24 of them would be made for 2020-2024, and of course, they could (and hopefully will) build more, since there are plenty of Tarantul and Grisha corvettes to replace.

Isos wrote:Or they can do like Israeli and put on some of them Tor missiles instead of the big gun. Saar 5 doesn't have gun, just Phalanx and barak missiles. A new luncher for naval Tor can carry much more than the version on Udaloy which are very well protected but takes lot of space. Moreover, they are planning to buid them in great numbers so buikding one with gun and one without gun can do the job, so that both of them protect the other with its own systems. The guns for naval threaths and the tor against missiles and helicopters.

PapaDragon wrote:Not a bad idea, they would get some good AA coverage on the cheap. Karakurts and Buyans are bit light on AA segment.

In fact, replacing guns with AA missiles and old AShM with Urans on those Soviet era boats would be very quick and cost effective option. Small ships like those don't really need guns since these days they will be used as support for other vessels anyway.

In my opinion, an AK-630M2 "Duet" (which Buyan-M corvettes already have), and a naval version of the Tor SAM system (not the "Kinzhal" one) would be enough for Karakurts and Buyans, "Palash"/"Palma" are better for larger ships (frigates/destroyers/cruisers).

Honestly, given the speed that Karakurts are going into production, I would bet all those vessels that might need these new 76mm guns will be retired and replaced by then.

Depends on how long they want to keep their older vessels in service for... there is still a gap with larger vessels anyway so keeping a few extra lighter vessels makes sense.

These new corvettes can perform many missions previously performed by Frigates or larger vessels so the new corvettes can supplement the older larger vessels while the older corvettes continue the work they are doing for a bit longer.

Or they can do like Israeli and put on some of them Tor missiles instead of the big gun.

Would prefer them to put both big guns and missiles on their ships. The whole focus is standardisation, so arming some with missiles and some with guns defeats the purpose of standardisation.

Newer missiles are much more capable than older models so not having ten times more missiles is not as bad as it appears.

In fact, replacing guns with AA missiles and old AShM with Urans on those Soviet era boats would be very quick and cost effective option. Small ships like those don't really need guns since these days they will be used as support for other vessels anyway.

Combat experience seems to suggest that having more guns is better and not worse. After the Falklands war Soviet vessels were noted to have a lot more HMG positions around the super structure and bridges... I doubt taking away medium and heavy guns is a good idea.

Just like I think it is important to keep a 30mm cannon on the PAK FA, Su-35, and MiG-35.

Clear for me. Since it's lighter, it can be mounted on lighter vessels.

The Soviets/Russians already fitted light vessels with heavy guns... the Pauk class for example would probably have had a 57mm gun if it was a western development.

The new gun mounts means they can fit 100mm guns in ships that previously carried 76.2mm guns already.

... but not ships like Molniya/Tarantul-class corvettes and older Ropucha-class landing ships, which are/will be nearing decommissioning.

For ships serving 5-10 or more years it makes sense... for ships about to be scrapped of course it makes no sense.

Well, a quick-firing 57mm gun like the Mk 110 made by BAE Systems, with airburst ammo would do the job quite good as well, a 76mm would be quite an overkill against a small motorboat.

Anything too small to be engaged by a 76.2mm gun can be engaged with 30mm or small arms fire.

since there are plenty of Tarantul and Grisha corvettes to replace.

They likely wont replace old models one for one...

In my opinion, an AK-630M2 "Duet" (which Buyan-M corvettes already have), and a naval version of the Tor SAM system (not the "Kinzhal" one) would be enough for Karakurts and Buyans,

I agree, but I think a medium calibre gun is more useful than just adding more missiles. The latest model of the TOR system is rather capable...

A new 533-mm UET-1E torpedo will be demonstrated at the IMC-2017 Naval Salon

http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2675097.html

it seems electric torpedoes are getting close with characteristics to thermal ones. but with much less noise.... they are working on isolated cables to supply power from submarine  for first 5 km of travel.
new compact batteries testing for 500seconds of heavy discharge exploatation.

The collision of the USS Fitzgerald make a quite interesting case.

The ships had 10 m/sec speed,and the bigger one has 25 million kg mass.

Means that the maximum theoretical impact force should be way lass than 200 kg of explosive.

Two compartment of the ship get flooded, lost propulsion and combat capability.

The impact profile was more preferable than an anti ship missile.

Means that the damage can be equivalent with one harpoon, and one onyx could destroy the ship completely.

Singular_Transform wrote:The collision of the USS Fitzgerald make a quite interesting case.

The ships had 10 m/sec speed,and the bigger one has 25 million kg mass.

Means that the maximum theoretical impact force should be way lass than 200 kg of explosive.

Two compartment of the ship get flooded, lost propulsion and combat capability.

The impact profile was more preferable than an anti ship missile.

Means that the damage can be equivalent with one harpoon, and one onyx could destroy the ship completely.

Fitzgerald was pierced by container ship's bulbous bow and most of the damage is under the water line. It also hit the compartment where crew sleeps (don't know naval name for that part) hence the missing crew.

They were probably washed away from their beds and into the ocean.

PapaDragon wrote:

Singular_Transform wrote:The collision of the USS Fitzgerald make a quite interesting case.

The ships had 10 m/sec speed,and the bigger one has 25 million kg mass.

Means that the maximum theoretical impact force should be way lass than 200 kg of explosive.

Two compartment of the ship get flooded, lost propulsion and combat capability.

The impact profile was more preferable than an anti ship missile.

Means that the damage can be equivalent with one harpoon, and one onyx could destroy the ship completely.

Fitzgerald was pierced by container ship's bulbous bow and most of the damage is under the water line. It also hit the compartment where crew sleeps (don't know naval name for that part) hence the missing crew.

They were probably washed away from their beds and into the ocean.

don't think so.

Seems like the container bulb is not broken or damaged, so it pushed to the the side of the ship and cracked few welding.
If the bulb pierce the ship then it lost.

Anyway, the energy of the container ship going full speed sideways into the stationary ship and slow to full stop in the navy ship then the energy equivalent of a P-700 impact/explosion energy release.Not considering the fuel .


This accident had fraction of the energy expenditure of the worst case scenario .

The bulb is purely hydrodynamic in purpose and would be fairly solid...

We are not talking about a Sonar radome that contains delicate equipment like a Sonar sensor array.

This is more like a ramming prow that pushes through the water to make it easier going for the ship to pass.

it is the water equivalent of an aerospike.

MOSCOW, June 26. /TASS/. The Fizik deep-water homing torpedo will be featured at the St. Petersburg International Maritime Defense Show in its export configuration, Russia’s United Ship-Building Corporation President Alexei Rakhmanov said on Monday.

More:
http://tass.com/defense/953337

Same Pantsir-M pics as above https://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/95261/
Its being displayed at IMDS
From the comments a brochure

And comparison vs Kashtan:
Kashtan / Pantsir
1. The number of simultaneously engaged targets 1/4
2. Reaction time, with 6-8 / 3-5
3. Range, Missiles, 1.5-8 km / 1.5-20
4. Height Missiles, 5-3500 m / 2-15000
5. Range, art. arms, 0.5-4 km / 0.5-4
6. The height art. arms, 5-3000 m / 0-3000

Nowhere to Hide: Russia Unveils New 'Hovering' Anti-Submarine Bomb

Russian defense manufacturer Techmash presented a new guided anti-submarine munition at the ongoing International Maritime Defense Show 2017 in St. Petersburg.

During the International Maritime Defense Show (IMDS) 2017 that launched in St. Petersburg on June 28, JSC Techmash, a subsidiary of Rostec Corporation, presented its latest creation: Zagon-2E – a unique ‘hovering’ guided anti-submarine bomb.

What really sets this munition apart from its analogues is its ability to "hover" over the water’s surface for up to four minutes, according to a statement issued by Techmash.

The bomb has a target detection range of up to 450 meters, and is designed to be used against both surfaced and submerged submarines, with the latter including vessels operating at periscope depth or lying on the seabed.

It should be noted that the bomb's effectiveness is almost three times greater than that of its predecessor, the Zagon-1E.

https://sputniknews.com/military/201706291055095082-new-anti-submarine-bomb/

Shvabe IMDS-2017: Naval Thermal
Here: http://rostec.ru/news/4520591

Holding "Shvabe " demonstrates optoelectronic surveillance system at the VIII International Maritime Defense Show, which runs from 28 June to 2 July in St. Petersburg at the exhibition complex "Lenexpo" and berthing complex "Maritime Station".

"Center in St. Petersburg is surely among the top three world exhibitions of weapons and naval equipment. Holding Companies are traditional participants of the event. This year, we will demonstrate to the IMDS optical surveillance system that can be installed on various types of vehicles, including sea-going vessels - ships and boats ", - said Deputy General Director of" Schwabe "Dmitriy Zhidkov.

At IMDS-2017 featured products "Schwabe" enterprise - the Ural Optical and Mechanical Plant (UOMZ). UOMZ shows civil optical surveillance systems SON 730, CPA 820, and small-sized stabilized CMC-831 system and the installation sector review chamber for surface ships MTC-C7-201M.

Optical surveillance systems enterprise "Schwabe" allow to receive high-quality and stable image in all types of shooting, at any time, in conditions of limited visibility. With regard to the MTC-201M-C7, it is part of a multifunctional television complex of new generation MTK-201ME for surface combatants. Its tasks include monitoring of surface and air situation in the interests of the defense of the ship, navigation safety and to monitor the take-off and landing of naval helicopters.

@FOTO: Антон Тушин

I was looking into the Shkval, and had heard it was unguided. However, these pictures show some kind of connector on the rear right side of the torpedo. Is this an indication that the Shkval utilizes wire guidance from the launching submarine, or is it something else?

KnightRider wrote:I was looking into the Shkval, and had heard it was unguided. However, these pictures show some kind of connector on the rear right side of the torpedo. Is this an indication that the Shkval utilizes wire guidance from the launching submarine, or is it something else?

Shkval is guided...      From the first production variant to the Shkval II they use today....

Shkval I uses GOLIS inertial Guidance while Shkval II gets Vectored thrust to improve its guidance

Later Variants of the Shkval I got active acoustic terminal guidance as well i heard....

Russia’s Tactical Missiles Corporation Unveils APR-3ME Grif Air Launched Torpedo

JSC Region State Research and Production Enterprise, part of the Tactical Missiles Corporation (TMC), has developed a new APR-3ME Grif airborne anti-submarine missile, which is a modernized version of the APR-3E missile. The new system was unveiled at the MAKS 2017 airshow currently held in Russia.


"The company is showing a new missile at MAKS-2017 in Zhukovsky, near Moscow. This is the APR-3ME (Grif) airborne anti-submarine missile, an upgrade of the APR-3E. The improved capability missile is designed to destroy submarines at depths up to 800 meters moving at a speed of up to 80 km/h. The APR-3ME has the same caliber as its predecessor (350 mm), but the weight and size characteristics were reduced: its length is 3250 mm versus 3685 mm, weight - 470 kg versus 525 kg," the press service’s statement said.

Previously, thanks to its proprietary solid fuel motor designs, the TMC’s company developed a unique APR-1 airborne anti-submarine missile, which initiated further improvement of airborne anti-submarine missiles. So, for instance, the APR-3E missile with a new specially developed turbo-waterjet engine running on composite solid-fuel became an export bestseller. The APR-3E is employed from ASW planes and helicopters and designed to destroy modern submarines, including SSNs, at submerged speeds up to 40 knots (at depths of up to 800 meters) in any water areas of the oceans of the world in sea state up to 6. The APR-3E is distinguished by fast response in target search and detection mode, a high target-missile relative speed after lock-on and, as a result, can kill the target before the latter starts actively counteracting. This area of anti-submarine weapons will continue to evolve.


Source: http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php/news/defence-news/2017/july-2017-navy-naval-forces-defense-industry-technology-maritime-security-global-news/5408-russia-s-tactical-missiles-corporation-unveils-apr-3me-grif-air-launched-torpedo.html

Presidential Decree Calls for More Cruise Missiles and Balanced Fleet for Russian Navy

Long-range precision-guided sea-launched cruise missiles (SLCMs) will be the main armament of the Russian Navy’s surface ships and submarines until 2025. This is stated in Presidential Decree No. 327 "On the approval of the Fundamentals of the Russian Federation’s state policy in the field of naval activities for the period until 2030," published on the official legal information website on July 20, 2017


"Long-range precision-guided sea-launched cruise missiles will be the backbone of armament for the Russian Navy’s surface ships and submarines and coastal forces until 2025. After 2025, hypersonic missiles and diverse robotic systems, including autonomous unmanned underwater vehicles, will enter service with the Navy’s submarine, surface and coastal forces," paragraphs 43 and 44 of the decree say.

In addition, until 2030, it is planned to develop a "naval aircraft-carrying complex," advanced surface ships and submarines (combat platforms), and next-generation deep-sea naval warfare systems. Among the objectives is to deploy naval robotic systems to perform a wide range of combat and support missions.

"By 2030, the Russian Federation must have strong balanced fleets in all theaters of operation that will consist of ships intended to operate in near, far sea zones and ocean areas, as well as of naval aviation and coastal forces equipped with effective precision-guided strike weapons and will have an advanced basing and support system," paragraph 46 of the decree says.


According to the document, the main objectives in the field of the Russian Navy construction and development are to form balanced naval forces, maintain the combat potential of the naval component of strategic nuclear forces at a high level and build a qualitatively new configuration of general-purpose naval forces equipped not only with new and modernized weapons, but also with new and modernized military and special equipment.

The decree notes that one of the priorities in the Navy’s fleet construction and development program in the medium and long term is to build up the fleet capabilities by building and upgrading attack nuclear submarines armed with missiles and torpedoes and diesel-electric submarines, guided weapon surface ships of different classes, naval aircraft, and various surface effect ships.

One of the main strategic requirements for the Russian Navy is to "integrate interconnected and unified naval armament systems, ships, submarines, naval aircraft and coastal facilities into a single control loop."

The decree especially emphasizes the need to completely switch the development and production cycle for key components of weapons and military equipment in the interests of the Navy to Russia’s scientific and industrial foundation.


Among the main goals of the naval activities to prevent military conflicts and provide strategic deterrence, according to the decree, is to enable the use of precision-guided long-range weapons by the Navy ships against any potential enemy, to perform inter-theater maneuvers, including regular submarine voyages under the ice, to increase the combat and operational capabilities of the Black Sea Fleet through the development of a joint force grouping in the Crimea and to provide a continuous naval presence of the Russian Federation in the Mediterranean and other strategic areas of the world's oceans.

"With the development of precision-guided weapons, the Navy faces a qualitatively new challenge: destroying the enemy's military and economic potential by hitting its vital facilities from the sea. The availability of a sufficient number of precision-guided weapons and the capability of using them in various ways will deter large-scale military operations against the Russian Federation. The key components of the strategic deterrence system are nuclear and non-nuclear deterrence. The general-purpose naval forces occupy an important place in meeting strategic deterrence challenges," the document says.

Source: http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php/news/defence-news/2017/july-2017-navy-naval-forces-defense-industry-technology-maritime-security-global-news/5413-presidential-decree-calls-for-more-cruise-missiles-and-balanced-fleet-for-russian-navy.html

Russian Navy to get new unified submarine weapon containers

The Russian Navy will get specialized transportation and launching containers for torpedoes and missiles. They are installed either between the hulls or loaded into the torpedo launcher of a submarine. It allows considerably expanding the types of munitions without changing warship construction and combat control systems. The first to get the containers are the latest Russian submarines of project 885, the Izvestia daily reported.


The unified transportation and launching containers were created by the Malakhit Maritime Design Bureau in St. Petersburg. All submarines have a double-hulled construction comprising internal solid and outside light hulls. The first accommodates equipment and mechanisms in charge of motion and control of the warship, as well as missile and torpedo launchers. The external hull ensures hydro-dynamic characteristics of the warship. Ballast tanks are installed between the hulls.

Leading torpedo arms expert of the Malakhit bureau Alexander Konyukhov told Izvestia the container had passed the test trials and is already installed on perspective Russian warships.
"The container is unified for 533mm-caliber torpedo launchers. It is light and simple and besides big nuclear submarines can be installed on small ones as well," he said.

Torpedoes or missiles are kept in the container a dry state. The container is armed and checked on the ground. Therefore, it does not need any additional maintenance onboard. The launch is remotely controlled with usual equipment.

The new container fires torpedoes, missiles and anti-torpedoes of caliber 324mm and a length of up to 3.2 meters at a depth of up to 400 meters. It looks like an ordinary 4.7-meter long pipe with a locking arrangement in the front. The hull has several standard technical couplings for connecting onboard equipment to launch missile and torpedoes. An impulse gas generator fires the weapons. It allows immediately firing the weapon by pressing the launch button on the control panel.

Expert Dmitry Boltenkov told Izvestia submarines of project 885 (codename Yasen) have a unique construction in the Russian Navy. In contrast to other submarines their torpedo launchers are installed not in the forward hemisphere by behind the conning tower between the solid and light hulls.

"Attack nuclear submarines of project 885 Yasen are most secret ones in the Russian Navy. In contrast to the latest strategic fourth-generation submarines of project 955 Borei all their mechanisms, units and systems are completely new ones which have never been used before. It is high-tech equipment without analogues in Soviet or Russian military shipbuilding," he said.

https://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php/news/defence-news/2017/august-2017-navy-naval-forces-defense-industry-technology-maritime-security-global-news/5531-russian-navy-to-get-new-unified-submarine-weapon-containers.html