Mi-8/17, Μi-38, Mi-26: News

George1 wrote:

eehnie wrote:http://tass.com/defense/1000581

Helicopter and aircraft markets are not independent and Russian Helicopters would be smart offiering this helicopter (Mi-46 designation?) for the Russian market and even for the Russian Ministry of Defense.

The precedent for helicopters of this size the Mi-6/10/22 was a success.

its an old article. We already have June

June just begins, I have little doubt that this contract will be signed, not problem with it.

The most interesting part at this point is the option that Russia has completing the range of helicopters that the custormers are demanding, and specially those that can be of military interest. From bigger to smaller Russian Helicopters have now:

Mi-26
Mi-46?/AHL
Mi-38
Ka-27 family + Mi-8 family
Ka-60/62
Mi-Ansat
Ka-226
Small helicopters under 2 tons of Maximum Take-Off Weight that are only of civil interest.

Of them all are new except two cathegories:

Mi-26:  
Ka-27 family + Mi-8 family: With the Ka-40 Minoga in development, that is likely to be compatible for sea and land based platforms.

The new AHL is a safe bet, is created at request of the custormers, in this case at request of China, with more than enough potential orders before to begin. The success is assured, and would not make sense to offer not it to Russian customers, including the Russian Ministry of Defense, with a Russian engine.

Russian helicopters has been reluctant to offer it to Russian markets, but likely they will realize that with the Mi-26 on the market and the Mi-38 comming an important customer prefered the development of a new helicopter just in the middle of both, because the new helicopter fits better their needs. China is not a rare case, this can be also the case of many other customers, including in Russia, and to complete the local offer with the new helicopter can close the door to foreign helicopters of this size, and can take a good part of the market for aircrafts of this size.

The new Mi-46(?)/AHL is just of the size of the An-72/71/74 and the An-148/158/178. The new helicopter is coming just in the moment when the production of the An-148 is being stopped in Russia. Russian Helicopters can fight to take orders of aircrafts of this size with this new helicopter, like the new Mi-38 can also fight to take the orders in the size cathegory of the An-24/26/30/32, the An-140 and the new Il-112.

To note that with the success assured, the development of a Russian engine for this helicopter, if necessary, would not hurt the business, being instead an opportunity of increasing the profit for Russian aircraft engine companies. The Mi-6/10/22, previous helicopter of the same size cathegory, had Russian made engines.

Also, there is a plan of another new helicopter of this size, the Ka-102, that will also require Russian engines. This future helicopter will include the new high speed technologies, it means that likely will require long testing period. To offer this new Mi-46(?)/AHL helicopter to Russian and foreign custormers can help to a even more careful development of the Ka-102, as a gap closer. There is a demand of the customers, of which the Chinese demand is only one example, and not a rare one. Surely one of them, the Mi-46(?)/AHL or the Ka-102, is required in the markets before the end of 2025.

The customers that need an aircraft/herlicopter with 10-15 tons of payload will not buy a Mi-38, because it does not fit the needs. And also can leave the option of a Mi-26 of 20 tons of payload because of being too big and more expensive. Russian helicopters should not fear that this helicopter damages the prospect of the Mi-26. If this would be the case, it would mean that the Mi-26 would be oversized for the needs of the customers, but I do not think this is right. The Mi-26 would keep still its own niche for customers that need to deal with bigger loads, and likely the development of a new successor of the Mi-26 will be required soon. Likely the competence for the Mi-26 will be more in the aircrafts of the same size than in this new helicopter.

So apparently US idealogues/anti-Russia stuff has forced Afghan govt to buy (or have bought for it) Blackhawks to replace the Mi-17s the US had purchased for them earlier in the decade.
Small problem though http://charly015.blogspot.com/2018/06/el-uh-60-no-hace-las-cosas-que-si-hace.html

Training on the UH-60A Black Hawk continued for 22 pilots and 16 special mission operators. As of March 2018, 8 Black Hawks had been delivered to the AAF with another 45 purchased but not yet fielded out of a total 159 planned as part of the ANDSF Road Map's AAF modernization.The US plan to replace the AAF's fleet of Russian-made Mi-17 helicopters with Black Hawks will require Black Hawk crews to operate over areas currently serviced by the Mi-17.

The transition presents several challenges that have yet to be fully addressed. Black Hawks do not have the lift capacity of Mi-17s. They are unable to accommodate some of the larger cargo items the Mi-17s can carry, and in general, it takes almost two Black Hawks to carry the load of a single Mi-17. Furthermore, unlike Mi-17s, Black Hawks can not fly at high elevations and, as such, can not operate in remote regions of Afghanistan where Mi-17s operate. According to 9th AETF-A, the Mi-17s will play a "crucial role" in the near term fighting season.170 In the future, as Mi-17s phase out of service, the aforementioned challenges will become more pronounced.

By the end of 2019, the Mi-17 inventory is scheduled to be reduced from 47 (24 of which are in long-term maintenance) to 20. The fleet size is scheduled to decrease to 18 by the end of 2021 and then down to 12 by the end of 2022.

Afghans are performing roughly 80 percent of the maintenance tasks on their Mi-17s and rely on contractor logistics support for the remaining 20 percent. According to the 9th AETF-A, the Mi-17 is "much more conducive to the education level available in the general Afghan population than the UH-60As" when it comes to maintenance. The expectation is that the AAF will be almost entirely reliant on contractors for Black Hawk maintenance in the nearto mid-term. Maintenance contracts will scale down as the Mi-17 fleet size decreases, and according to the 9th AETF-A, the contracts will also reduce emphasis on aircraft readiness and place more emphasis on building Afghan maintenance capacity.Since the Mi-17s will be taken out of service, it is not clear how much benefit there is in continuing to train Afghans to maintain the Mi-17.

Afghanistan got Mi-17s over Blackhawks in the first place because they would be able to do the high altitude service required and be maintained locally...

Thats an ugly as hell cammo

Bunch of new defensive suite on fuselage sides & under nose.

It's not the last camo pattern we'll see, so don't worry.
The first serial Mi-171A2 helicopter in the sky

In the new Mi-171A2 was introduced about 80 changes in relation to the basic model, including the use of all-composite blades advanced aerodynamic configuration and engines VK-2500PS-03 with a digital control system. VK-2500 is a version of the turbo-jet engine TV3-117VMA, developed by the Russian Design Bureau.
http://nvo.ng.ru/nvoevents/2018-05-25/2_997_mi171a2.html?print=Y

Russia’s new military transport helicopter performs debut flight

A Mil Mi-38T transport and troop landing helicopter performed its debut flight on November 3

http://tass.com/defense/1029858?_ga=2.107872898.1826436823.1541684583-483209670.1530708105

Good news

A strong competitor for the Il-112 taking advantage by earlier development..

Every now & then you see a Mi-26 make other stuff look like toys...

hoom wrote:Every now & then you see a Mi-26 make other stuff look like toys...

Real surreal...whats even crazier is that it's probably a good 15 meters or more behind the Mi-35, but still dwarfed it anyway.

I saw the video. The Mi-38 looks weird without weapons outriggers.

Here's the video:

https://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/114451/

It isn´t that simple.

Hole wrote:It isn´t that simple.

Yeah I think it's more like a hybrid between Mi-8/Mi-17 and the Mi-26, which isn't a surprise because it's supposed to be the 'middle-ground' between the two helicopters....like a Mi-8/17 started transforming in to the Mi-26, but stopped midway.

I like it, is like future streamlined version of Mi-8.
I wonder if it'd be worthwhile giving it the new high speed rotors, or its already got them?

https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3425670.html

GarryB wrote:I have never seen a version of the Mi-38 that had wings or weapon outriggers of any kind...

It has always been a replacement/upgrade for the Hip family of helicopters, but has the misfortune that the Hips are still good aircraft and are still selling well.

Probably wont be as big of a success as the Mi-8 series, but likely find its place in the ground forces. Likely relieves much of the Mi-26 of it's personnel transportation duties, where the Mi-26's focuses solely on moving supplies and equipment, and Mi-38's focuses solely on moving troops and civilians alike. We've seen Mi-8/17's self-defense suites, but never on Mi-26's likely because of military doctrine. You won't bring a Mi-26 anywhere near a hot spot, only will defended green-zones, so it's a moot point to add a DIRCM suite for it, but the Mi-8/17's doctrine is an entirely different conversation altogether (hence the armament and self-defense suites). I believe the main existence of the Mi-38's is to take the duties of Mi-8/17 but to a much greater and more powerful capacity (armaments, troops, ECM, etc.).

It can replace Mi-8 series but it won't happen over night

Most likely they will keep making them in parallel for couple of decades at least and when every last bug is ironed out and production pace reaches maximum levels they will slowly start to reduce Mi-8 production for VKS

Production for export will continue for quite a while after that though, plenty of cash to be made there

I think i read somewhere in the past that military version of Mi-38 is supposed to have retractable wheels., I guess the idea was abandoned

Mi-26T2 with DIRCMS 'Vitebsk', apparently from 2016, and we haven't heard about it since:





I'm more inclined to believe the military versions of Mi-38 will have Vitebsk suites serial produced.