Russian population

..what is the actual population of modern Russia? According to official figures, we are 146 million. But in 2010, Ekaterina Ulitina, an employee of the Central Analytical Center of the Civil Registry Office, said that the population of Russia was 89.7 million people. Soon she was fired. If a number of demographers agree with Ulitina, and a number of demographers agree with it, not only the legitimacy of election reports crumbles - many questions arise: about the responsibility of the state, about the need to dismantle the existing political system, about the way to overcome the demographic catastrophe ...https://www.mk.ru/politics/2018/11/25/rossiyu-ubivaet-novaya-ideologiya-kto-postavil-krest-na-strane.html?from=mwdjt

Even if off by a few million, the current figure is different, but not by much as there's a negative growth. OTH, Japan's population is 127M, or ~37M more:
http://www.worldometers.info/world-population/japan-population/

My question is, how could Russia's economy ever approach or be = to Japan's with such disparity, setting aside other factors, in order to be able to afford an adequate surface navy her admirals want?

Who was talking about Amur class subs?

You were... I took the quote from your post directly above mine!

It is right there.... you can read it again if you like.

The design of a ship should be right before you start building the first ship. The first ship should have a small lead before the second ship but you shouldn´t wait until the first ship is put into service before starting the second one.

You don't know if the damn thing works until you have made one and fully tested it before putting it into service.... once the first one has entered service, if there are not problems or changes needed then you can say lets mass produce it... and even then only if all the parts you needed to build it are available... if you don't have enough engines to make 10 there is little point in ordering 10.

The problems with the engines of Gorschkov (and other classes) are nearly solved.

And Mass production has NEARLY started.

Now they should order more but instead some Admirals want a larger version. So the production of the Gorschkov would be stopped after four ships,

The time to make desired changes is before mass production starts... what is wrong with this?

If they had ordered 20 before the first one was built then they would have half a dozen or more ships that the customer is not happy with... this way they will get more ships that they want.

a prototype of the new Gorschkov-M will be build and tested and maybe then they order more. Instead they should keep building the now proven design.

The navy is the customer... if they want bigger versions then they are paying the bills... they will pay for the four built but I doubt they will pay for any more small ones that they clearly don't want.

If they want a larger ship, the Navy should order a destroyer.

You think they don't know the difference?

They want bigger Frigates. Get over it.

They will likely revise the sizes of the other vessels they want to increase their capacity too... and why wouldn't they?

It was the right decision to slow down the building of the Gorshkovs to keep the yard busy until a domestic engine can be produced. Because it is difficult to pile up ships. Wink But now it is time to return to normal conditions. Do with the Gorshkov and Steregutschiy (Gremyaschiy) and Dershkiy what is already done with the Karakurt and Bykov and the Kilo subs and order decent numbers.

These engine delay wont effect the really big ships as they will be nuke powered... they will have all different reasons for their delays...

My question is, how could Russia's economy ever approach or be = to Japan's with such disparity, setting aside other factors, in order to be able to afford an adequate surface navy her admirals want?

What is this shit?

Maybe (146-89.7=56.3) the 56.3 million people discrepancy are actually all time travellers and that explains the 100s of millions Stalin and Lenin killed that are not actually reflected in the meticulous records the commies kept about everything.

Even if off by a few million, the current figure is different, but not by much as there's a negative growth. OTH, Japan's population is 127M, or ~37M more:

But in 2002, Mr O. U. Fukumama, an employee of the Central Analytical Center of the Civil Registry Office, said that the population of Japan was 8.3 million people and all the rest are sex robots. Soon he was fired... which means he was telling the truth of course...

But does that not prove the total corruption of Japan and the need to dismantle it and rebuilt is as a used car sales yard type venture?

All Soviet leaders were hiding true figures of wars & regime caused losses to avoid responsibility & blame leading to questioning of CPSU legitimacy of being in absolute power in the 1 party system.
She was fired because "any truth creates a scandal". If it was a minor matter they could have her or some1 else make a statement of a mistake in their interpretation of data.
The real reason for the pension reform that triggered protests & its revisions in the Duma is that there's not enough workforce, not the alleged lack of funds. So the older folks now must work a few years longer to pick up the slack, otherwise more migrants will need to be brought in sooner. Guess who that may be? Central Asian Muslims & many of the 40M young & middle aged Chinese men who will never get a wife, while Russia has 11M (as of 2012) surplus of women:
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/08/14/why-the-former-ussr-has-far-fewer-men-than-women/
https://www.prb.org/russiasdemographicdeclinecontinues/
The single 1s simply have no interest in marrying Russian men:
https://www.thedailybeast.com/russias-single-ladies-fed-up-with-countrys-useless-bachelors

Tsavo, i think your looking for the Russian population thread.

From what i have heard, a lot of guys that are fed up with their spoiled European or American women, go to Russia.

As for the population decline, it's because the Women are now more enfranchised then in the past, as they become more educated and wealthier, they also raise their demands for Higher-Tier Men creating an 80/20 situation.
And they have this utter refusal to lower their standards.

Russia has taken some correct steps to resolve this problem, but clearly more has to be done in order to get the Women to make babies.
IMO, Russia should just introduce consequences for Women who don't start having kids at a certain age, i have recommended the Draft as an easy way to "persuade" these Women.
But we will have to wait and see, that said, so long as Russia maintains Strong borders, they will have time to resolve the issue.

The same could not be said for the retarded (Western) Europeans.

All Soviet leaders were hiding true figures of wars & regime caused losses to avoid responsibility & blame leading to questioning of CPSU legitimacy of being in absolute power in the 1 party system.

Lets be clear... the various Soviet leaders told their populations what they wanted and lied as often as they liked (much like western leaders then and today).

The actual data recording was actually very accurate and was kept secret.... often to be revealed when a new leadership entered power with the intention of putting down the previous leadership.

The reality is that accurate information was kept and provided to the leadership... what was done with that information was up to the leadership, but does not make the actual figures recorded false.

She was fired because "any truth creates a scandal". If it was a minor matter they could have her or some1 else make a statement of a mistake in their interpretation of data.

If it was such a secret why is she not dead... like Assange would be if the US could get their hands on him?

Does she even exist or is she a figment of the CIAs imagination?

The real reason for the pension reform that triggered protests & its revisions in the Duma is that there's not enough workforce, not the alleged lack of funds.

So it must be much worse in the west who already have a retirement age older than that of Russia, yet also claim to have much larger populations... man... there must be 100 million Americans that don't exist...

So the older folks now must work a few years longer to pick up the slack, otherwise more migrants will need to be brought in sooner. Guess who that may be? Central Asian Muslims & many of the 40M young & middle aged Chinese men who will never get a wife, while Russia has 11M (as of 2012) surplus of women:

I think your links say it all... the first one is Pooh research and the others don't look any better...

The single 1s simply have no interest in marrying Russian men

That is funny, because I have seen a documentary showing all the single male children in China have turned to a life of isolation... living at home with their parents and playing video games all day with no socialising at all... happening in the west too...

Russia should just introduce consequences for Women who don't start having kids at a certain age,

That is a bit sexist... why not have a wanker tax that unmarried men over the age of 20 have to pay until they are fathers?

GarryB wrote:

Russia should just introduce consequences for Women who don't start having kids at a certain age,

That is a bit sexist... why not have a wanker tax that unmarried men over the age of 20 have to pay until they are fathers?

Because Men aren't the Baby makers.

And introducing a Bachelors tax will also mean that men will have less resources, so less men will qualify for the upper 20%, which will directly lead to a worsening decline.

GarryB wrote:

All Soviet leaders were hiding true figures of wars & regime caused losses to avoid responsibility & blame leading to questioning of CPSU legitimacy of being in absolute power in the 1 party system.

Lets be clear... the various Soviet leaders told their populations what they wanted and lied as often as they liked (much like western leaders then and today).

The actual data recording was actually very accurate and was kept secret.... often to be revealed when a new leadership entered power with the intention of putting down the previous leadership.

The reality is that accurate information was kept and provided to the leadership... what was done with that information was up to the leadership, but does not make the actual figures recorded false.

She was fired because "any truth creates a scandal". If it was a minor matter they could have her or some1 else make a statement of a mistake in their interpretation of data.

If it was such a secret why is she not dead... like Assange would be if the US could get their hands on him?

Does she even exist or is she a figment of the CIAs imagination?

The real reason for the pension reform that triggered protests & its revisions in the Duma is that there's not enough workforce, not the alleged lack of funds.

So it must be much worse in the west who already have a retirement age older than that of Russia, yet also claim to have much larger populations... man... there must be 100 million Americans that don't exist...

So the older folks now must work a few years longer to pick up the slack, otherwise more migrants will need to be brought in sooner. Guess who that may be? Central Asian Muslims & many of the 40M young & middle aged Chinese men who will never get a wife, while Russia has 11M (as of 2012) surplus of women:

I think your links say it all... the first one is Pooh research and the others don't look any better...

The single 1s simply have no interest in marrying Russian men

That is funny, because I have seen a documentary showing all the single male children in China have turned to a life of isolation... living at home with their parents and playing video games all day with no socialising at all... happening in the west too...

Russia should just introduce consequences for Women who don't start having kids at a certain age,

That is a bit sexist... why not have a wanker tax that unmarried men over the age of 20 have to pay until they are fathers?

Actually we had it in Italy during fascism. It was called "tassa sul celibato" (in english "bachelor tax").

Only unmarried man above 18 had to pay it.
My grandfather had to pay it for many years, since he got married only in his forties...

I believe in addition there was some sort of special prize and recognition for women with more than 7 children.

Bachelor tax lol. Adding insult to injury

Hannibal Barca wrote:Bachelor tax lol. Adding insult to injury

Why is Bachelor an injury, not having a women Burning you finances should be considered a benefit not an injury.

The reality is that accurate information was kept and provided to the leadership...

No, they had more accurate secret data & had reasons to hide those figures. Many researches after 1991 confirmed that the latest official figures were still much lower. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excess_mortality_in_the_Soviet_Union_under_Joseph_Stalin
https://www.nytimes.com/1989/02/04/world/major-soviet-paper-says-20-million-died-as-victims-of-stalin.html

In the seventeen years between 1992 and 2009, the Russian population declined by almost seven million people, or nearly 5 percent—a rate of loss unheard of in Europe since World War II. Moreover, much of this appears to be caused by rising mortality. By the mid-1990s, the average St. Petersburg man lived for seven fewer years than he did at the end of the Communist period; in Moscow, the dip was even greater, with death coming nearly eight years sooner. https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2014/09/02/dying-russians/

By some estimates, around 10M died premature deaths since 1991.

If it was such a secret why is she not dead...

If she was killed, it would only confirm that she was probably right.
Russia had the highest number of abortions per woman of child-bearing age in the world according to UN data as of 2010.
..As of 2010, the abortion rate was 37.4 abortions per 1000 women aged 15–44 years, the highest of any country reported in UN data.
Abortion statistics were considered state secrets in the Soviet Union until the end of the 1980s.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_Russia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_Russia#Current_law

The life expectancy is higher in the West, so the retirement age there is still higher & shouldn't explained with silly insinuations.
The Russian population is lower than it could be for the same reasons that there's no strong middle class- past losses, inadequate legal system/laws, economy, emigration, crime, corruption, medical care, nutrition, & alcoholism/drugs.

Because Men aren't the Baby makers.

Are you one of these femenists that think women don't need men?

Listen sister, men are still an essential part of the process... either directly or via test tube.

And introducing a Bachelors tax will also mean that men will have less resources, so less men will qualify for the upper 20%, which will directly lead to a worsening decline.

Perfect... if the bachelors tax means men have less resources then what they need is a partner to live with to share lifes costs with... whether as a sort of flat mate or a life partner. I know a lot of students that got married because the student allowance was more for married couples... but often turned nasty later on if one of them pissed off the other so they decided to go for a separation and half the other persons assets...

Actually we had it in Italy during fascism. It was called "tassa sul celibato" (in english "bachelor tax").

Only unmarried man above 18 had to pay it.
My grandfather had to pay it for many years, since he got married only in his forties...

I believe in addition there was some sort of special prize and recognition for women with more than 7 children.

So there are examples of this being tried... it would be interesting to examine the results and see whether it made the expected social changes of if other factors had more influence...

Bachelor tax lol. Adding insult to injury

I have a few married friends who say divorce is expensive, because it is worth it...

Why is Bachelor an injury, not having a women Burning you finances should be considered a benefit not an injury.

I suspect his logic is that married people are happier, so such a tax is a punishment for not finding the right partner to live their lives with...

No, they had more accurate secret data & had reasons to hide those figures. Many researches after 1991 confirmed that the latest official figures were still much lower. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excess_mortality_in_the_Soviet_Union_under_Joseph_Stalin
https://www.nytimes.com/1989/02/04/world/major-soviet-paper-says-20-million-died-as-victims-of-stalin.html

Aww come on... you are quoting the New York Times?

In the seventeen years between 1992 and 2009, the Russian population declined by almost seven million people, or nearly 5 percent—a rate of loss unheard of in Europe since World War II. Moreover, much of this appears to be caused by rising mortality. By the mid-1990s, the average St. Petersburg man lived for seven fewer years than he did at the end of the Communist period; in Moscow, the dip was even greater, with death coming nearly eight years sooner. https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2014/09/02/dying-russians/

By some estimates, around 10M died premature deaths since 1991.

How can there be 10 million premature deaths if the population declined by only 7 million people... and boy... lets look at the Ukraine... by some estimates the population has gone from about 60 million to about 20 million over a much shorter period than 1992-2009...

If she was killed, it would only confirm that she was probably right.

If she was saying the wrong things, why would we even know her name?

Why wasn't her message crushed before it became public?

Russia had the highest number of abortions per woman of child-bearing age in the world according to UN data as of 2010.
..As of 2010, the abortion rate was 37.4 abortions per 1000 women aged 15–44 years, the highest of any country reported in UN data.
Abortion statistics were considered state secrets in the Soviet Union until the end of the 1980s.

It was widely known that in the Soviet Union abortions were a form of birth control.

And highest reported... what about abortions not reported?

The life expectancy is higher in the West, so the retirement age there is still higher & shouldn't explained with silly insinuations.

Silly insinuations like the corrupt government murdered over 1/3rd of the population and has covered it up all these years...

The Russian population is lower than it could be for the same reasons that there's no strong middle class- past losses, inadequate legal system/laws, economy, emigration, crime, corruption, medical care, nutrition, & alcoholism/drugs.

But western figures are above reproach... no questioning them right?

The lack of a strong middle class?

WTF are you smoking?

Dem dumb ruskies don't eat right... not enough burgers to get them through that cold weather... not enough sugar water like Coke or Pepsi... they would be better off drinking straight vodka than that sugar water crap.

I guess as the gap between rich and poor in the US increases it will face a future of a disappearing population... I mean millions default on home loans and the government bails out the banks... did that destroy the middle class in the US or did it need student loan debt to really push it over the edge?

Did you even look at the sources for that wiki page you posted a link to?

Could do a search on "bullshit anti soviet, anti Russia propaganda from the west" and that page would come up on the first or second page of links....

You know it is bullshit if it is western and it "cares" about dead Russians or Soviets...

where is the fears for the lives of Syrians or Libyans, or for that matter Palestinians or Yemeni... or even the Iranians or North Koreans... collateral damage... all of them.

GarryB wrote:

Because Men aren't the Baby makers.

Are you one of these femenists that think women don't need men?

Listen sister, men are still an essential part of the process... either directly or via test tube.

Listen, it is the Woman who decides whether the Babies get born or not.
Men have little to no say in this.
So when your dealing with a population decline, the party most responsible is the Women.

And introducing a Bachelors tax will also mean that men will have less resources, so less men will qualify for the upper 20%, which will directly lead to a worsening decline.

Perfect... if the bachelors tax means men have less resources then what they need is a partner to live with to share lifes costs with... whether as a sort of flat mate or a life partner. I know a lot of students that got married because the student allowance was more for married couples... but often turned nasty later on if one of them pissed off the other so they decided to go for a separation and half the other persons assets...

Without said resources you aren't qualified to get a partner.
The issue here is the 80/20 situation, you need to break this cycle and the only way to do it, is to put some pressure on Women who don't make kids.

Aww come on... you are quoting the New York Times?
How can there be 10 million premature deaths if the population declined by only 7 million people... and boy... lets look at the Ukraine... by some estimates the population has gone from about 60 million to about 20 million over a much shorter period than 1992-2009...
If she was saying the wrong things, why would we even know her name?
Why wasn't her message crushed before it became public?
And highest reported... what about abortions not reported?
Silly insinuations like the corrupt government murdered over 1/3rd of the population and has covered it up all these years...
The lack of a strong middle class?
Dem dumb ruskies don't eat right..

If the NYT quotes some1, why not?
Don't be silly! 10M r in the entire firmer USSR, many of them were ethnic Russians. Most of the ethnic Russians outside of the RF just in the ex-USSR now live in Ukraine: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_diaspora#Former_USSR
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine#Population_decline

Ms of them went abroad over the years & may return if/when the situation improves. https://regnum.ru/news/polit/2529997.html
The loss of highly skilled workers will hamper the Russian economy for years to come. Russia's educational and health care systems will further decline. Innovative companies and projects will largely set up shop outside Russia's borders, and private enterprise in the country will diminish substantially. Russia already lags woefully behind the world in average money directed toward research and development, but losing the people behind such efforts will accelerate the trend. As a result, Russians will continue to depend on state-run industries and energy revenue to stay afloat, making the whole country vulnerable to outside shocks, such as changes in oil prices.
https://worldview.stratfor.com/article/problem-russias-best-and-brightest
Unlike u, I can read Russian research results done after 1991 that prove that the official Soviet figures r lower than actual losses between 1941-45; Stalin's methods didn't change till his death in 1953, so Ms more died in those 8 postwar years. Ever since, Samizdat was circulating, despite the official monopoly on information. Figures do not include an estimated 20 million children not born because the war depressed fertility/birth rates.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties_of_the_Soviet_Union#Demographic_studies_of_the_population_losses
https://www.britannica.com/technology/samizdat
https://www.newsamizdat.com/

So, if not for those losses, the RF could now have a few dozen Ms more population. Likewise, the PRC suppresses 45-78M figure of her population loss between 1949-76:
https://www.quora.com/How-did-Mao-manage-to-kill-78-million-people
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_killings_of_landlords_under_Mao_Zedong https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Leap_Forward#Famine_deaths
https://www.heritage.org/asia/commentary/the-legacy-mao-zedong-mass-murder
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/11/the-cultural-revolution-50-years-on-all-you-need-to-know-about-chinas-political-convulsion
Her books r banned in China: Mao: The Unknown Story

Now any1 can say/write anything as long it's not against public safety. If there is controversy, a person can be gagged but not before a word is out in print &/ blogosphere.
Just the abortions #s that were reported r enough to see that there were too many. To keep their men happy, many women didn't insist on using condoms that were disliked & of low quality.
"According to experts, around 20 million people with incomes below the poverty line could benefit from the food assistance programme," Doctor of Economic Sciences Leonid Kholod, ex-chief of the Russian government's department for the development of the agro-industrial complex, said in an interview with RBTH.
The average subsistence level in Russia is 173 euros (or $194) per month at the moment.
https://www.rbth.com/politics_and_society/2017/06/01/why-is-russia-bringing-back-food-coupons_774782

The Russian government may spend 240 billion rubles ($3.6 billion) on a national food stamp program to support an estimated 15-16 million Russian citizens whose poverty has deepened amid an economic slump, the RIA Novosti news agency reported Thursday.
https://themoscowtimes.com/articles/russia-plans-36-billion-food-stamp-program-as-poverty-rises-49819
https://realnoevremya.com/articles/3076-regional-deputy-nikolay-bondarenko-lives-on-54-usd-during-a-month

Listen, it is the Woman who decides whether the Babies get born or not.
Men have little to no say in this.

If that is the case then why are there so many abortions in Russia?

Women changing their minds?

Most children are not planned.

So when your dealing with a population decline, the party most responsible is the Women.

And bullying them into having children is not a solution...

Does your mother know you talk this way about women on the internet?

Does she know you think so little of the females of the species... they are just human cows for men to make babies with?

Without said resources you aren't qualified to get a partner.

Of course.... what the government should do is give all eligible males a Ferrari... hell even give the married ones a Ferrari so they can all pull and get girls pregnant... who gives a shit about the women or their new babies... it is all about getting those numbers up right?

Except what you will likely find is the abortion rate mushrooming enormously, and a lot of broken marriages.

The issue here is the 80/20 situation, you need to break this cycle and the only way to do it, is to put some pressure on Women who don't make kids.

You think giving more power to men in relationships would increase the population?

If the NYT quotes some1, why not?
Don't be silly! 10M r in the entire firmer USSR, many of them were ethnic Russians. Most of the ethnic Russians outside of the RF just in the ex-USSR now live in Ukraine:

Why would I trust any information from such a source... how can I... according to them Russians are genetically evil people... they just can't help themselves...

I would think they would cherry pick the facts to suit the agenda they are pushing at the time.

During WWII the Soviets were our stoic allies in the war against fascism... today they oppose our imperial right to cultivate fascism in Kiev and Tiblisi and must be exterminated...

I wouldn't even believe the NYT to tell be the date.

The loss of highly skilled workers will hamper the Russian economy for years to come. Russia's educational and health care systems will further decline

Why would education and health decline?

If anything both seem to have greatly improved since 1991.

Innovative companies and projects will largely set up shop outside Russia's borders, and private enterprise in the country will diminish substantially. Russia already lags woefully behind the world in average money directed toward research and development, but losing the people behind such efforts will accelerate the trend. As a result, Russians will continue to depend on state-run industries and energy revenue to stay afloat, making the whole country vulnerable to outside shocks, such as changes in oil prices.

But Russia doesn't make anything and invents nothing because everything new is created in the US... they just copy. Wa Wa Wa...

Amusing that all the best people in Russia have moved to the west, yet the west seems to see Russia as a really serious threat... the fucked up western view to a T... it is simultaneously on the brink of collapse and just about to take over the world...

You could grow a lot of crops with that manure...

Figures do not include an estimated 20 million children not born because the war depressed fertility/birth rates.

Oh, dear god... how amusing... so Soviet losses in WWII could easily be tripled because all of the people who would never be born because of it... are you drunk?

So, if not for those losses, the RF could now have a few dozen Ms more population.

Assumptions.... and who is to say those extra dozen million of people might not have left the Soviet Union in 1991 too... taking families with them?

Her books r banned in China:

Is it because it is right wing western propaganda bullshit?

Now any1 can say/write anything as long it's not against public safety. If there is controversy, a person can be gagged but not before a word is out in print &/ blogosphere.

No they can't... several prominent western reporters have lost their jobs overnight and been isolated and ridiculed by their peers for offering support to the Palestinians... try it.

Just the abortions #s that were reported r enough to see that there were too many. To keep their men happy, many women didn't insist on using condoms that were disliked & of low quality.

So abortions were an effective fix for a problem. There are only too many abortions when the waiting list is more than 9 months.

It is funny that the west is so anti abortion, yet will happily supply Saudi Arabia bombs to murder children in Yemen...

"According to experts, around 20 million people with incomes below the poverty line could benefit from the food assistance programme," Doctor of Economic Sciences Leonid Kholod, ex-chief of the Russian government's department for the development of the agro-industrial complex, said in an interview with RBTH.
The average subsistence level in Russia is 173 euros (or $194) per month at the moment.

Wow, so they are catching up with the US and their food stamps?

Perhaps a less biased source could be found to give a more balanced view... or are you suggesting there are no trailer parks in the US and everyone has their own home (as opposed to one owned by the bank).

The Russian government may spend 240 billion rubles ($3.6 billion) on a national food stamp program to support an estimated 15-16 million Russian citizens whose poverty has deepened amid an economic slump, the RIA Novosti news agency reported Thursday.

Yes, America should be ashamed of its bullying tactics to try to force Putin to capitulate to the will of the west, but the west has always used economics as a weapon... a brutal blunt weapon that hurts the most vulnerable in society the most... and Russia is clearly adapting to deal with the problems the evil west is creating.

Ironically, the food sanctions counter imposed on the EU means Russian food production has exploded, so if anyone can afford to feed their own people it is now Russia.

GarryB wrote:

Listen, it is the Woman who decides whether the Babies get born or not.
Men have little to no say in this.

If that is the case then why are there so many abortions in Russia?

Women changing their minds?

Most children are not planned.

They are the ones who decide, they are the decision makers, they are the responsible party for any issue with population decline.
It's about time people hold them accountable.

So when your dealing with a population decline, the party most responsible is the Women.

And bullying them into having children is not a solution...

Does your mother know you talk this way about women on the internet?

Does she know you think so little of the females of the species... they are just human cows for men to make babies with?

Yea don't bully them, Mohamed will, and he will get the job done, so go ahead embrace replacement.
Godforbid you "bully" the Wamen.

Without said resources you aren't qualified to get a partner.

Of course.... what the government should do is give all eligible males a Ferrari... hell even give the married ones a Ferrari so they can all pull and get girls pregnant... who gives a shit about the women or their new babies... it is all about getting those numbers up right?

Except what you will likely find is the abortion rate mushrooming enormously, and a lot of broken marriages.

Your Bachelor tax is a dead end, the only thing it'll do is crash the Birth rates.

We can clearly see in the West that the empowerment of Women has led to population declines across the board, only by empowering Men will you have stable population.
Patriarchy is the only way.

No, you will have a properly stable and growing population.

The issue here is the 80/20 situation, you need to break this cycle and the only way to do it, is to put some pressure on Women who don't make kids.

You think giving more power to men in relationships would increase the population?

Yes, without a shadow of doubt.

Why would I trust any information from such a source...

The NYT quoted a Russian researcher.

Why would education and health decline?

Do u know what describes the American higher education? Russian professors teaching Chinese students! That means many of them emigrate & don't teach in Russia.

..Russia doesn't make anything and invents nothing because everything new is created in the US... they just copy. Wa Wa Wa...

It's not a zero sum game, pl. stop exaggerating!

..so Soviet losses in WWII could easily be tripled because all of the people who would never be born because of it... are you drunk? Assumptions.... and who is to say those extra dozen million of people might not have left the Soviet Union in 1991 too... taking families with them?

This factor was mentioned by others- men away from home can't father babies, & those killed never will. There were also many women at & near the front (my grandmother & her sister included) that could become mothers then, but never did.
Not tripled, but those ~20M unborn between 1941-45 could also have children between 1960-85 but never would, & not all of them would leave.

Is it because it is right wing western propaganda bullshit?

No, they don't want to rock the boat of "harmony" under the CCP rule & avoid of the repeat of 1989.

So abortions were an effective fix for a problem.

No, many got died when it was illegal & performed by lay people; many couldn't have kids again. Orphanages were also full.

Wow, so they are catching up with the US and their food stamps? ..are you suggesting there are no trailer parks in the US and everyone has their own home (as opposed to one owned by the bank).

U doubted they had nutrition problems & I posted some supporting info. If there r poor people, their nutrition will also be poor w/o help. We r talking about Russia, not USA, so pl. refrain from changing the subject!

Ironically, the food sanctions counter imposed on the EU means Russian food production has exploded, so if anyone can afford to feed their own people it is now Russia.

The quality of that food will still be lower, as they don't produce certain things as well or at all that they been importing.
The only way to increase the birth rate to a required level is to make conditions in which women don't have/willing to work outside of home at all. Then, many of them will choose to forget feminism, stay at home, have the time & energy to have 2 or more babies & take care of the house shores.
Working women have difficulty finding adequate day care centers.
The burdens of housework, caring for the children, and cooking and shopping are being borne primarily by women whether they work or not. http://academics.smcvt.edu/geography/sweden.htm
https://slate.com/human-interest/2013/04/can-a-country-boost-its-low-birth-rate-examples-from-around-the-world.html
https://www.mercatornet.com/features/view/the-failure-of-swedens-motherhood-experiment/21058
http://mentalfloss.com/article/33485/6-creative-ways-countries-have-tried-their-birth-rates

Only way to do that, is to make sure price of goods are easily within purchase range for 1 person working. In other words, cost of rent/mortgage. The first step was taken by offering free housing for people with 3 kids or more.

Or as said, subsidized daycare.

Government programs to increase birthrates should be implemented in regions with majority ethnic Russians / Orthodox Christians only. On the other hand, measures to decrease population growth should be imposed on Islamic majority regions unless the population in these areas agree to Russofication and convert to Orthodox Christianity.

They are the ones who decide, they are the decision makers, they are the responsible party for any issue with population decline.
It's about time people hold them accountable.

Funny because most Women I know complain that it is the opposite... they want kids but their husbands don't, but I love your view that all women are the same and every woman is in full control of their man in their relationship... I guess that must mean physically abused and battered women really were just asking for it... I mean if there is no way for a man to tell a woman what to do...

Yea don't bully them, Mohamed will, and he will get the job done, so go ahead embrace replacement.
Godforbid you "bully" the Wamen.

Well if you want fictional characters to solve the problems, why not pick Father Christmas or Superman... BTW how many children do you actually have, or more importantly how many has your wife let you have?

Your Bachelor tax is a dead end, the only thing it'll do is crash the Birth rates.

You sound so certain... is there a sensible reason for this or just opinion?

We can clearly see in the West that the empowerment of Women has led to population declines across the board, only by empowering Men will you have stable population.
Patriarchy is the only way.

If men had babies the human race would be extinct in one generation...

Yes, without a shadow of doubt.

Hahaha... what you really want is a population dominated by Muslims and Catholics... prodigious breeders the pair... though obviously not with each other...

The NYT quoted a Russian researcher.

Don't care if it painted a spare room in its house, the NYT is incapable of seeing beyond its own interests.

Do u know what describes the American higher education? Russian professors teaching Chinese students! That means many of them emigrate & don't teach in Russia.

Yet Russian universities still win various international competitions in Edu land and it is a Russian hypersonic missile entering service first.

Russia certainly does not invent everything but they seem to be getting pretty self sufficient in most things, despite the alledged brain drain... BTW if I had a dollar for every time some local politician has popped up and cried about the brain drain of all our bestest and brightest going over seas to Australia or the UK or the US... except we also get the Aussie news and the American news and the British news all complaining about the exact same thing.

Funny that when it is poor oppressed people it is a caravan of invasion, but if they had skills in engineering or science they are encouraged to come anywhere... but lets not judge our sources of information on that should we?

It's not a zero sum game, pl. stop exaggerating!

Oh, but it is... reality would break if anyone in the US actually thought it might not actually be that bad to live in Russia...

You can't get the unwashed masses to continue their monotonous pointless labour all day and watch movies and TV all night thinking their lives are worth while if they realise their might be people some where else that don't have to work so hard and get looked after by their government if they have health problems...

It would be chaos... society would break down because people would stop buying stuff they don't need...

No, they don't want to rock the boat of "harmony" under the CCP rule & avoid of the repeat of 1989.

Wow.... Westerners are so full of shit... the people have a right to know... as long as it is in our interests, otherwise lie right to their faces.

I am sure Israel has a few books on its banned books list too, but you can't criticise them because that is anti semitic.

And guess what... my spell checker is saying I spelt semitic wrong because I did not use a capital letter...

No, many got killed when it was illegal & many couldn't have kids again. Orphanages were also full.

When was it illegal?

U doubted they had nutrition problems & I posted some supporting info. If there r poor people, their nutrition will also be poor w/o help. We r talking about Russia, not USA or NZ, so pl. refrain from changing the subject!

Blocking food imports from the EU and US would make great strides in improving the quality of food Russians eat...

The quality of that food will still be lower, as they don't produce certain things as well or at all that they been importing.

Yeah, that is an argument often used regarding Russian wheat... and it sounds plausable... except it is close minded bigoted crap.

You are making assumptions without any evidence but now that I challenge you on it you will open your magic Russia is bad and can't do anything right list and find a quote or a link that proves the water is inferior in Russia and therefore everything that uses water is also inferior to anything produced in the perfect unspoilt west.

Don't waste your time.

The only way to increase the birth rate to a required level is to make conditions in which women don't have/willing to work outside of home at all. Then, many of them will chose to forget feminism, stay home, have the time & energy to have 2 or more babies & take care of the house shores.

Ahhh, this is about feminism... women with rights don't want to be women any more?

Working women have difficulty finding adequate day care centers.

Russian women have traditionally worked more than western women and really don't have issues with feminism... most of the time it is the grandparents that look after the kids while the parents work.

The burdens of housework, caring for the children, and cooking and shopping are being borne primarily by women whether they work or not.

WTF has Sweden got to do with Russia? Talk about going off topic...

Besides all Swedens population problems have been solved... all those darkies arriving that like a bit of white meat.... just make sure there are plenty of new mosques going up every year every where and things will be sweet.

It is all a bunch of old toss... the world is not going to run out of people any time soon, and having more people in your country is no way to improve it... in fact less is better for everyone.

Nibiru wrote:
Government programs to increase birthrates should be implemented in regions with majority ethnic Russians / Orthodox Christians only. On the other hand, measures to decrease population growth should be imposed on Islamic majority regions unless the population in these areas agree to Russofication and convert to Orthodox Christianity.

Why would you advocate such an inflammatory policy for Russia?

Russia has the same obligations to all its citizens, and represents all its citizens, regardless of ethnicity, religion or political viewpoint.

And Russian Muslims are no less and no more patriotic in my experience.

If Russia can't live with increasing its Muslim population as well as its Christian one, then rather than discriminatory policies - it would make more sense to give Muslim regions independence (even if they're not asking for it, which they aren't); and then the Christian part can do what it wants. But this is a very cynical solution that presupposes that Christians and Muslims can't live together - whereas in fact in Russia they have been already for hundreds of years without major issues.

It's mostly because everyone else doesn't trust the Muslim population due to their history, recent at least.

Not saying they are all evil terrorists. But one group of people that an eye needs to be kept on for obvious reasons. And most see that with their numbers increase, so do the amount of issues.

I'm not saying I believe that....fully.

Why would you advocate such an inflammatory policy for Russia?

In order to survive and preserve Russia's national integrity, drastic and forceful policies will have to be carried out. As I mentioned before, Muslims are hated in countries like India, China, Myanmar, Thailand, Nigeria, Philippines, Serbia, Bulgaria, East Timor, etc. for a Reason. The plight of non-Muslims in majority Islamic countries is not difficult to dig up. Conversion to other religions or becoming an Atheist is punishable in one way or another in almost all Islamic majority countries while at the same time Islamic organizations are lobbying non stop for right of Muslims to multiply and propagate in non-Islamic countries. A slow growth of Muslims is still growth and though it may take 20 years, 50 years, even 100 years, a time will come when Muslims will outnumber non Muslims and when that happens Muslims will be able to carry out their Jihad more openly, the massacre of non muslims will happen even in broad daylight. Islam is an ideology that is in constant war against non muslims until they conquer the whole world. China is setting up those re education camps in Xinjiang for a good reason. my only wish is for the rest of the world to follow China's example before the muslims completely take over other countries and expand their caliphate. In Indonesia, the former Governor of Jakarta has been forced to resign just because he was accused of Blasphemy and because he is a Christian, same fate goes to the girl in Pakistan whom the Islamists wanted dead because of false accusations of blasphemy. Having a significant Muslim population is trouble for every non-islamic countries and that includes Russia. there wouldn't be a 1st or 2nd Chechen war if Chechens were Christians or Buddhists.

AlfaT8 wrote:...............
Yea don't bully them, Mohamed will, and he will get the job done, so go ahead embrace replacement.
Godforbid you "bully" the Wamen...

AlfaT8 wrote:

GarryB wrote:...............
You think giving more power to men in relationships would increase the population?

Yes, without a shadow of doubt.

I diagnosed the issue here

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incel

GarryB wrote:

They are the ones who decide, they are the decision makers, they are the responsible party for any issue with population decline.
It's about time people hold them accountable.

Funny because most Women I know complain that it is the opposite... they want kids but their husbands don't, but I love your view that all women are the same and every woman is in full control of their man in their relationship... I guess that must mean physically abused and battered women really were just asking for it... I mean if there is no way for a man to tell a woman what to do...

Deny all you like, White-Knight all you want, in the end someone will have to make a decision, embrace replacement or put the Women down.
My money is on the former, because Europe has no real leaders, except for Russia and maybe a few other Eastern-European countries.

Yea don't bully them, Mohamed will, and he will get the job done, so go ahead embrace replacement.
Godforbid you "bully" the Wamen.

Well if you want fictional characters to solve the problems, why not pick Father Christmas or Superman... BTW how many children do you actually have, or more importantly how many has your wife let you have?

At least 60 to 70% of the Men from the middle-east call themselves Mohamed.
That depends on how much authority i have, and in the West Men don't have any, which is reflected in their Birth rates.

Your Bachelor tax is a dead end, the only thing it'll do is crash the Birth rates.

You sound so certain... is there a sensible reason for this or just opinion?

There is no Historical precedent of this ever working.
And i already explained how it will crash your birth rates.

We can clearly see in the West that the empowerment of Women has led to population declines across the board, only by empowering Men will you have stable population.
Patriarchy is the only way.

If men had babies the human race would be extinct in one generation...

No doubt, because Men are the ones who build and maintain society, not Women.

Yes, without a shadow of doubt.

Hahaha... what you really want is a population dominated by Muslims and Catholics... prodigious breeders the pair... though obviously not with each other...

Religion is irrelevant, you can have a Muslim patriarchy, Christian patriarchy, Jewish, Buddhist, whateve, so long as the Men have authority over Women your population numbers wont falter.
Take a look at Iran, they allowed Women to have more freedom and their fertility rate went to sh%t, compare the Khomeini era to the Post-Khomeini era.