Next Generation Rocket Angara: News

GarryB wrote:First he was butt hurt because Russia was abandoning space to American domination because Angara was incapable of carrying large loads to LEO...

yes.

GarryB wrote:
now he is complaining that the system they propose wont be able to do what they are proposing it will be able to do.

exactly i think it wont.

GarryB wrote:
Perhaps he just comes here to complain and this is therapy for him?

Perhaps he does not understand economics in the real world.

Hey im not the headless chicken here....

Lets look at angara once again. It was to have a7 heavy version. it was talked about and planned untill 2014 at least...

then they "found out" it would need a larger core.Oooooops ....
then they found out it would need a special launch pad ... Ooooops....
then they recalculated and-  it would be so expencive they cancelled it. Ooooops.....

So ,so many rocket scientists and people talked about angara from a1- to a7 version for over 10 years and nobody thought of that. Thats is called a piss poor managment and a bad plan .
So now they are building angara-A5 with hydrogen upper stage and say it can deliver same as angara a7. ahahahha ok frankenstein stopgap emergency  plan. i say it wont work.
Its just so pathetic and chaotic beyond belief.
Even now there is not angara A-3 and soyuz will fly for many many years , they built a expencive brand new launch pad for it with building and stuff at vostochny ,and they plan to replace it with another type of rocket phoenix or soyuz -5 whatever monster https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhHJbhEtHGQ
Whole angara project is starting to lose purpose, with 2 out of 4 versions not being built at all , and its becoming a tragedy......
And im the one with "problems" ,ok.

Yes, you are the one with problems.

WTF do they need a heavy lift rocket right now for?

One might be useful in 20 years time for manned missions, but a group of smaller launches will always be cheaper and safer and simpler.

First launch send up the basic structure of the space ship for the long journey... it could be telescoped inside itself for the launch and expanded in orbit when it is time to fuel it up... three or four launches of fuel to fuel it up and load food supplies and equipment and then a final launch to take up the crew... do some checks and then start burning that fuel... before hand you would have sent another slightly smaller rocket with robots to set up camp at the destination and start searching for water to start producing fuel and air and of course water supplies for when the crew arrives.


Where does a super expensive super large rocket become useful?

ok but heavy lift vehicle could be made modular simmilar to angara model but with heavy 4 engined URMs.
zenit is about 450tonns which is small.    if current angara URM is about 142t i would lower it to 140t and made big URM about 560t (4 times larger).
both URMs would use same engine.
when kuznetsov wanted to restart nk-33 production for light soyuz they wanted to modernise and uprate it to nk-331

http://www.lpre.de/sntk/NK-33/modif.htm
https://www.google.rs/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=14&ved=0ahUKEwi-7-CzsILMAhVtb5oKHU_YCTo4ChAWCCwwAw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fcyberleninka.ru%2Farticle%2Fn%2Fkosmicheskie-dvigateli-sntk-imeni-n-d-kuznetsova.pdf&usg=AFQjCNGgfNphdiDmTCegOPpuFZu6GINZ-w&sig2=qbAA6LDZuAgp0eSPMjLqzw&bvm=bv.119028448,d.bGs&cad=rja

-increased combustion chamber pressure from 148-175kg/cm and some tweaks but more then 90% commonality to old nk-33. so trust of 185t , which is lower then rd-191 (192 t). but cheaper ,lighter and easier to manrate engine.
why is this light and heavy division is good because you can build them all low ,all high ,and also  mix them.

light URMs would power A1-3,3t , A3-10t ,A5 -18t  to LEO ,so they would replace light launchers , soyuz launchers , and old proton-k.
heavy URMs would payload  A1 - 14,5t ,A3- 46t , A5-75t. so replace zenit ,planned angara A5v (A7), and heaviest version used for heavy launcher- which with hydrogen stage would go up to 100t to LEO as in energias proposal.
and a third option combining central Heavy Urm + light urm on sides : so heavy URM+2 light URM would give 23t to Leo , heavy+ 4 light -30t , 3 heavy urm + 2 light urm- 50+t
all in all ,very wide range of payloads would be available and all launchers replaced.

zenith is 450t weight ,diamether is 3,9m so increasing diamether to 4,1m like proton would increase 10% weight and losing second stage engines and fairing would gain another 10% so heavy URM would be diamether like proton and lenght like zenit maybe higher by few methers, about 44m. this is important for industrial commonality, cranes ,transports ,machinery, etc. and also would be all russian thing.
https://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%97%D0%B5%D0%BD%D1%96%D1%82-3SL#/media/File:Zenit_3sl_sizes.svg


i will use 2014 good year for launching:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_in_spaceflight
22 soyuz launches , light A3 version would replace it.
8 proton  would replace heavy 4 engined urm + 2 light urm ,version.
1 zenit launch, would be replaced  by 1 heavy urm.
and few more 3 light launchers replaced by 1 light urm.

so how many engines would they need for boosters?  66+ 48 + 4+3= 121 engines. thats 1 engine every 3 days so its mass produced.
i didnt count angara a5 test and cancelled seazenit launch.
if you use heavy launcher with 20 engines on booster stages you go up dramatically in production and i also didnt count a nk-331 modified for second stage (urm-2) engine (nk-41).

GarryB wrote:


Where does a super expensive super large rocket become useful?

Because having a super heavy rocket will allow Russia to more faster reach the moon
and deploy a Base there?

Because having a super heavy rocket will allow Russia to accelerate their plans to Mars
manned mission ,for having the capability to lift heavy equipment there?

Because having a Super heavy rocket will allow Russia to build faster a space station and
be prepared for the militarization of space ,if Americans as they have done before , abandon
their space treaties and start deploying weapons in Space?

Because it will help Russia to take a major lead in space in so many ways , like the above
mentioned?

because it helps the image of Russia leadership in space in the world and create many new jobs
and this also helps to create lots of new jobs and push their technology industry?

Why does Gagarin had a need to fly to space? by your logic ,it was a waste of time for soviets to fly to space or moon and mars because there was no need for it.  

By your logic Gary ,the plane will have never been invented either ,and risk never taken ,because there was no need for it.  By your logic ,Christopher Columbus will have never traveled
across the Oceans ,where never anyone before traveled because there was no need for it and it was too expensive to try to travel across the atlantic ocean..and America continent never discovered.

Major inventions and major discoveries only happens when people take the lead and seeks
to go where no one before have gone. Staying as a taxi to the ISS is not going to help Russia to
become a leader in space and attract investors.Once Russia develop super heavy rockets ,and master the technology of super heavy rockets and start traveling to the moon and mars ,for real ,not in hollywood movies ,a new market will be created for it ,new technological challenges will show up ,but also new possibilities too ,the potential for space tourism ,around the moon for example in super heavy rockets  with many people . new needs will be created , new business will surface and a nation wide unity will show up ,that wasn't there before. it will be sochi multiplied by 100. and Russia have everything it needs to defeat the west in where it really matters ,in winning the hearts of society with their technology and business , but Russia miss the opportunities by not being more aggressive in space and others areas where they have a lot of promise.

Im not asking the impossible. If Russia reduce the size of its navy by 30% ,that is decommision its older warships ,and perhaps cut is budget for Sports by the same, they will save MANY billions dollars enough to increase by 200% the budget of their space program. Without spending any extra.  This is to modify Russian priorities.

Gary ,Russia spend every year about $70 billions on its defense Industry. (while its space industry only spend at best $2 billions a year. )

Money that they spend to counter their own retarded policy with Americans ,of blocking their imperialism ,but at the same time doing nothing to really become an alternative to Europe to follow and become a leader too.  

again im not asking for Russia to spend a single dime extra of its nation budget. All im asking that Russia takes more seriously space than it does. Cut $10billions from its defense industry and use it on space and you will have a 5 fold increase on its space budget.

A super heavy rocket , a new space shuttle a new space station done by Russia ,that orbits in Russia latitudes ,and a mini base in the moon ,and manned travels to mars ,will not only help Russia attract lots of new business ,investors and improve their nation image and leadership in the world and lift the morale and unity of their citizens,but also it can be easily used to help their nation defense too , with the capability to deploy any hardware at any orbit and in almost any weight and at any time easily and go beyond earth orbit too.

Angara assembly photo report:

http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/77259/

The second "Angara-A5" launch satellites for early warning

Carrier rocket "Angara-A5" at the end of the year, scheduled for the second launch from the cosmodrome "Plesetsk" should be put into orbit at least two satellites for space echelon (EC) warning system (EWS). This was reported by TASS a source in the space industry.

"Plans for the launch from Plesetsk second heavy" Angara "re-adjusted, and now to the left An indication spend start before the end of the year deadline -.. December," - said the source. According to him, during the start-up "is planned at least two orbiting . perhaps three satellites of the new generation " . The official confirmation of these data TASS has no new devices, therefore, must become part of the Single space systems - orbital echelon of the early warning system. As long as it is represented by only one satellite, which was launched in late 2015. MOSCOW TASS 12

http://www.arms-expo.ru/news/kosmoss/angaru_a5_zapustyat_so_sputnikami_preduprezhdeniya_o_raketnom_napadenii/?utm_campaign=shareaholic&utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=socialnetwork

lets keep on topic...
keep it simple , angara 5v with all modifications is not!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLQeqMaHVYs

Russia’s Angara rockets can take 60% of world launches — manufacturer

More:
http://tass.ru/en/science/889492

Russian Defense Ministry to receive 2nd Angara rocket by yearend

The deal is conducted under federal space program

OMSK, July 29. /TASS/. The Khrunichev Space Center will deliver the 2nd Angara-A5 carrier rocket to the Russian Defense Ministry by the end of 2016, Center Deputy CEO Roman Khokhlov told TASS on Friday.

"Under the federal space program, we are to deliver the ready-made rocket [to the customer] by the end of 2016 for acceptance," Khokhlov said, adding that the launch date for the 2nd heavy Angara carrier rocket would be set by the customer.

At the first stage, the Omsk-based Polyot production association, which is part of the Khrunichev Space Center, will be annually producing five heavy and several light Angara family rockets, Khokhlov said.

"If necessary, the production facilities will help increase this number several-fold," the Khrunichev Space Center deputy CEO said.

"To give an idea of Polyot’s role in the production of the heavy Angara rocket, for example, it can be said that over 70% of its 55-meter height is now manufactured in Omsk. This share will increase after the manufacture of the nose fairing is transferred to Polyot," Khokhlov said.


More:
http://tass.ru/en/science/891582

In Omsk "Polyot" created a new production site for production of the carrier rocket "Angara"


n the Omsk space Association built the first in Russia Assembly shop universal rocket modules for the production of carrier rockets of new generation "Angara" launch from the cosmodrome "East".

Siberian plant to start assembling Angara rockets this year — governor

The production facility is due to be ready in the second quarter of 2017

SOCHI, March 1. /TASS/. Polyot, an Omsk-based rocket manufacturer within the Khrunichev State Research and Production Space Center, will launch the full cycle of assembling Russia’s new Angara rocket this year, Omsk governor Viktor Nazarov said.

"From 2017, the Angara rocket will be assembled in the Omsk Region only. Works to launch the full technical production cycle is currently under way," the governor said at the Russian Investment Forum that ended in Sochi on Tuesday evening.

The production facility is due to be ready in the second quarter of 2017, the governor said.

The Angara family comprises eco-friendly oxygen-kerosene carrier rockets from the light to heavy classes. The Angara-class light carrier rocket was launched for the first time in mid-2014. The first heavy carrier rocket blasted off in late 2014.


More:
http://tass.com/science/933336

Second launch of heavy Angara rocket postponed until 2018 — manufacturer

The launch was previously scheduled to take place this year

http://tass.com/science/939421

MOSCOW, April 5. /TASS/. The second launch of the heavy Angara-A5 rocket was postponed until 2018, Andrei Kalinovsky, who heads the rocket’s manufacturer, told the Kommersant business daily.

"We have put it off until 2018," the Khrunichev Center chief said in an interview, published in Wednesday’s edition of Kommersant.

The launch was previously scheduled to take place this year.

"The reason is quite trite: the research and development efforts coincided with the transfer of production to (the Siberian city of) Omsk, and, by mutual consent with the Defense Ministry, we decided to hold additional tests. They are needed to confirm that the Omsk plant is ready from the point of view of production quality, sequence of production operations and qualification of personnel," Kalinovsky was quoted as saying.

The light version of Russia’s new environmentally friendly rocket is expected to be launched in 2019, and its components are currently being tested.

"We have signed one solid contract with the Korean aerospace institute for a launch in 2020. One launch so far, but the overall interest to this rocket on the commercial market is quite high," the official said.

While I am pissed off at the delay, this is acceptable reason.

It's not every day that you start rocket engine production on assembly line. When Henry Ford did it back in the day it had quite the influence on automotive industry.

Expert: Decision to drop Angara project made due to mistakes in space strategy

If Russia had had a long-term national strategy, such unexpected decisions could not have been made, according to an expert

MOSCOW, June 2. /TASS/. The decision to give up the project of creating an Angara-A5P carrier and develop instead a new rocket for manned launches to lay the basis for a super-heavy rocket for lunar missions is due to strategic planning errors, a space expert said on Friday.

Cosmonaut-tester, President of the Moscow Space Club and member of the Russian Academy of Cosmonautics Sergei Zhukov, believes that this measure will hardly allow Russia’s State Space Corporation Roscosmos to save much.

"I don’t think that this measure will save any funds. It is necessary to continue work on that rocket instead of starting to develop a new one. This [decision] looks strange. I believe that if expenditures on the development of a super-heavy rocket and the construction of two launch pads for the Angara rocket are calculated, the Angara project will turn out to be more advantageous. A super-heavy rocket is needed for Russia in the long term but this theme should be addressed gradually, in the format of R&D works, some developments and the accumulation of technological experience but not now," the expert said.

According to him, it would be more expedient to finalize the Angara rocket, even if building two launch pads at the Vostochny spaceport and assembling a lunar transient module in the near-Earth orbit, instead of dropping the work implemented and starting the development of a new rocket.

In the expert’s opinion, the change of plans is related not only to the country’s difficult economic situation but also to certain strategic miscalculations in the long-term space program planning.

If Russia had had a long-term national strategy, such unexpected decisions could not have been made, the expert noted.

"We spoke some time ago for adopting a national cosmonautics development program. As there is no such a strategy, I completely don’t understand the expediency of a super-heavy rocket. In my view, the decision has been made in favor of sectoral rather than national interests," the expert said.


More:
http://tass.com/science/949367

i have been saying that million times.
and the hard consequences of that .

George1 wrote:Expert: Decision to drop Angara project made due to mistakes in space strategy
...................
According to him, it would be more expedient to finalize the Angara rocket, even if building two launch pads at the Vostochny spaceport and assembling a lunar transient module in the near-Earth orbit, instead of dropping the work implemented and starting the development of a new rocket........

Multiple launch would have made sense if there were two or three of them but final plan called for SIX launches with in-orbit assembly. That is three launches too many.

George1 wrote:........
"We spoke some time ago for adopting a national cosmonautics development program. As there is no such a strategy, I completely don’t understand the expediency of a super-heavy rocket. In my view, the decision has been made in favor of sectoral rather than national interests," the expert said...........

Problem is not state strategy. You think USA has strategy for this? In last couple of decades they bounced from expanded ISS to manned lunar missions to asteroid landing to manned mars missions to SLS to private platforms and everything in between.

You don't need national strategy to do basic logic, you need contractors to keep their eyes on the ball and their heads out of their asses.

Fact remains that Angara got the trimming because instead of Krunichev dropping Proton the moment Angara got the green light and pushing all possible variants of Angara aggressively from smallest to super-heavy, they wasted more than a decade dragging their feet and and lobbying for obsolete unreliable platform that is Proton.

And now when budget gravy train crashed you have all these lobbyists sorry, ''experts'' coming out of the woodwork to play Monday morning quarterbacks.

Why were these experts keeping quiet all this time while Krunichev was dicking around with their Soviet leftover firework pipe?

Krunichev was sitting on it's ass and lost as a result. They should feel very lucky to be left with this much. Energia is back in now.

George1 wrote:Expert: Decision to drop Angara project made due to mistakes in space strategy

If Russia had had a long-term national strategy, such unexpected decisions could not have been made, according to an expert

MOSCOW, June 2. /TASS/. The decision to give up the project of creating an Angara-A5P carrier and develop instead a new rocket for manned launches to lay the basis for a super-heavy rocket for lunar missions is due to strategic planning errors, a space expert said on Friday.

Cosmonaut-tester, President of the Moscow Space Club and member of the Russian Academy of Cosmonautics Sergei Zhukov, believes that this measure will hardly allow Russia’s State Space Corporation Roscosmos to save much.

"I don’t think that this measure will save any funds. It is necessary to continue work on that rocket instead of starting to develop a new one. This [decision] looks strange. I believe that if expenditures on the development of a super-heavy rocket and the construction of two launch pads for the Angara rocket are calculated, the Angara project will turn out to be more advantageous. A super-heavy rocket is needed for Russia in the long term but this theme should be addressed gradually, in the format of R&D works, some developments and the accumulation of technological experience but not now," the expert said.

According to him, it would be more expedient to finalize the Angara rocket, even if building two launch pads at the Vostochny spaceport and assembling a lunar transient module in the near-Earth orbit, instead of dropping the work implemented and starting the development of a new rocket.

In the expert’s opinion, the change of plans is related not only to the country’s difficult economic situation but also to certain strategic miscalculations in the long-term space program planning.

If Russia had had a long-term national strategy, such unexpected decisions could not have been made, the expert noted.

"We spoke some time ago for adopting a national cosmonautics development program. As there is no such a strategy, I completely don’t understand the expediency of a super-heavy rocket. In my view, the decision has been made in favor of sectoral rather than national interests," the expert said.


More:
http://tass.com/science/949367

Another "expert" with an "opinion", that is clearly agenda-based....

Opinions are like arseholes... everyone has their own, but most of them stink...

the strategy was to build new angara rocket to replace all others ,and to build 3 new pads in vostochny for angara.
because of protracted development technologicaly angara is not new , too few launches and many postponements- its expencive , and everyone runs from it like stink cheese now , even military (plesetsk launch pad not used)...
i said strategy is doomed to fail, and got blasted here , but i was right ,and you all were wrong.

Rmf wrote:the strategy was to build new angara rocket to replace all others ,and to build 3 new pads in vostochny for angara.
because of protracted development technologicaly angara is not new , too few launches and many postponements- its expencive , and everyone runs from it like stink cheese now , even military (plesetsk launch pad not used)...
i said strategy is doomed to fail, and got blasted here , but i was right ,and you all were wrong.

Of course.

Information content 0, emotion content 100 percent.

Rmf wrote:......

(random inaccurate BS)
..........


i said strategy is doomed to fail, and got blasted here , but i was right ,and you all were wrong.

Rmf wrote:the strategy was to build new angara rocket to replace all others ,and to build 3 new pads in vostochny for angara.
because of protracted development technologicaly angara is not new , too few launches and many postponements- its expencive , and everyone runs from it like stink cheese now , even military (plesetsk launch pad not used)...
i said strategy is doomed to fail, and got blasted here , but i was right ,and you all were wrong.

So few words, so many errors...  

FFS Angara isn't up to speed because they are still finishing off the new serial production facilities and certifying the people and process....  What do you not understand????

build new angara rocket to replace all others...  A1 replaced small Ukropi-launchers and A5 replaced hypergolic Proton.  A3 was proposed to replace Zenit, but Russia barely uses Zenit-class and there is no driver to develop the A3.  In any case, no Angara config was ever going to replace Soyuz.

too few launches, many postponements...  Like just about ANY other launcher development program at a similar stage....

its expencive...  Given that its not in service and that the only flow examples have been hand-built protypes, we don't have any real pricing data, so your claim is just unsubstantiated hot air. In any case, Khrunichev have stated A5 will be cheaper than Proton...

even military pad not in use...  Russian military is clealry waiting for availability of serial units, but you spin this as "not used"...

doomed to fail...  Why?  What is fucking wrong with a modular all-Kerolox launcher that will rid Russia of any reliance on Ukropi small LVs, and with a 25T payload on its heavy option?????  

but i was right ,and you all were wrong...  Oh dear, the Messiah complex in one so ignorant. Man, you are so deep in denial....

not gloating , i am sad thing turned out this way but i had vision it would end like this ,and they will get worse since less and less money will be available to finish anything ,less launches -more problems -with new rockets -more people involved- its a mess and chaos.

angara isnt scaled properly and engines run at limits, cant be manrated , and have high cost. higher pressure gives higher thrust but it has diminishing returns and after certain point its a pain ,and actually lowers thrust to weight ratio of engines...

angara light should have been smaller , scaled like soyuz -5 is supposed to be. 2,8-9-17-22 tons. and used nk-331 from antares (usa already payed for its development) with 20% more thrust then nk-33 from N-1`,and yet 95% common parts.
heavy urm would have 4 nk-331 engines, instead of rd-171 , and total 20 booster engines for A5 heavy version at launch giving 80% thrust of old N1. with hydrogen upper stages it would be no problem to get 90t or more to orbit.
universal rocket engine ,simple ,light , cheap ./ instead of universal rocket module. then split into 2 - light and heavy version modules .... like tactical fighter f-15/ f-16.

why is then old soyuz pad built on vostochny anyway if they built so great soyuz-5 ? more money blown!?
you can twist this anyway and ill defeat you easy.

US has 12 launch system in use/ under dev bz wiki

I am honestly beginning to think that someone really did steal Rmf's phone, seriously just look at this:

with hydrogen upper stages it would be no problem to get 90t or more to orbit.
universal rocket engine ,simple ,light , cheap ./ instead of universal rocket module. then split into 2 - light and heavy version modules .... like tactical fighter f-15/ f-16.

why is then old soyuz pad built on vostochny anyway if they built so great soyuz-5 ? more money blown!?
you can twist this anyway and ill defeat you easy.

What adult talks like this?

Other possibility would be that with recent news he saw a tiny glimmer of hope for his beloved Kazakhstan but when he realized that even with Sunkar in the mix good old Kazaks will still be getting just table scraps (and pay for them to boot) he went into total meltdown.