Russian Gun Artillery Thread

Their lack if air support is going to hurt the Orcs over the coming winter, thermal instruments will spot groups of humans far more easily than during the summer period because fires for warmth are going to need chimneys unless the Orcs want to freeze to death.

Searching around a few hot spots is going to be easier that looking everywhere for targets.

Drones will become more important now too...

They will have fires, their breath, any heat in their weapons.

https://www.agmglobalvision.com/how-to-shield-yourself-from-thermal-imaging

if they have specialized uniforms then that will help for sure.

And I'm supposed to have access to classified information about the latest Russian weapons developed?

"Its classified bro." Great deflection. The B-21 and NGAD are already in service but its classified. Tyler rogoway says so. Why is your source more credible than topwar.ro or zvezda TV who say no thing about a mythical 80km msta projectile?

His weapon is called the 2A65...

Yeah and its L46 length, with muzzle velocity of 830m/s. Krab, AS-90, Pzh2000 have longer guns with better accuracy and higher muzzle velocity.

Of the 760 Msta that Russia has, 260 are 2S19 M1 and 210 are 2S19 M2, and that was in 2020 two years later the number of 2S19 M2 is even greater.

At least 30-40 were already lost in ukraine. Ok number, but hugely insufficient against ukraine, let alone NATO. Ukraine already has 100 superior howitzers plus at least 80 pions, 30 himars and 80 olkhas.

60 2S7Ms is more than a few dozen, certainly more than all the Caesar/Pzh2000 Ukraine has received.

Its exactly 5 dozen. Pathetic number for the "best artillery army in the world".  Ukraine had 99 before the war. 250 2S7s were built in total. and ukraine 40% of them. This means number of unupgraded 2S7s in russian service is also extremely low.

And why do you complain about LDPR having only D-20/30?
They are a militia!

They are officially part of the russian army, since donetsk and lugansk are integral parts of russia. Theyve performed much better than the russian army too.

What if the conflict escalates and NATO goes to war with Russia?
How will koalitsiya or malva help russia to destroy nato ships?

NATO will NEVER go to war with russia. If you think NATO was itching to press the red button before the tsunami dildo came along, you need some psychiatric help. And if it does, the james bond villain underwater dildo won't stop russian cities from being incinerated. A-235, S-500 and A-135 will.

zirkon, kalibr, kinzhal, kh-32 will destroy nato ships.

At least 30-40 were already lost in ukraine. Ok number, but hugely insufficient against ukraine, let alone NATO. Ukraine already has 100 superior howitzers plus at least 80 pions, 30 himars and 80 olkhas.

A war against NATO would not be fought with conventional artillery.
Russia is not the Soviet Union so the idea you can have mass produced conventional forces with gobs of artillery is pointless.
Modern Russia has huge disparity in population versus NATO today so the obvious answer must be high quality weapons in smaller amounts.

Russia's artillery was like the last thing in the list of things they were thinking of upgrading and it clearly has been lower priority. But modern systems like Tornado-S and Coalition were developed and passed trials. It is only a matter of ordering them and producing them.

The fact is thanks to systems like the Iskander and Kalibr the Russians can outmatch whichever weapons the Ukrainians have and they can hit their whole strategic depth while the opposite is not true. And for countering Ukrainian artillery they have the loitering munitions like Lancet. So things are not as dire as you put them out to be.

What? On the nose! Somebody tell these Russians they can't do that, their guns are too inaccurate - they should be clipping some random village 5 miles ahead!

"Its classified bro." Great deflection. The B-21 and NGAD are already in service but its classified. Tyler rogoway says so. Why is your source more credible than topwar.ro or zvezda TV who say no thing about a mythical 80km msta projectile?

Actually the LMUR missile and the Geran drone and the Kh-69 and a few other systems were top secret before this war started too... even the Buk 3 was a bit secret before this conflict but is being used too...

Yeah and its L46 length, with muzzle velocity of 830m/s. Krab, AS-90, Pzh2000 have longer guns with better accuracy and higher muzzle velocity.

Except the 2A65 is a 152mm calibre gun the Russians have ammo for and spare parts and support for as well as C4ISTAR equipment to support an operate in combat... they also have 203mm guns with better range and accuracy and much heavier warheads than that foriegn muck you are currently masturbating too and they are actually hitting military targets with these guns, while these amazing western pieces of shit are being used to score war crimes killing children and women with in civilian markets.

At least 30-40 were already lost in ukraine

Stuff gets lost in wars... both sides fight.

Ok number, but hugely insufficient against ukraine, let alone NATO.

They don't need any against HATO... the instant this conflict becomes about HATO the number of artillery pieces becomes irrelevant and the speed at which you can nuke Europe becomes a thing and the Orcs have no nuke artillery shells and the Russians probably have shit loads... threats appearing in HATO territory looking to cross into Russian territory will get glassed... no fucking around there.

Ukraine already has 100 superior howitzers plus at least 80 pions, 30 himars and 80 olkhas.

Their numbers are going down quite rapidly due to poor support and being targeted.

Its exactly 5 dozen. Pathetic number for the "best artillery army in the world". Ukraine had 99 before the war. 250 2S7s were built in total. and ukraine 40% of them. This means number of unupgraded 2S7s in russian service is also extremely low.

They seem to be getting the job done.

They are officially part of the russian army, since donetsk and lugansk are integral parts of russia.

They became part of the Russian Army weeks ago... don't be a dick.

By that standard why is the Ukraine armed forces so backward and so screwed up... they have been HATOS special friend for 8 years, they should have Death Stars and Carrier groups and the air power of gods at their beck and call.

Theyve performed much better than the russian army too.

So they performed better than the Russian Army with D-20s and D-30s so all that bullshit about Euro super artillery if bullshit?

Make your mind up.

NATO will NEVER go to war with russia.

Never say never... they seem dumb enough to paint themselves into that sort of corner... when things start getting bad and their currency collapses and all they have is a big powerful military they can no longer afford to fund will they be happy fading away to a shadow like Spain and France and the UK... or will they try to fight their way out... maybe another world war might solve their problems again?

I would normally say they are not that dumb but Sakashvili and Bush and Clinton and Trump and many other dumb fuckers from the western spooge machine have proved us wrong before.

Russia's artillery was like the last thing in the list of things they were thinking of upgrading and it clearly has been lower priority. But modern systems like Tornado-S and Coalition were developed and passed trials. It is only a matter of ordering them and producing them.

Not really a case of priority... no one can upgrade everything at once without testing and prototypes and testing again... since 2008 the Russian military has been transformed from not that great to pretty damn impressive... and they did it probably spending less in the last 14 years than the US spent in any two of those 14 years on defence... and that is not counting what the rest of HATO spent in that period... that is bloody astounding.

Russian artillery is getting upgrades, improvements are being developed and put into service... as already mentioned the Grad vehicle that can turn up at a location, receive target data... orient itself and launch an attack on that target and move off in minutes started entering service in 2011.

Other vehicles are getting the same upgrades... not to your expectations... well sounds like your expectations are the problem here.

Except NATO lacks the capability to recover their losses

Launching half the drones Russia launched at Kiev at HATO and they would probably use up all their remaining SAMs and AAMs in a week and Russia could just walk into HATO territory... except I doubt they want to deal with the cost of rebuilding HATO... even without a shot fired the EU needs trillions invested to make it work properly and if the EU don't want to spend that why would Russia pick up the tab?

Russia's artillery was like the last thing in the list of things they were thinking of upgrading and it clearly has been lower priority.

The army that claims to have the "best artillery in world" didn't care about upgrading its artillery. Thats a new one. The country that supposedly puts army as first priority, still uses 70% unupgraded soviet era guns. If the army is not the priority, what is? Clearly not the navy, since it takes them 5+ years to mass produce a simple marine diesel. The air force? Maybe, but mostly Su-30s there too(very few Su-35s and Su-57s, and no mass usage of glide bombs, targeting pods, large drones, etc, because its "not a priority". That just leaves the nuclear strategic missile forces and AD,ad the nuclear underwater dildo. Thank god at least AD, yars, and avangard is very useful against NATO, unlike that dildo.

The army that claims to have the "best artillery in world" didn't care about upgrading its artillery. Thats a new one.

It is not top priority because it is already very effective... there are plenty of upgrade programmes in effect for all of their artillery from guns of all calibres right through to rockets of all calibres.

The withdawal of the INF treaty now means they can have all sorts of medium and intermediate range missiles now too so those mini cheap air launched cruise missiles they were developing... Kh-50 or some such thing, with a flight range of 1,500km could now be mounted in trucks too so they can be very widely deployed and used in enormous numbers... thanks America for untying Russian hands.

The country that supposedly puts army as first priority, still uses 70% unupgraded soviet era guns.

Numbers you pull straight from your arse belong there.

There was very little wrong with Soviet era guns, all they need are new rounds and proper C4ISTAR to find targets in good time.

Being reliable and being able to fire all day are vastly more important than having GPS guided shells at the moment, but they also have those too.

If the army is not the priority, what is?

The Army is a priority, but they are in the process of getting much of the new stuff that was in development these last few years...

Clearly not the navy, since it takes them 5+ years to mass produce a simple marine diesel.

There isn't a country on the planet that can reverse engineer a ships propulsion system and put it into mass production faster than that.

The Chinese diesels they bought and had problems with prove that to be true... and the Chinese know how to make stuff.

The air force? Maybe, but mostly Su-30s there too(very few Su-35s and Su-57s, and no mass usage of glide bombs, targeting pods, large drones, etc, because its "not a priority".

They are using about 10% of their Army... do you think their entire Navy and Air Force are engaged?

The fact that you don't know what the Air Force has or has not used makes these comments unhelpful... even the US wont use their big drones in theatre because they are just too vulnerable but you think Russia should waste new large drones now?

That just leaves the nuclear strategic missile forces and AD,ad the nuclear underwater dildo.

They have always been a priority and are doing their job just fine.

Thank god at least AD, yars, and avangard is very useful against NATO, unlike that dildo.

Your problem is that you clearly use your dildo too much and it is no longer exciting... or maybe yours is too big and it hurts you so you don't like it.

Don't like talking about that... then don't keep talking about your dildo.

Yes, building 70 ships of all kinds, including 12 nuclear submarines, is nothing

There you go Arrow.... letting facts get in the way of a good rant...

The soviet  ammom stockpiles are drying up

https://t.me/Viktor_Murakhovskiy/398

Shell hunger

Miscalculations of the General Staff in the rate of accumulation of shells (900 shots) led in 1914 to an acute shortage of shells for the army in the field. Urgent measures were required to save the army from complete shell starvation. The military industry was not ready to solve this problem.

Although the measures taken made it possible already in the first half of 1915 to improve the supply of artillery shells to the front, the "shell hunger" was fully eliminated only in 1916.

Modern industry of ammunition and special chemicals.
Engaged in the development and production of ammunition (AP) and cartridges of all types, gunpowder, rocket fuel, chemical warfare agents and special chemicals. As of 2022, the ammunition and special chemicals industry united 91 enterprises.

The Russian army in the early 1990s inherited from the Soviet army about 15 million tons of missiles and ammunition stored in 180 arsenals, bases and warehouses.

As of January 1, 2013, the presence of ammunition in the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation is 3.7 million tons, of which 1.1 million tons are unusable. That is, suitable - 2.6 million tons.

In 2020, almost 300 thousand ammunition was repaired at the arsenals on its own, and more than 20 thousand shells for multiple launch rocket systems were collected.

The real need for ammunition is MILLIONS of pieces per year.

Russia will have to rely on newly made artillery shells, which are produced in far larger numbers than in the US, but they still far from meet short term needs of the russian army.

https://t.me/vysokygovorit/10421

To understand the scale (https://t.me/Viktor_Murakhovskiy/398) - a million tons of ammunition in terms of 152 mm shots (projectile + charge) is about 16 million shots. Approximately the same amount - in terms of 122-mm Grad MLRS rockets. Peak consumption in summer battles is up to 60 thousand rounds per day. Averaged, taking into account periods of calm - 10 thousand shots per day.

Is it a lot or a little? The consumption during the war, according to Western estimates, reaches 7 million pieces of shells with a caliber of more than 100 mm over the past 10 months. Annual production is unknown, rough estimate (for one example of a Western estimate see here (https://jamestown.org/program/russia-struggles-to-maintain-munition-stocks-part-two/)) in 2021 it could reach for 152mm rounds are about 300 thousand per year, and this is a lot - about 10 times more than the annual production of 155mm rounds in the United States before the start of the conflict. But not enough given the expense. Is a multiple increase possible, taking into account the transfer of the defense industry to an enhanced regime? Yes.

And by an order of magnitude or more, in order to ensure the consumption of 300 thousand shells in less than two weeks?

This requires a general mobilization of the economy and more than one year of preparatory work with a fundamental restructuring of the entire political and economic system of the country, the likelihood of which everyone is free to assess for himself.

Exactly the same problem exists in the West - and to a greater extent, given that today no full-flow ammunition production is deployed in any of the NATO countries, and such a deployment is still only planned and calculated in the United States. However, the potential output there could be much higher, given the capabilities of US partners and allies outside NATO. At the same time, its full use is possible only in a direct conflict between Russia and NATO, while if it is limited to the territory of Ukraine, it will be limited by the capabilities of the Ukrainian military machine and Ukrainian infrastructure, with natural demographic and geographical limits.

The political question of ending the war hung somewhere here - at the point where the reduction in stocks on both sides, the growth of industrial capabilities, the limits of the combat capabilities of both sides due to this growth (which will be reached by them at _different_ times) and the willingness to pay for all this - in all the meanings of this word.

Once combined NATO artillery shell production picks up around late 2024, russia will have no artillery shell number advantage over ukraine. Combined with hundreds of thousands of shells sent from nonNATO states like south korea, azerbaijan, and pakistan russia will further struggle competing with ukrainian shell stockpiles. Russia will have no advantage in artillery shell number(though still a large nadvantage in number of tubes and MLRS) in late 2024. This is why its important to completely defeat ukraine before early 2024.

Russia has 3 options:

1. Produce 3-4million shells per year instead of 300000
2. Source up to 3-4 million shellsper year from china, north korea, cuba, india, iran etc
3. Be up to 23  times more accurate in terms of artillery, thus needing far less shells per ukrainian soldier

That's all a load of shit

They started this war using ammo from the 50s. Then progressed onto the 60s, and so on. It's true they spent the last 30 years destroying a lot of out of date ammo. But it's just a fraction of the total.

There were a huge amount of shells and ammo as of the start of the war and plenty of ammo factories that would have been working double or triple shifts since the start of the war. There is even an ammo plant in the Donbass that has been operating since being restored by the rebels in 2015/2016 or so.

Furthermore it's not just about the sheer quantity of ammo, but the ability to get them to the front consistently and make use of them on the front via an according amount of artillery pieces - both things the Ukraine is severely disadvantaged in.

No, there is no urgency at all. There is no Ukrainian capability that will improve relative to the Russian one by 2024. Unless the Western economies undergo economic mobilization for war and start cranking out huge quantities of ammo, hardware and so on according to their own designs and calibres, and at a huge cost to their civilian economies as well.
Which is possible, but even that won't solve the decline in quantity and quality of manpower that the Ukraine is facing. South Korea, Azerbaijan, and Pakistan by themselves are rather a joke compared to the military industrial capacity of Russia (and adding to it Belarus, North Korea, Iran - which are all able to produce Soviet-caliber compatible guns and ammo and willing to provide them to Russia)

Russia's ammo consumption is bound to drop anyway for a simple reason: they are running out of targets.

The first few months Ukraine had the largest mechanized force in the field. Now they are still the largest, but composition has shifted to a majority light infantry force of mostly inexperienced conscripts.

Less mobile, with far fewer fire support, and much less survivable. The full-strength UAF required 60k rounds/day to fell, this lesser beast would but a fraction of that.

Its actually gotten so bad that Russia even uses PGMs on what were once considered low value targets.

Unless the Western economies undergo economic mobilization for war.

The Americans plan to increase artillery ammo production to roughly 450.000 rounds a year - in 2025. 

Russia's ammo consumption is bound to drop anyway for a simple reason: they are running out of targets.

The first few months Ukraine had the largest mechanized force in the field. Now they are still the largest, but composition has shifted to a majority light infantry force of mostly inexperienced conscripts.

Less mobile, with far fewer fire support, and much less survivable. The full-strength UAF required 60k rounds/day to fell, this lesser beast would but a fraction of that.

Its actually gotten so bad that Russia even uses PGMs on what were once considered low value targets.

Source?

Unless the Western economies undergo economic mobilization for war and start cranking out huge quantities of ammo, hardware and so on according to their own designs and calibres, and at a huge cost to their civilian economies as well.

They will. Westerners hate russians so much that they would rather suffer from wage stagnation and rising living costs in the name of "protecting democracy" and killing "russian subhumans" than taking action to force governments to invest in their own countries.

At least 65% of the population of every western country, except that of Slovakia, greece and bulgaria supprts sending increased weapons shipments to ukraine

South Korea, Azerbaijan, and Pakistan by themselves are rather a joke

South korea is an industrial military powerhouse bigger than france, UK and germany combined. Its military industry is constantly expanding due to generous tech transfers, foreign investment, and foreign orders.

The resident moron thinks the inputs for artillery production can be whistled out of thin air.

limb wrote:They will. Westerners hate russians so much that they would rather suffer from wage stagnation and rising living costs in the name of "protecting democracy" and killing "russian subhumans" than taking action to force governments to invest in their own countries.

At least 65% of the population of every western country, except that of Slovakia, greece and bulgaria supprts sending increased weapons shipments to ukraine

At least 65% of the population of every western country do not give a damn about the Ukraine, once the hype and fashion train has departed for the next cause of the month; and in fact it has long left the station despite all Western establishment attempts to keep in the headlines.

It's the same virtue-signalling phenomenon that Sujoy posted a video about in the other thread. Sure in words, they may say that they support the Ukraine, but if it hits their pocket or they're asked to sacrifice something of their own then they will waste no time in protesting or making themselves scarce.

The neo-cons may well have a motive for doubling down, frightened as they are by the prospect of seeing their precious hegemony and US dollar dominance fade into history - but how will they mobilize public opinion behind them, short of moral outrage the effect of which has long worn off?
No-one in the West is going to go and die for the benefit of globalist hegemony or the US dollar. No-one in any country will go en masse and fight in some foreign war for the benefit of your elite's empire.
You need stronger reasons or a clear and present danger.

South korea is an industrial military powerhouse bigger than france, UK and germany combined. Its military industry is constantly expanding due to generous tech transfers, foreign investment, and foreign orders.

If you say so, but it's still dwarfed by Russia and the amount and variety of military industries that are available in Russia. They are also not about to commit to some Russian-Ukrainian war any more than the Europeans are, in fact a lot less - they have their own neighborhood to worry about.

Exactly. Europe just got its economy shattered and its future prospects diminished when Russia weaned the continent off her resource teat. A lesser economy like South Korea would be plunged into the toilets if Russia does the same.

Hahahaha... the Russians are running out of missiles, ammo, tanks, airplanes... come on Limb... try harder... at the rate they are losing them you should be complaining that the Orcs are running out of Poles and Americans...

As economic issues start to bite more in the west people will start to wonder why so many western resources are going to criminals in the Kiev government... but I suspect a lot of the money never even leaves the west...

Expansion of ammo production is always a good idea... fortunately Russia exports lots of ammonium nitrate as fertiliser... perhaps banning exports of fertiliser to the west will impact their arms industries as well as their food production... why should Russia care one way or the other?

I think this has happened. Export of fertilizers were suspended and reduced on March

https://seekingalpha.com/news/3812197-russia-to-temporarily-suspend-fertilizer-exports

Only last month EU was talking about lifting restrictions for the new year, but the question is if Russia will actually agree with the new deals