Russia's enemy countries

Anything to make themselves feel important and useful to someone...

Russia needs to make it perfectly clear to the west that it has zero interest in occupying the west, and if conflict comes its main goal will be the extermination of Europe, to eliminate it as a threat...

The same promise needs to be made to the US.

Perhaps research into anti matter bombs with warheads of tera tons of HE...

More important than having nukes , is to display their destructive power . To the general public . As well as politicians . When things got hot in Syria , Russian TV , showed an old photo of nuke test . What use was this ? The most important aspect on nukes , is the deterrence value . And you can not have deterrence , if you do not deter .

So an actual nuke test on TV , will do well for keeping peace . And none of this underground tests . And since we do not want to pollute the atmosphere, then a test in space . Visible from Earth . Why not hit the moon with a nuke . Visible flash . Dust cloud visible from Earth . For many years .

nomadski wrote:
More important than having nukes , is to display their destructive power . To the general public . As well as politicians . When things got hot in Syria , Russian TV , showed an old photo of nuke test  . What use was this ? The most important aspect on nukes , is the deterrence  value . And you can not have deterrence  , if you do not deter .

So an actual  nuke test on TV , will do well for keeping peace . And none of this underground tests . And since we do not want to pollute the atmosphere,  then a test in space . Visible from Earth . Why not hit the moon with a nuke . Visible  flash . Dust cloud visible from Earth  .  For many years  .

I am a new member, I cannot post external links, but there is a popular mechanics article titled "What Putin Would Nuke".

I have been wondering for a long time if pure fusion devices are possible. Antimatter is a pain since using particle accelerators to produce it is like converting lead into gold. Possible but not practical. Handling antimatter is also an epic pain.

It would be most efficient to find a way to convert every second subatomic particle in an object into anti matter so that it efficiently completely annihilates itself... a complete conversion of matter to energy.

Pure fusion is an unnecessary goal... you should be able to make a fusion weapon as big as you want but to detonate it you need a fission trigger. Being able to create a fusion only weapon is not really useful... it wont make it more powerful or simpler... a uranium or plutonium fission nuke bomb is a small compact efficient way of generating temperatures and pressures high enough for fusion.

So an actual nuke test on TV , will do well for keeping peace . And none of this underground tests . And since we do not want to pollute the atmosphere, then a test in space . Visible from Earth . Why not hit the moon with a nuke . Visible flash . Dust cloud visible from Earth . For many years .

Nuclear weapon use in space is banned, including on other planets AFAIK, and we already saw an asteroid hit Jupiter with the energy of all the nuclear weapons ever made... shoemaker levy... does not show the suffering and damage it causes to people doing their job living their lives.

but there is a popular mechanics article titled "What Putin Would Nuke".

Is that before or after the article "popular mechanics - western whore... will continue any stereotype to sell magazine subscriptions".

I think building an antimatter warhead would be a great move because a nice flashy sci-fi superweapon it will automatically strike ten times more fear into westerners even if there are only two in existence.

The other thing to do would be to make the readiness of nuclear forces obivous to everyone through drills and tests, or the poles could just take one for the planet. Ultimately though the test ban treaty prevents younger generations from realising that strategic warheads both exist and are pointed at their little flat 24/7 ready to fire.

A mine field will not kill anyone who knows not to enter but is someone ignorant of its threat walks in they will most likely fly out, That is why there are sine posts.

GarryB wrote:

I have been wondering for a long time if pure fusion devices are possible. Antimatter is a pain since using particle accelerators to produce it is like converting lead into gold. Possible but not practical. Handling antimatter is also an epic pain.

It would be most efficient to find a way to convert every second subatomic particle in an object into anti matter so that it efficiently completely annihilates itself... a complete conversion of matter to energy.

Pure fusion is an unnecessary goal... you should be able to make a fusion weapon as big as you want but to detonate it you need a fission trigger. Being able to create a fusion only weapon is not really useful... it wont make it more powerful or simpler... a uranium or plutonium fission nuke bomb is a small compact efficient way of generating temperatures and pressures high enough for fusion.

So an actual nuke test on TV , will do well for keeping peace . And none of this underground tests . And since we do not want to pollute the atmosphere, then a test in space . Visible from Earth . Why not hit the moon with a nuke . Visible flash . Dust cloud visible from Earth . For many years .

Nuclear weapon use in space is banned, including on other planets AFAIK, and we already saw an asteroid hit Jupiter with the energy of all the nuclear weapons ever made... shoemaker levy... does not show the suffering and damage it causes to people doing their job living their lives.

but there is a popular mechanics article titled "What Putin Would Nuke".

Is that before or after the article "popular mechanics - western whore... will continue any stereotype to sell magazine subscriptions".

No seriously read the article, it writes about a Russian first strike that Putin can walk away from with little more than a bruise. United States fully understands Putin has dominance right now. Despite the trash talking the reality is Putin has a gun to our head. All of the defense establishment means this when they call Russia an existential threat. The western elite is fully aware of destruction that could ensue. There is no way an attack on Russia would happen, and even if we fought regionally, it would be deconflicted. We are aware of the rules of the new game. Hybrid is the only war that can happen for now, until circumstances change. Then again that's how it has been since end of ww2.

No bioweapons will be used, calm down, Russia just setup vaccination labs in Nicaragua last week. We want to be friends with Russia, our whole elite wants it, we are undergoing a shift. We do not pretend to be victims, it is well known what was going on but its all winding down despite tough talking. Russia is too powerful for us to do anything to it. The sanctions were coordinated with Putin. Obama's clown sanctions intended to hurt them but it helped them, now Trump and Putin coordinate it all, we are helping the Russian economy to grow. Do you think an enemy would do this? We offer them a way out of Chinese or EU slavehood. In addition maybe some elements supported bolsheviks, but we landed troops to support whites of the Tsar in Russia in 1918. That is history so you can look it up. Politics is not so black and white there are different interest but the one that is dominant now is good relations with Russia, we do it in an unconventional way but essentially we are destroying the competitors and Russia is incubating its potential as a result. Russia helped us in civil war, this is not forgotten either. Simply some clowns have been making things up, and making moves for the detriment of Russia and USA. We want to give back Russian sphere of influence but they genuinely do not want it, and if they do it will be possible after orangutan wins term 2, until then we foot the bill for the eastern european bums. Also we will recognize Crimea. We know who is our friend, and Putin thus far has been only friendly towards us. He has his gun to the heads of the outdated neocons who are on life support. Calm down, cooler heads are prevailing. Bolton and all aggressors will be gone soon. It is just a game. The elites of the Russian Security Council know this, they had talks with our elites in New York City, Sergei Ivanov, Alexander Bortnikov, Lavrov comes frequently. It is a process is all, this is just happening. Siemens and euros left Russian market, but American CEO's where in Russia to meet with Putin. Russia has the best potential for investment worldwide. Its not lost on the likes of people in our business world. Sanctions are a joke, we jump started the Russian industry. Your welcome comrade. The cold war show is just the worlds greatest show between the true powers in the world, Russia and USA. We like this free marketing and Russia does too they have many orders for their equipment. Just business as usual, we already did this show before. It had good ratings.

The yanks are not Russia worst enemy . The humans are other humans worst enemy . Given the chance every nation will attack and dominate another . Nukes take away this chance . They make war redundant . I agree with previous post, about sign posting for mine field . There should be sign post for nukes . And even if it is now illegal to do some tests . When things get hot , both sides will break the law and do tests .

But since we live in computer age and virtual reality , then Russian CGI , animations can be put out there as educational material . Showing a scenarios and human sufferings . If there are anybody left alive to suffer . Like Iranians made propaganda animations many times about hitting ships etc . Put on RT .

Despite the trash talking the reality is Putin has a gun to our head.

Of course... Putin has a gun to the wests head.... all this demonising of Russia and Putin, overthrowing governments in Ukraine and trying to in Syria and using money and soft power to influence people in eastern europe and the baltic states and georgia and encouraging them and whipping them up in an anti Russian fervour... it was all Putins fault.... it was all Russian aggression.

The west is innocent... a victim of those evil evil Ruskies...

All of the defense establishment means this when they call Russia an existential threat.

Of course... when they say Russia is worse than ISIS, they mean it in a nice friendly way... a cuddle you and kiss you on the cheek way...

When they fund men in Syria who post footage of them cutting the heads off captured 14 year old boys, or putting women from captured areas into big metal cages and pouring petrol on them and burning them to death because they refused to be sex slaves of their more retarded fighters... like Bubba the stupid... what they are really doing is helping Russia as a friend and an ally...

It does seem strange that the US refused to accept white helmet refugees, but when you see them diligently sweeping away the ashes of those burnt 15 year old girls or putting that little boys head with its horrified expression in a nice little bag to throw on the rubbish like an empty coke can, how can they disrespect such brave and heroic men... such allies...

Edit: I am sure Americas allies from Kosovo would take those white helmets, if only to tell them how much money they just blew... those girls had hearts and livers and eye balls and other organs they could sell for good money, and that little boy was the same... they just threw away hundreds of thousands of dollars... and they would not need to waste money on anaesthetics or pain killers, just anti rejection drugs and keep the parts clean till they can be delivered... of course it would have meant they would have suffered even more but that was the point wasn't it?

Hybrid is the only war that can happen for now, until circumstances change.

So continued sabotage and sanctions and cyber interference... all in an attempt to isolate and punish... awesome.

Conversion of regular matter into anti-matter is not possible. Anti-matter needs to form the energy debris that can be achieved in particle accelerator collisions. There is no "reaction" that converts electrons into anti-electrons and quarks into anti-quarks. Particle accelerators basically create the energy soup that existed at the earliest stages of the Big Bang before particles emerged.

Then something simpler... a beam that will make nuclear warheads explode prematurely... for instance put it into a satellite and point it at enemy nukes in silos or submarines or conventional bombs in air bases and on aircraft in flight and make them explode...

I can't find anything in American history books that makes the Tsar America's enemy.

Actually I remember reading somewhere that the Tsar actually sent his fleet to deter the French and British at one point in the "revolution". Don't hear much about that though.

I have read that during the Crimean war between the Russians and the UK the Americans were volunteering to send riflemen to help the Russians against the British... they were understandably anti colonial... the problem was they eventually changed sides and are now the dominant colonial power...

We want to be friends with Russia, our whole elite wants it, we are undergoing a shift.

What evidence is there of this?

Neither the democrats or republicans seem to want to cut the defence budget and the defence budget needs Russia to justify its scale and scope.

The sanctions were coordinated with Putin.

Ahhh bullshit... if there was any actual communication it would have been exposed already and claimed to be collusion... which is bloody hilarious because collusion is not illegal and if it was then Israel would be the first place you should be looking for that sort of shit... and China second.

Obama's clown sanctions intended to hurt them but it helped them, now Trump and Putin coordinate it all, we are helping the Russian economy to grow.

Again... bullshit.

The Russian economy is growing despite US sanctions, not because of them.

Do you think an enemy would do this?

Impose sanctions with the intent to damage the Russian economic and relations internationally... yes.

We offer them a way out of Chinese or EU slavehood.

Hahahaha.... just do as we say, when we say it, even if it is against your interests and we will free you and you will be a slave to no one... except us.

China has never tried to sanction Russia or impose their will or ideology on Russia... they have passed on US sanctions because their trade with the US was bigger and more valuable than their trade at the time with Russia, but that probably wont last as trade rapidly grows between the two countries... and the EU is just doing what you tell them so they can get fucked too.

In addition maybe some elements supported bolsheviks, but we landed troops to support whites of the Tsar in Russia in 1918. That is history so you can look it up.

Have you even read up on that yourself?

The troops were sent to ensure US interests regarding their assets and interests in the country. The specific orders to the man in charge was to be impartial, and to their disgust he was so he did not interfere with the fighting and he did not help the whites against the reds... imagine that... an honourable officer who did not pick a side and artificially alter the situation in favour of the western preferred solution...

It was one of the few times the US forces in a foreign country could be respected for doing the right thing.

...but the one that is dominant now is good relations with Russia, we do it in an unconventional way but essentially we are destroying the competitors and Russia is incubating its potential as a result.

I don't see why they would see what you have done and continue to do is anything but the actions of an enemy.

You are trying to destroy competitors... China and Russia... and the EU by the look of it.

We want to give back Russian sphere of influence but they genuinely do not want it,

Yeah, overthrowing the government in Kiev in 2014 and moving troops into the Baltic states and Poland and Ukraine and Georgia is just screaming to Russia... here is your back yard... come out and play... but they wont play... weird...  NOT  

and if they do it will be possible after orangutan wins term 2, until then we foot the bill for the eastern european bums.

Oh, they are in love... you wont be able to offload them to Russia again... they have tasted US dollars... Roubles just wont do it for them now...

Also we will recognize Crimea.

He might test the water, but when the neocon US media goes ballistic at handing Putin the Crimea, he will retract it the next day and say he misspoke... or demand Russia give Kosovo to Albania and South Ossetia and Abkhazia to Georgia... which simply is not going to happen.

Why should Russia care what the US thinks about the Crimea?

We know who is our friend, and Putin thus far has been only friendly towards us.

Well half true... he has only been trying to be friendly, but you clearly haven't noticed yet... as a country...

He has his gun to the heads of the outdated neocons who are on life support.

No, that gun will pretty much kill you all... not just the neocons or democrats or republicans or the salvation army... in fact ultimately all of us, but why would you start caring about that now.

Calm down, cooler heads are prevailing. Bolton and all aggressors will be gone soon. It is just a game.

Yeah, I really don't think you are going to get any trust for a very long time. The orange one will never be trusted to stick to a deal again... there is no point in signing treaties with him because the next president will likely not accept them anyway... let alone he might change his mind the following week.

The elites of the Russian Security Council know this, they had talks with our elites in New York City, Sergei Ivanov, Alexander Bortnikov, Lavrov comes frequently. It is a process is all, this is just happening. Siemens and euros left Russian market, but American CEO's where in Russia to meet with Putin.

US sanctions and the US forcing the EU to impose sanctions on Russia has been damaging.... I suspect the partner they choose for their new high speed train programmes will be Chinese rather than German, and I suspect they will actually be better because of that.

I think even if you are right and this is all a game to separate Russia from the EU so they can go American... I really think it has actually made the Russians look to Asia and in particular China and what China is doing around the world, because they could do it too.

Russia has the best potential for investment worldwide. Its not lost on the likes of people in our business world. Sanctions are a joke, we jump started the Russian industry. Your welcome comrade. The cold war show is just the worlds greatest show between the true powers in the world, Russia and USA. We like this free marketing and Russia does too they have many orders for their equipment. Just business as usual, we already did this show before. It had good ratings.

Yeah, reminds be of an episode of Titus, by the US comedian Christopher Titus, where he finally make a success of himself.... he came from a pretty broken white trash family, and his father said you are welcome... you succeeded because of the man you became because of how I brought you up.

His father was played brilliantly by Stacey Keach... if you find some episodes I encourage you to watch it...

But back to topic... the US interference in Russia in the 1990s where they basically syphoned most of the wealth and value from the Russian economy while not really helping very much at all... Bill Browder style... you know... there was aide money to scrap nuclear submarines but no money to help build schools or hospitals or to help the people... democracy got a dirty name... now the west has a dirty name there too because these sanctions were not to make Russia stronger, that was a totally unintended byproduct, it was to stop Russia being competitive and to force it to do as it was told, which would equate to them being the resource warehouse for a revitalised American growth period, where they could make lots more money and use up the largest country on the planet and destroy it as a rival in the process.

The yanks are not Russia worst enemy . The humans are other humans worst enemy . Given the chance every nation will attack and dominate another .

The Americans and Israelis would like you to believe that.... it is human nature... democracy and capitalism are natural... it is normal for the rich to have everything and for the poor to struggle to survive... but human nature is caring for the weak, it is acting in a group to support and protect and provide for each other...

I wish what you say about human nature true . Otherwise we are all doomed . Maybe at one time humans were more humane.  But as civilization progressed , wars became more  devastating . Every generation that passes then becomes less humane.  I am not sure about exact mechanism  of this . But children become hardened . More cruel . More anti - social . We are trading our humanity for progress . Human nature is also a cultural product . Other primates are like this also . If baby chimp is separated from parent , then it looses ability to collect food .

We have changed human environment rapidly during past . From hunter gatherers to citizens of large cities . I don't think we can adapt to new artificial environment . We exist in unnatural and distressed state . So if we could create ideal environment for humans . Then they have a chance to act humanely.  It is not that they will not do any wrong . They will not have the chance to do any wrong . And perhaps this culture of violence will weaken and disappear.

So environment impacts culture . And culture impacts environment . A vicious circle . We are told , we will not return to paradise . But we can try. Environment is the greatest determinant of behaviour.

You're too pessimistic, kvs.

In every generation there are people who're saying the world (at least as they know it) is going to end and they complain that the morals are becomming corrupted, the youth is foul and uncultured, art is degenerating and so on so forth.

In 1980s the entire genre of cyberpunk was developed, devoted to an idea that soon computers will eat us. Reality turned out to be not so bad after al.

America is like Carthage, at the gates of Rome. Carthage did not finish Rome, because to the financial experts and businessmen of the Punic city, Rome had already been defeated. It was inconceivable that Rome had anything to hope for after it had been laid to waste.

The war of the gods and demons seemed already to have ended; the gods were dead. The eagles were lost; the legions were broken; nothing remained in Rome but honor and the cold courage of despair.One thing still threatened Carthage: Carthage itself. There remained the inner working of an element strong in all successful commercial states, and the presence of a spirit that we know. There was still the solid sense and shrewdness of the men who manage big enterprises; there was still the advice of the best financial experts; there was still business government; there was still the broad and sane outlook of practical men of affairs, and in these things could the Romans hope. As the war trailed on to what seemed its tragic end, there grew gradually a faint and strange possibility that even now they might not hope in vain. The plain businessmen of Carthage, thinking as such men do of living and dying races, saw clearly that Rome was not only dying but dead. The war was over; it was obviously hopeless for the Italian city to resist any longer and inconceivable that anybody should resist when it was hopeless. Under these circumstances, another set of broad, sound business principles had to be considered. Wars were waged with money, and so cost money; perhaps they felt in their hearts, as do so many of their kind, that after all war must be a little wicked because it costs money. The time had now come for peace, and still more for economy. The messages sent by Hannibal periodically asking for reinforcements were a ridiculous anachronism; there were much more important things to attend to now. It might be true that some consul or other had made a last dash to the Metaurus, had killed Hannibal’s brother and flung his head, with Latin fury, into Hannibal’s camp. Mad actions of that sort showed how utterly hopeless the Latins felt about their cause. But even excitable Latins could not be so mad to cling to a lost cause forever. So argued the best financial experts and tossed aside more and more letters, full of rather queer alarmist reports. So argued and acted the great Carthaginian Empire. That meaningless prejudice, the curse of commercial states, that stupidity is somehow practical and that genius is somehow futile, led them to starve and abandon that great artist in the school of arms, whom the gods had given them in vain

The Punic power fell because there is in this materialism a mad indifference to real thought. By disbelieving in the soul, it comes to disbelieving in the mind. Being too practical to be moral, it denies what every practical soldier calls the moral of an army. It fancies that money will fight when men will no longer fight. So it was with the Punic merchant princes. Their religion was a religion of despair, even when their practical fortunes were hopeful. How could they understand that the Romans could hope even when their fortunes were hopeless? Their religion was a religion of force and fear; how could they understand that men can still despise fear even when they submit to force? Their philosophy of the world had weariness in its very heart; above all they were weary of warfare; how should they understand those who still wage war even when they are weary of it? In a word, how should they understand the mind of man, who had so long bowed before mindless things, money and brute force and gods who had the hearts of beasts? They awoke suddenly to the news that the embers they had disdained too much even to tread out were flames again; that Hasdrubal was defeated, that Hannibal was outnumbered, that Scipio had carried the war into Spain; that he had carried it into Africa. Before the gates of the golden city Hannibal fought his last fight for it and lost, and Carthage fell as nothing has fallen since Satan. The name of the New City remains only as a name. There is no stone of it left on the sand. Another war was indeed waged before the final destruction:but the destruction was final. Only men digging in its deep foundation centuries after found a heap of hundreds of little skeletons,the holy relics of that religion. For Carthage fell because she was faithful to her own philosophy and had carried to its logical conclusion her vision of the universe. Moloch had eaten his children.

America is along the same path, the experts and the advisors see no problem. They are too practical to be moral. They cannot see the rising storm in the distance. The insouciance of their behavior is ingrained in the minds of the oppressed, and they will come with the fury that Rome came for Carthage. Deleta est Carthago. Carthage must be destroyed. I feel we are exiting an era, of thessalocracy, of Atlanticist universal commercialism, of mercantile practicality, of neoliberal post modernism, and there will be some death pangs, but after they are over, I believe a golden era will be established, the merge between technology, and people building ideology as opposed to nation building ideology will reign over the world, not in tyranny, but in collective acceptance. It basically means that we will see the last war of the world island. From there, the historic messianic engine of the world island, in the form of Russia, is holding a torch of sovereignty. What is occurring today is beyond just simple mercantile competition, or jostling for financial rankings. We speak of the vanquishing of the Atlanticist Carthage, and the death of the mercantile global commercial system, and a transition to the worldview of the world island, of sovereign development, of equilibrium of supply and demand, of healthy human relations, and healthy human civilization. Of holistic, spartan, ascetic values. Being dumb because its a trend is coming to an end, in its place will come naturally a fourth political way, which Russia develops today and is more valuable than any nominal gdp, quantitative easing, or stock markets. The fourth political way holds more value than all of those things combined because it is substantial and above all it is human. Watch how they develop it in Syria and Venezuela, people building is a monumental task that no other nation can do, to lead a people into sovereign development, based on truth and justice, call it utopic, ideal, messianic, but such is the nature of the Russian soul. Immaterial, transcendental, immortal, which is totally incompatible with rational enlightenment based, dying, post modern Atlanticism.

The greatest threat to Russia is Islamic fundamentalism. The reason we are in Syria is because Assad is the only boot that can keep them under heel. Getting rid of Saddam and Qaddafi were both huge mistakes. It is a mistake the French are correcting by installing Haftar but one the Americans still haven't learned in Iraq which is what allowed ISIS to be created in the first place.

Vladimir79 wrote:The greatest threat to Russia is Islamic fundamentalism. The reason we are in Syria is because Assad is the only boot that can keep them under heel.  Getting rid of Saddam and Qaddafi were both huge mistakes.  It is a mistake the French are correcting by installing Haftar but one the Americans still haven't learned in Iraq which is what allowed ISIS to be created in the first place.  

US knows all they need to know, and in the same way getting rid of Saddam and Qadaffi or creating ISIS were no mistakes in their view of things, at all. Islamic fundamentalism as political tool has been taken to their actual scale by them, very willingly and very effectively destroying their Middle East rivals and as you say spreading into Russia with one single goal, to finish it as a viable country. As to Assad, no "boots" needed to keep anyone oppressed more than in any other place in the world that is organized under the violence monopoly of the state, which is a universal principle of authority for every single nation. As far as the West and their regional puppets are not pumping trillions to artificially create these jihadist armies of destruction, Islamic societies would find their balance and concentrate in what is convenient for them, not in killing each other. France BTW is learning zero and in any case what they learn is of no relevance, still messing around in Syria as if they were a genuine geopolitical actor and not a glorified pet of the Anglozionism that will behave as instructed for every single relevant issue.

LMFS wrote:
US knows all they need to know, and in the same way getting rid of Saddam and Qadaffi or creating ISIS were no mistakes in their view of things, at all. Islamic fundamentalism as political tool has been taken to their actual scale by them, very willingly and very effectively destroying their Middle East rivals and as you say spreading into Russia with one single goal, to finish it as a viable country. As to Assad, no "boots" needed to keep anyone oppressed more than in any other place in the world that is organized under the violence monopoly of the state, which is a universal principle of authority for every single nation. As far as the West and their regional puppets are not pumping trillions to artificially create these jihadist armies of destruction, Islamic societies would find their balance and concentrate in what is convenient for them, not in killing each other. France BTW is learning zero and in any case what they learn is of no relevance, still messing around in Syria as if they were a genuine geopolitical actor and not a glorified pet of the Anglozionism that will behave as instructed for every single relevant issue.

What ME rival did they destroy using fundamentalists as the excuse? They attacked Saddam for fake WMDs. Iran is still there. They never advocated getting rid of Assad because he supports Islamists. Islamic societies have not once proven they can find their balance, the only success story was Turkey and that was only ever attained by constant military coups that replaced the leaders stepping out of line. Now that it is gone they are collapsing as all of them do without boot and heel dictators.

As far as France, they have learned that trying to let a bunch of Islamists tribes rule themselves in a democracy is a fantasy. They are installing Haftar who will bring the country in line.

Vladimir79 wrote:What ME rival did they destroy using fundamentalists as the excuse?

I did not say using them as an excuse but directly as a tool. But they have also destroyed Syria's East under the excuse of fighting ISIS with their own military so it is indeed an useful resource that can be used both ways.

Islamic societies have not once proven they can find their balance, the only success story was Turkey and that was only ever attained by constant military coups that replaced the leaders stepping out of line.  Now that it is gone they are collapsing as all of them do without boot and heel dictators.

Now you sound decidedly wrong and worryingly close to dismissing Islam altogether as capable of no good, very much like the West sees Russia BTW. Would like you to tell me what country operates outside of the parameters of hierarchy and use of state violence as considered necessary. Not Russia, not the West, simply no one. Ways of disguising this reality evolve, the core remains the same since 10,000 years at least, it is about time to notice it.

As far as France, they have learned that trying to let a bunch of Islamists tribes rule themselves in a democracy is a fantasy.

Democracy you say?? Like a massively unpopular president giving orders to beat the shit out of protesters in the streets for months already while media stays silent? Don't make me laugh please. That notion is pure fake liberal BS, there is no single democracy in the West (or probably in the World if you ask me) and the concept itself is a huge scam to start with. All civilizations and countries have their authorities and codes and elites, no need to decry Arabs or any other culture and much less when the citizen representation in our societies is such an abject failure. We were fat cattle boasting some kind of superiority when we were well fed, but now we are not that fat and healthy either...

They are installing Haftar who will bring the country in line.

Once the West destroyed the projects of Qadaffi that were not of their liking and sent the country 50 years back, and in order to stop the influx of migrants when people are starting to get serious at home. Quite convenient to complain about some societies being brutal and backward after having returned them to the animal fight for survival through the complete destruction of their state and welfare structure.

LMFS wrote:
I did not say using them as an excuse but directly as a tool. But they have also destroyed Syria's East under the excuse of fighting ISIS with their own military so it is indeed an useful resource that can be used both ways.

If the US wants to take something they will use a far less legitimate excuse than destroying terrorists... like fake WMDs.

Now you sound decidedly wrong and worryingly close to dismissing Islam altogether as capable of no good, very much like the West sees Russia BTW. Would like you to tell me what country operates outside of the parameters of hierarchy and use of state violence as considered necessary. Not Russia, not the West, simply no one. Ways of disguising this reality evolve, the core remains the same since 10,000 years at least, it is about time to notice it.

If Islamic society was so balanced then why are they the constant cause of the next sectarian conflict? If you want to count the number of conflicts constantly ongoing amongst themselves and the outside world you wouldn't have enough fingers and toes to count it. The only time they are at peace is at the barrel of a gun. Do you think Chechnya is calm because they have suddenly decided to live in harmony with the rest of the their neighbours? No, they had to be pacified at the barrel of my gun and put under the boot of a strongman who can keep them in line. It is the same story a hundred times over again but not one Islamic country that has achieved self determination.

Democracy you say?? Like a massively unpopular president giving orders to beat the shit out of protesters in the streets for months already while media stays silent? Don't make me laugh please. That notion is pure fake liberal BS, there is no single democracy in the West (or probably in the World if you ask me) and the concept itself is a huge scam to start with. All civilizations and countries have their authorities and codes and elites, no need to decry Arabs or any other culture and much less when the citizen representation in our societies is such an abject failure. We were fat cattle boasting some kind of superiority when we were well fed, but now we are not that fat and healthy either...

While you sit their criticizing French police for bruising a couple of brats, thousands of Muslims have died because they can't get along with themselves much less the rest of the world.

Once the West destroyed the projects of Qadaffi that were not of their liking and sent the country 50 years back, and in order to stop the influx of migrants when people are starting to get serious at home. Quite convenient to complain about some societies being brutal and backward after having returned them to the animal fight for survival through the complete destruction of their state and welfare structure.

Getting rid of Qaddafi was a mistake because it created what happens when you try to let Islam self determine itself. Now they are bringing in Haftar who will have to do similar things to what Qaddafi had to do.

It is the same story a hundred times over again but not one Islamic country that has achieved self determination.

Well as long as western countries keep involving in internal affairs of those countries, they will never be united btw themselves.

And most of the time religion has nothing to do with those internal conflicts. It's more about a group that wants to stay at power and another one that wants its place and both use stupid people's religion to achieve that.

Now they are bringing in Haftar who will have to do similar things to what Qaddafi had to do.

Good luck. A guy from the desert to control big cities where people used to fight Gaddafi isn't going to happen easily. They all have access to internet and know what's going on. Gaddafi came in power when people didn't go to school and were villagers that only cared about their villages. Arabs are tired of those dictators supported by westerners/russians and chinese.

Isos wrote:

Well as long as western countries keep involving in internal affairs of those countries, they will never be united btw themselves.

And most of the time religion has nothing to do with those internal conflicts. It's more about a group that wants to stay at power and another one that wants its place and both use stupid people's religion to achieve that.

We have seen what happens when they are left to their own devices, you get the Taliban and Daesh.

Good luck. A guy from the desert to control big cities where people used to fight Gaddafi isn't going to happen easily. They all have access to internet and know what's going on. Gaddafi came in power when people didn't go to school and were villagers that only cared about their villages. Arabs are tired of those dictators supported by westerners/russians and chinese.

The population of Libya is actually quite small. With a 100,000 strong army funded by UAE and trained by France it doesn't look like anything is going to stop it. All they need is control of the coastal cities and the few oasis towns in the interior.

We have seen what happens when they are left to their own devices, you get the Taliban and Daesh.

Because the west and russians destroyed the governement and the army previously. Afghanistan and Irak would be still lead by Sadam and some communist dictator with people having quite confortable life. That's the only way for arabs to live quitely.