Pantsir-S1 News Thread:

GarryB wrote:Very clever configuration with those truck mounted systems... you don't need guns on every vehicle, and you don't need search radar on every vehicle... a battery of 6-8 vehicles could have 2-3 vehicles with search radar and guns, while the remaining 4-5 vehicles can have extra missiles.

that would give the chance to have a search radar searching but another one or two search radar just listening, with these vehicles switching roles and then moving to keep a good view of the local air space while remaining safe from SEAD aircraft.

the other vehicles will be handed targets which they can engage on their own in fairly large numbers due to the extra missiles they carry.

Assuming 8 vehicles to a battery with three having search radars being command vehicles and 5 being missile turrets that means 6 x 30mm twin barrel cannon, plus (24 x 5) + (12 x 3) missiles = 156 ready to fire missiles... which is plenty.

GarryB wrote:

the other question is... at 40km what is SMs guidance method... is it still command guided out to 40km? Or have they adapted an ARH MMW radar seeker or IIR seeker or both combined from the HERMES missile system.. in which case they would become more expensive but also more useful... the export tracking radar for Pantsir can handle 3 target tracking channels with the fourth target being engaged optically. The SM clearly has an optical turret and tracking radar but with terminal guidance that means it could target up to 4 targets at a time but the high speed missiles would rapidly get close enough to get a lock releasing guidance channels for more missiles to be launched before the first missiles have impacted the target.

Personally I think the Pantsirs will all operate together as SHORADs even though the newer SMs can reach 40km I suspect that will be to make the SHORAD more effective by being able to shoot down some launch platforms as well as incoming munitions... easier to shoot down one Apache at 25km than let the Apache fire off all its 16 missiles and then close to try to get you with its gun... 1 target vs 17.

GarryB wrote:

Pantsir-SM is no more SHORAD, but medium range SAM with similar range as Buk-M1. It doesn't need search radar on every vehicle like SHORAD need, because of shorter range. I think Pantsir-SM will cover a niche between S-350 and Pantsir-S1 in VKO and in PVO VVS.

For that to be the case there would need to be another vehicle for the Pantsir-SM with a search radar to get target information for the SM to find its targets.


I suppose in an IAD that they might get target information from the network, but the question is... does this suggest a new structure... I mean BUK has some pretty substantial radar vehicles that operate with it to collect data.... is the Pantsir-S with the search radar intended to be a combined search system and SHORAD that can be attached to any SAM battery to scan for targets and also offer close in defence of enemy munitions?

Personally I think Pantsir-SM is the same as the 40km range S-350 small missile and would be redundant... except for the greater numbers the SM is carried in.

the other question is... at 40km what is SMs guidance method... is it still command guided out to 40km? Or have they adapted an ARH MMW radar seeker or IIR seeker or both combined from the HERMES missile system.. in which case they would become more expensive but also more useful... the export tracking radar for Pantsir can handle 3 target tracking channels with the fourth target being engaged optically. The SM clearly has an optical turret and tracking radar but with terminal guidance that means it could target up to 4 targets at a time but the high speed missiles would rapidly get close enough to get a lock releasing guidance channels for more missiles to be launched before the first missiles have impacted the target.

Personally I think the Pantsirs will all operate together as SHORADs even though the newer SMs can reach 40km I suspect that will be to make the SHORAD more effective by being able to shoot down some launch platforms as well as incoming munitions... easier to shoot down one Apache at 25km than let the Apache fire off all its 16 missiles and then close to try to get you with its gun... 1 target vs 17.

GarryB wrote:

against stealth targets, because in those cases ARH homing head will difficultly see target and lock on it,

Quite true.... you can get the targets precise position via another method then command guidance is just a case of 4D maths... getting longitude, latitude, and altitude to match exactly at one time would be a hit.

Of course the unification of Hermes and Pantsir-S and Pantsir-SM would be interesting in that you could have a few missiles with GLONASS guidance or IIR guidance or MMW... or indeed all three with the capability of adding laser target marking to the mix as well as much cheaper command guidance missiles and you get all the benefits and can manage the costs as required.

Pantsir-S and Pantsir-SM could completely replace SHORAD and an SA-6 level missile combination... in fact it could replace the whole Shilka, OSA, KUB system.

Very exciting as its main missile is very cheap and simple and could be made in enormous numbers.

George1 wrote:Arctic version of Pantsir

Zivo wrote:

George1 wrote:Arctic version of Pantsir

I like the camo.

TheArmenian wrote:Enjoy this presentation:

collegeboy16 wrote:

TheArmenian wrote:Enjoy this presentation:

hmm, at 1:30 the you guys will see the system mounted on a tracked chassis- Kurganets?

magnumcromagnon wrote:

collegeboy16 wrote:

TheArmenian wrote:Enjoy this presentation:

hmm, at 1:30 the you guys will see the system mounted on a tracked chassis- Kurganets?

The Kurganets version in the video looks to be the medium range Pantsir-SM with 45 km range missiles, while the Kamaz Typhoon (which may very well be air-droppable) is the SHORAD Pantsir-S1.

Viktor wrote:WoW

It seems that Morocco ordered 50 pancir-S1 systems !!!!

LINK

Werewolf wrote:Ohh ffs not again!

Russia should sanction Morocco from military hardware those bastards already have cheated with T-80, Kontakt-5 ERA, MSTA-S and few other hardware and shipped it to US and UK.

Viktor wrote:

Werewolf wrote:Ohh ffs not again!

Russia should sanction Morocco from military hardware those bastards already have cheated with T-80, Kontakt-5 ERA, MSTA-S and few other hardware and shipped it to US and UK.

There are few levels of Russian military hardware

- intended for Russian army and its closest alies
- export version for Russian allies
- export version for Russian partner states that are stable
- export version for states that are unstable and change of government is likely (meaning Russian hardware could find itself in a wrong hands)

I think Morocco falls in the last category

Werewolf wrote:The last group should be the group of sanctioned puppet nations, period. There money isn't worth anything the damage they have caused.

Werewolf wrote:

Ohh ffs not again!

Russia should sanction Morocco from military hardware those bastards already have cheated with T-80, Kontakt-5 ERA, MSTA-S and few other hardware and shipped it to US and UK.