Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1

Chinese Boomerang?

LOL, they use small cockpit instead of optical devices

Asf wrote:

Chinese Boomerang?

LOL, they use small cockpit instead of optical devices

Looks like it's still in testing phase.

What happened to the development of the NBC/CBRN protection system for the Kurganet & Boomerang?

Frankly the NBC/CBRN protection system on the BMP-2 was quite obsolete.

RTN wrote:What happened to the development of the NBC/CBRN protection system for the Kurganet & Boomerang?

Frankly the NBC/CBRN protection system on the BMP-2 was quite obsolete.

Guaranteed it is finished. That being said, have fun finding information on NBC systems!

Most sources report that it is an overpressure system, so it is anything out obsolete. - Many US vehicles aren't equipped with said systems, and I don't see you complaining....

Mike E wrote:Guaranteed it is finished.

Meaning you work for the manufacturers?

Mike E wrote:That being said, have fun finding information on NBC systems!

Which explains your below comment

Most sources report that it is an overpressure system, so it is anything out obsolete. -

Mike E wrote:Many US vehicles aren't equipped with said systems, and I don't see you complaining....

I doubt you know the difference between a screwdriver and a hammer.

RTN wrote:

Mike E wrote:Guaranteed it is finished.

Meaning you work for the manufacturers?

Mike E wrote:That being said, have fun finding information on NBC systems!

Which explains your below comment

Most sources report that it is an overpressure system, so it is anything out obsolete. -

Mike E wrote:Many US vehicles aren't equipped with said systems, and I don't see you complaining....

I doubt you know the difference between a screwdriver and a hammer.

No, but the NBC system isn't all that complicated and should be finished by now. - Not like you work for them either....

How? You clearly can't continue your pointless argument there!

I doubt you know the difference between a troll and idiot... Oh wait...

If you really want to try and add something to any thread, at least do it with valid points/information.

I doubt you know the difference between a screwdriver and a hammer.

A screwdriver is made with orange juice and Vodka...

Russian Kurganets and Boomerang and indeed Typhoon and Armata are all fully amphibious... with Armata being able to snorkel, while the lighter vehicles will float.

As such they are already air tight to a high degree and their decontamination equipment and systems are second to none...

GarryB wrote:Russian Kurganets and Boomerang and indeed Typhoon and Armata are all fully amphibious... with Armata being able to snorkel, while the lighter vehicles will float.

As such they are already air tight to a high degree and their decontamination equipment and systems are second to none...

In US armored vehicles NBC protection is provided by an over pressure clean-air conditioning air system, a radiological warning system, and a chemical agent detector. I suspect the same is true for Russian armored vehicles as well.

However, NBC system existing in the BMP2 , BMP3 is manual. In the event of nuclear explosion or chemical attack, the crew is entirely dependent on the external communication sources for the activation of system. The communication systems are also vulnerable during the panic hours. Therefore, these sub-systems provide only some degree of protection to the crew of the BMP-3 against the damaging effects of blast and radiation from a nuclear weapon.

Also, the BMPs nuclear detection and measuring instruments are a generation behind Western analogues.

RTN wrote:

However, NBC system existing in the BMP2 , BMP3 is manual. 

That's not true:

"The (NBC) system has an automatic switching with manual backup switch. ("Система имеет автоматическое включение с ручным дублированием")
From here (russian).


It was a vehicle for nuclear war after all

 Therefore, these sub-systems provide only some degree of protection to the crew of the BMP-3 against the damaging effects of blast and radiation from a nuclear weapon.

Yeah, yeah, right, eastern communist barbarians didn't think about lives of their cannon fodder. Stalin, komissars, zagradotrad, shtrafcompanies, GULAG, KGB.

Asf wrote:

RTN wrote:

However, NBC system existing in the BMP2 , BMP3 is manual. 

That's not true:

"The (NBC) system has an automatic switching with manual backup switch. ("Система имеет автоматическое включение с ручным дублированием")
From here (russian).


It was a vehicle for nuclear war after all

 Therefore, these sub-systems provide only some degree of protection to the crew of the BMP-3 against the damaging effects of blast and radiation from a nuclear weapon.

Yeah, yeah, right, eastern communist barbarians didn't think about lives of their cannon fodder. Stalin, komissars, zagradotrad, shtrafcompanies, GULAG, KGB.

Plus, Soviet tanks that were hitting parades at Red Square supposedly were made of carton boxes which were driven by the force of one cyclist... Yea we heard all of that...

Good god RTN, where do you get your information?

The Discovery Channel?

All through the 60s and 70s the lower echelon Soviet troops were transported by BTR-60/-70 and later BTR-80s at a time when western troops of equivalent status moved around in trucks... which do you think was better prepared for WMDs?

The BMPs on the other hand had filtration systems to allow the troops on board to operate without Chem and Bio suits on. When passing through contaminated areas they just stayed closed up and when they got through they could be mass decontaminated by truck mounted jet engine blowing decontamination solutions over the entire vehicle as they drove past.

NATO was no where near as prepared for NBC warfare as the Soviets were.

GarryB wrote:

All through the 60s and 70s the lower echelon Soviet troops were transported by BTR-60/-70 and later BTR-80s at a time when western troops of equivalent status moved around in trucks... which do you think was better prepared for WMDs?

The BMPs on the other hand had filtration systems to allow the troops on board to operate without Chem and Bio suits on. When passing through contaminated areas they just stayed closed up and when they got through they could be mass decontaminated by truck mounted jet engine blowing decontamination solutions over the entire vehicle as they drove past.

NATO was no where near as prepared for NBC warfare as the Soviets were.

Garry, we are not talking about the 60s and the 70s here. We are talking about how things are today.

Agreed, the USSR was able to spend billions of $$ on Defense and had a state of the art Military Industrial Complex. But the arms industry in Russia suffered after the collapse of the USSR.

Collective protection in IFVs may combine over pressure systems with ventilated facepieces and environmental control units. This combination of over pressure and ventilated facepiece protection is referred to as "hybrid" collective protection. Over pressure systems reduce the probability of the interior of the tank becoming contaminated in the open mode. Collective protection is instrumental in permitting Mission Oriented Protective Posture (MOPP) reduction resulting in enhanced mission sustainment. Additionally, micro-climate cooling of the individual crew members further reduces the risk of heat stress casualties.

NBC overpressure systems in US Tanks/IFVs affords all these & then some.

Ergo, the NBC overpressure system in US Tanks/IFVs is a generation ahead of any such systems in Russia, EU or China.

Ergo

Other from fancy acronyms I've only managed to understand that US vehicles has better NBC protection because of air-conditioner as russian IFVs and tanks do have air filters and crew is supplied with individual protective masks and protection suits if needed. A doubtful statement indeed. 
That's the reason of all those patriotic posts? I can ensure you boomerang do have compartment air cooling system if you truly thinks it would matter in case of a nuclear holocaust, but it lacks cup holders so it's without a doubt worse that any US second-hand car. U-S-A! U-S-A!

Good god RTN, where do you get your information? The Discovery Channel?

What do you expect from a person living in a country where even football is played by hands? Americans are bleesed with ignorance, they have their own small world unburdened by history, world-wide problems and dangers other than local street gangs. For americans the whole planet apart from Mexica and Canada is a dangerous place teeming with dictators and terrorists which they are subjected to defeat with the best weapons the mankind had ever knew because of Mom, bald eagle and apple pie.
Politics made soviet people live behind an iron curtain. Americans on the other hand made an iron curtain in their own minds themselves just because they don't need anything other than their national sport leagues, Hollywood and a house in a suburb as they believe anything they have is already the best in the world. If it were not globalist politics and transcorps most of americans would have been just a bunch of nice people living by themselves, like chinese did for centuries.

What do you expect from a person living in a country where even football is played by hands? wrote:

Hell, i almost fainted from laughing so hard.

Werewolf wrote:

Hell, i almost fainted from laughing so hard.

You *almost* fainted? I died!

NBC overpressure systems in US Tanks/IFVs affords all these & then some.

Ergo, the NBC overpressure system in US Tanks/IFVs is a generation ahead of any such systems in Russia, EU or China.

I know what you are talking about and I am saying they had all that in the 1960s.

Newer vehicles have newer systems, so if WWIII starts tomorrow the newest production T-90s will have state of the art NBC systems comparable to anything NATO has in service, but any unit drawn up from reservists that takes their equipment from storage and they find themselves in BMP2s or even BMP1s will find they have full NBC equipment too.

NBC is an area the Russians take seriously... and the west pays lip service to... internal filtering and overpressure systems and water cooled vests are 1960s technology...

Combat module of Boomerang
From left to right:
(Kornet launchers), active defence system launchers, active defence system radar, TV scope, IR scope, (2A42? with PKT), "Arena-like" thing, panoramic sight

Asf wrote:
Combat module of Boomerang
From left to right:
(Kornet launchers), active defence system launchers, active defence system radar, TV scope, IR scope, (2A42? with PKT), "Arena-like" thing

That "Arena-like" thing is Shtora-1

Комплекс оптико-электронного подавления «Штора-1» КОЭП (Elektro-optical Suppression/Jamming Complex), most probably altered to fit the size of the turret and not the rather big eyes on T-90 tanks.

RTN wrote:

GarryB wrote:Russian Kurganets and Boomerang and indeed Typhoon and Armata are all fully amphibious... with Armata being able to snorkel, while the lighter vehicles will float.

As such they are already air tight to a high degree and their decontamination equipment and systems are second to none...

In US armored vehicles NBC protection is provided by an over pressure clean-air conditioning air system, a radiological warning system, and a chemical agent detector. I suspect the same is true for Russian armored vehicles as well.

However, NBC system existing in the BMP2 , BMP3 is manual. In the event of nuclear explosion or chemical attack, the crew is entirely dependent on the external communication sources for the activation of system. The communication systems are also vulnerable during the panic hours. Therefore,  these sub-systems provide only  some degree of protection to the crew of the BMP-3 against the damaging effects of blast and radiation from a nuclear weapon.

Also, the BMPs nuclear detection and measuring instruments are a generation behind Western analogues.

WRONG. Only abarams has overpressure. Niether bradley nor stryker or any older US vehicles have overpressure. They only use 50s era uncomfortable performance degrading collective NBC system.

That "Arena-like" thing is Shtora-1

Completely forgot it's actual designation) Still it can be somekind of a newer Shtora version.

PS: This is rumored to be 'Epoha' combat module which is scheduled to enter service in 2015

Based on its armament, I would suspect this is the APC turret for Boomerang.

I suspect the IFV version will likely have a 45mm or 57mm main gun able to take out NATO IFVs and MBTs from the side and rear.

I suspect the IFV version will likely have a 45mm or 57mm main gun able to take out NATO IFVs and MBTs from the side and rear.

It has Kornets to take down MBTs

Actually this module can be upgraded then new cannons will be ready for mass production.

And I quite sure it's 'IFV' class vehicle as 'ACP' versions will have little to no armament (just like BTR-D do now) and will be used for special weapon squads transportation and everthing like that.

If we look at current APCs the standard weapon is the 30mm... ie BTR-82A.

Looking at the models and drawings shown of the new vehicle families so far they have had vehicles with 30mm cannon and also vehicles with 57mm guns.

The turrets are standard and modular so having lighter armament would make sense only if all the ammo was stored in the turret... ie having a 30mm cannon would make sense only if all the ammo was in the turret and the area under the turret could be used to increase the number of troops carried.

With the 57mm gun the bulky ammo would require the area beneath the turret to store the ammo so the troop size would be reduced.



According to this chart I would not think 4 Kornets would be sufficient for an IFV.

The current model I see of the armata hull hasa frontal overhang. This is a major design flaw that caused massive mobility problems for other vehicles who had it(i.e. the dismal failure M114). BTW will the armata have a V-hull to protect from mine blasts?

More details on


State contracts for "Armata" and "Kurganets-25"


http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1026260.html