Russia - USA Relations

well russians don't hate americans . But everytime muricans behave as if they are exceptional   . Jerks



you have not introduced yourself yet victor . Where are you from ?

Hi guys,

if the USA ever managed to install a pro US government in Russia. What wound it mean for Russia and its people?

Thanks

andrewlya wrote:Hi guys,

if the USA ever managed to install a pro US government in Russia. What wound it mean for Russia and its people?

Thanks

It already succeeded in doing this during the 1990s. The Yeltsin regime period tells you all you need to know. The
first thing Yeltsin did was to follow the shock therapy witchdoctor voodoo peddled by The Harvard Boys (including
Jeffrey Sachs). Under Yeltsin you saw the emergence of the oligarchy. Gangster oligarchs such as Khodorkovsky
and Berezovsky were basically running the show. It was somewhat like the US during the "Gilded Era" but the main
difference is that the tycoons of the US late 1800s were people who created their business empires from scratch,
while in Russia you had a bunch of Al Capone types who looted state industries and butchered all that stood in their
way. Khodorkovsky's henchmen filled a cemetery full of bodies during their takeover of Apatit (a fertilizer company).

Read "Godfather of the Kremlin" by Paul Khlebnikov. It is an excellent account of the criminal oligarchy and in particular
Boris Berezovsky and his machinations. Khlebnikov was murdered and in my view the most likely suspect was Berezovsky.

Yeltsin lost power in 1999 in a soft military coup. The NATO attack on Serbia after the 1998 financial meltdown finally
triggered blowback. Putin was basically in charge after he became Prime Minister. Yeltsin "resigned" in December of
1999 as piece of theater.

Hi guys,

if the USA ever managed to install a pro US government in Russia. What wound it mean for Russia and its people?

Thanks

The west does not see Russia as a potential partner or ally... they see it as both an enormous largely still untapped resource and a potential rival to its international power.

If it had control of the Kremlin... that is what they want... to control the governments of potential rivals because a potential rival is a potential threat, then they would quickly privatise all the assets currently in Russian government control and sell them off to the highest western bidder. the result will be that all the valuable resources of Russia would be used to profit western companies and to fuel western growth... it is a model they have used for a long time... in the immediate post WWII era you used to get really cheap crappy products made in japan. they were like the rubbish you get now from china. the thing is that japan used the income and work and went for quality and growth and strived to be the best they could be...I remember early japanese cars being rubbish... much worse than the european cars they tried to copy. Later however they worked on the designs and got better and now I would rather get a japanese car than a British one or an american one simply because it is a better product. These days however South Korea and even China are starting to give them a run for their money too.

The point is that over time the quality has improved and labour costs have gone up and western companies moved elsewhere for cheap labour so countries like Taiwan, Malaysia, Japan, and China and mexico have been exploited for their cheaper labour and that is what the west would do to Russia.

There was actually an enormous fear in the west in the early 1990s that Japan might form an alliance with Russia where they have the high tech expertise in electronics and precision tools while Russia has cheap labour, vast raw material reserves and of course air and space technology and Japan could rise again... at the start of WWII Japan had a formidable aircraft design capability, and despite much of its domestic armour and small arms design being a bit of a joke there was enormous potential there.

Of course relations did not get past the Kuril islands dispute and relations have remained pretty cool.

If the US had their men in the Kremlin they would pretty much do the same... the average Russian would suffer as health and education would be neglected, but the roads to and from the oil fields would be state of the art... just like in the 1990s with western investment in oil exploration and on not much else as it was a direct rival to western equivalents. If US stooges had gotten into power then NATO would be introducing F-35s today made of Russian Titanium and the Russian AF would be getting cheap worn out F-16s from the NATO countries buying F-35s.

I have heard a theory that the US will want to exploit Russia's natural resources if they put pro US puppet, but would it make Russians poorer?

I am looking at an example of Saudi. The US and Saudi goverment have signed an agreement that Saudi lets the US to take control of theirt oil fields in exchange that they leave their religion alone. The US having the control of the Saudi oil have not made the country poorer, the Arabs are one of the wealthiest people i nthe world. Also, if we take Norway. They have also got pro US goverment and they have also got oil, but people are rich, the country is propesperous. So why would it not be the same for Russia and Russians?

Coz RUSSIA aint anyone's Bitch. You fear amerikans really ?

max steel wrote:Coz RUSSIA aint anyone's Bitch. You fear amerikans really ?

No, I don't.
I am much more pro Russian than I am pro American. What I am asking is that if countries like Canada that is much bigger than the US, that has a lot of natural resources such oil etc and they have a pro US government and still manage to have one of the highest living standards and quality of life in the world,same with Scandinavians.

So what makes Russians so worried if pro US/EU government ever get into power there?
Russia has an immense natural potential which they need to capitalise on, if manage in the right way Russians should be one of the richest nation in the world.

Werewolf wrote:

andrewlya wrote:I have heard a theory that the US will want to exploit Russia's natural resources if they put pro US puppet, but would it make Russians poorer?

I am looking at an example of Saudi. The US and Saudi goverment have signed an agreement that Saudi lets the US to take control of theirt oil fields in exchange that they leave their religion alone. The US having the control of the Saudi oil have not made the country poorer, the Arabs are one of the wealthiest people i nthe world. Also, if we take Norway. They have also got pro US goverment and they have also got oil, but people are rich, the country is propesperous. So why would it not be the same for Russia and Russians?

Wrong, Saudi is poorer, because they do not own their own oil, US private oil companies own it.

The US has given to a minority of wahabits enermous wealth which protect their made up royality, while US provides them with all necessary stuff to keep this regime under US controll, the minority who calls themselfs now royal has no will to give up all that wealth and power just to be executed in their entire form as soon they would be overthrown. Saudi Arabia is a poor country where the money is not contributed or used for wealth of the country, but to assure the status quo. While Lybia and Iran are paying their citizens from the sold oil with a humble payment of roughly 20 USD per month, well not anymore the case in Lybia thx to US. No other country ever did that not even Russia which holds the most resources on this planet.

If you look at statistics top ten richest nations are all US puppets,regardless of the fact that the US oil companies own their natural resources the people of those countries are most well off in the world.

1. Luxembourg
2. Qatar
3. Norway
4. Kuwait
5. United Arab Emirates
6. Singapore
7. United States
8. Ireland
9. Equatorial Guinea
10. Switzerland

So,if Russia did have a pro US government maybe it would be a benefit to ordinary folk there.

King Abdullah's University of Science and Technology is the 3rd (THIRD) richest university in the world - it's has nearly 2x more money than MIT and almost 3x more than Cambridge. It's BS that Saudis aren't investing their money - they are but diversifying the economy may take several decades.

So what exactly did Libya have that other oil countries don't? In UAE native Arabs are only ca. 25% of the population and most don't even have to work because the entire country is ran by migrant labor from Asia (Indians, Pakis, Bengalis, Filipinos) and specialists from EU/USA.

andrewlya wrote:

max steel wrote:Coz RUSSIA aint anyone's Bitch. You fear amerikans really ?

No, I don't.
I am much more pro Russian than I am pro American. What I am asking is that if countries like Canada that is much bigger than the US, that has a lot of natural resources such oil etc and they have a pro US government and still manage to have one of the highest living standards and quality of life in the world,same with Scandinavians.

So what makes Russians so worried if pro US/EU government ever get into power there?
Russia has an immense natural potential which they need to capitalise on, if manage in the right way Russians should be one of the richest nation in the world.  

Canada is not seen as a potential geopolitical rival. It's just a tundra next door, a buffer zone from US standpoint.

Russians had  pro US/EU government already. The trauma of that experience will continue to shape their worldview for decades, maybe even centuries to come.

Russia has an immense natural potential which they are finally capitalising on,  and thanks to doing opposite of what US/EU want, are managing it better and better every day and if they keep up at this pace  Russia should be one of the richest nation in the world soon.

It is always more profitable to be ruler than a servant.

I checked some statistics and it turns out that:
1. Emiratis now constitute only 15% of the population. The rest are migrants from India, Banghadesh, Pakistan, Philipines etc. + specialists from western countries
2. 50% does not work. Among those who do, 90% work in public sector and only 10% work in private sector - the rest of the jobs in private sector are filled by foreigners (i.e. the remaining 85% of the population).
3. Those who don't work receive welfare benefits - up to $5,000 per month + free housing. More ambitious ones study in foreign universities (mostly in the US) for government-funded scholarships.

Werewolf wrote:

andrewlya wrote:

Werewolf wrote:

andrewlya wrote:I have heard a theory that the US will want to exploit Russia's natural resources if they put pro US puppet, but would it make Russians poorer?

I am looking at an example of Saudi. The US and Saudi goverment have signed an agreement that Saudi lets the US to take control of theirt oil fields in exchange that they leave their religion alone. The US having the control of the Saudi oil have not made the country poorer, the Arabs are one of the wealthiest people i nthe world. Also, if we take Norway. They have also got pro US goverment and they have also got oil, but people are rich, the country is propesperous. So why would it not be the same for Russia and Russians?

Wrong, Saudi is poorer, because they do not own their own oil, US private oil companies own it.

The US has given to a minority of wahabits enermous wealth which protect their made up royality, while US provides them with all necessary stuff to keep this regime under US controll, the minority who calls themselfs now royal has no will to give up all that wealth and power just to be executed in their entire form as soon they would be overthrown. Saudi Arabia is a poor country where the money is not contributed or used for wealth of the country, but to assure the status quo. While Lybia and Iran are paying their citizens from the sold oil with a humble payment of roughly 20 USD per month, well not anymore the case in Lybia thx to US. No other country ever did that not even Russia which holds the most resources on this planet.

If you look at statistics top ten richest nations are all US puppets,regardless of the fact that the US oil companies own their natural resources the people of those countries are most well off in the world.

1. Luxembourg
2. Qatar
3. Norway
4. Kuwait
5. United Arab Emirates
6. Singapore
7. United States
8. Ireland
9. Equatorial Guinea
10. Switzerland

So,if Russia did have a pro US government maybe it would be a benefit to ordinary folk there.

Statistics...never trust statistics.

Statistics are mostly pushed by agendas not reflection of reality.

Living standards in Lybia were far higher than any other country of arabic of those listed above and LIVING STANDARDS include human rights which are non existent in Qatar, Kuwait and UAE for lot of people.

Well, statistics speak for themselves when you see Arabs come over to London in the most expensive cars in the world when you go to these countries you see that majority of the Arabs are minted and the only poor people in that society are immigrants from south Asia who have come there to work..

Im not talking about Human Rights of those countries, I am talking about the quality of life there people have and the wealth generated from oil ,even though controlled by the US, is nicely spread across its people.Just recently, the new King of Saudi Arabia handed out an incredible £20.7 billion to his people as he celebrates taking the throne in oil-rich country. King Salman bin Abdulaziz Al Saud celebrated coronation with handout to all state employees - as well as pensioners and students - to receive cash.Delighted Saudis celebrated by splashing out on luxury goods and holidays. Why can't Russia do the same with their natural resources and not controlled by the US? It's controlled by Russians so why cant they be like Arabs generous to its people?

Werewolf wrote:

andrewlya wrote:I have heard a theory that the US will want to exploit Russia's natural resources if they put pro US puppet, but would it make Russians poorer?

I am looking at an example of Saudi. The US and Saudi goverment have signed an agreement that Saudi lets the US to take control of theirt oil fields in exchange that they leave their religion alone. The US having the control of the Saudi oil have not made the country poorer, the Arabs are one of the wealthiest people i nthe world. Also, if we take Norway. They have also got pro US goverment and they have also got oil, but people are rich, the country is propesperous. So why would it not be the same for Russia and Russians?

Wrong, Saudi is poorer, because they do not own their own oil, US private oil companies own it.

The US has given to a minority of wahabits enermous wealth which protect their made up royality, while US provides them with all necessary stuff to keep this regime under US controll, the minority who calls themselfs now royal has no will to give up all that wealth and power just to be executed in their entire form as soon they would be overthrown. Saudi Arabia is a poor country where the money is not contributed or used for wealth of the country, but to assure the status quo. While Lybia and Iran are paying their citizens from the sold oil with a humble payment of roughly 20 USD per month, well not anymore the case in Lybia thx to US. No other country ever did that not even Russia which holds the most resources on this planet.

I have to correct you on the ownership of Saudi oil. In the 1970s it was western oil majors that ran the shop but
they were displaced by Aramco the Saudi national oil company. But it makes no difference as far as the west is
concerned since the Saudis plow the money they make selling oil back into the west via investments. This
translates into a massive discount for oil bought from Saudi Arabia. The Saudi domestic economy has been too
small to absorb the revenue stream. But this is changing as their population explodes.

Just think about who controls the money system.

Hint, only one country can get away with just printing more and can ignore their foreign debt even though it is getting so big there isn't enough money in the world to pay it back.

Cuba could be very wealthy too and there is no practical reason why North Korea is poor and South Korea is rich... they are all Koreans after all. Equally Iran should be wealthy too.

Economic and political isolation... the most heavily used weapon of the west, the worst understood and the most insidious... don't kill them... make them poor and make them examples to the rest to make the rest toe the line...

kvs wrote:

Werewolf wrote:

andrewlya wrote:I have heard a theory that the US will want to exploit Russia's natural resources if they put pro US puppet, but would it make Russians poorer?

I am looking at an example of Saudi. The US and Saudi goverment have signed an agreement that Saudi lets the US to take control of theirt oil fields in exchange that they leave their religion alone. The US having the control of the Saudi oil have not made the country poorer, the Arabs are one of the wealthiest people i nthe world. Also, if we take Norway. They have also got pro US goverment and they have also got oil, but people are rich, the country is propesperous. So why would it not be the same for Russia and Russians?

Wrong, Saudi is poorer, because they do not own their own oil, US private oil companies own it.

The US has given to a minority of wahabits enermous wealth which protect their made up royality, while US provides them with all necessary stuff to keep this regime under US controll, the minority who calls themselfs now royal has no will to give up all that wealth and power just to be executed in their entire form as soon they would be overthrown. Saudi Arabia is a poor country where the money is not contributed or used for wealth of the country, but to assure the status quo. While Lybia and Iran are paying their citizens from the sold oil with a humble payment of roughly 20 USD per month, well not anymore the case in Lybia thx to US. No other country ever did that not even Russia which holds the most resources on this planet.

I have to correct you on the ownership of Saudi oil.  In the 1970s it was western oil majors that ran the shop but
they were displaced by Aramco the Saudi national oil company.   But it makes no difference as far as the west is
concerned since the Saudis plow the money they make selling oil back into the west via investments.   This
translates into a massive discount for oil bought from Saudi Arabia.   The Saudi domestic economy has been too
small to absorb the revenue stream.   But this is changing as their population explodes.

This is what I mean even thoughSaudis are US puppets, the living standards have not deterorated in Saudi Arabia or other Gulf Sates. So, would it a pro US goverment in Russia have such a negative impact on Russia and Russians?

The thing is that being anti American goes against Russia in my opinion, they US impose sanctions and as long as they are,Russian goverment, anti American it will criple their economy and have impact on its people i nthe long term...

Why can't Russia adopt a practical aproach like the Arabs i.e. "to plow the money they make selling oil back into the west via investments" and make its nation one of the prosperous in the world? They have the tools and material to do that, they just need to get on with it!

andrewlya wrote:..................
Why can't Russia adopt a practical aproach like the Arabs i.e. "to plow the money they make selling oil back into the west via investments" and make its nation one of the prosperous in the world? They have the tools and material to do that, they just need to get on with it!

But they are already making their nation one of the prosperous in the world lot more efficiently than before.

Why should they share their money with Americans when they can keep it all for themselves?

PapaDragon wrote:

andrewlya wrote:..................
Why can't Russia adopt a practical aproach like the Arabs i.e. "to plow the money they make selling oil back into the west via investments" and make its nation one of the prosperous in the world? They have the tools and material to do that, they just need to get on with it!

But they are already making their nation one of the prosperous in the world lot more efficiently than before.

Why should they share their money with Americans when they can keep it all for themselves?

How do they make their nation prosperous, please give me an example?
I want Russians to be prosperous more than anyone.They deserve after what they have been through with Communism and US led sanctions as of late.

sepheronx wrote:By using their brains. Like you should and read the other threads rather than going in circles and repeating yourself.

Wages are higher now than ever, efen after forex change and inflation (which FOREX makes little difference now). Self sufficiency in energy related development with growing prospects of further inhouse development of new toolings. Reduced unemployment rate (5.3% now. Much lower than most Arab states), subsidized housing programs and or free housing from Soviet era (so most have a roof over their heads). More liberty (far more, regardless what western media says. No one loses their head or arms for believing in a different religion, woman are not stoned to death. Hell, woman in Russia hold major high positions, more than nearly any other country), newer roads and infrastructure (someone posted skyscrapers forums as a source, which is a good one), subsidized education so that means russians are some of the most educated people in the world, etc.

Arab countries for the most part sucks. I have had family that worked in them for years. They look pretty and glamourus on the outside, but bad on the in. And only few people have the wealth.

So, do you think their living standards will ever match those of Canada/Scandinavia?

Also, wanted to know if Navalnyi ever get in as a president, would it be good for Russia?Or do you think that Putin/Medvedev are the best for Russia>